Joe Bauer

My Gad! Think how traumatizing the situation was for Marina starting on 11,22,1963. This 22 year young, non-english speaking foreign born woman with infant child and after just giving birth to another and totally depended on others for everything and no normal protective mother or father or other relative figure to lean on yet having an oppressively controlling and nutty mother-in-law telling her what to do ... then has to face the full scary force of frantic and suspicious police and federal agency people and flash bulb blinding and yelling world press, all confronting her at once with the gut wrenching charge of her husband committing not just one but two brutally horrific world changing murders! And with the fear that her and her own children's lives and security were seriously at stake at the same time! Marina didn't know what would happen to her and her children. Would they be attacked by angry citizens? Would the police arrest her and suspect her of some spy or collusion activity? She had to frantically worry about everything she said at every second to everyone. She had to hide the backyard photo. Putting it in her shoe? She had to keep her husband's General Walker shooting secret. 34 year old Jackie Kennedy with massive personal sympathy support had to be under a doctor's care and taking lots of sedatives to get through her trauma. 22 year old Marina, poorer than poor, alone, scared out of her mind and with NO emotional support at all got through her equally horrific trauma on her own? With no medical sedative help? That was an astoundingly amazing personal strength Marina Oswald story imo.

Cory, JFK and Jackie K. had no where near the celebrity exposure and fame ( both here and worldwide ) before and right up to JFK's election to office. However starting from that point on combined with the massive media coverage of the world's most powerful man and most glamorous political couple, by 1963 they had ascended to the unprecedented celebrity icon level I described. I don't present this JFK and Jackie attraction and popularity sensation proposition because I was personally in love with them and specifically Jackie. I was just 12 years old in 1963. However, if one just reads and studies even a little of the reported and recorded massive political and celebrity media coverage of them both here and worldwide during that time, it's irrefutable that they were on a level of celebrity unlike anything we and the rest of the world had ever seen. With every parade trip abroad, JFK's popularity ( and Jackie's if she accompanied him ) just increased exponentially. Wherever JFK went, the crowds were huge and cheering wildly. It was serious adoration. I later knew people who traveled abroad during JFK's presidency and they related that JFK and Jackie's faces graced the covers of pop culture magazines in every big city. Always in a glamorous way. Jackie became the most celebrity media followed woman on Earth. Her looks and bearing were the epitome of inspiring and envied physical beauty, fashion and education class. As JFK hilariously once joked in a public speech, Jackie and her latest hair and fashion styles were of more interest to the world press than his and LBJ's doings. JFK and Jackie had become the world's most fascinating and media covered celebrities. That's not an exaggeration born out of my own adulation and attraction to them. I posted the Santa Monica Ca. beach scene photo of an almost naked dripping wet JFK being chased and groped by a mob of squealing carnal desire crazed women because imo this photo perfectly exemplified the effect on American women JFK had after his image and news coverage videos had been thrust thousands of times into their everyday lives and world. Sex appeal in political election candidates does effect voters, especially women regards male candidates imo. In all the presidential elections I have witnessed, I have seen hundreds of early entry candidates that you just knew were never going to garner enough of the physical attraction vote from the get go. I do not know the official percentage of the female vote JFK won in the 1960 election. However, my guess is in the 1964 election he would have won at least 10 to 20% more, just because of his unprecedented crazed sexual attraction effect on women. Are that many women voters that susceptible to such a visceral emotion based bias? In JFK's case, I believe so. Look at that JFK crazed women attack beach scene photo again. Those wild-eyed women were sexualized zombies and obviously "in love" with JFK! The thousands of female sidewalk crowd persons in the 11,22, 1963 Dallas motorcade were also excitedly screaming, smiling and waving at JFK and Jackie as well. OMG, there he is! Ohhh he "is" as handsome as he looks in the magazines and on TV! Poor LBJ wasn't even noticed or waved at in his plain, unadorned follow up car. Same with that Love Field airport crowd that went screaming turned on nuts when JFK and Jackie actually came to them and shook their hands! That was the physical attraction effect reality with JFK and Jackie! These millions didn't want their fantasy couple removed from office. It was too pleasurable to see them in the news and magazines every day. And lastly, my guess is also that JFK may have naively trusted his security people to have at least kept a binocular check on opened high building floor windows along his parade route as he was passing underneath them.

