Kirk Gallaway

That's an absurd notion. Of course they're not. Why would they? What are you advocating, Ben? The end of global trade? Almost no country would advocate that. The U.S. and China are the least likely to do that. You can't find any modern industrial country who wants to get rid of globalism like you Ben. The reason is if they tried to do that the world economy would collapse. No President in the U.S. would try that because of a factor you're probably not aware of because you've been away so long halfway around the world. I haven't heard you mention once that the American people wouldn't stand for it, They like their cheap Chinese made goods. Just as no U.S. politician will try to put on an austerity program with the goal of retiring the 23 trillion dollar debt. Just saying "I hate globalism" won't do anything. It's as hippydippish as saying "everybody in the world should destroy all their weapons and every citizen of the world should give up all their guns". In this specific case the answer involves a nothing short of instilling a revolution in the American mind that over time their lifestyle will suffer for a trade imbalance with the Chinese. As I showed you, Trump didn't do it, he only said he did and ended up hurting our country more. That's not going to happen until the reality is facing them directly and that will probably be too late, just as sure as the fact that we've had 50 years to solve climate change and nobody ended up doing anything about that. You can keep blaming it on "the globalists". But until you impress on the public to take their responsibility and buy American goods, you will get nowhere, because no one but you wants to end world trade. Or you can also be a dreaded "globalist", and encourage other countries than China to produce our consumer goods, or a combination of both.

Pretty scary Steve! But I suppose there are some members of Parliament that are the equivalent to Louie Gohmert who are liable to say anything. My God Fort Ross! I didn't know that was still a bone of contention! The Russians are Coming! the Russians are Coming!! Fort Ross is on the Mendocino Coast in Northern California. It's an historic tourist site. But rather small, and doesn't get too many visitors. ******* Leaked Kremlin Memo to Russian Media: It Is “Essential” to Feature Tucker Carlson https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/03/exclusive-kremlin-putin-russia-ukraine-war-memo-tucker-carlson-fox/

So you now agree with me. Your "Globalist Biden" is BS. and the retreat or "deglobalization" is actually due to Biden and Nato political pressure on the corporate state? So you' were putting together elements at odds with each other and calling them the same. It's important to understand the changing relationships, but I'll take your point that the status quo isn't working for the welfare of the Ukrainian people. Rather than just dismiss things into convenient hyphenated labels, it's important to judge all prevailing forces, Including political forces. Though it seems, the dystopian prognosticators can't ever fathom the idea that it's much harder to implement a policy that doesn't have public support than one that does. ****** A case in point: I saw the Canadian Parliament in session this morning in a live feed with Zelensky. There was multi minute applause in Parliament. Trudeau gets on there and expresses his solidarity with the Ukrainian people and extols their bravery and says in essence we're behind you 100%! I knew they were walking into a trap and Zelensky wasn't going to be kiss a-s boy scout. He talked about the everyday shelling, having a Russian flag being hoisted over their cities, how their cities don't have food or water, and all the atrocities and says to the Canadians. "How would you react to such a reality?" He's obviously saying talk is cheap. And at the end he's still given thunderous applause. It's going to be the same when he goes before the U.S. Congress tomorrow. How that filters down effects policy and I suspect there will be a call for lots more of everything short of Nato trying to establish a NFZ over Ukraine.

Yeah, everybody's saying everything right now. Why would China risk that and kill their golden goose? ,that is the American consumer? If they keep out of it, and play their cards right. In 20 years the sky's the limit! Unless the absolute worst is happening and they decide to blow it all, blow off the interdependence with the U.S.and the current situation where they're gradually eroding the economic power of the rest of the world and go after Taiwan. That just seems so stupid. It seems the Taiwan situation would be sometime in the future after the yuan becomes the world currency, and they'd have supreme confidence that the U.S. is no longer a threat. But I guess you can't be completely sure.

