Allen Lowe

he had much more than some "evolving ideas." In one of the extant television interviews he makes a distinction between Marxism and Leninism - which indicates a high level of sophisticated knowledge of the Left and its factions. No casual observer would have made these distinctions, certainly not 60 years ago (are you aware of the difference? If not, that's fine, but it indicates that LHO was much more than an intellectual dilletante in these matters).

Could be, but it looks awfully small.

It’s funny, I’ve always thought that thing that you were calling a fedora on the fence is actually the end of a gun barrel. In Thompson’s book where I first saw it it looks like solid metal.

All of the above, while intelligently invented, is all supposition, and takes a whole lot of possibles and turns them into certainties, which is not evidence. And remember Gordon Arnold talked about hearing the bullet come from behind the fence, which means he wasn’t behind the picket fence when the shots rang our, at least by his own telling. I appreciate the thought that goes into all these kind of stories, but it does neither side any good; all we have to go by is the empirical evidence, the testimony, the witnessing, which says Secret Service man, no documentation of who this could’ve been, and raises suspicions about the role of such a person. And let us not forget Roy Hargreaves, the known bearer of false Secret Service credentials, who has admitted being in Dallas that day.

So I guess by your own standards this invalidates everything you’ve ever written.

One mistake, maybe, Out of thousands of pages of JFK assassination documentation. You should be so lucky to produce anything of substance.

Unique perspective? intimate friend? Four months worth, and his father knew Marina? This wreaks of lone-nut desperation. It’s really hard to argue with you guys, as I’ve said before, when the bar is set so low for the non-conspiracy side. Come on, give us something. I feel like we are reading your “research” off the back of a cereal box.

Yes nothing more than one person‘s opinion, a person who was in the CIA, recognized all the signs, who understood the routing system, and was reluctant to make that declaration. But of course you know better than him. The fact that you don’t know all that tells me a lot.

I suppose you don’t know about what CIA man Bagley said? He said Oswald, based on the evidence, was a witting asset for the CIA. You may have missed this part of the evidence. The difficulty of debate here is that some of you are really not up to speed on current developments in the case. Not that this is even current, but rather some years old.

Steve, two words: False Defector Program.

Well how else to determine it? We keep citing Lee Harvey Oswald as being associated with all these CIA types, so we assume he’s a CIA type himself. Ruth Paine associates with him, not just meets him but takes his family in, drives his wife halfway across the country, helps him get a job and walks him through life in Dallas. Be logical, what does all that mean? And thanks for the compliment.

Wrong, we have her direct ties to Lee Harvey Oswald, who we know was a CIA asset as part of a false defector program, and who came back to the USA to help destabilize the Fairplay for Cuba committee. So she had CIA ties right there and that’s not speculative. Gotcha on this one.

You need to credit a lot more than John Lennon, who was relatively late to the party when it came to New York City political awareness of the CIA. Allen Ginsberg was talking about this very early in the sixties as were the Fugs in the person of Tuli Kupferberg and the leader Ed Sanders. These guys were doing anti-nuke activities as early as 1961 and 1962. They were well head of their time.

Try telling it some time, and we’ll see.

The more I thought about this overnight the more silly it seemed. If you’re going to assassinate a president you pick a place you going to do it or want to do it. It’s not a matter of “hey here comes the motorcade let’s get in the building.” As we see with the Texas book depository it takes strategy, collusion, a means of escape, and a lot of other variables. Saying that as it wasn’t planned but rather a last-minute impulse is missing how well coordinated things clearly were, from the police to the Secret Service. Even if Oswald as depository worker was a bit of a rush job, and there’s no way of knowing this in terms of prior collusion, It just means they were working on other ways to get it done in this prime location with possibly other patsys. And there were a lot more than three people on the ground, in terms of coverage, escape, distraction behind the fence – all things that have to have been planned well in advance. I’m just amazed anyone could think otherwise. and if they had taken another route? Just like in Miami and who knows elsewhere, it would’ve been postponed and reset. But that does not mean the location was chosen randomly, only that things, for once, aligned perfectly as they had not aligned before. They were stalking JFK, and would just have gone ahead to plan C or D. Matt wants to keep denying this because otherwise it puts Mrs. Paine at the center.

We’ll hold a séance later to see if JFK agrees. As for the rest of what you say, it really doesn’t add up with any logic. A president is coming to town, they don’t say to themselves “oh there’s 40 places we can get him so what’s the rush, and we’ll figure it out at the last minute.“ This was a President of the United States. A president.

Because you don’t plan that complex a crime, with all its odd tentacles, both intelligence and non intelligence, at the last minute. The logistics, the political requirements, the need for immediate follow up and cover up, from the hospital to the autopsy. That’s common sense. You don’t leave it to chance. It’s clear that JFK was being stalked, not confronted with chance plots.

This is great work, and though I’ve known about it for a while it’s nice to see it so succinctly expressed. Over at Greg Parkers forum they’ve also done some very nice work on this.

Oh I get it he commits the crime of the Century accidentally, by convenience, by opportunity. I mean, here’s the president I might as well do it now even though I haven’t fired a rifle in years, but just be sure I order one with a huge paper trail so everybody knows it was me. One of the things that I’ve noticed happening on the Lone Nutter side is that your arguments have gotten weaker and weaker as time has passed. Everything is a coincidence, all the CIA connections, all of LHO’s intelligence associations. And of course it’s a coincidence that you’re here to keep an eye on us all.

Just to get away from the local sharks, I want to mention something, a lie that Ruth told in the documentary that is blatant and undeniable. She sells us how Oswald called her on Sunday night November 24. Guess what? He was dead by Sunday night November 24. This is a woman who is a borderline sociopath and not to be believed.

You really have no idea what I meant about the third parties, which doesn’t say much for your general reading comprehension. Jesus, learn to read. I was addressing the third parties point to people who think there wasn’t a conspiracy. OK? And you’re completely in space about what Randal said – she said she gave Mrs. Paine several options and had no idea what was going on after she told her that, but then at one point Mrs. Payne asked her to call the Texas book depository, which she wouldn’t do. This is completely opposed to the emphasis you were placing on it. Which makes me not trust much else that you’re saying.

Well you do have things backwards and upside down as usual David. As does almost everyone else here. But for you I say, if Lee Harvey Oswald did this thing by himself it makes no sense that he would go and wait for third parties to get him into the Depository. He wants to kill the president, he’s got to get a job in that building. he cannot take a chance. So then the question is who got him in there? I have no idea, but it had to be… A conspirator. So David you’ve disproved your own argument. Everybody’s been lying.

Kirk please pay attention: She was witting, because she knew she was handling Oswald. That doesn’t mean she was a conspirator in the direct sense, only that she helped move things around for those who were. You completely misunderstood what Simpich said, which does not bode well for your other arguments.

By the way, and this pretty much kills your credibility, people who think Ruth was involved don’t think she was responsible for the assassination. She was a handler. Your own lack of knowledge on the matter pretty much disqualifies you from making these kinds of bad guesses.

The problem with you sad boys is that you’re starting to believe the very people who help set up The whole post assassination disinformation. Randal and her brother are not to Be believed about anything, she changed her story about the bag, for a start. And her brother’s entire story is fictional. So if you want the truth you got to start from scratch, see what Ruth was doing and why she was doing it, and see how Oswald was manipulated by her, and many others. Good night. Just the very story of her driving Marina around the country should show you how ridiculous your position is. I don’t really care what you wrote because if you can’t read how can you write?