Steve Thomas

I've been racking my brains about the lunchroom for the last couple of days ever since Jim DiEugenio brought up the question of when the story of coke first appeared. It seems to me that if you were trying to frame someone for JFK's murder, the last thing you would want to do is give him an alibi by placing him in the lunchroom within 90 seconds of the crime. And then when I read this exchange with Allen Dulles, it hit me. The effort was not to put Oswald in the lunchroom, it was to put him near the stairs. No one saw him commit the crime, (your only eyewitness failed to identify him in a lineup) or leaving the scene. No one saw him coming down the stairs, so the next best thing was to put him near them. If Oswald had been coming down the stairs... When Lumpkin and Truly went to tell Fritz at approximately 1:30 that Oswald was missing, did they tell Fritz that Truly had run into Oswald in the lunchroom? Not to my knowledge. When Johnson took Baker's affidavit, did he go to Fritz and say, "Hey Captain, you know that guy you've got in the interrogation room; well I've got an officer out here who said he ran into that guy in the lunchroom 90 seconds after the shooting? Not to my knowledge. Steve Thomas

"I stumbled on this by accident". Dude# 1 I happened to run across this by accident looking for something else, and thought I'd just pass this along. I know how hard it is to find this online anymore, so I thought I'd pass this along. I am not endorsing or recommending this work, just passing it along. And I can't say that this is the complete text. Vol 2 just seems to stop abruptly. (If nothing else, It's got some good pictures). https://the-eye.eu/public/concen.org/JFK%20Kennedy%20Assassination%20Zapruder%20Film%20Hoax%20research%20pack/ebooks/Coup%20D'Etat%20in%20America%2C%20Vol%201.pdf https://the-eye.eu/public/concen.org/JFK%20Kennedy%20Assassination%20Zapruder%20Film%20Hoax%20research%20pack/ebooks/Coup%20D'Etat%20in%20America%2C%20Vol%202.pdf Steve Thomas

Did Baker actually see Oswald in the lunch room, or just infer it? "Mr. DULLES - Could I ask one question before you ask this question, and this is a bit of a leading question, and think carefully. If Oswald had been coming down the stairs and going into the lunchroom would he have been following the course insofar as you saw a course, that he--that you saw him follow? Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. The reason I say that, this hallway to the right. Mr. BELIN - By the right you mean the hallway that goes to the-- this is-- Mr. BAKER - This is a hallway right here. Mr. BELIN - It is a hallway that has the number 27 on it? Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; from what I understand these are offices in there. Mr. DULLES - Yes. Mr. BAKER - And he had no business in there..." And Baker would know this how, exactly? Mr. BAKER - And he had no business in there., and the lunchroom would be the only place that he would be going..." Oh, that's right. I forgot. After high school graduation, things got a little hazy. Steve Thomas

Cory, Along the same lines, I once read that photos of Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro don't exist. I tried looking up his name in that list both ways, but I didn't find him. (At this point in my life, I think that's who DCM is) Dude# 1

All I can say is, give the guy a break. It was a rough night. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m1.htm Mr. BELIN - What did you do after you graduated from high school? Mr. BAKER - I think I got married. (At this point, the Chief Justice left the hearing room.) Steve Thomas

David, The best that I've been able to come up with is a combined Report filed by the Assistant Chief, Charles Batchelor and Deputy Chiefs, M.W. Stevenson and Charles Lumpkin in Box 14, Folder# 4, Item# 10 here: http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box14.htm It's kind of sad, really. So much history was lost by not getting them to fill out their own individual reports. Steve Thomas

Thanks Glenn. That's pretty neat. If you do a search on her page for the 1960's, you can see some stills from a short clip of Jack Ruby combing his hair in front of the Green Department Store in downtown Dallas. https://flashbackdallas.com/category/1960s/ She also talks about ads for Minox cameras on sale for $75.00 as early as 1960. Thanks again. Steve Thomas

