W. Niederhut

I read that joke at the Democratic Underground today.

Rob, Do you know the source for Prouty's claim here? This reminds me of the story where Prouty was accused of "lying" for saying that E. Howard Hunt told him that Butterfield was working for the CIA in the Nixon White House. I happen to believe that Prouty was telling the truth about what Hunt told him-- which, obviously, doesn't mean that HUNT was telling the truth!

Never thought I'd see the day when life in Fargo would be even creepier than it is in the Coen brothers' screenplays. The first season of Fargo was set in Bemidji, Minnesota-- where Trump recently complimented his Nordic rally goers on their "good genes." Sadly, their good Nordic genes did not protect them from a COVID outbreak in the wake of Trump's rally.

Steve, This isn't Trump's fault. The reason it was so cold in Omaha is that there were so many thermometers. 🤥

And Wisconsin-- including their popular college football team-- is now a COVID disaster area, even as Trump, incredibly, continues to hold rallies there without masks or social distancing. Talk about a cult drinking the Kool Aid... It was a shocker to see this Trump death cult stuff happening in Tulsa last summer. Now it's simply beyond belief.

Joe, GHWB once said, "If the American people knew the truth about what we Bushes have done, we'd be hunted down in the streets and lynched."

So sorry to hear about this, Mark. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

The way I view Prouty is somewhat consistent with the ARRB statement above. He was a USAF witness and participant in global CIA ops from the 50s through December of 1963. But he was never a member of Allen Dulles's "secret team," and was not privy to the secret machinations of the Dulles cabal. Nor was Prouty a direct participant in all (many?) of the highest level meetings of the Joint Chiefs. (Curiously, he has very little to say about USAF General Curtis LeMay!) So, many of his theories about JFK's assassination were based on educated guesses, from his vantage point as the Joint Chief's liaison to the CIA. In contrast, his observations about US ops in Vietnam were based on direct participant observation. As for the claims on mcadams.edu about Prouty being anti-Semitic, I don't recall reading about that in the two Prouty books I read. I could be mistaken, but I thought his comments about a "high cabal" were references to Wall Street, and to the Wall Street lawyers (Dulles, et.al.) who created the CIA.

Can someone please tell me how to put a member on "ignore" on this forum? I'm, generally, a tolerant, open-minded person who believes in a free, civil exchange of ideas, but I've finally had enough of Wheeler's nonsense. Anyone who really believes that it is fair and reasonable for Mitch McConnell and the slim GOP Senate majority to confirm Amy Coney Barrett to the SCOTUS eight days before an election, after blocking Merrick Garland's confirmation for 300 days, on the grounds that 2016 was an election year, is not someone I care to converse with. This is not an occasion for gloating. It's, frankly, a travesty.

In truth, I can hardly stand to watch, or listen to, Donald Trump. The guy is toxic. I forced myself to sit down and watch the two Trump-Biden debates but, for mental health reasons, I probably should have just watched Alec Baldwin and Jim Carrey reprise them on SNL... 🤥

My wife and I watched 60 Minutes last night, and I turned to her at one point and said, "This is like a de ja vu of 2016-- Trump is repeating his same old bogus sales gimmicks." Trump is like a used car salesman selling a lemon. He's the lemon. 1) He, again, claims to have a "terrific healthcare plan"-- including a television prop of a large binder which was given to Lesley Stahl with a claim that it was Trump's healthcare plan. 2) He, again, claims that he will create "the greatest economy" ever, etc. (See Jennifer Rubin's op-ed debunking Trump's "great economy myth" in today's WaPo.*) 3) He, again, claims that he will release his taxes "after the audit." 4) He, again, smears his opponent with fabricated allegations. *Trump’s mythical economic success and the end of supply-side tax cuts www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/26/trumps-mythical-economic-success-end-supply-side-tax-cuts/

Chris, The Secret Team and JFK-- The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy are both fascinating primary source historical narratives. For example, I learned many things from Prouty -- who wrote a lot of the material in the "Pentagon Papers" -- that I didn't know about the CIA's war in Vietnam (prior to 11/22/63.) It's important to remember that, unlike most writers in the JFKA researcher community, Prouty wasn't merely a historian writing about JFK and the Deep State. He was PART of that history-- a primary source for historians to study.

This has to be some kind of record. Wheeler now has 487 posts on this thread. That's a truckload of Trumpaganda.

No surprise that Prouty-- like Garrison, Oliver Stone, et.al.-- has been subjected to various attacks on his credibility. What does surprise me is that so few people have read Prouty's own, detailed account of his observations as the Joint Chiefs liaison to the CIA during JFK's presidency. People seem to be looking at every source except Prouty's own primary source material to try to interpret whether he knew whereof he spoke.

I made the mistake of watching the first Borat movie with my wife and her old-fashioned parents, while visiting them for a weekend in the mountains. It was a family disaster. (I had read a positive NYT review of Borat that week, which described Sacha Baron Cohen as a latter day Charlie Chaplin, etc., and I rented the movie at a Block Buster video store.) Anyway, Cohen just delivered the one-liner of the year in his press release in support of Rudy Giuliani. He said, "If anyone tries to defame Mr. Giuliani, he will, no doubt, reach into his legal briefs and whip out his subpoenas..."

