Karl Hilliard

I believe Priscilla Johnson McMillan assisted in some 'evidence' location also. Anyway-- I had run across this document which had made it's way into the archives... Notice that the letter was addressed to 'Esteemed citizen Harvey Oswald'. In the Russian life, children's middle names are designated [invariably] after their father's first name. For example... Marina Nikolayevna Oswald-Porter (Prusakova) Russian: Марина Николаевна Освальд Портер (Прусакова) Birthdate: July 17, 1941 Birthplace: Severodvinsk, Gorod Severodvinsk, Arkhangelsk Oblast, Russia Immediate Family: Daughter of Nikolay Prusakov Widow of Lee Harvey Oswald That the letter addresses Harvey and not Lee just might be a fluke. It is remarkable how all these documents managed to come to light.

Regarding that...Tippit worked as security for the Stevens Theater on Sundays. The Stevens Park Shopping Center was close to his home. [CE 2985] He did work at the TT "years ago" [she said] Back to the Texas Theater...I wonder what ever happened to the manager. From the testimony of Julia Postal-- That's it. Whatever happened to Callahan? He just disappeared? And [again] who was the projectionist? What did he see? Also, Postal's testimony is full of contradictions. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/postal.htm

Something I have always wondered about...Was city and county [sheriff] broadcasts simultaneously audible? I mean why weren't the transcripts all in one? Also there was something called a "hotline". Where is the transcript of that? Because I would like to know how an entire regiment of cops managed to converge instantaneously on a theater based on the word of someone that a suspicious guy sneaked in there. Whether it was one Oswald or two or eight of them, it seems as though it was all pre-arranged.

After re-reading Mr Applin's testimony I note that he states 'the rear of the theater' and that could very well mean in the back where people sit facing the screen. Unfortunately, the council [Mr Ball] did not obtain clarification on which doorway Applin had used. He should have asked--Did you go out the alley? http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/applin.htm Also the theater diagram adds to the confusion... http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/utils/getfile/collection/po-arm/id/10936/filename/10935.pdfpage/page/2 Because if Oswald was sitting in the rear [like Applin said]--the chart shows the 'rear' to be back by the front door also. I saw that ROKC thread. If they mean well, it seems like it's in a mean spirited way. If Oswald was buying popcorn at 1:15 [say] how did he get to the Texas Theater?---and in less than 15 minutes?

Actually... the public announcement that President Kennedy had deceased wasn't made until 1:35 PM CST.

