Allen Lowe

Sorry, but you have proved my point for me - if it had been destroyed right after the assassination, Thompson would not have seen it or written a book with it, Life Magazine would not have seen it and editorialized. There would have been nothing but silence because no one would know how important it was. To quote some writer, Case Closed.

I have to say respectfully that you are just proving my case - as I say below - if it had been initially destroyed Garrison wouldn't have gotten it, no one would have seen it. So by preserving it in any form, the supposed perpetrators of the alteration kept it alive as smoking-gun evidence.

nonsense - they have lost other films and documents - and if you answer, well, this was something that was much more graphic and valuable, well, virtually no one knew it at the time and no one could have, in the aftermath, proved it. It would have been simply forgotten. The logic of the alterationist position is beyond bizarre - given a choice between altering something that STILL convinced everyone of a conspiracy, and destroying the evidence, they would have destroyed the evidence. What a lot of alterationists don't really get is how different the world was in 1963. A lost film would simply have faded from evidence - think about something - the actual film didn't surface publicly for about 10 years, so it was essentially lost - and NO ONE complained or noticed in that time, in any way that effected public opinion. I challenge you to cite one source - ANY SOURCE - who cited the Zapruder in the period between the assassination and the reveal on Geraldo, or who said it was incriminating or urgent to release it. Really - find me one citation, one quote that really had an impact on public opinion. There is not one, because public opinion isn't effected until the film - supposedly altered - is shown on national television. Which completely proves that if the Zapruder film had disappeared no one would have made that much of its absence. It is fine if you can prove me wrong, but you have to come up with evidence.

The alteration theory to me is like McBride's theory that Mary Ferrell revealed the acoustic evidence in order to destroy the conspiracy community; if I had the Zapruder film and was worried about it I would have damaged it by "accident," like other documents and evidence has been destroyed. Release it with cloddish alterations, and in the process convince most of the world that there was a shot from the front? Great job on that one, just as the acoustic evidence completely altered the conclusion of the one government panel that ever investigated the assassination, and remains the one thing that is cited as irrefutable evidence of conspiracy. With enemies like this, who needs researchers?

His liason with the Panthers was related, AFIK, supposedly, to Yale's community efforts to mediate events at that time; it was a very dangerous time, a lot of potential violence, large demonstrations, not to mention the torture and murder of a guy named Rackley who the Panthers thought was a informant.

I was not. Wow.

Larry, not to digress here, but I have lived in New Haven CT off and on for almost 50 years, and was amazed to find out that when Kingman Brewster was the president of Yale his chief assistant was - yes, Tracy Barnes. Barnes was in the middle of the Bobby Seale trial situation, and was, interestingly enough, one of the local people most trusted in negotiations with the Black Panthers. I have always thought someone should examine his role in these events more closely, given what were undoubtedly his continued government connections and the highly politicized atmosphere into which he was thrown. I would be very surprised if he was not reporting back to the CIA/FBI et al.

Jim, I am currently about two-thirds through the book, which I find fascinating and frustrating. As you point out she accepts the body-alteration theories and the myth about the Kennedy brothers being intimately involved in the plots against Castro. IIRC she also buys into all the Marilyn Monroe b.s.; which is a pity as there is so much valuable info here - all hurt by the fact that she has literally no footnotes, so it's a bit of a struggle trying to match everything she says against the records. Still, it's a very valuable book.

I have great respect for the way you handle things - BUT LOOK AT HIS HEADLINE: "JEWISH SPY" - it is crazy that you don't see this as an anti Semitic dog whistle - WTF DOES it have to do with the fact that Efron was Jewish? Geez. you really don't get it. So please explain to me why it is OK in the title to refer to his being Jewish? Really, try and justify it.

because you cannot prove you own the information or that it is original to you unless you can produce the documents that SHOW is is original to you. Like with the fake LaFitte diary.

