Steve Thomas
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11 minutes ago, Rob Couteau said:
I just finished reading the Riedel book and thought it was really interesting and well written. The JFK / Galbraith relationship gives you a good sense of who Kennedy really was. There's not much on the book out there other than your in-depth review, but I did find this brief interview in which Riedel is even more forthright in his praise of Kennedy. A few key quotes:
"Had that crisis not have been resolved the way it was, it would have meant the end of mankind. The risk of failure in the Cuban Missile Crisis was nuclear Armageddon. It tended to push out everything else." "It would have been worse had Kennedy not intervened. If you look at the two, you think the Cuban Missile Crisis was John F. Kennedy’s finest hour, but [considering the two crises together] makes the finest hour even more fine. That’s the real message of the book. The guy multitasked…at a level that was extraordinary." That's high praise indeed coming from an author who spent 30 years working for the CIA.
Then there's his appraisal (in this same interview, link posted below) of why Kennedy was wise to turn to Galbraith:
"What’s interesting is that in dealing with Cuba, Kennedy turned to a collection of aides, his Cabinet and senior former officials to get advice—the ExComm. The advice was very hawkish, and in the end, he rejected the advice—he did not go for a preemptive strike, but a naval quarantine, and behind the scenes he was offering Khrushchev a way out. In the China-India, crisis, he relied almost exclusively on his ambassador in India, John Kenneth Galbraith, a personal friend, a person he’d turned to for advice for years. He relied on Galbraith’s advice. I speculate in the book that I suspect by the end of October, when the Cuban Missile Crisis was fading out, Kennedy came to the conclusion that the wisdom of collective advice was not wisdom, and that he was better off relying on somebody he could trust. The two decision-making processes reflect a learning curve. If you ask a group of people for advice, you get group-think."http://deborahkalbbooks.blogspot.com/2016/01/q-with-bruce-riedel.html
Thanks again for calling our attention to this book in your review, Jim.
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4 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:
Major (!) Stavis Ellis spoke 3x about this and each time the story is different.
see my paper
Bart,
Thanks for this. Pretty impressive work you did there.
Couple of small things:
That's a pretty s***y first floor coffee area on page 42. I'd hate to have to work there.
I believe that the policeman who stopped Oswald at the front door was Erich Kaminsky.
In his after-action report, Lumpkin wrote that,
DPD Archives Box 14, Folder# 4, Item# 10, page 21 (#22 in the list of gif files)
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box14.htm
"At that time, Lumpkin entered the building and instructed that it be completely sealed off, that no one be allowed to leave or enter. Lieutenant Erich Kaminsky was placed on the inner door of the building,..."
It's an interesting study trying to determine who was the first one who ordered the building sealed. In that Report Lumpkin wrote that upon his arrival at the TSBD, "Sawyer had placed guards on the building to prevent anyone from going in or out." But, in the very next paragraph, he wrote, " "At that time, Lumpkin entered the building and instructed that it be completely sealed off, that no one be allowed to leave or enter."
Why would he need to issue those instructions if it had already been done?
The WC Commission seemed very skeptical of when Sawyer actually ordered the building to be sealed off. It sounds like he went inside and upstairs before he came back down and went back outside before he ordered the building sealed. Lumpkin wrote that when he arrived at the TSBD, he found Sawyer outside on the sidewalk.
Sawyer was an Inspector, which means that he spent his time making sure other policemen were doing their jobs right. I'm not sure how much experience he had in securing crime scenes.
Fritz and Sawyer and Lumpkin all claimed to be the one that ordered the building sealed. I've tried to picture in my mind the confusion that must have reigned in the average Joe Policeman's mind as different supervisors in different command chains were issuing different orders. "You go over there, But my boss said to go over there".
Steve Thomas
PS: Yo'ure right. Ellis didn't have much use for Baker, or McLain either for that matter. According to what he told Larry Sneed, he'd been a motorcycle cop for more than thirty years.
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13 minutes ago, Bart Kamp said:
Stavis Ellis spoke 3x about this and each time the story is different.
see my paper
Bart,
What paper is that? If it's online, could you provide me with a link?
I'd be interested in reading it.
Steve Thomas
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On 12/30/2017 at 6:30 PM, Ed LeDoux said:
When getting off bike he hears radio reports ... does Baker use radio to call dispatch and get back up officers to join, or tell dispatch where he is and what he saw, and he is going in a building after a suspected gunman...