Bill, How about some other double agent stuff... Question: How many other of these crop duster pilots defected to the U.S. ? If anyone has any information on other crop dusters, I would appreciate hearing about it. In the Senate Select Committee files, aka the Church Committee Boxed Files, there is a document numbered 157-10014-10120, dated 1/19/76 from Paul Wallach, entitled “Oswald in New Orleans”. On page 92 of this document, there is a memo from Dan Dwyer to The Files dated 9/23/75. In this memo, Dwyer describes looking at the Department of Justice Anti-Castro files from the late 1950’s to the early 1970’s. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462&search=157-10014-10120#relPageId=92&tab=page One of the files that Dwyer examined is dated 1/22/60, entitled Anti-Fidel Castro Activities. The summary of this file reads, “January 12, 1960, Raul Cross, pilot for Arbana Airlines. The Cuban Government was having thirty pilots trained in Mexico, (using cover that they were being trained as crop dusters). They were using instructors from Chile at $700/month.” http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1462&relPageId=96 Warren CD# 1085 is a letter from the Director of the FBI to Jay Lee Rankin dated June 11, 1964 with attached memos and reports. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11481&relPageId=3 See here for a list of various reports from Wallace Heitman: http://www.maryferrell.org/search.html?q=HEITMAN%20june%2025,%201964 One of the Reports included is a memo from Dallas SA Wallace Heitman dated April 29, 1964. This Report discusses the residents of an address in Garland, Texas and the sighting of a Rambler station wagon parked in front with a bumper sticker that says, “Kill the Kennedy Klan.” On page 6 of his memo, Heitman says this his source told him that the two unnamed subjects of the memo had been employed by him (the source) for approximately one year. He said they were Cuban citizens and who were trained as duster pilots in Mexico for the Cuban Government and later defected from the Fidel Castro Government and came to the United States. While Heitman’s memo is heavily redacted, other research has revealed the two residents of 806 E. Monica in Garland, TX were Raul Castro and Juan Quintana. Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro had revealed that Raul Castro and Juan Quintana were members of Alpha-66 and the SNFE. The two subjects were known to be violently anti-Castro and had attended the speech by Adlai Stevenson in Dallas when he got bonked on the head by a picket sign. One of the two subjects of this memo entered the U.S. illegally by swimming across the Rio Grande at Lightner’s Pump (sp?) about five miles east of Brownsville, TX. He crossed with his friend who was apprehended. Records of the INS revealed to Heitman that the subject had left Cuba in blank, 1960 and went to Mexico, which he left on December 26, 1960. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11481&relPageId=215 page 6 Wallace Heitman and W. James Woods interviewed Raoul Castro on May 14, 1964. Their Report is dated May 22, 1964. Castro told them that he had entered Aviation Cadet School in Cuba in June, 1959, where he met Juan Francisco Quintana Maya. They were sent to Mexico, where they spent seven months. They returned to Cuba in May, 1960, spent twenty days there, and were sent back to Mexico for “link training, and to finish their course in crop dusting”. ( I don't know what “link training” is). Castro told them that it was obvious that the training they were receiving was military in nature. Castro told the Agents that he owned the Rambler Station Wagon that had the bumper sticker (Kan the Kennedy Klan - which someone changed to "Kill" the Kennedy Klan - although Cast told the Agents that the bumper sticker was more benign than that). The wives of both subjects of Heitman’s memo were Mexican sisters. The INS files reveal that the subject stated that many of the students attending the two airline schools he attended were Communists and Fidel Castro supporters. He named several students (redacted) studying to be air traffic control operators were known Communists. Just some food for thought: What if Raul Castro and Juan Quintana were double agents, sent to Mexico to ostensibly to train as crop dusters and then told to defect to the U.S. and infiltrate the anti-Castro Cuban exile community? Steve Thomas

And why didn't Truly, when telling Lumpkin and Fritz that Oswald was missing, also tell them about having encountered Oswald in the second floor lunchroom only moments after the shooting? Steve Thomas

