Paul Brancato

Thanks Jeff. I may have read this at one time, which is why I have the impression I stated. It’s long, but I’ll browse it and familiarize myself. I have great respect for Hougan.

Steve et Al - I too would like much more about the book’s assertions, but it’s impossible to get, even in French, which I don’t read anyway. Steve - if you’ve read it and have good notes and some time would you fill us in as best you can.

Some things don’t fit. Mertz, if that is who was in Dallas and secretly flown out, wasn’t part of OAS and would not have presented a danger to DeGaulle. Am I reading that right? He therefore wouldn’t have been able to share any such story with the Canadian journalist, who would have been making it up, and he didn’t fit the physical description given by the journalist, whereas Souetre did. The idea that Souetre couldn’t have been drunk - come on. Maybe he did drink on occasion. Maybe he couldn’t hold his liquor and the girls enticed him. Maybe no one got flown out of Dallas on any official flight. Note that Lafitte has Souetre being flown out privately, and that would not necessarily have been on the FBI radar. The official obfuscation of this story is frustrating

Ok I’ll bite - list some Democratic Party good ideas with the same detail

I think JFK’s relationship to the making of Seven Days in May speaks volumes to his fears regarding the JCS. Also would add his ‘private’ communications with Krushchev, highlighted in JFK and the Unspeakable, btw the book that RFK Jr recommends.

Makes sense. Certainly true of Carto. I’ve never looked deeply at Liberty Lobby.

Surely didn’t know Prouty said that about the JCS and Jonestown. Not to derail too much, my reading of Jim Jones is that he was connected to US Intel in some way. But that’s a stretch. I don’t know what Prouty’s reasons are for asserting that Israel was somehow responsible for the high price of oil - sounds wacky - but it’s not anti-Semitic in and of itself to criticize Israel’s actions is it? Did you find any statements more directly anti-Semitic? Again, I don’t think anyone disputes that Liberty Lobby or Willa Carto were Holocaust deniers and anti-Semitic in the worst sense. The question is whether Prouty was as well.

When one googles OSARN you are led only to Le Cagoule. Is OSARN a latter day name for it?

William - and Michael - That seems like a very good summary, taking both sides into account. Stone’s take is very relevant. No one is taking Liberty Lobby’s position on the Holocaust or Jews as fact. We are all disgusted by it. But deducing that therefore Prouty doesn’t know what he’s talking about is kinda, just a little bit, like reducing RFK jr to an anti vaccine headline. Their whole exemplary careers reduced to an episode of bad judgement, or something similar. But it is fair game to wonder why Prouty was oblivious to the real Willa Carto and his agenda, or for that matter the real L Ron Hubbard. He showed very poor judgement in his later years at the very least. His ‘sins’ are way worse than RFK Jr in my opinion. Prouty’s claims about Lansdale should be proved or disproved on their own merit. Shooting the messenger isn’t the best way to dismiss someone’s arguments.

Yes you did. It’s an understatement. Senators generally in safe districts are the ones that break ranks, and it’s mostly a Democrat problem, dontcha think? I think there is political calculation going on. You mentioned Lieberman - didn’t his defection prevent Obama from a 60 vote Senate majority? We naturally assume he just acted from conscience, but I still feel the distaste from watching him speak. My gut says if he hadn’t been the one to break ranks another Senator would have come forward. He took one for the team, and I don’t mean one of the two political parties, I mean for the ruling elites, MIC, whatever one chooses to call it. I draw some conclusions from that, and from the recent Manchin Sinema debacle, which occurred at a time when Democrats were prepared, so they say, to ignore the 60 vote buzz kill in favor of 50 Senators plus the VP. Democrats tried to play tough and still got thwarted. I always wonder, when I ponder this remarkable ability Democrats have to fragment just enough, why? Who is pulling the strings. It’s a pattern with a history, so I’m not prepared to buy the more simple story that the good Democrats are being thwarted by the evil Republicans, and if only they could get power they could reverse all this. I do believe, William, that many if not most of them want to be on the right side of history and do what’s right for the people, which is why I still vote for them - usually. A few exceptions - I couldn’t vote for Mondale in 1984. He had no chance - and he was exactly the kind of Democrat I’m sick of - faux pro labor. Kinda like Biden. But I did pull the lever for Biden, and for H Clinton, warmongers both. That’s what it’s come to for me. But when RFK jr throws his hat in the ring he has my support, no matter how he is ripped to shreds, no matter how much we are led to believe he couldn’t possibly win, because he is so much better than the alternatives. Nothing will change for the better in my view, a partisan one, until progressives run and win, and the old party leaders are replaced.

I agree with Mark et al here Ben. You are flooding, and no one actually disagrees with your criticism of Biden. So why not let it rest?