No.
Does he complete his building survey, Yes. Then he returns to motor and relays his info about the TSBD... NO!
AND THIS SHOULD STAND OUT LIKE A turd ON A CLEAN WHITE RUG!
He supposedly ran out and went on his merry way, never sharing his bit till his affidavit with Johnson?
Great police work?? ,
Cheers, Ed
Ed,
Sergeant Stavis Ellis was in charge of the motorcyclists motorcade escort. For what it's worth, here's what he had to say about Baker on p. 151 of Larry Sneed's, Nor More Silence:
Steve Thomas
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4 hours ago, Dan Doyle said:
I believe that "strike one" against JFK happened a month earlier when his Alliance for Progress, with its revolutionary funding, was proposed.
Dan,
That's pretty good insight I think.
Steve Thomas
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How did FBI Agent James Hosty expect to communicate with Marina Oswald?
Mr. STERN. Did you take over from Agent Fain or in some other way?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I did not take over directly. When Agent Fain retired directly from the Bureau he had closed the case.(on Lee Harvey Oswald). He had a case which we call a pending inactive case on Mrs. Marina Oswald. This case I did take over. It was in what we call a pending inactive status, that is, nothing was to be done for a period of 6 months. Then at the end of the 6-month period it was then turned into a pending case and I went out and attempted to locate Mrs. Marina Oswald for the purpose of interviewing her.I might add that it is the practice of the FBI to interview immigrants from behind the Iron Curtain on a selective basis, and she was so selected to be one of these persons to be interviewed.
Mr. STERN. When was this?
Mr. HOSTY. This was March 4, 1963, when I began my inquiry as to her present whereabouts. I determined on March 4, 1963, through the Immigration and Naturalization Service records that she had moved from Fort Worth to the Dallas area. She was living on a street called Elsbeth Street in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas.On March 11, 1963, I made inquiry at this Elsbeth address,
Mr. STERN. You say that you were considering interviewing Marina Oswald?
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. Did you know that she did not speak English?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes; I knew that. In fact, I determined that when I did the neighborhood check on the 3d of March.
Mrs. Tobias (the landlady at Elsbeth) told me that she didn't speak a word of English and couldn't communicate with anybody except her husband who spoke Russian.So, Hosty was doing a neighborhood check on March 3rd, before he began his inquiry on March 4th to learn her present whereabouts and learned from INS that the Oswalds had moved to Elsbeth.
He talked to Mrs. Tobias on March 11th and found out that they had moved. Mrs. Tobias told him that Marina couldn't speak English.
What "neighborhood" was Hosty checking on March 3rd? And knowing that she didn't speak English, how did Hosty think he was going to be able to talk to her?
Mr. HOSTY. (On the) 1st of November. I worked in the Fort Worth area in the morning and on my way back from the Fort Worth area at approximately 2:30 p.m., I stopped at the residence of Mrs. Ruth Paine, 2515 West Fifth Street,
Guess who else lived in the Fort Worth area?
The White Russian Community of George DeMohrenschildt and George Bouhe and Max Clark, etc. Were they a conduit of information for James Hosty?
They had known that the Oswalds were living on Elsbeth as far back as November of 1962. George Bouhe had files on everybody.
Steve Thomas
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2 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:
It is my thinking that the JFK assassination had aspects which were coordinated between individuals in the US and individuals in the USSR and that this had to remain concealed. It is my thinking that the tracking of LHO from both sides is evidence that this is what could have taken place.
I also think Marina was, as James Hosty told me, some sort of a sleeper agent. I think she knows much more than she has ever told us...
Pamela,
I'm sort of coming around to that position too. Reading through the Soviet documents we have makes me suspicious. They are so contradictory. Mostly it was that bit in Oswald's diary when he wrote that after six weeks of being incognito, he was visited by three guys he had never seen before. That just really made me go, hmmmm...
Marina's case is kind of weird. I was reading something the other day about her marriage to her second husband, the guy named Porter. They got married only about a month after meeting. That sounded an awful lot like her marriage to Lee Harvey - or Harvey Lee., or whoever. *grin*
Steve Thomas
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1 hour ago, David Andrews said:
It has been observed that the most dangerous tendency in a biographer is to let his subject become his hero.
David,
I take it you don't agree with the last two sentences of the excerpt:
"By saving Diem from his enemies in Saigon and Washington, Lansdale had made a powerful and on balance positive impact on the course of Vietnamese history. Although he did not know it at the time, he had reached the apogee of his power and influence."