Based on his own detailed writings, Prouty was perplexed about the abrupt reversal of the NSAM263 policy that took place in Honolulu during JFK's fateful trip to Dallas. Having co-authored the McNamara/ Taylor Report, he knew that JFK had fully resolved to get out of Vietnam. So, his inquiry into the assassination was prompted by the curious reversal of NSAM263, and also by ancillary observations about an apparent black op/ psy op-- e.g., the early news wires (and photos) identifying Oswald as a lone assassin, the bizarre security lapses in Dealey Plaza, and the photos of his long-time colleague, Ed Lansdale, in Dealey Plaza.

Kirk, Good summary, and your key phrase was the one about Trump's firehose of falsehoods going "over the heads" of his base. The people who think Trump and Pence did well in those debates are the ones who don't know that they were lying incessantly. It's like a Dunning-Kruger Effect by proxy.

Trump's concept of a "conflict of interest" is when taxpayer funds are spent in a way that conflicts with Trump's own financial and political interests.

Absolutely. Trump and Atlas have been implicitly promoting the herd immunity policy without clarifying the implications. IMO, the worst Trump double-speak incident in the third debate occurred when Kirsten Welker asked Trump about calling Dr. Fauci a "disaster" and an "idiot," and Trump replied that he "respected" Dr. Fauci. I was waiting for Biden to say, "So, President Trump respects Dr. Fauci, by telling everyone that Fauci is a disaster and an idiot? Makes a lot of sense."

Larry, Do you have an opinion about Prouty's self-professed role in co-authoring (with General Victor Krulak) the September 1963 McNamara/Taylor Report that JFK used in issuing NSAM263? Prouty also claimed that he was involved in reviewing intel related to the Honolulu conference on Vietnam at the time he was given the November 1963 assignment to escort some VIPs to Antarctica. And he was intimately familiar with the CIA's history at Saigon Station (the Strategic Hamlet Program, etc.) that had created the debacle in Vietnam which JFK was trying to end. From what I have read, the focus here on Prouty's ancillary comments about Dallas security lapses is misplaced. It misses the central point of his thesis about JFK's assassination, the CIA, and Vietnam-- i.e., that JFK had clearly decided in October of 1963 to get out of Vietnam, (NSAM263) and that his policy decision was mysteriously reversed by the NSAM273 draft written in Honolulu on November 21, 1963 and signed by LBJ on 11/25/63 at the behest of McGeorge Bundy.

Mark and Rob, I owe both of you guys an apology for my somewhat hostile comments on this thread. I can't delete them, so I must simply apologize for them. Your criticisms of Col. Prouty kind of hit a nerve for me. Thinking it over, I realize now that I have put the Colonel on a pedestal of sorts. The first book about the JFK assassination that I ever read (just a few years ago) was Prouty's, JFK-- The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy. It shook me up. I discovered the book on Amazon, after watching the movie JFK, and learning that Donald Sutherland's character, Mr. X, was largely based on Prouty. Regarding Prouty's motives for speaking out about JFK's murder, my impression is that money and notoriety had nothing to do with it. For one thing, he was a bank president and a retired colonel. I think the guy was a good man and a true patriot who was deeply troubled about what he perceived as a rogue "Secret Team" operating beyond the purview of our elected government officials. It bothered me a few years ago when I read some crap on-line (at McAdams.edu, I think) impugning Prouty's reputation by claiming that he was only a pilot/"chauffeur" who was making stuff up about the CIA, etc. That stuff wasn't consistent at all with his detailed descriptions of his career.

Yet another example of right wing agent provocateurs fomenting violence that was blamed on the BLM protesters. Remember our discussions here of the Minneapolis "Umbrella Man" last May? IMO, the M$M has not given enough attention to this important subject in 2020. Incidentally, I read this morning about a recent Boogaloo Boys type plot to kidnap Ohio Governor DeWine. We can add that one to the recent Storm Trooper plots to kidnap Michigan Governor Whitmer and the mayor of Wichita, Kansas.

Mark, I'm not in the habit of debating with someone about a book that they haven't even read. I could list hundreds of important, accurate observations that Prouty documented in his work-- about everything from Lansdale's black ops in the Phillippines and Vietnam, to the drafting of the McNamara/Taylor Report, NSAM263 and its bizarre abnegation by the 11/21/63 NSAM 273 draft, psy op hallmarks in the international media framing Oswald as the lone assassin on 11/22/63, obvious botched security protocols in Dealey Plaza, etc., etc. Now, answer the question I asked you first. What "disinformation" did Prouty propagate, in your opinion?

This post is not about the plague, but it is about the disastrous plague year here in Colorado. Rocky Mountain National Park is now on fire, and they have evacuated the towns of Grand Lake and Estes Park, on the west and east sides of RMNP. I didn't get the alert in time yesterday to drive up to Estes Park to retrieve things from my in-law's cabin. The National Forests along the entire Front Range from Denver to Fort Collins were closed to the public earlier this week. It's an unprecedented disaster out here. The only good news is that a cold front just moved into the state and it's supposed to snow Sunday, with temperatures around zero in the high country.

Read the book. Prouty's accurate claims about JFK's assassination are innumerable, and very detailed. IMO, Prouty is one of the main heroes of the JFKA Truth movement-- along with Garrison and Oliver Stone. (From what I have read, I would also put James DiEugenio in that same category.) Now, tell us what "disinformation" you think Prouty propagated.