The Recollections of Jesse Curry---[reproduced from my archives] Given months to prepare for his testimony, Chief Curry did rather poorly... Quote Mr. RANKIN....When did you learn of the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald? Mr. CURRY - While I was out at Parkland Hospital. Mr. RANKIN - Do you know about what time that was, the day? Mr. CURRY - It was on the 22d and the best I recall it was around 1 o'clock or maybe a little after 1 o'clock. Mr. RANKIN - How did that come to your attention? Mr. CURRY - Some of my officers came to me and said they had arrested a suspect. in the shooting of our Officer Tippit. Mr. RANKIN - What else did they say? Mr. CURRY - They also told me a little later, I believe, that he was a suspect also in the assassination of the President. Mr. RANKIN - What did you do then? Mr. CURRY - I didn't do anything at the time. The President had only just been pronounced dead at 1:00 Quote Mr. CURRY - And I returned to the city hall. Mr. DULLES - Did I understand correctly, how long were you at Love Field after the plane of the President left? Mr. CURRY - As I recall it was approximately an hour. Mr. DULLES - That is what I thought. Mr. CURRY - We waited there until the casket bearing the President, and then the cars bearing Mrs. Kennedy arrived, and it was, I would judge an hour perhaps. Mr. RANKIN - Then what did you do? Mr. CURRY - I returned to my office at city hall. Mr. RANKIN - Did you do anything about Lee Harvey Oswald at that time? Mr. CURRY - No Quote Mr. CURRY - No. As I went into the city hall it was overrun with the news media. Mr. RANKIN - What did you do about that? Mr. CURRY - I didn't do anything. Quote Mr. RANKIN - Did anyone of the police department give them permission [TV news cameras etc] to do this? Mr. CURRY - I noticed--well, I don't know who gave them permission because I wasn't there. When I returned they were up there. Mr. RANKIN - Did you inquire about whether permission had been given? Mr. CURRY - No; I didn't. Quote Mr. RANKIN - Did you have anything to do with the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald? Mr. CURRY - No, sir; I did not. I was in the office once or twice while he was being interrogated but I never asked him any question myself. Mr. RANKIN - Do you know who did? Mr. CURRY - Captain Fritz principally interrogated him, I believe. Mr. RANKIN - Was that his responsibility? Mr. CURRY - Yes; it was. There were several people in the office. It seems to me we were violating every principle of interrogation, the method by which we had to interrogate. Mr. RANKIN - Will you explain to the Commission what you mean by that? Mr. CURRY - Ordinarily an interrogator in interrogating a suspect will have him in a quiet room alone or perhaps with one person there. Mr. RANKIN - Is that your regular practice? Mr. CURRY - That is the regular practice. Mr. RANKIN - Tell us how this was done? Mr. CURRY - This we had representatives from the Secret Service, we had representatives from the FBI, we had representatives from the Ranger Force, and they were--and then one or two detectives from the homicide bureau. This was, well, it was just against all principles of good interrogation practice. Mr. RANKIN - By representatives can you tell us how many were from each of these agencies that you describe? Mr. CURRY - I can't be sure. I recall I believe two from the FBI, one or two, Inspector Kelley was there from Secret Service, and I believe another one of his men was there. There was one, I recall seeing one man from the Rangers. I don't recall who he was. I just remember now that there was one. Captain Fritz, and one or two of his detectives--this was in a small office. Mr. RANKIN - Did you do anything about this when you found out there were so many, did you give any instructions about it? Mr. CURRY - No; I didn't. So from what can be gathered here is that on Nov 22 1963-- Chief of Dallas Police Jesse Edward Curry just basically stood around and did nothing. He was the only prime official that did not take part in interrogating his own suspect. He allowed his office to be run amuck with reporters. He didn't know who was in and out of his own department. He didn't even order a tape recording so that he could examine an interview with a guy he accused of killing a patrolman and the President of the United States.

On the sculpture...Chevrolets is spelled Chevorlets ----There should be quite a discount coming there.

Bump this thread..I think it is remarkable how someone would think that an employee would show up for work [thinking also that this employee had also smuggled in a rifle] and then first thing--immediately sits down to read a newspaper😄 That's great. David Von Pein shrugs off the Givens lies by proposing that Charles just must have simply forgot to mention seeing the sixth floor Oswald in his Nov 22 statement 🤣 Hysterical I gather that regarding realization that this suggestion was totally absurd...Von Pein resorted to changing the topic to other [Oswald must have done it] arguments.

Pat Speer's thread is titled 'Givens down to one lie" ...I guess that is why I didn't find that one because I did a 'Charles Givens' search and 350 pages of Charles came up from Whitman to Manson etc. Anyway, the link there is ... http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/18746-givens-down-to-one-lie/?tab=comments#comment-245800

Noticed at the end of the video...Givens had changed his time from WR testimony-- that he saw Oswald on the 6th floor *'at a quarter till 12' to- saw him just a couple of minutes after 12. * https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0180a.htm

Is it safe to say that to all intents and purposes...Charles Givens vanished completely after these revelations? Can we wonder just how much he was paid to change his story?