*grin*
I was surprised at the enmity between the French and the Americans.
I hadn't known that.
Steve Thomas
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This is an excerpt from, The Road Not Taken, by Max Boot. © 2018
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-innovative-cia-agent-who-brokered-a-truce-in-vietnam?ref=home
Steve Thomas
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I would like to take a look at three questions. I can't say I can answer them, but I'd like to address them.
Many people know of Bob Carroll's role in the capture of Lee Harvey Oswald at the Texas Theater, but he also had some duties prior to that.
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What were the instructions given to the Special Service Bureau Detectives who were stationed on Main St., and who briefed them. Was this Erich Kaminsky?
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Where was Bob Carroll and why does he seem to be out of position?
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Carroll's non-role as the source of the 605 Elsbeth St. address.
1) Kaminsky's Role -
Captain Perdue Lawrence testified before the Warren Commission on July 24, 1964. He was the Captain of the DPD' Traffic Division's Accident Prevention Bureau. He was being questioned about the security measures for JFK's visit. W.P. “Pat” Gannaway was the Captain of the Special Service Bureau. During his testimony, he stressed several times that his role was to keep the motorcade flowing. Actual security being provided against threats to the President would be coming from someone else.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/lawrence.htm
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you receive another set of instructions or orders after that?
Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; on the evening of November 21, this was the first time that I had attended any security meeting at all in regards to this motorcade. At approximately 5 p.m. I was told to report to the conference room on the third floor, and when I arrived at the conference room the deputy chiefs were in there, there were members of the Secret Service--Mr. Sorrels, Captain Gannaway, Captain Souter of radio patrol, and Capt. Glen King, deputy chiefs, assistant chiefs, and Chief Curry, and one gentleman, who I assume was in charge of the security for the Secret Service.Mr. GRIFFIN. Was anything said in that meeting about any special precautions that should be taken in connection with protecting the President?
Captain LAWRENCE. Yes; there was some discussion that centered more around the security down at the Trade Mart than any other place and Captain Gannaway was in charge of the security in that area, and then Chief Stevenson, I believe, was there, and they mentioned that they would have detectives stationed along the route--along the motorcade route, especially in the downtown area.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what were they to be looking for?
Captain LAWRENCE. They were taking care of security, all right, but they did not go into any discussion in my presence. I assume that this had all been, discussed earlier, in fact, when I was called up there, these people were already meeting.“I assume that some instructions have been given to some members of the CID, the criminal investigation division, and to the men from the special service bureau, and the men specifically assigned to security duties instead of traffic duties. It would be my assumption that this was a part of the assignments given.”
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190029/m1/1/
This memo is also in the DPD Archives JFK Collection
On December 11, 1963, Lieutenant Erich Kaminsky wrote a memo to Captain Gannaway of the Special Service Bureau. In that memo he wrote,
“Sir: On November 22, 1963, the following Special Service men where(sic) assigned to work the Presidential motorcade. All the men had assignments on Main St. The following is a list of the men and the locations they worked:
B.K. Carroll 1100 block Main
K.E. Lyon 1700 block Main
H.R. Arnold was supposed to have been in the 700 block per Kaminsky's memo. No report of his duties on the 22nd are in the DPD Archives, and he did not testify to the WC. The 700 block in Carroll's WC testimony is not a mistake, because he told WC Counsel Joseph Ball that this was three to four blocks from the intersection of Main and Houston.
Kaminskyis writing this memo to Gannaway, Gannaway was in charge of the security at the Trade Mart. Had he delegated responsibility for security on Main St. to Kaminsky? And was Kaminsky responsibe for briefing the Detectives?
Captain Gannaway had assigned himself to the Trade Mart.
DPD Archives, Box 1, Folder# 11, Item# 8
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm
2) Where was Bob Carroll?
When Bob Carroll testified to the WC on April 3, 1964, he told them:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carroll.htm
Mr. Carroll: “Since I have been in the Dallas Police Department, I have worked the radio and patrol divisions, the accident prevention bureau and the special service bureau. While assigned to the special service bureau, I worked with the narcotics section, the criminal intelligence section and the vice section and the administrative section.” On November 22nd, he was serving in the Administrative Section as shown on his after-action report in the DPD Archives.
Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, were you on duty?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; I was.Mr. BALL. What were your hours of work that day?