What you're seeing is the exact opposite. The corporate globalist state is executing an extensive severing of global supply lines to and from Russia. This is the greatest act of deglobalization in our lifetime. This has been brought on by political pressure by Biden and the governments of Nato. Ben:What is wrong is when multinationals control US foreign-military-trade policies, which is where we are now No, I understand the extent of the world corporate state. And the story of Smedley Butler and where it was at a very simplistic stage 90 years ago. . It's very important to make these distinctions, Ben. If the Corporate State completely had their way as you imply. There would be no sanctions anywhere, ever. To say it again, this has been brought on by political pressure from Biden and the Nato nations. Ben:The globalists are now wondering how to limit damage to their images and bottom lines. Better sit down for this one. As ironic as that may seem only 2 months ago.They are in no danger of damaging their images, unless they're called out in world public opinion for moving too slow. i guarantee you they will not get any flak from their shareholders either. Ben: Stop the sale of Russian oil. You're aware Biden has cut off oil from Russia, but Germany got rid of their nuclear power plants, which however anyone feels about nuclear power, were clean and cheap and now has become dependent on Russia oil and LNG, so they can't stop. Biden from the beginning suggested everyone in Nato completely cut off Russian oil, but was told by Germany they won't go along with it. So you can't blame Biden for that. I would say, the most effective things they can do as far as sanctions, now is financial, They've cornered 70 % of Putin funds and froze a number of oligarchs funds and luxury items I don't know if you've heard but now even dirty Deutsche bank is getting out of Russia. Still Putin has 30%, which is plenty. They definitely have to pull more levers. Some of this involves forensic research which has developed greatly in the last few years.

I don't think if Nato didn't expand that Russia would have started gobbling back their old territories in East Europe. But I don't think that Putin has been that threatened by Nato expansion, or he wouldn't have been relatively quiet about it until 2007 and never even mentioned it to Obama in his first term. He's just using security as a war aim to his masses. It's more like the case of a long time abusive husband refusing to let his wife go. He really has nothing to bring to the table in the way of security or economic well being. He's really just jealous, abusive, and concerned about how it looks to his world standing. And Matt is right, if given the choice what country wouldn't choose Western ways over Russia and Putin? Somehow, I think these peace talks tomorrow might finally make some progress. Let's hope.

Well put W.! Jeff's gone from being our forum "man inside Putin's head" assuring us first there would be no invasion, and now has made his peace with the new reality and is now a pillaging Putin apologist. Jim said he expected Putin to take the eastern provinces and get away with it, as if that might be just anyway. . But what I never hear from Jeff, Jim or Oliver Stone is this precise point. There's no recognition of the dictatorial fascist state that Putin has lead Russia to. Somehow that's should be recognized as just part of their historical DNA and are not to be be judged by western norms. There's never any mention of the oligarchs or a kleptocracy or of any real matters of Russian domestic policy, or any disgust about the treatment of their own people. Similarly with Stones 4 hour interview there's a passing mention to oligarchs where Putin in essence talks of them in the past tense, like it's a problem that's been overcome. But also never a mention of a kleptocracy or civil rights, or the imprisoning of journalists. Russia is just used as a foreign policy template to highlight U.S. imperialist policies. Similarly it's as if any concept of a free speech open society as something to aspire, is an almost silly appurtenance of an ethnocentric West. And somehow any of these questions are not really relevant consideration to the growth of Russia, maturing into a modern civilized society. I already posted this, but to those who've never seen it, this should tell you how decisions are made in Putin's Russia. He's 40 feet away from all his advisors who are standing up in row facing him. He's just arrogantly displaying his boorish command.

Thanks Joe, Must say something about me that I keep watching it. Maybe we can get him to drive a "Z" tank.

Speaking of Trump. Maybe it's time to lighten the load with some very sophmoric humor. We'll entitle this one: "Orange Man Mafia Don coming back from the links:" https://youtu.be/DJsn1QivbKM