I have not nailed this down. At this point, this is just speculation, but... I figured that most of the Cuban exiles held full-time jobs. If you're going to have a picnic with families, it would probably be on a weekend. In 1976, Sylvia Odio told Gaeton Fonzi: “Also, there had been a big rally in a park on a liberation day (she didn't remember which day) and she delivered the invocation. That was covered by the newspapers and the television stations and she said the FBI later told her that it thought that Oswald could have been there mingling with the Cubans.” CE 2390 (25H370) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1141#relPageId=400&tab=page FBI Agent Wallace Heitman interview of Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino July 8, 1964 resides at 719 N. Bishop St. in Dallas and is employed at El Chico Restaurant warehouse. Pino state that he is a member of SNFE. “He said that he remembers that a general reunion of various Cuban refugees had been held several months ago at a picnic grounds near White Rock Lake, and that a woman by the name of Odio had made a short speech at the reunion.” Sylvia Odio vs. Liebeler & the La Fontaines Written by James DiEugenio Tuesday, 15 October 1996 23:18 “Gaeton Fonzi's interview with Silvia Odio for the Church Committee, reproduced here...” https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/sylvia-odio-vs-liebeler-the-la-fontaines REPRODUCED AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES RELEASED PER P. L. 102-526 (JFK ACT) 5-2-96 Notes – Silvia Odio interviewed 1/16/76 The two big holidays in Cuba are January 1 (when Castro came to power, and July 26) 25-27 July - National Rebelliousness Days http://www.whatcuba.com/cuban-festivals.html 3 Days celebrating the beginning of the Cuban Revolution when Castro led a group to attack the Moncada barracks in Santiago de Cuba, during the carnival. The attack took place on 26 July but the day before and after have also been proclaimed as Cuban festivals. The dates still coincide with carnival and festivities are seen taking place throughout the country. Sylvia wasn't living in Dallas in January, so this “liberation day” she mentions might be July 26, although I can't imagine a bunch of anti-Castro Cubans getting together to commemorate a Castro holiday. Weisberg interview of the Castorr's: W: You may not, but that's all right. What we have here are pictures collected of people we don't know too much about. These are some stills taken from the television films taken of the in White Rock Park. in the summer July 1963 I believe. ITS Mrs. C: September, I believe. Mr. W: Was that it._ W: Do you remember when that picnic was? Mrs. C: Well, it was about mid-September of '63. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2012.pdf page 1. And, I got to wondering, what a KBOX radio truck would be doing at White Rock Lake on September 7, 1963. September 08, 1963 - Page 6 Alice Daily Echo Newspaper Archives https://newspaperarchive.com/alice-daily-echo-sep-08-1963-p-6/ Bv THE ASSOCIATED PRESS “Gusts of powerful winds struck in the Dallas area Saturday as a surprise rainstorm whipped into the roof of one residence and damaged another in Mesquite, a suburb just east of Dallas. State Police said no injuries resulted. The wind blew a wooden block through the windshield of a mobile news unit of Radio KBOX of Dallas while it was near White Rock Lake inside the Dallas city limits. On Dallas' North Central Expressway, the blast blew in the side of a service station. Tarpaulins protecting building construction work in downtown Dallas were whipped to shreds. The storm occurred during unexpected rain activity in Dallas and other parts of North Central and Northeast Texas. The rest of the state was unusually hot and nearly all places were dry.” September 7, 1963 was a Saturday. The temperature was 102 degrees. Posted by Andrej Stancak in the Education Forum 02/10/17 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23465-wynne-and-vicki-southland-center-1963/ “I would like to turn the attention of Forum members to a remarkable testimony of Mr. Wynne Johnson. Wynne was 15 years old in 1963, and had a girlfriend Vicki. Vicki and Wynne liked to visit the roof of the Southland Center to view the scenery of Dallas. And so they did on September 7, 1963... Wynne and Vicki were approaching the Southland Center when a taxi cab passed and a young man, Lee Harvey Oswald, stepped out. Oswald entered the main lobby, met with Phillips and both men started to talk. Shortly, Veciana came in via a different entrance. And while the three men stood together in the lobby, Wynne and Vicki also entered a long corridor and headed towards the three men.” Bill Kelly in JFKContercoup http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2017/08/castro-and-oswald-september-7-1963.html Saturday September 7, 1963 That just happens to be the day Alpha 66 founder Antonio Veciana met with David Atlee Phillips and Lee Harvey Oswald at the Southland Center in Dallas, as well as the day Manuel Rodriguez arrived in Dallas to set up a branch of Alpha 66 and leased the safe house on Harlandale Avenue in Oak Cliff. (I believe this is wrong about Rodriguez) In a May 26, 1964 report filed by Wallace Heitman it showed the address of Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro to be 2311 Nicholson St. Appt. D in Dallas. CD 1085 page 220. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11481#relPageId=220&tab=page Rodriguez had previously been interviewed on February 10, and May 20, 1964. “Rodriguez registered as an alien of Dallas, Texas on September 6, 1963, at which time his address was reflected as 1208 Hudspeth Street. His last prior address was 5310 Columbia Street, Dallas.” https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11481#relPageId=219&tab=page Heitman had previously interviewed Orcarberro on February 10, 1964. Informant T-1 had told Heitman that Orcarberro had lived at 5310 Columbia in Dallas. According to Heitman, Rodririguez said he registered as an alien of Dallas, TX on September 6, 1963, at which time his address was reflected as 1208 Hudspeth St. His last prior address was listed as 5310 Columbia St., Dallas. According to Sylvia Odio, it was the FBI who told her that Oswald was thought to have been seen at this picnic. Steve Thomas