Mr. CARROLL. We were instructed to be in the assembly room at 10 a.m. for briefing prior to the arrival of President Kennedy, and at that time I was in the assembly room at 8 a.m.
Mr. BALL. What job was assigned to you that day?
Mr. CARROLL. I was assigned to the 700 block of Main Street.
Mr. BALL. Along the curb - did you stand along the sidewalk?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; to be there, and, of course, there were uniform officers also assigned in that block, but I think they had one detective for each block.Carroll was actually in a bar when he heard that JFK had been shot.
“Mr. BALL. When did you first hear that the President had been shot?
Mr. CARROLL. I had walked around to a tavern around the corner. I was walking down the street and I passed this person I know and I stepped in this tavern to speak to him and I heard it - they turned on the TV just as I walked in the door and I heard it on the TV set.Mr. BALL. What did you do then?
Mr. CARROLL. I left and went to the office...”He commandeered a car and went down to the TSBD where he participated in a search of the basement.
“The dispatcher stated it was Officer Tippit who was shot and he was dead, and so when I come back out of the office where I had used the phone, I requested permission to go to Oak Cliff and permission was granted and I took K. E. Lyons, and he and I left for Oak Cliff.”
If Carroll had been assigned to the 1100 block of Main, why did he tell the Warren Commission he had been assigned to the 700 block? If he was assigned to the 700 block, what happened to H.R. Arnold?
Did they trade places? If they didn't, who was providing security in the 1100 block?
DPD Archives, Box 2, Folder# 7, Item# 28
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm
Memo from K.E. Lyon to Chief Curry dated December 4, 1963. Lyon was a Patrolman on TDY assignment to the Vice Section of the Special Service Bureau. However, Lyon is not listed in the patrolmen assigned to the Special Service Bureau in Batchelor's Exhibit 5002 - https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Batchelor_Ex_5002.pdf
“On November 22, 1963 at approximately 2:00 PM, Detective B.K. Carroll and I were instructed by Lieutenant E. Kaminsky to go to the Oak Cliff area where Officer J.D. Tippit had been shot.”
K.E. Lyon was in the squad car bringing Oswald back to the station from the Theater. Lyon is listed as one of the arresting officers on Oswald's Arrest Report.
He's a little off on his time. By 2:00 PM, Oswald had already been arrested and brought back to the station.
DPD Archives, Box 3, Folder# 2, Item# 52
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box4.htm
Bob K. Carroll was a Detective in the Administrative Section of the Special Service Bureau. In a signed memo to Chief Curry, he wrote: “At approximately 2:00PM this date the undersigned officer were (sic) enroute to the vicinity of the 300 block of West Jefferson to aid in the search of the killer of Officer J.D. Tippit.” (Though the memo is undated, he writes “this date”, so it must have been written on the 22nd.)
Lyon makes the same mistake on time in his memo of December 4th as Carroll did in his memo of November 22nd. They also both spell Gerald Hill's name as “Jerry” Hill.
So, by 2:00PM, Kaminsky has left the TSBD where Lumpkin had stationed him at the front door collecting names, and had returned to Headquarters where he was able to instruct Carroll and Lyon to proceed to Oak Cliff. Kaminsky was reporting to Gannaway where Detectives had been placed along Main St. It was Kaminsky who Deputy Chief Lumpkin had positioned at the front door of the TSBD. It was Kaminsky who Carroll and Lyon went to when they wanted to go search for Tippit's killer. Was Kamonsky's role on the 22nd a larger one than we knew?
Kaminski is also the Officer who was given the jacket found by James Larue on Industrial Ave. under the Ft. Worth Turnpike. (DPD Archives Box 4, Folder# 3, Item# 26, page 3)
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box4.htm
DPD Archives, Box2, Folder# 7, Item# 12
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm
Carroll put Oswald in car# 226.
From the Dallas Dispatch Tapes:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes3.htm
1:53 PM:
Dispatcher: Where is he (Oswald)? Who's Got him?
550/2 (Gerald Hill): Special Service unit is with us also. We're in his car, 492. (492 is a Special Service Bureau car).
3) Bob Carroll's non-role in the origin of the 605 Elsbeth St. address.
Lieutenant Jack Revill testified before the Warren Commission on May 13, 1964. (Bob Carroll had already testified a month earlier – see below)
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/revill2.htm
The questioning concerns a Report that Revill wrote out at approximately 3:30 to 3:35 on the afternoon of the 22nd conncerning Lee Harvey Oswald at 605 Elsbeth St.