Yeah, what's with Biden? Didn't he get the memo from Ben that after a year of his completely unneeded lecturing to us about the horrible history of U.S. military interventions, that Ben has decided he's now gung ho no fly zone in Ukraine? So what's stopping Biden? Biden has punk'd Putin in every aspect of the PR war for the last couple of months. He anticipated Putin's movements warned of false flag maneuvers and rationalizations Putin might come up with. He's drastically devalued the ruble leaving Russian oligarchy and Russian elites scrambling, and honoring his treaties in place of a direct confrontation with Russia in Europe, and somehow has managed the most comprehensive corporate boycott the word's ever seen. I like this article in Salon, the only small criticism I may make about this excerpt is in the second paragraph, we still may be in the early innings on how this will play out. ** The value of Biden's efforts to solve the most complicated international crisis since the end of World War II is unrecognizable to those who support the arrogant, obnoxious efforts of Putin-wannabes who thrive in the dark cesspool of American politics. These are the devotees of spreading disinformation who declare they defend democracy while cheering the insurrectionists of Jan. 6. Biden has been crystal clear about his intentions: He means to economically strangle Putin into submission, avoid a wider conflict and strengthen our European democratic allies — leaving Russia weaker. His experience on the international stage during a lengthy career in public office has provided him with a unique perspective, and the skills to get this done. There are many in this country who decry experience, or say it doesn't matter. Biden's experience is proving otherwise, although the amount of bile that passes for political straight talk makes it next to impossible for the average uninformed American to understand the nuances of our current international crisis. https://www.salon.com/2022/03/10/vladimir-putin-is-losing-the--at-least-on-social-media-heres-why-that-matters/ This lead to another Salon article about the Fox News coverage. Why should we have any hope, that Fox would grow up and start realizing the seriousness of the situation, and not just use the war as another opportunity to bash Joe Biden? It first talks about a Fox News reporter Benjamin Hall, on the ground in the Ukraine taking umbrage at that geeky, grousing Glen Gutfeld's depiction of the war coverage designed only to solicit an "emotional response " from viewers. Then it shows a few excerpts where a Fox News reporter Jennifer Griffin taking issue with Sean Hannity and other Fox hosts and guests depictions of the war. I was impressed. We could certainly see more of her on "Fair and balanced" Fox news! https://www.salon.com/2022/03/09/fox-vs-fox-reporter-refutes-greg-gutfelds-claim-over-emotional-response-to-ukraine/

Ben:Hillary informs viewers the Russians got bogged down in Afghanistan. There is a great history lesson there, and it may happen again in Ukraine. This is what i mean by Ben finding religion, in 3 short days. Now he's gung ho invasion. .Why should we pay any any attention to your changing feelings?

I'm not sure what resolve they were supposed to have. They understood that treaty wise, the U.S. could do nothing and I suppose everybody can be blamed now for not expecting the worst. First off, I don't think there's ever been a globalist campaign to prop up Putin, most of it is the standard corporate apologist sheepishness. "If we don't do business with him, someone else will." Only Trump and his group propped up Putin. I think the start of the divestment wave came before we could effectively know Zelensky and Ukraine were putting up any real effective resistance at all. He could have just been BS'ing to keep morale, for all we know. The only thing we could be sure about is that he denied the U.S. giving him exile. It's hard for me to believe Joe Biden would have been so persuasive to corporate America, as you depict him. (Yes, he''s pulled strings for his son, but he was one of the least invested people in Congress, except for a few lefties.) The cascade of corporate divestment has been so quick, it's hard to know what influence Biden had, but he will be given credit for it. Ben:The globalists are now wondering how to limit damage to their images and bottom lines. I have no idea what you're talking about. Who are they suppose to apologize to? Apologize to Ben, whose done a 3 day conversion from posting a Hilary Clinton post on Sunday, preaching to us to not to be like Hilary and get sucked into a war, and has suddenly found religion and is gung ho on invading Ukraine now? i guarantee you they will not get any flak from their shareholders either.

Ben:Or maybe, the DC globalists (who run Biden) initially decided there was more money to be made by rolling over on Ukraine, and doing business with Putin. Ergo, the flaccid response pre-invasion. Ben, Your narrative is 180 degrees wrong. I don't think you realize what's going on. Now companies from almost every industry and every sector are pulling out of Russia. Bp, Exon, Shell, Caterpillar, Ford, Toyota, Ferari, Volkswagen, Addidas, Disney, Ikea, Nike, Sony, John Deere, General Electric, Honeywell, Starbux, Pepsi, Coca Cola, Mac Donalds, Discover, Visa. Mastercard, American Express, Moody's, Netflix, Apple, Google, Tik Tok, Facebook. I never thought I would see such divestment. And as someone whose down on the corporate state, I'm not completely comfortable with it. In this case, they're right, but they may not be in the future. All those corporations don't personally undertake to go to war. That's through an act of government that could be influenced by the Defense industry, but you're calling them and the government cowards because in the U.S. there's enough wariness in public support after after waging 2 horrible wars, to get involved directly with Russia in a war, with good reason. But I'm not altogether sure you won't end up getting your way, because I haven't seen the public get so pro involvement about a foreign war since after 911, and it looks like if this doesn't stop, there could at least be a proxy war. We're essentially abiding by an agreement we've made to not get involved with Ukraine. And the entire premise that Putin is using is that he can invade because in his paranoia, he envisions some day when we could make a deal to defend Ukraine. What complete hippocracy! Ukraine had the third biggest nuclear arsenal in the world and gave it up in the Budapest memorandum, under the condition that 2 signatories, Russia and the U.S. would not invade them, and Russia has violated that agreement. Of course any power move that's made has to be evaluated if we are pushing Putin further in a corner and how far will he go? He's already lost enough. Even if there was an agreement by Zelensky to not join Nato, he will forever be a pariah, and will never be trusted on the world scene again. So this will have turned out to be a miserable failure in any case.