HERE HERE!

Who were the two letters to Marina from? Wouldn't all mail coming into the U.S. from Russia in 1962 and 1963 have been flagged, opened and examined by agencies and the postal service? And perhaps photo copied before it reached it's addressee?

Humes testified that he did not know why JFK's brain was not weighed during the autopsy. He did not weigh the brain. Or, if it was, why the weight was not listed until weeks later in the final report. That weight was listed as more than an average male brain weight. Everyone testified that some of JFK's brain was missing. Humes said at one point JFK's brain just fell out into his hands. Inferring it was mush instead of a firmer fibrous covered organ? These under oath testimony JFK brain discrepancies alone beg serious doubt questions. Humes sworn testimony to the ARRB in 1996: Q. I'd like to draw your attention to a few items on the first page of this document. Right next to the marking for brain, there's no entry of a weight there. Do you see that on the document? A. Yes, I see that it's blank, yeah. Q. Why is there no weight for the brain there? A. I don't know. I don't really--can't really recall why. Q. Was the fresh brain weighed? A. I don't recall. I don't recall. It's as simple as that. Q. Would it be standard practice for a gunshot wound in the head to have the brain weighed? A. Yeah, we weigh it with gunshot wound or Page 75 no. Normally we weigh the brain when we remove it. I can't recall why--I don't know, one, whether it was weighed or not, or, two, why it doesn't show here. I have no explanation for that.

Your post above is more insightfully expressed and broader scoped than mine. I envy your perceptive intelligence and writing skills in expanding my post thoughts to a greater deeper understanding and thought provoking degree. The other aspects to JFK and Jackie in their greatest level adoration appeal you mention are so true and obvious. How did I miss them? JFK gave many middle class and poorer Americans, especially Americans of color, real feelings of believing hope that under his leadership their American dream and equal rights citizens aspirations could be a reality, or in the least improved upon. If a book were written on the subject of JFK and Jackie's unprecedented, almost magical national and even worldwide admired icon status appeal (including sex symbol ) your post above would be a great introduction imo.

Totally agree.

I disagree. What's the payback reward for making a splash, if you never let anyone know you did this or when asked, you deny you even did it at all? So, if Oswald had killed Walker he would never want anyone to know he did this the rest of his life? Oswald wanted to make a splash that only he could revel in ... silently to himself? Oswald wrote about his Russia experience. He wanted to perhaps have this made into a book? You do this for public attention. Oswald took ridiculously incriminating pictures of himself. Known as the backyard pictures. Again, something to be shown to someone else for attention? Oswald made himself ridiculously public visible in his New Orleans middle of downtown broad daylight leaflet passing. This splash event was meant to bring him attention. And it did. Even radio and even TV coverage. But the JFK shooting? The biggest splash action of his life? No, I don't want to be known for this one. I am just a patsy.

Humes testified that he did not know why JFK's brain was not weighed during the autopsy. He did not weigh the brain. Or, if it was, why the weight was not listed until weeks later in the final report. That weight was listed as more than an average male brain weight. Everyone testified that some of JFK's brain was missing. Humes said at one point JFK's brain just fell out into his hands. Inferring it was mush instead of a firmer fibrous covered organ? These under oath testimony JFK brain discrepancies alone beg serious doubt questions.

If Oswald did the Walker shooting and JFK one...he had an escape plan for each. If the inference by Marina is that she feared Lee would shoot Nixon when she fought him into the bathroom and locked the door, I doubt that Lee had this in mind. He had no planning for Nixon's visit. No escape plan. "I am just a patsy." I would like to ask Ruth Paine if she has an opinion as to why Oswald would say such a weirdly specific denial comment to the world press, if he wanted to make a splash? A person seeking to make a splash would want to do this for the attention reward...correct? In the 1950s and 60's our small town had a public pool. I would go there every week day in the summer starting at the age of 6. We had two diving boards. A smaller level one and a high dive one. Every day, half a dozen jokers would jump off the high dive board and try to make as big a splash as they could, hoping to spray water on the pool side sunbathers. One splash dive was called the "cannon ball." The diver would curl his feet and legs underneath his torso and bend his upper body and head down to meet his legs to make himself into a round cannon ball. I'll admit, the splash from this cannon ball dive was almost always bigger than all the rest. Sometimes a 300 to 400+ pound person would appear on the high dive and draw everyone's OMG LOOK attention and then usually belly flop into the pool. And the tsunami waves generated by this were so enormous it would lift some pool swimmers right out of the water! And flood the sunbathing area as well. Now THOSE...were splashes!