Mr. REVILL. That is what they gave me.
Mr. RANKIN. You found that out?
Mr. DULLES. This is an address he once lived at.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know that?
Mr. DULLES. This is correct. I want to find out what he knows about it.Notice the interplay between Rankin and Dulles. Dulles seems to know about the Elsbeth St. address and he wants to know how Revill knows about it.
Mr. DULLES. Could I ask a question? Where did you get this address that you put on of 605 Elsbeth Street, do you recall?
Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; from Detective E. B. Carroll or Detective Taylor.
Mr. DULLES. Are they subordinates?
Mr. REVILL. No; they are detectives assigned to the special service bureau. One of them works the narcotics squad and one of them is assigned to the vice unit.
Mr. DULLES. You never ascertained where they got it?
Mr. REVILL. No, sir; this might be the address that they got from Oswald, I do not know. I never even thought about it until you brought up the point that this is not the address.
Mr. DULLES. Can you find out where they got this address?
Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I can.
Mr. DULLES. I think that would be useful. I would like to know that. I would like to know where they got this address also.Mr. REVILL. It would have been the same day because this was made within an hour----
The CHAIRMAN. I think that is all. Thank you, again, lieutenant.
Mr. REVILL. I will attempt to find out on that address, and I shall let Mr. Sorrels know, with Secret Service.It's Dulles, not Rankin who keeps pushing Revill where he got this address. Is Dulles concerned that Revill knew about a connection of a Harvey Lee Oswald to Elsbeth St, and how Revill would know about that? Just about the time when Revill would have revealed when he obtained this address, he is cut off.
Warren Commission Document# 948 is a memo from Sorrels to Inspector Kelley dated May 19, 1964.https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11344#relPageId=2&tab=page
In that memo, Sorrels says that Revill contacted Sorrels (it does not say how this contact was made), and said that Revill told him he got the 605 Elsbeth address orally from Bob Carroll. As the driver of the car that took Oswald from the Theater to the police station, Carroll allegedly looked back over his shoulder and read the address off a Dallas Public Library card that had been removed from Oswald's billfold by one of the officers in the back seat. Carroll allegedly said that he misread the number as 605 instead of 602.
This is six days after Revilll's WC testimony, and one month after Bob Carroll told the WC that no mention of an address had been made in the car transporting Oswald to City Hall.
Detective Bob Carroll's testimony before the Warren Commission April 3, 1964
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/carroll.htm
Mr. BELIN. Did he give two names? Or did someone in the car read from the identification?
Mr. CARROLL. Someone in the car may have read from the identification. I know two names, the best I recall, were mentioned.
Mr. BELIN. Were any addresses mentioned?
Mr. CARROLL. Not that I recall; no, sir.There has been some debate over the years whether the number 605 has been typed over to read 602, and I can't really answer that.
A copy of the Library Card can be found in CD 5, page 492.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=497&tab=page
In their after-action reports filed with Chief Curry on December 3rd, neither Caroll (DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 73), nor Detective E.E. Taylor, Special Services Bureau, Narcotics Section (DPD Archives Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 81) make any mention of giving Revill Oswald’s address.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm
K.E. Lyon, who was also in the car transporting Oswald to City Hall in his report: Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 78 makes no mention of obtaining Oswald's address
Did any of Oswald's ID in his billfold have the Irving address on it?
Is Hill lying?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm
About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."
Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said, "Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out.
I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card.
Mr. BELIN. All right; when did you learn of his address?
Mr. HILL. There were two different addresses on the identification.
One of them was in Oak Cliff. The other one was in Irving. But as near as I can recall of the conversation in the car, this was strictly conversation, because I didn't read any of the stuff. It didn't have an address on Beckley, that I recall hearing.
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Now from the time you got in the car to the time you got to the station, I believe you said that at least the second question asked was where do you live, and the man didn't answer?
Mr. HILL. The man didn't answer.
Mr. BELIN. Was he ever asked again where he lived, up to the time you got to the station?
Mr. HILL. No; I don't believe so, because when Bentley got the identification out, we had two different addresses. We had two different names, and the comment was made, "I guess we are going to have to wait until we get to the station to find out who he actually is."Secret Service Report of Dallas SS Agent Robert Steuart dated November 24, 1963.