Chris, Isn't that what I'm saying here? It's being accomplished right now, but not a shot has been fired, and there's certainly no great need to rock the boat to eliminate 90% of the world's population! It's done very seamlessly and it's a lot more insidious than the standard conspiracy theories, like the Great Reset theories. Since you forgot, go back to page 500. You reacted to it at the time, though personally but not substantively.

There are several spins on the "Great Reset." They differ in the aims of the reset, though all of them imply a deliberate implementing of some catastrophic changes, though varying in degrees.. Dennis has bought this theory hook, line and sinker. But I'm not sure if he thinks the aim is a 90% reduction, but he might. The villianization of Faucci and a belief that the RNA spike protein vaccines will end in a massive depopulation within 2 years, is one of his major tenets so there should be a massive deaths jn the hundreds of millions very soon. It all involves the elites completely overthrowing the status quo, like this is some last ditch effort?? As if the status quo over the last 40 years hasn't been going well enough with them? They've managed to marginalize the middle classes without anyone barely noticing it was them who've done it. They need people to carry out their plans. Why f--- with the formula? Just a lot of poorly targeted, wasted efforts.

Well, if you believe that , I've got some WMD in Florida to sell you. I just hope Tom Cotton, Little Marco and Lindsey Graham don't get as incensed as you. But I'm not sure about Biden. We actually offered Zelensky exile, and he didn't take it.

What????So you think Biden should establish a no fly zone in Ukraine? And you don't think that's going to expand the conflict?

Steve, George, W. Ben , I'm in complete agreement. They told us about this day 50 years ago. If we had put half the effort back then toward battery technology that we've put in the last 15 years, we would at least had this taken care of this by the turn of the century. I hate to think about how late we are. I think this could be the tipping point. Al Gore always struck me as kind of slow and deliberate in his speech. I thought he didn't have a lot on the ball, but he was a really sharp guy. I was trying to find a clip of him warning a Senate Subcommittee about the dangers of climate change in 1986. After wading through a bunch of old parodies from climate change deniers, I found this interview from 1992. I remember Jim Di said Gore was skeptical of the Warren Report. What other Presidential nominee can you say that about? In 2000, I ended up making a protest vote for Ralph Nader, and then GW won, then 911, then the war in Afghanistan and his own war in Iraq! In retrospect, even apart from almost 20 years of war, can you imagine a greater environmental crossroads between 2 candidates? Looking back at it, what a dumb time for a protest vote! He's asked about Clinton's prospects in the upcoming 92 election. Then later Clinton picks him as VP! ***** Steve, that story amazed me too. What possible reason does Mark Edwards have to have that shack as his voting address?

Ok, seriously I have thought of Paul's real message behind the sarcasm.. Hey, sh-t happens in war. They could be fortifying themselves, and this could be running basically according to plan as Putin said. It could be to show overwhelming force and to take over most of the country, and sit ominously surrounding Kiev, hoping that would have been a superior bargaining position. I do tend to believe several Western propaganda points. I do think the resistance was greater than he had counted on. It should be apparent to him by now, that devastating the country is going to be hell for him to hold on and I don't think he counted at all at the resistance that the the U.S. and Nato have put up. Now we're not going to buy oil from them. He could very well be at an inflection point. We're approaching Venezuela right now about dropping some sanctions and buying oil from them. And of course we'd have more oil from Iramn if Trump didn't jettison the treaty. That's another source. And with both of these, I say, why the hell not? Isn't it about time we let go of these decade log prohibitions? Then the next thing people are recommending is that we approach Saudi Arabia. I don't want to approach that scum at all. But the oil producers are having a bonanza like they always do in these situations. We should just impose a ceiling at the pump. They'll still be making plenty of money. They have an obligation to the security of the country. I see Shell is moving out of Russia. Whoa, Markets are moving up at a rumor that Ukraine is softening about the future possibility of joining Nato. We'll see.