Thanks Gary, Guess I didn't go far enough did I? Steve Thomas

Here's a 1962 picture of Juan Manuel Salvat in an April 12, 2001 Miami New Times article by Jefferson Morley. See p. 5 of this pdf file http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/C Disk/CIA DRE Cuban Student Directorate/Item 02.pdf To me, he doesn't look like the sort of person Sylvia Odio or Mrs. Castorr describe. Steve Thomas

I happened to stumble on this by accident. It looks to be a CIA list of Cuban names sorted by patronymic name and matronymic name. Some of the names also provide a short physical description. I thought it might be helpful to researchers looking for somebody under both names. HSCA Segregated CIA Collection Box 33 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=77011&search=Pinillos#relPageId=63&tab=page Steve Thomas

Here's a video interview of Salvat. It's in Spanish. He's an older man now, but it kind of gives you an idea of what he looked like. When you go to the web page, you have to hit page 2, or the Next button to bring up the actual video. http://merrick.library.miami.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/chc5212/id/733/rec/2 Steve Thomas

David, What did you think of that second document where Salvat supposedly said that the DRE was being sponsored by the Pentagon, and not the CIA? That one kind of threw me. What about the whole Joannides thing? Steve Thomas

David, I too think the Castorr's were the friends Weisberg refers too. I need to straighten out the times. The picnic and Sylvia's visit from the three guys was September. These DRE guys were saying the "meeting" where Steig saw Oswald and Walker gave the $5 was mid-October. Did Salvat stay in Dallas that long.? Pinolloas told O'Connor that he and Siveira spoke the English at the meetings. I got the feeling that the other guy couldn't speak English. Could Salvat speak English? Have you ever seen a picture of Salvat? Mrs. Castorr talks about a heavy set guy who couldn't speak English and might have looked like Howard. I got to wondering if it was Pinollas and Salvat that came to visit Odio. Steve Thomas

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/D Disk/DRE/Item 01.pdf Ana Silveira provides a list of people in attendance at the October 13, 1963 meeting. (although this is a typewritten list, and not the original) http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files%20Original/D%20Disk/DRE/Item%2003.pdf Weisberg wants to know more about this meeting. “The man who arranged the meetings, Dean Perkins was close to my friends”. Steve Thomas

David, http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/D Disk/DRE/Item 01.pdf p. 10 of that pdf file Miami FBI Agent James O'Connor interview of Joaquin Martinez de Pinillos 12/23/63: Pinillos (age 22) stated that he, Ana Silveira, and Muel Salvat had traveled from Miami to Dallas in October, 1963..." for the purpose of holding public meetings to inform them about the DRE. "Mr. Pinollos stated that Dean Perkins, 11022 Genetta Dr. Dallas, Texas assisted the DRE in organizing the meetings and arranging the publicity attached to the meetings". Steve Thomas

David, Wallace Heitman interview of Felix Guillermo Othon Pacho Septmber8, 1964 CE 2390 (25H) 371 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1141#relPageId=401&tab=page Manuel Salvat came to Dallas from Miami in (Sept?, Oct?), 1963 to kickstart the DRE. He was accompanied by two people: Joaquin Pincillas, and a woman named Anita (LNU). Steve Thomas

David, See this thread in the Education Forum: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/8538-a-dean-perkins/ Steve Thomas

Sorry, I forgot to include the pdf. It's http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2023.pdf Steve Thomas

David, II'm afraid don't know anything about him at all. Look at p. 2 of this pdf file: There's a couple of clues you can pick up. Are Ernie Lazar's databases searchable? - or the FBI's Subject Files. I'll bet you'll find out Perkins was big in the John Birch Society. PS: Did you read up about the pillow incident on p. 9 of that file? Now that's an interesting idea. McHann knew something and it tortured him for the rest of his life. I think Weisberg has a pretty good theory on p. 29 Steve Thomas