Itemizes the contents of Oswald's billfold:
“I examined the contents of billfold which I was told was taken from Assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald.”
Item numbers 6&7: front and back sides of Dallas Public Library card bearing the address of 602 Elsbeth. There is nothing in those billfold contents which gives an Irving address.
In his after-action Report, M.G, Hall wrote that FBI Agent Manning Clements inventoried the contents of Oswald's wallet on the evening of November 22nd. On the 23rd, Clements wrote a Report detailing the contents of Oswald's wallet.
Warren Commission Document 5 page 94.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=95&tab=page
This is page 3 of Clement's Report.
A Dallas Public Library card listing the address of 602 Elsbeth.
Nothing in his billfold with an Irving address.
The only two accounts that put the Library card in Oswald's wallet prior to his arrival at police headquarters are erroneous.
In his after-action Report dated December 3, 1963, DPD Archives, Box 2, Folder# 7, Item# 4, page 2
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box2.htm
Detective Paul Bentley wrote: “On the way to the City Hall, I removed the suspect's wallet and obtained his name.... I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Captain Westbrook's office to make a report of this arrest.”
There is nothing in his Report about obtaining an address. Oswald's ID immediately went to Lieutenant Baker. Where is Bentley's Report to Westbrook done on November 22nd. Was it written, or was it just an oral report? Why did he go to Westbrook to make his Report? Westbrook was in Personnel.
Gerald Hill's testimony before the Warren Commission
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm
“Bentley had sprained an ankle, and Lyons had sprained an ankle while effecting the arrest--they were fixing to have to make a whole bushel basket of reports--we adjourned to the personnel office, which was further down the hall from homicide and I sat down and started to try to organize the first report on the arrest.
I originally had the heading on it, "Injuries sustained by suspect while effecting his arrest in connection with the murder of Officer J. D. Tippit," and a few minutes later Captain Westbrook came in the office and said that our suspect had admitted being a Communist. This is strictly hearsay. I did not hear it myself.
He himself also said a few minutes later he had previously been in the Marine Corps, had a dishonorable discharge, had been to Russia, and had had some trouble with the police in New Orleans for passing out pro-Castro literature.
This still is all hearsay because I didn't actually hear it firsthand myself.And at about this point Captain Westbrook suggested that I change the heading of my report to include arrest of the suspect in the assassination of the President and in the murder of Officer J. D. Tippit, which I did.
I originally wrote the report for Bob Carroll's signature and for my signature, and left it with the captain to be typed while we moved over in another office to get a cup of coffee and sort of calm down and recap the events.
By then McDonald was there, and we had added some information that he could give us such as the information about "This is it." Which the suspect allegedly said as he came into contact with him.
The exact location of the officers and who was there on the original arrest and everything, and we were waiting around for the secretary to finish the report.
When we got it back ready to sign, Carroll and I were sitting there, and it had Captain Westbrook's name for signature, and added a paragraph about he and the FBI agent being there, and not seeing that it made any difference, I went ahead and signed the report.
Actually, they were there, but I didn't make any corrections.
And as far as the report, didn't allege what they did, but had added a paragraph to our report to include the fact that he was there, and also that the FBI agent was there.
Now as to why this was done, your guess is as good as mine.”Steve Thomas
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This is just meant as a joke.
The first to ID Lee Harvey Oswald as the killer of John F. Kennedy may very well have been Dallas Secret Service Agent, Robert Steuart.
Secret Service Report of Dallas SS Agent Robert Steuart dated November 24, 1963.
Itemizes the contents of Oswald's billfold:
“I examined the contents of billfold which I was told was taken from Assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald.”
And I thought, Wow! That's pretty straight up isn't it?
No bones about it.
Steve Thomas
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4 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:
Hi Eddy, I did recently comment on Steve's thread about possible jamming on the police frequencies - which I don't see happening since it would be really obvious, at a minimum static at an amplitude two to three times the volume of the regular police transmissions since it would have to totally override them. I'll go back and look at the other thread, while I certainly can see the possibility of radio communication in play among the tactical team I think it would be much more in the nature of very local "walkie talkie" class communications. Its more likely you have visual signaling among a tactical team, such as the fellow raising and lowering his arm on main street. In any event, I'm not sure I see the advantage of working with equipment which would intrude on police frequencies...what do you think would be the purpose?
Larry,
I kind of hoped you would weigh in on this. I think you have a whole lot more expertise in this area than I do.