Whether or not this thread is appropriately relevant in the forum's JFK research, education, debate and truth mission integrity context, it does reveal an aspect to the entire JFK historical story and especially his presidency that imo is more interesting and important than simple salacious JFK immorality gossip nonsense. As well as the theory that the national seeding of it into our societal zeitgeist consciousness ( for almost 60 years now ) is and has been a coordinated deliberate effort by sinister powers to damage JFK's personal image and along with this a deflection and dissipation of interest away from his assassination and the caring for the Warren Commission disbelieving truth regards who did it and why. I believe that JFK ( along with his wife Jackie ) had ascended a level of American ( and even international ) societal consciousness appeal during his presidency to such a physical attraction based degree it acquired an unprecedented iconic celebrity status. Millions of people liked JFK for his seemingly more liberal progressive ideological leanings. Others for his world view of more 3rd world nation democratic principle sovereignty respecting and international cold war cooling peace and cooperation promoting. Millions of others were inspired by his encouragement of our nation's young people to look at the world around them in a healthy minded exciting adventure challenge way. Let us go into space! Let us get in better physical shape! Let us ask not what our country can do for us, but what "we" can do for our country, etc. etc, ! However, there was something else going on above and beyond those well known JFK inspiration traits that was creating an ever increasing JFK societal popularity appeal. Something much more visceral. I believe that a huge and growing number of Americans ( and people all over the world ) were actually falling in physical love with JFK and Jackie. Many even to sexual fantasy degrees. This physical love appeal transcended traditional political figure reality concepts. Photos of JFK and Jackie were being hung on the walls of perhaps millions of homes both here and abroad no matter how poor and humble. The poorest of African nations included! There has always been a societal attraction to glamourous celebrities. Their faces are pictured on national and international magazine and book covers, newspaper front pages, office and home walls, advertisements you name it. By JFK's third year in office, he and his wife's images were everywhere in that milieu. Here, Rome, Paris, London, Berlin, Athens, Madrid, Stockholm, Rio, Bombay, Tokyo, Hong Kong, ... Minsk? They were way more attractive and popular than any other American or international movie star or other political couples at that time. Liz and Dick, Frank and Ava, Bogart and Bacall, Monroe and whoever, Ingrid and Rossellini, Liz and Phillip ... sorry folks! Jack and Jackie were the "real stars" of the celebrity world ... by far! The biggest then and ever since. Look again at that JFK Santa Monica, California beach scene photo where the almost naked JFK is literally being physically attacked and groped by a mob of squealing wild eyed crazed with carnal lust women who had lost complete control of their senses! JFK had by this time entranced the majority of American women young and old into a blinding physical attraction lust. And Jackie was doing the same with American men. JFK was going to win the 1964 presidential election almost by sheer physical attraction appeal to women voters alone imo! At least as much or even more so than his political ideology stances. Women by the millions were going to vote to keep JFK in office just to keep his tanned, handsome and warmly attractive smile face in their everyday world. JFK was always smiling and it was the most physically attractive and healthy smile. Wide and warm with perfect teeth. Strong jaw. Smaller well shaped nose. Full head of healthy hair. When the beautiful smile and physical attraction adored JFK was removed and replaced with the beady eyed, hang dog, big nosed, elephant eared and balding LBJ...there was a deep emotional sexual fantasy loss let down in this country and around the world imo. Instantly gone was the beautiful people glamour and class. JFK and Jackie had transcended into an adoration status beyond politics. Their unprecedented physical beauty along with their other classy traits such as intelligence, education, upbringing, fashion sense and throw in JFK's more fair minded economic and humanistic rights caring world view made them world wide adored and revered icons. JFK's adversaries were aware of this unprecedented and ever growing JFK appeal and popularity and probably came to a self-interest protecting conclusion that JFK could never be defeated in a national election and that this national as well as worldwide adoration would even carry into RFK being voted in after JFK's finished terms. I believe the unprecedented JFK and Jackie physical beauty appeal to almost cult status phenomena is a story unto itself in the overall JFK and Jackie Kennedy historical legacy. One that to some real degree led JFK adversarial others to fear it's influence power being as much a threat to their own self-interests as any other JFK actions and policies. Pretty boy JFK had to go.