Lance, "What is being translated as "experimental shop" would be the part of the factory where they make sure that new equipment and devices are operating properly before they are put out on the floor of the factory. So it's more like "checking" than "experimenting." " Which would have fit right into his job title of "Regulator". The lazy Oswald... hmmm. That kind of fits with the impressions his supervisors at Reilly Coffee and Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall seemed to have had of him. It sounds like the Soviets seemed to have planted him somewhere where they could keep an eye on him, but wasn't expected to really do anything. The insights your sister-in-law is able to provide are really helpful. Steve Thomas

Lance, Thank you, and your wife and sister-in-law. That translation makes a whole lot more sense. Making the parts and tools for the machines sounds about right too, because he talks about reading blueprints in his Collective. I wondered about that at the time. "Work here is given out in the form of blueprints and drawings by the foreman Zemof and Jr. foreman Lavcook..." http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/thecollective.htm Thanks again. Steve Thomas

This just keeps getting better. On May 4, 1964 in an interview in his home with SS Agent Ernest I. Aragon, Rogelio Cisneros told Aragon in Miami that he had gone to Dallas, by plane, alone to meet Sylvia Odio, whom he had never met before, in June, 1963, for the specific purpose of meeting Sylvia Odio who was supposed to introduce Cisneros to a Uruguayan named Juan Martin, who was interested in selling small arms to JURE. He wanted to buy guns, and Martin wanted to sell them. Odio was going to serve as the middleman (middlewoman?). Odio had moved to Dallas in March. Cisneros had a second purpose in going to Dallas however. When he went to Sylvia's house, he was accompanied by Jorge Rodriguz Alvaredo. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20215/215e.pdf page 183 of Heitman's report, p. 16 of the pdf file. On September 4, 1964 Jorge Rodriguez Alvareda told Wallace Heitman that Rogelio Cisneros Diaz had come to Dallas in late May, or early June, 1963 for the purpose of organizing the Dallas Branch of JURE. On May 28, 1964 a Report out of Dallas is drafted on various Cuban groups. REPORT: JUNTA REVOLUCIONARIA CUBANA; SEGUNDO FRENTE DE ESCAMBRAY (OPERATION ALPHA 66); DIRECTORIO REVOLUCIONARIO ESTUDIANTIL; MOVIMIENTO REVOLUCIONARIO 30 DE NOVIEMBRE; FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=28726#relPageId=2&tab=page Jorge Rodriguez Alvareda advised that the Dallas Chapter of JURE was established in late June and early July, 1963. Rodriguez Alvareda said that he was employed at the Curtis-Mathes plant and that he had been authorized on July 3, 1963 in a letter from Osorio Davila Santana, Secretary General of JURE in Miami to proceed with the organization of JURE unit in Dallas. Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro was also employed at the Curtis-Mathes plant. Father Walter J. McHann (Mary Ferrell's database spells it Machann) CE 2943 p. 402. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=438&tab=page Letter from James Rowley of the Secret Service to J. Lee Rankin dated May 5, 1964. McHann interviewed by SS Inspector Kelly on April 30, 1964. McHann was chaplain to the Cuban Catholic Committee of Dallas. They organized religious and social activities for the Cuban refugees to help them adjust. Did they organize the picnic? McHann said he had been introduced to John Martin aka Juan Martin; and that one night, John Martin came to Sylvia's while he was there. McHann described John Martin as a Latin, but not a Cuban. Martin had a house in Dallas, but did not live there. He lived in a different city with his family. Sylvia seemed to know John Martin quite well. Sylvia Odio moves to Dallas in March Cisneros flies from Miami to Dallas in June to set up a gun buying deal with Johnny Martin using Sylvia as the middlewoman and to organize a JURE Chapter in Dallas with Jorge Rodriguez Alvaredo as its President. Father McHann at some point is introduced to Johnny Martin at Syvlia's home. Two months later, in September, a picnic is organized at White Rock Lake. Oswald is maybe seen there, and maybe not. Did the Catholic Cuban Relief Committee, who arranged social activities for the Cubans, organize the picnic? Was Father McHann there? Was the Rodriguez who was selling tickets, Jorge Rodriguez, the President of the JURE Dallas Chapter? That same month three men come to Sylvia's door claiming to be from JURE. She thinks Oswald was one of the three. Steve Thomas