I have to believe that the scientists who spent thousands of hours going over the dictabelt recordings would have raised the possibility of jamming a long time ago.
But, I wondered. Disrupting radio communications would definitely have served the purpose of sowing confusion.
I have to laugh. Mine was not "idle" speculation. Forlorn maybe? (Merriam Webster definition forlorn: " pitifully sad" )
*smile*
Steve Thomas
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Separate the wheat from the chaff and go on.
That's the nice thing about these Internet forum thingys.
If you think something is a waste of your time, nobody forces you to read or comment on things you don't want to. The last time I looked, there were more than 242,000 posts covering 636 pages in this Forum alone going back to 2004.
Take your pick.
Steve Thomas
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9 minutes ago, David Andrews said:
Could jamming have been done from a laundry truck and trailer parked at an adjacent street corner? Without affecting shooter-spotter frequencies?
David,
I know you can listen in on a certain frequency. Ham radio operators do it all the time.
But I don't know what it would take to broadcast on a certain frequency. You'd be locked out, wouldn't you? Otherwise airlines, etc. would be disrupted all the time.
I just don't have the technical expertise...
Here's DVP's link to the audio transmissions:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KuCx4w_uG78jMwpJXpFe6zxACFv4Iy6n/view
Between 12:30 and 12: 35, does that sound like jamming to you, or is it just an open stuck mike?
Steve Thomas
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9 minutes ago, David Andrews said:
Could jamming have been done from a laundry truck and trailer parked at an adjacent street corner? Without affecting shooter-spotter frequencies?
David,
I know you can listen in on a certain frequency. Ham radio operators do it all the time.
But I don't know what it would take to broadcast on a certain frequency. You'd be locked out, wouldn't you? Otherwise airlines, etc. would be disrupted all the time.
I just don't have the technical expertise...
Here's DVP's link to the audio transmissions:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KuCx4w_uG78jMwpJXpFe6zxACFv4Iy6n/view
Between 12:30 and 12: 35, does that sound like jamming to you, or is it just an open stuck mike?
Steve Thomas
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2 hours ago, Michael Walton said:
The key here is "it could have been jammed" or whatever you want to call it.
What or how could jamming the band possibly have helped? It wouldn't have helped at all so there's really no reason to speculate about it.
Michael,
I will freely admit that the idea of radio jamming is purely speculative, but disrupting communications is classic military doctrine.
I would submit that the first few minutes would be crucial in creating confusion and sowing chaos, making escape that much easier.
Steve Thomas
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53 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:
Steve - I don’t know the answer to your question. But I think that if records were available it would be interesting to listen in on whatever the Continuity of Government bunker under the Dallas fairgrounds was broadcasting that day on their secure communications.
Paul,
Actually, that crossed my mind. The ARRB should have demanded those.
"Army apparently didn't tell commission of Oswald's alias "
Dallas Morning News 3/19/78
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Records%20Release%2012-7-77%20News%20Accounts/Item%20069.pdf
"However, Biggio, who was directing police intelligence communications at the Fair Park office the day of the assassination...." "Don Stringfellow, a fellow police intelligence officer working with Biggio at the Fair Park office,..."
http://www.texasescapes.com/DallasTexas/Dallas-Texas-Fair-Park-26-WRR-Headquarters.htm
“The radio station, located on 1310 AM, received its license in 1921. For reasons unknown, it used the call letters WRR. In addition to broadcasting music, WRR provided radio equipment for the city departments until they could acquire their own apparatus and administered dispatching services for private ambulances and the Cockrell Hill police.”
http://dallascityhall.com/government/citysecretary/archives/Pages/Archives_WRR.aspx
Until the departments had their own internal support, WRR supplied and maintained all radio equipment for Police, Fire, Park and Recreation, Water, Public Works, and the former Health Department. At its peak it furnished dispatching services for Dallas County, Cockrell Hill Police Department, and private ambulance services (in the days before 911). WRR discontinued these adjunct services in 1969.
New Police Radio Facilities:
https://m.facebook.com/Dallas-Police-Department-Museum-116586565145351/
In 1951, the new radio room opened in City Hall.
Larry and Sandy, Thanks for your input. I have to admit, I don't exactly know how jamming works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_jamming
"Obvious jamming is easy to detect because it can be heard on the receiving equipment. It usually is some type of noise such as stepped tones (bagpipes), random-keyed code, pulses, music (often distorted), erratically warbling tones, highly distorted speech, random noise (hiss) and recorded sounds."