I've been thinking that Paul, maybe Putin is our( U.S,) "Manchurian candidate" and we've programmed him to completely mess up his country to devastate Ukraine while we economically bring Russia to it's knees and it foments a revolution within Russia. When they are sufficiently debilitated. We move in to both countries, take over the Ukrainian bread basket, and turn them over to Bill Gates, who knows how to use them. We take over the Russian economy and reap the profits leaving the populace at their current subsistence level. It will be done so seamlessly, just business as usual and only a handful of people like us on conspiracy forums will have any clue at the end how the transformation happened. But alas no one will listen to us. and we'll continue to be bottom dwellers at the floor of the ocean of an ever deepening U.S. "Deep State"., Paul "Shome mishtake, shurely? What?? are you sure you're not an Israeli agent? Maybe I shouldn't have revealed our plan!

Thug? So he hasn't graduated yet to mass murder/ war criminal yet? "Thug" is Roger Stone. It always does get back to the wicked U.S. deep state with their x-ray eyes that force all their adversaries to make stupid mistakes with just a passing glance, which is reinforced by Aaron Mate in this interview. Ben you've stated many times here on the forum that your big 3 journalists were Glen Greeneald, Matt Taibbi and Aaron Mate. This is perhaps the most heralded triumvirate of journalistic sources I've seen here on the forum. Curiously all 3 of these guys are pro Putin apologists, even though you're not. I applaud you for your devotion I guess, but isn't it time to break away and get some new idols? I understand putting all your eggs in one basket, you find yourself in somewhat of orphan situation, much like fellow Californian Devan Nunes. . I wouldn't mention this but I think these guys have done a horrible disservice to us. Thank God Matt Taibbi has admitted he made a mistake to his credit, and now we've found out Glen Greenwald was at first in favor of Bush's War in Iraq, a corporate lawyer for Goldman Sachs, who was in favor of Citizen's United and took money from the Koch's for starters. I've never found you to tune in much to your audience Ben, but that is about as poison a combo of affiliations as you can get here! Then we ran the obligatory appropriately short, "low hanging fruit" video bashing of Tucker Carlson, Mike Pompeo and of course Trump. Now, as promised in my final installment we'll go after Aaron Mate, and coincidentally I was just sent this clip from a member of my family which gave me a sort of divine mission in posting this and completing the series. A shout out to my family without whose support I might not have finished this series. heh heh ***** Mate use to be the cool, calm and collected one. Now he's starting to look more unglued, like Glenn Greenwald. Mate begins this segment with washed up L.A.comedian now political podcaster Jimmy Dore in this Feb. 26 interview starting around 11:00. Mate asserts Russia should have just cutoff oil to Europe in retaliation , but they were forced to invade Ukraine by Fascist Biden who won't make the Zelensky follow the Minsk accords, and besides has no legal right to sanction anyway. Mate, "We've had nonstop expansion of Nato". Yes in the last 13 years, they've admitted one country in 13 years and 4 little countries this century.Mate says this is all a ploy by the U.S. to take care of Europe's oil needs. Biden was using the threat of supplying Europe with LNG as a deterrent against Russian invasion. Ok, that's what I might expect, but it's only one aspect of the whole thing, and it didn't end deterring them. And this is the most credible this gets.. But it goes downhill from there. Mate says the Russians aren't like the U.S. and don't indiscriminately bomb civilian targets! Oh really Aaron?, What is he saying now a week later? He completely bought the Putin Kool Aid, " I trust him, He's a great guy!." Mate whines that the US "doesn't really care" and puts down the U.S. for not invading Ukraine, and escalating this conflict to WWlll? Is he crazy? Also given the fact that the U.S. would be violating the Nato charter by invading and are abstaining. So can you see Mate is just being a silly bitch and nothing will make him happy. He could have at least said, " I'm glad the U.S. doesn't invade." But who is the country who invaded a sovereign nation?? Mate says it is the U.S!! Or the U.S. made it happen and why? No real reason, only because the U.S. has to have some country to kick around? Under what possible logic? What a doubling down spin that is. That's because his career as an online bser has lost credibility and is going down the tubes. Now he'll just be a "fringey " guy. In the cable he cited from wikileaks, he said one of our diplomats William Byrnes said there could be a war if the U.S. admits Ukraine to Nato, (39:26- 39:44) then he says around 39:44, "that's exactly what's happened". That's not what's happened. Ukraine wasn't admitted into Nato, and probably never would have been! But Russia didn't care, and invaded anyway! That was no bomb shell. There were several people who warned Russia could get angry. The U.S. did not overthrow Ukraine in 2014, and for Mate to casually pass it off by saying Obama knows that is a lie. He can't substantiate it. It's true Yanukovych was an oligarch who was run out of government to leave a huge estate and found to be pilfering his mother country for billions only to later be given a platform in exile with an interview by Oliver Stone. Mate seems to have embraced Putin's claim to" denazify" Ukraine, but it is BS. Do you know Zelensky's a Jew? He won election with 82% of the vote! Some ethnic cleansing has gone on in East and Central Europe for centuries, and of course West Europe and the Nazis. In a week, Mate has been completely discredited.All those guys, Mate, Greenwald, Stone, have been scrambling because at first they said their pal Putin would never invade, then only invade in the Donbass region, and now they are talking out of both sides of their mouths trying to rationalize a full scale invasion at great loss of life and displacement. What other excuse can they make than if you knew the real truth, like they do, they had no choice, the U.S. made them do it. Isn't it interesting, that a confluence of events occur where you can see all the accumulated flaws in people's thinking come cascading down. I think the Trump election and the conspiracy mania it brought further exacerbated a view that the U.S. "government deep state" was behind all the evils of the world. All these researchers, some of whom had done good work were so preoccupied by the government deep state, they ignored the wholesale abuse of the law by Trump to defend him and then ignored all the evidence against Putin because in their paranoid delusions. They thought it just another government deep state media conspiracy.