oh - this is one of the most viciously ANTI-SEMITIC thing I have read here. It is disgusting - the use of the terms "Jewish Spy" is a classic anti-Semitic trope - use the words, and then deny any connection - "Oh no" Matthew Koch will say, "It's not because he is Jewish but because he IS Jewish it must be connected to the Jews and Israel." HOW LONG are the moderators going to allow this filth? Matthew Koch ought to be banned, the topic ought to be banned. THEJEWS xxxxING GET BLAMED FOR EVERYTHING. This is Marjorie Taylor Green territory. MODERATORS? WHat the hell are you allowing here? A Jew opening Oswald's mail? I heard his mailmen was a Melungeon, so they must be plotters. The headline should be: "NEW THREAD PROVES GERMAN MATTHEW KOCH HATES THE JEWS AND BLAMES THEM FOR EVERYTHING." Shame on you all.

well you see I don't really care enough about this chart to use it in any form anyway. However, you did mention private documents, without citing them with proof that they are real or belong to you. Sound familiar?

edited

1) there was no Israel when the King David Hotel was bombed. So it doesn't defeat my point that the Israeli state would not perform an operation that killed Jews. 2) I did err at the number of Jews killed in the WTC, but there were plenty: https://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/archives/the-jewish-victims-of-sept-11/article_6271d354-13ab-5051-9a80-4ea156b4ad48.html

As usual you are a paragon of inaccuracy. I didn't know the guy. Simply pointing out that you have no understanding of copyright. You can't put a claim on public information.

but if the charts are altered they are no longer the same and so are no longer covered under copyright. It becomes a different document.

you have missed the point massively - first of all, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove their intent - I can't prove a negative. And the memo CLEARLY indicates that the target was crops, not people. And probably no worse than the pesticides we use here. Second of all you conveniently missed that part of my post which explained that these were not the kind of chemical agents that constitute chemical warfare. I won't argue this point any more. It's just futile.

Thank you for reprinting about 10 pages of "evidence," none of which is anywhere near proof that the Israeli's had prior knowledge of 9/11. I need to explain something to you - there were approximately 3000 Jews killed in the WTC bombing. If you know anything about Israel and the operations of its intelligence services, they would never have approved or ignored a terrorist act that resulted in such massive loss of Jewish life. And you have absolutely nothing, some possibly intriguing actions and connections, but no evidence, NO EVIDENCE, connecting these men and women to the bombing. Much less the JFK assassination.

Yes, not as coherent as blaming the Jews for 9/11 and the assassination - in case you didn't notice, these insane claims have been espoused by neo-Nazis everywhere. It is a classic anti-Semitic trope, use as a rationale to slaughter Jews for centuries. It is disgusting, and even more disgusting is your bewilderment that anyone might find it so. You have no evidence, just a supposition driven by stereotypes that we thought had been eradicated. But of course they have not - we control the media, the weather, the music business, television, film - you are in good company, so keep going.

well, you've convinced me now.

since your comments are not completely coherent, I will try to respond - first of all, Vince has made clear that he no longer agrees with Bugliosi. Or saying he "motivated those Secret Service Agents to write a book that affirmed....etc" is completely nonsensical. Should Vince have tried to stop them? If they wrote the book it was because Vince had showed what complete disinformationalists they were.

uh, no it does not; does putting pesticides (which is poisonous) on crops constitute an attack against the citizenry of the USA? The original post more than implied that they were advocating a form of chemical warfare. Look it up - this wasn't it. Any more than the pesticides would poison farm workers. Yes, there would be some residual danger - I am not advocating for this action - but it is a far cry from chemical warfare. Also - biological weapons are composed of very specific kinds of toxins - if you read the document they propose using agents "which would appear to be of natural origin." In which case, this is NOT a biological weapon. Unless you can tell me, please, what they had in mind. If not, then you have no basis for the accusation.

does anyone actually read these documents? It advocated use of chemical agents to promote "crop failures." NOT against Cuban citizenry; this was part of a general plan of sabotage against Cuban economic targets. Big difference.

well, significant article because Hall, who hinted at knowing much more than he said, told his sons there were men on he Knoll. Also, if we want to hypothesize - perhaps the gun he gave the kids was used to shoot at JFK, and then the other, that was found, was left there for evidence of that type of rifle being used. There are still some problems - bullet size - but in the scheme of things, the forensics were so cooked in this case that it probably did not matter.

this is a shocker. U of New Haven, where he has taught and which I think has all his records, is just down the road from me.