A friend in another forum suggested that I post this article as I searched and couldn't find one quite like it--- The Warren Report chronicled that Charles Givens stated he saw Oswald on the 6th floor somewhere near the 'sniper nest' around 12 noon on that Friday when JFK came through town in a motorcade. Givens did 'testify' [if you want to call it that].. in a closed room session with David Belin-- a sniveling criminal of a lawyer because of his complaisant agenda to frame Lee Oswald. There were no Commissioners present..only the court reporter. Here is what really happened...On Saturday Nov 23 [the day after the assassination] Givens made a statement to the FBI-- https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=334 Notice the very last sentence..Givens said he last saw Oswald at around 11:50 in the first floor break room reading a newspaper. That account was hidden from the Commissioners, the press and the public and that weasel Belin knew it. In an affidavit also to the FBI..Bonnie Ray Williams stated that he had gone back up to the sixth floor also at approx 12 noon to eat his lunch but seeing no one else there after a few minutes went down to the fifth floor and ate lunch with a couple of other employees. Williams did not say he saw Givens nor did he report Oswald being on the 6th floor. None of the employees saw anyone using the stairs or elevators at this time. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=335 Subsequently... In a statement dated Feb 13 1964 one Lt Jack Revill a Dallas police detective revealed that Givens had a previous drug charge and that "Givens would change his story for money". This criminal revelation was also ignored by the press and the authorities....... https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11133#relPageId=304 Three other employees also claimed that Lee Oswald was on the first floor around noon on that Friday. Charles Givens lied and stated in his obviously rehearsed interview that he forgot his cigarettes on the sixth floor and went back up to get them from his jacket and lo, there was Oswald. Here is where I catch the lie right in that contrived misrepresentation of truth.... Quote Mr. BELIN. Is that what you call the domino room? Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir. ~ Mr. BELIN. You put your lunch there? Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. Did you wear a jacket to work that day? Mr. GIVENS. I wore a raincoat, I believe. It was misting that morning. Mr. BELIN. Did you hang up your coat in that room, too? Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. Did you know Lee Harvey Oswald? Mr. GIVENS. Well, I knew of him. Mr. BELIN. When did you see Lee Harvey Oswald next? Mr. GIVENS. Next? Mr. BELIN. Yes. Mr. GIVENS. Well, it was about a quarter till 12, we were on our way downstairs, and we passed him, and he was standing at the gate on the fifth floor. I came downstairs, and I discovered I left my cigarettes in my jacket pocket upstairs, and I took the elevator back upstairs to get my jacket with my cigarettes in it. When I got back upstairs, he was on the sixth floor in that vicinity, coming from that way. Givens said he wore a raincoat and hung it up in the break room. So, how is it that he had cigarettes in some jacket that he didn't wear? Notice the distance he placed between himself and a fellow worker whom he called Lee by name.

She could use the money?

Not at all. You can be here. No one is telling you to leave. However if you would choose to finish this thread..I guess it should be all yours and then you can roll it up and twirl on it for all I care. Have a good one.

Dear members____Mr Payette is obviously quite delusional. Trolls usually are. It is not his thread. Threads here belong to the forum...it became everybody's thread the instant it was posted. Am I not correct?

I don't wish to hijack this most nostalgic thread..However somewhat related to what Mr Payette mentioned -- "The route had been published some 72 hours before the assassination, yet most of the TSBD employees who testified were unaware until the morning of the assassination that JFK would be passing right in front of their building." Impulsively, I skipped school to ride downtown to see the parade. What is seldom described is the racket that surrounded the motorcade --all the motorcycle cops [dozens] revving their bikes with really loud sirens going and people screaming like at a football game. The Wilson building-- HL Green cafeteria window above the word Green--that's where I was. Hundreds of open windows all over the streets...Kennedy was a sitting duck. Pops of rifles would have hardly been heard.

So..it looks like you have become quite a legend in your own mind.

" I truly don't care in any deep sense who killed JFK." Then why are you here? Or is it just to be sensibly shallow? "Conspiracy game" and "cartoon" doesn't reflect a very serious position but from many, that is to be expected. I have no theories. I have a few ideas about what happened and BTW I saw that motorcade in Dallas just minutes before the ambush in 1963. It doesn't take much research to see that the authorities... from the police department on up and from LBJ/Hoover on down...using the media as a footstool---lied? ---That is no theory. The Warren Commission claimed that truth was their only client but in honesty it actually existed to show the public that Oswald was the only assassin... so stated by their own documents.

Did anyone ever interview the projectionist? Also.... An Overlooked Texas Theater Witness By Bill Drenas Claims that he clobbered Oswald in the head with his shotgun-- http://www.billdrenas.com/articles/OverlookedTheaterWitness.html

If it hasn't been mentioned....Johnny Brewer stated to Vince Bugliosi [the trial film] that he saw Oswald sneak into the theater from his position in front of the shoe store...or at least from some distance. The shoe store is a bridal shop now [213 W Jefferson] on the same side of the block. I will attempt to link a google map showing that the doors and ticket booth of the theater are so deeply inset that such an observation is ludicrous. https://www.google.com/maps/place/213+W+Jefferson+Blvd,+Dallas,+TX+75208/@32.7431917,-96.8260671,3a,60.3y,51.8h,84.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1si6u_xuJUITbpvS11vexEbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x864e998e305a7679:0x3853c98ef9ce45e!8m2!3d32.743286!4d-96.825207?hl=en

No biggie there... In '50s Texas, dead people voted for LBJ to congress and to the senate.