Gary Hart/Donna Rice. John Edwards/Rielly Hunter. Dennis Hastert/His Wrestling Team Boys. Newt Gingrich/Callista Bisek. Eliot Spitzer/ Entire Escort Service. David Petraeus/Paula Broadmore. Anthony Weiner/Anthony's Weiner. And on and on and on.

No, of course he wasn't in on the plot. Never ever considered such a ridiculous theory. However, I do think his aggressive negotiation for such a massive amount of money for the film from private parties and so soon after the event belied his supposed devastated grief state. I would think someone so devastated would have taken more time in giving up something so personally effecting. I would also have expected our own government to have confiscated the original film and spent much more time studying and evaluating it. The agencies took many cameras and photos away and took their time returning them.

Totally agree.

Paula Jones described Bill Clinton's phallus as like a "curved putter." I assume she meant putter as in golf putter.

"Blew the brains out" of the President? If that quote is accurate, how does one explain it's ridiculously obvious contradicting of the final "official autopsy report" listing JFK's removed brain weight as heavier than an average intact male brain? And one must wonder how someone as extremely emotionally devastated and even traumatized from his up close witnessing of a such a nightmarish brutal event ( as Zapruder was described in his granddaughter's memoir - locking himself in his office, crying, screaming, kicking doors, knocking over anything that moved and never wanting to talk about it ) could at the same time still trust themselves to be in a rationally calm business state of mind enough to decide so quickly what to do with the film ( sell it's rights to a national magazine ) and hard ball negotiate a gold mine high selling price equivalent to a 1.2 million dollars in today's dollar value? I would think someone who felt that the actual shooting of JFK resulting in his brains being blown out was the most horrible thing he had ever personally witnessed to the point of being traumatized for life by it, might be reasonably concerned that his live film of such should be given over to the government who would have much more control over it's security to save millions of others from being similarly traumatized by it's content?

The essence of Donald Trump. A natural born grifter. Our greatest grifter president to an almost immeasurable degree. Walker is blissfully oblivious.

Along with Jimmy Carter I don't think Obama ever strayed. The closest smiling Jimmy ever came was with that Oval Office Cheryl Tiegs picture from what I have read.

There is a famous picture of a dripping wet, bathing suit wearing JFK running from a dip in the ocean on the California Coast and totally chased and up close surrounded by dozens of mostly wild eyed women who all looked as if they wanted to rip his shorts off and ravage him. Kennedy has a smile on his face from the hungry lioness attack but with a slight look of fear that they were just a little too turned on and too close and he may not make it back to his place of safety without a fight. That almost naked JFK running for his life worked up female beach scene photo really exemplified the incredibly powerful raw carnal craving effect he had on women. I don't think LBJ in his big baggy swimming shorts and big hanging out gut ever had to worry about a worked up female attack like that.

Just in keeping with the Trump spirit of grifting every dollar you can in every situation you can.

Shooter "still at large?" I thought I read that Thane Eugene Cesar passed away?

Jimmy Carter's greatest White House sin guilt was keeping a framed photo of super model Cheryl Tiegs handy near the Oval Office bathroom door. Nixon had the sexual charisma charm of Ed Sullivan.

And does anyone seriously think at least some of the Dallas detail SS agents who went to the Cellar Club in the early morning hours of 11/22/1963 went there not to enjoy the sight of gorgeous topless waitresses but to just have a warm glass of milk and play rock/paper/scissors with each other ... and weren't married?

HA! RIGHT ON LIZ! What a massively embarrassing egg on her stern looking face ending to this cocky Trump fawning and idolizing, 2020 election denying LOSER!

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