Of course. But why the history lesson? Not for my benefit I hope. The only thing I will add is that the Democrats look good by comparison, and there are always a sizable handful of progressives amongst the Democrats, virtually none among the Republicans, and occasionally some good emerges. But you’re smart enough to know that it’s a drop in the bucket. You can’t seriously blame the Republicans for everything. There’s always a few Democrats that lean to the right just enough to thwart substantive change. Public option? Nope. Charter schools - yep. Reverse tax cuts for the rich? Nope. Support the Iraq War? Yep, in bunches. Hand slaps to the polluters. Aren’t you frustrated at more than just the Republicans? You describe yourself as a centrist Democrat. I’d be curious how you test on the political spectrum.

I test left libertarian pretty close to the lower left corner, and progressive left on the Pew Research test. Not surprised.

Do you really think I’m an equal opportunity Party basher? I’m far to the left of you and others here as far as I can tell. Republicans have been horrible on that and nearly every other issue. But Democrats are only marginally better. Public health in America is declining. It’s not just because our health care system is lagging other western democracies. It’s the stress, the poor diets, the lack of education, opioids, Gun deaths, auto deaths, maternity deaths, financial hardship. Reducing RFK Jr to only being anti-Vax shows you how screwed up the system actually is. Take a look at his website. Whatever one thinks of vaccines or vaccine policy, they are not the problem. We have a very vaccinated population, much more so than when we were kids, not to mention our forebears. Look at life expectancy figures in red states and districts and poor enclaves. The answer to your question about why red states fared worse with Covid is right there. Bad health is the culprit.

Let’s bring this back to RFK jr. I still have the feeling most here have formed their opinions on news coverage, not on his words or his organization’s purpose. Say it ain’t so. i don’t need lessons in the calumny of the Republican Party. Seriously. Or in how things work in Congress. When you fight for what’s right you don’t just make political calculations. long segment today on npr about our declining health outcomes and longevity. Anyone else hear it? Vaccines have been useful, but they are not the answer. My beef is that we push vaccines on a population that is suffering in so many ways which we as a nation barely address. RFK Jr sees that and talks about it as loudly as he is able, but everyone shoots him down. Please let go of the vaccine argument. He is completely right about the failure of this country to take care of its people.

For an impeachment to succeed yes, but not to make some public show.

Yes, and neither did The Devil’s Chessboard. i do wish the hardline Democrats on this thread like William and Matt would at the very least admit their frustration with that party, and with the Democratic arm of the msm.

Why didn’t Biden nominate additional justices when he had Congress? Why didn’t the democrats impeach Thomas?

I recall Biden voting for Clarence Thomas. I think one has to lower their sights to call Biden a progressive. in a race between RFK jr and Donald Trump who would win?

I guess the central question is if RFK’s political analysis is correct how do we reverse this? I agree with Ron that he is being attacked for his anti-corporate agenda. I disagree with William that having a Democrat in the WH is the only way to fight this trend. In 1964 the Republicans ran Goldwater, knowing he would lose. In the fullness of time that looks like a bold move that yielded results. Many of us agreed more with Bernie Sanders political stance, but we’re not supportive of his candidacy. Democrats need to grow some balls. We’ve been playing defense since at least 1980. It hasn’t worked. I’d rather live in an openly fascist declining empire and be part of a liberal loyal opposition than try to incrementally stem the tide by staying in power with Corporate Democrats.

Enjoyed reading your post Mark. The attacks are suspicious and pernicious too. It will be interesting to see whether his campaign can break through enough for him to have a chance to defend himself, or to outline his agenda. His best chance is to define his message using concise language and stick to it no matter how the media storm around him rages. Rather than shy away from hints of dynasty I think he should invoke his legacy as unfinished business. I agree with most here that his candidacy is a very long shot. But if he can break into the candidate debates he may do to his fellow Democrats what Trump did to the Republican presidential field.

Leslie - where does the reference to collecting N memorabilia come from?

By resume, on paper, yes I agree, And Trump on paper and by resume, not at all. Reagan similarly. If Biden would put his later apology into practice and push for an impeachment of the Supreme Court Justice he helped put on the court he would earn my respect. But in my view he’s the top of the pyramid of a corrupt and broken political system. So what makes someone qualified? Don’t you think vision is important? Courage under fire? Can’t we imagine better? On paper he’s way more qualified than a young John Kennedy. But so what?

Thanks Kirk for not giving up on this and digging further. and thanks Ron for quoting Wiesak’s book.

Interesting article you’ve written. I have had problems over the years with the concept of an abort team or teams sent to thwart the assassination. They certainly failed. How do you suppose they would have acted had they been on such an assignment? Passively viewing the events surely doesn’t qualify. i do think that a real assassination plot superimposed on a fake attempt fits the scenario rather well. In general, a fake or unsuccessful attempt later pinned on Castro would have accomplished the political goal of turning the Administration firmly towards ousting Castro. An actual kill team would accomplish a. much wider goal - getting rid of a President whose plans for peaceful coexistence abroad and civil rights at home were unacceptable.