Hi Wade... Your threads and research stuff are all very interesting. However....it is all very off topic to the Bill Decker thread. Why not create a separate thread utilizing these subjects?

...consisting of a ballistics forensic urologist did it not?

Anyone....where is this 'green book' mentioned in the WC/HSCA documents?

This much is certain...In their eagerness to portray Oswald as a "deranged and dangerous man", the Commission staff paraded these Russian community people through with no other objective in mind. They were not witnesses to anything violent or the authorities would have surely been notified. If it hasn't been mentioned before, I have notebooked a text from the testimony of Robert Oswald. Very strange...... Quote Mr. JENNER. For the purpose of the record, would you read the first three words and the last three words of the page to which you are making reference? Mr. OSWALD. "Sunday, January 13, 1964. Jim advised that"---- Mr. JENNER. That is on the first line? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. The last line is "told her this story." Mr. JENNER. All right. Proceed, sir. Mr. OSWALD. We had a discussion---- Mr. McKENZIE. Pardon me just a second. For the sake of the record, let me state this. A copy of this diary has been furnished to the Commission, photostated by the Commission, and Mr. Jenner has it in front of him. Mr. JENNER. I will qualify it, Mr. Chief Justice. But I didn't want to take Your Honor's time at the moment, because I do want to cover another subject while you are still here. Proceed, sir. Mr. OSWALD. What prompted my question as to whether or not Lee was ill while he was in Russia was the followup of a conversation that we had in relation to an incident that occurred some time in the year of 1963. I am not able to place the date of that purported incident. I was advised at that time in reference to this incident that on one day, that Lee was going to shoot at or shoot Mr. Richard M. Nixon, that Marina N. Oswald locked Lee Harvey Oswald in the bathroom for the entire day. Who could believe this? Robert [supposedly] barely knew that woman. Quote Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir, in reference to Mr. Nixon? Mr. JENNER. Yes. Now, you have alluded to Mr. Nixon in testifying with respect to your conversation on the subject of illness with Marina. Mr. Chief Justice, if I may, I will read the entry on that particular date, and will wish to question the witness about it. "Sunday, January 13, 1964. Jim advised that Marina told him that Lee wanted to"--and there are a series of five dashes, followed by the letters, "NMR, also, but Marina locked Lee in the bathroom all day. This was confirmed later this day by Marina. On the way to the cemetery." Is that in your handwriting? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; it is. Mr. JENNER. Would you please supply, if suppliable, what is indicated by the three dashes preceding the letters "NMR" and identify what the letters "NMR" refer to? Mr. OSWALD. If I may, sir, correct you there. There are five dashes there. And the word "shoot" was my intention to blank there. And the initials "NMR" stands for Richard M. Nixon Fantastic! I think NMR meant Not My Rear-end Quote Mr. McKENZIE. In her own words, Robert, try to reconstruct exactly what was said to you from the time you left Jim Martin's house until you went--in Dallas, Tex., until you arrived in Fort Worth, Tex., at the cemetery. Mr. OSWALD. On this subject, to the best of my knowledge, Marina said to me, "Robert, Lee also wanted to shoot Mr. Nixon." And, at that time, I believe I gave her the statement that "Yes, Jim told me about this when we were sitting in the den that afternoon." Mr. JENNER. You say you gave her the statement--you mean that is what you said to her? Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. And she made her statement, referring to this incident of Mr. Nixon. And then she related---- Mr. JENNER. What did she say? Mr. OSWALD. I might say this, sir. In practically the same words that Mr. Martin had told me, because he had reportedly received the conversation from Marina, within her limited English--it rang a bell to the extent that the words were close to being the same to the way Mr. Martin had related it to me. It was a very brief statement on her behalf that Lee was going to shoot Mr. Richard M. Nixon, and that she, Marina N. Oswald, locked Lee in the bathroom all day. The same Lee who supposedly bullied her and beat her black and blue? And poor Marina managed to slam him into the bathroom ..lock him in and Lee sat helpless and content in there all day? I contend that both the brother and the wife were lying their cans off. Lee [so accused] was going to gun down Edwin Walker...Richard Nixon...Abraham Lincoln...& anybody and everybody else that got in his way.