First off, I love movies, but I'm not a movie reviewer. I saw "Winter on fire" on Netflix about the Ukraine uprising in 2014. I'm not sure if the title was made in response to Stone's "Ukraine on Fire" but I expect this movie would incite Oliver Stone to cry "propaganda" but isn't that the "goose being too good for the ganda"?, or how does that saying go? heh heh Winter on Fire is a co production of Ukraine, the U.S. and the U.K.. It is definitely more human based and entertaining then Stones "Ukraine on fire". "Ukraine on fire" is more ideological and delves into old pre war Ukranian historical past affiliations, and nationalist figures and pushes a much more hardcore ideological point of view, and sort of cries "fascist.". So they're completely different documentaries about the same event. This shows an the ground progression of a movement of diverse groups of people coming together starting with simpler protests and then being escalated by increasingly restrictive laws and increased police brutality ( by the Berkut), until it becomes a live war in the streets. It's told from a cross section of the protestors lives.. A criticism could be made that perhaps the uprising is too populist. They are patriotic and they seemed to be united by a theme that they want to be free to break away from their long chains of association to Russia, and adapt more western ways. You could always make a case that a film maker could choose certain targeted people to spin a narrative to their advantage. And you can't just let a movie make you decide how you think about a given world event. But unless you've bought the kool aid that no country has a hope of free will and are just pawns at the passing glance, of Obama and the U.S.'s drive to world hegemony, this is a pretty powerful flick.

That's pretty intriguing Matt, What's your source?

I've posted the broader conference. His mother was told in 1963 that they are now going to war in Vietnam, that it will last 10 years, and it would end in 57,000 deaths! Too omnipotent , too prophetic, too much a low hanging fruit for the conspiracy hungry. Sorry I don't buy it. Of the 3 major points as to Bush's early ties to the agency, he confused the details of the FBi Hoover memo with Bush's Parrot accusation. But I suppose that could happen to anybody. Yo Mama!

Yes, it would have been good if we could have seen an ongoing narrative about the horrors of war in Baghdad or Aleppo. Unfortunately I think it's just human nature that people discount the suffering of people who don't look like them , or have their lifestyle. To put it crudely, there can be a rationaiization when they see poorer areas like Syria undergoing bombing that "these people didn't have a pot to piss in the first place", and that their lives aren't as precious. I think this gruesome scenario being played out in a European country for the world to see could be valuable in what's a long term trend away from War as a means to settle disputes, but it won't happen soon and there are lots of bottlenecks along the way. Unfortunately it looks like Ukraine is going to be the sacrificial lamb.