I wondered about all that static you hear in those four minutes or so.
Steve Thomas
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Jamming. That's the word I was thinking of.
Would it have been possible to jam the police department radio frequency?
Steve Thomas
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This is just a technical question because I don't know the answer.
I was listening to the DPD Channel 1 broadcast of Nov. 22nd, and thinking about the four minutes or so between a2:30 and 12:35 when Channel 1 was filled with static. I have read of the theory that someone's mike was stuck open. (Suspicion fell on H.B. McLain I think).
Listening closely, I think I pick up the words, "All Units, All Units". If someone's mike was stuck open, you shouldn't be able to hear that should you? Could several people talk at the same time, because I don't hear anyone yelling, "Shots fired. Shots fired".
Rather than a stuck open mike; at that time in 1963, would it have been possible to hack in and override the police communications channel - let's say if you knew the frequency and had broadcasting powers?
Steve Thomas
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10 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:
Steve, I opened your link, but I really don't have any idea of your direction. But I assume you are drawing parallels to the current world market condition.
Kirk,
It sounds like you know a whole lot more than I do about economics and how it works.
I was just reading that Irving paper, and it made me smile. The Dow was running about 700 hundred or so, and the paper was talking about "record-breaking, history-making performances".
It's all relative to the times you are in, isn't it?
It made me smile.
Steve Thomas
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Just now, James DiEugenio said:
I think Steve is taking a page out of the book Were We Controlled.
If you knew the assassination was coming, you could certainly make a lot of money on the market the day after.
Jim,
No, actually, I was just kind of setting the stage in my mind. I've been trying to research September, 1963. For example; something I didn't know, north Texas was just recovering from an extended drought. In Texas, they had the driest first quarter year (January - March) on record. San Antonio had the warmest April since 1885.
But, isn't it funny that two people have come on this Forum in the last 48 hours wanting to tell people what they should or should not talk about.
I find that suspiciously coincidental.
Steve Thomas
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Irving Daily News – Irving Texas
September 14, 1963
STOCK MARKET - Stocks Catch Breath After New High Set. The Dow did it again last week following up the previous week’s history-making performance with another record. The popular Dow’-Jones industrial stock in autos, steels, paper, drug and rails were pacesetters in the market last week, when, eclipsing a spirited midweek show of strength, spurted up a total of 7.12 points Tuesday and Wednesday setting a new all-time high of 740.34. . Volume of approximately 33 million shares on the NY5L was the heaviest trading of the year, topping the previous week of 24.3 million shares. Last week’s advance was a continuation of the sustained upward march stock prices have made since late July when the Dow Industrials were at the 690 level. Business reports continued to favor the stock market bulls but the bears are sitting on the sidelines wondering just how long the advance can continue, and when the market will begin to discount an economic adjustment.
*smile*
Steve Thomas
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3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:
page 2.
Mrs. C: These two men came to the Twilly home in the company of a very attractive Cuban girl who represented this student group and also Dean Perkins, whom I know very well, Dean and his wife Jan; I believes they are from the St. Bernard Parish and they were interested in the resettlement of the Cubans long before I ever became interested.
The St. Bernard of Clairvaux Church and School are on the edge of White Rock Lake in the Casa Linda subdivision of Dallas.
Steve Thomas
Miami FBI Agent James O'Connor interview of Joaquin Martinez de Pinillos 12/23/63:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57746&relPageId=29&search=Pinillospage 29
FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 59
"Mr. Pinollos stated that Dean Perkins, 11022 Genetta Dr. Dallas, Texas assisted the DRE in organizing the meetings and arranging the publicity attached to the meetings".
Google Maps location of 11022 Genetta Dr.
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page 2.
Mrs. C: These two men came to the Twilly home in the company of a very attractive Cuban girl who represented this student group and also Dean Perkins, whom I know very well, Dean and his wife Jan; I believes they are from the St. Bernard Parish and they were interested in the resettlement of the Cubans long before I ever became interested.
The St. Bernard of Clairvaux Church and School are on the edge of White Rock Lake in the Casa Linda subdivision of Dallas.
Steve Thomas
Kennedy, Tibet and the Sino-India War
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Whoops. Hit the wrong button.
What I was going to say, is that if I understand it correctly. JFK did the same thing in Laos.
Steve Thomas