Michael Clark
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Posts posted by Michael Clark
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2 hours ago, David Boylan said:
Steve,
I do not have any idea what AUTOBOAT is but I'll do some digging.
I have this doc with AUTOBOAT
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/jfk army record %23 194-10003-10411.pdf
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7 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:
Michael, here would be my thought on what to look for...given documents we have had and what Newman introduced at the Lancer conference last fall.
1) Anything that shows us who or even what section of the CIA station in Havana that Veciana contacted about assassinating Castro in 1960. That would answer one huge question.
2) The same for who at CIA he contacted in 1962. David's document confirms that those contacts were made so we know we are hunting for something real and that does confirm that Veciana was approaching the CIA - and being rejected. So any contact document on his approaches and subsequent rejection are key.
3) Anything that shows an effort by CIA to monitor Alpha 66, including sources (whether they be Army sources or CIA sources). We know that the administration was upset and embarrassed by the ongoing raids, we know that Alpha was actually more successful on its missions than JM/WAVE. The question is how much did CIA HQ know about the missions as compared to JM/WAVE and was somebody playing games. In SWHT I present info that JM/WAVE had advance knowledge of the missions, we should see if they provided that to HQ in their reports or somebody was sandbagging HQ and/or the SGA with a local agenda.
In reference to that, look for any reports going to J.C. King. We know that JM/WAVE and King approved the TILT mission without informing the SGA and RFK. Up to now that has been an exception, question is was it also happening with Alpha 66.
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Researchers, Authors and members. Post-up items for which document-divers can keep an eye out while searching through the document releases.
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34 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:
These documents round out the earlier picture we had, primarily again from Army Intelligence. Army Intel made early contact with Viciana, actually designating him as an informant, with the primary interest of obtaining info on Russian weapons and Russian military activities in Cuba form Alpha 66 missions. The maintained contact with Alpha 66 through late 61 and 62 and reported this to the CIA...one of the key questions on this is who they reported it to at CIA. Phillips was moving on after the Cuba project to Mexico City so one question is whether the reporting would have officially gone to him (of course in following all things Cuban Phillips would have known about Veciana and Alpha 66, the question is how much through official reports). Chronology of his new assignment vs. these reports is very important.
We also know that JM/WAVE itself had a source reporting from inside on Alpha 66 during 1962 and were aware of their missions but did nothing to interdict them (contrary to Kennedy Admin policy). We know that from reports of Victor Hernandez and actual remarks from David Morales in JMWAVE documents.
And we have documents showing that in the spring of 1963, the military side of the SGA proposed using Alpha 66 for more "bang and boom" against Cuba and the CIA recommended against it, based on the opinion that it would be virtually impossible to control them.
Aside from all this, we have the Veciana/Bishop story that suggest Phillips was helping Alpha 66 organize, getting them PR and encouraging them to attack Russian targets. The notes about PR in the first document David posted are interested in that regard...as is the fact that there were "sources" were providing Army intel info on Alpha 66 missions....the question is who those sources are? At first it read as if it might be Veciana himself but a closer read suggests otherwise.
So....David, your remark was that CIA was working directly with Veciana or Alpha 66 first and then passed him on to the Army....I.m missing that but I'd love to see a direct CIA/informant/asset relationship to him in 61/62 and what office that would have been through. If its in these new documents help me see that because its a point that really needs to be cleared up, especially with the work Newman is currently doing on Veciana.
I would like to see a wish list thread of things we for which we should keep our eyes open. A specific thread for that would be good. Having something specific to look for would make the reading more interesting.
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35 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:
I know something about Thomas Devine. He was DUBRINY 1 in the meetings between DeMohrenschildt, Clemard Charles, Dorothe Matlack (ACSI), and the still unidentified DUBRINY 2, who I think might have been George Bush. Devine and Bush were closely linked.
Thanks Paul, I really appreciate your input. I thought I was smelling Bush in this. It occurred to me that it could have been Ray Herbert, in this document. I had read, today, they Devine and Bush were quite close, yet we don't see Bush's name anywhere; or, at least, I have not. Ray Herbert, as far as I can tell, is unattested outside of this doc and the one provided by Joan Mellon.
@Paul Brancato , also, how solid is your DUBRINY-1 identification? That crypt is not listed at all on the MFF list. If you have a solid, or even conjectural ID on that, I am sure that MFF would like to add it.
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I am trying to Identify a ""Ray Herbert" mentioned on P. 105 of the the subject document.
I have found this document form "The Great Game in Cuba" by Joan Mellon... According to the language used, Mr Herbert appears to be a pseudonym.
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23 hours ago, Michael Clark said:
I wanted to note that this document is essentially 5 documents, covering 5 events and situations: and is of added interest due to this juxtapositioning.
P.1-5 re: Cuba
P. 6 to P.94. covers, in detail, CIA interest in assassinating Former Congo President Lumumba.
P.95 to 109 Discusses to efforts to overthrow Trujillo.
P.110 ( The Schneider Report) Discusses efforts towards a coup in Chile.
P.142 Re: discussions about Vietnamese president Diem's Presidency
The last two pages are pages separated from the earlier section on The Congo. It states that Dulles and Bissell did, indeed, authorize the assassination of Lumumba.
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Ray Herbert.
P.105 talks of a Ray Herbert; "Deputy Chief of the Western Hemisphere Division of CIA, who frequently acted a liaison with the State Department...."
He is spoken of as working closely with Thomas Devine.
Does anyone know any more about this guy? I spent a little time looking before I decided to start this thread.
I will add what I find in the associated Research Thread.
Cheers,
Michael
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From the documents release thread, I shared the following Document with this post:
"A damning document in the role of the CIA in the assassination of Lumumba.
QJWIN
WIROGUE
Very frank comments by Dulles and Harvey,
Arnold Silver
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/157-10005-10297.pdf "
Whereas I keep referring back to this document and feel the need to ask questions or bring things from this document to the attention of forum members, I decided to start a new thread with the subject being this document.
Rather than continuously bump this thread with every finding, curiosity, or question I will work on this inquiry on the research thread, linked below, which will reside in the JFK Research Form; then I will only reply to this thread when I have a question, something of larger interest or if I reach some milestone. Indeed, I may not be able to avoid taking the time to transcribe it in it's entirety (gulp).
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Alpha 66 run by U.S. Army
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
A few more
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/jfk army record %23 194-10003-10388.pdf
Veciana requesting Army assistance
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/jfk army record %23 194-10003-10408.pdf
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/jfk army record %23 194-10003-10413.pdf
As seen in an above document, AUDITION seems to be related to AUTOBOAT...
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/jfk army record %23 194-10003-10417.pdf
Handwritten. I haven’t read this yet
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/jfk army record %23 194-10003-10419.pdf