Robert Montenegro
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Posts posted by Robert Montenegro
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31 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:
I have a different point of view on Trump.
No, not that he belongs in public office. He does not.
But he was the only president since JFK (and possibly Carter) not aligned with, and answering to institutional Washington and the party establishments (run by billionaire elites and other globalist-interventionists).
Trump came to DC without a single ally in party establishments or institutions, and left on a rail the same way.
The intel agencies did not even hide their attempts to prevent Trump's election, or to torpedo him after he assumed office. Russiagate was a hoax, and Jan. 6 possibly a manipulated event. Certainly the investigation into Jan. 6 devolved into a political TB show and kangaroo court.
Trump put tariffs on China imports, and talked about leaving NATO and S Korea. Shutting down the southern border and the cheap labor that comes in. All that is heresy.
None of this makes Trump a nice guy. I hope the 'Phants can find a batter candidate for 2024. Trump is awful--but also a bonsai tree in a redwood forest of anti-democratic forces.
As usual, just IMHO.
I have just four names (and believe me, I can keep on going into the hundreds) for you that destroys the entire argument that Trump is some lone wolf:
- Felix Mikhailovich Sheferovsky
He has been a political hatchet man, and business partner of Trump going back to 1988, and at least since 1991, has been an asset to FBI, CIA, and Defense Intelligence Agency, and has bizarre connections to the Russian Mafia and Osama Bin Laden.
- Adnan Khashoggi
He has been a political hatchet man for Trump back to 1986, and was a cornerstone to the funding of the Mujahedeen during Operation CYCLONE, via the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, from 1980 to 1990.
- Roger Jason Stone
He has been a "dirty-tricks" con-man for every Republican President since Nixon, and a political fixer for Trump at least since 2003.
- Roy Marcus Cohn
The central force behind "Tail-Gunner Joe" McCarthy's destructive communist witch-hunts and powerhouse of the far-right in the United States at least since 1953, and a political fixer to Trump going back to 1971.
No, Mr. Cole, at the expense of derailing this entire post I created, I must emphatically disagree with your position about Trump.
He is no lone wolf.
He is the establishment, and so representational of everything that is vile and wicked about it.
Of course my opinion of Biden is lower than crocodile farts.
And in terms of the JFK Records Release Act, Trump and Biden are both criminal co-conspirators in direct violation of the United Sates Congress.
Many they both reap what that have sowed...
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8 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:
Who did you see?
😅
It was day two of "Viva Pomona!" music fest at the The Glass House.
Sort of an indie/garage rock/punk rock/trip-hop fusion music fest.
It was freaking rad!
These were the acts that I caught:
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1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:
Whether that then becomes a Nazi plot JFKA could be a matter of semantics.
It would be nice if the Puppet-Dictator-in-Chief release all the JFK records, that might shine a light on the topic.
Agreed, it is a semantic matter when it comes to the murder of President Kennedy.
Fascism took over in 1963, and it must be reconciled with, no matter how inconvenient the truth may be, no matter how many golden-calves like COL. Prouty have to be pushed to the burn-bin of history.
I would rather it be known that COL. Prouty was in on the plot (not that I am suggesting he was) to murder Kennedy, than to not know it.
As far a puppets occupying the office of the President, United States of America, we have experienced since 22 November 1963, nothing but non-representational, elitist transient hacks like LBJ, Ford, Carter, Clinton, Obama, & Biden—CIA affiliated pukes like Nixon, Reagan, & Herbert Walker Bush—and two outright fascist goons, "Dubya" Bush & Trump.
And for sixty years, both political party's nominees, the do-nothing Democrat Presidents and burn-it-all-down Republicans Presidents, have engaged in a conspiracy of silence.
What motivates that conspiracy of silence—that is true power.
And that power is not for the people or of the people, in the United States.
And I spit on COL. Prouty for not telling the whole truth, because revealed at least three times in his life that he knew a helluva lot more about the awful truth surrounding Operation BLOODSTONE and the Gehlen Organization than he certainly made publicly known.
That is a limited hangout.
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3 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:
Robert,
What you said in your lead post on this thread is that you believed that Prouty knew who "the real murderers of President Kennedy were," and may have "taken that information to his grave" -- implying that Prouty was, at least, complicit in a cover up. That's quite defamatory.
But, if true, why would Prouty have gone to such lengths to debunk the WCR narrative (in his contacts with Garrison and Oliver Stone?)
The theory makes no sense.
Once again, I am only quoting COL. Prouty's first-hand insights into Operation BLOODSTONE, where he makes quite a few references to his operational, personal knowledge of those commando teams.
Not to mention from 1955 to 1963, he is the commander of the CIA's focal-point network—an officer in-charge supporting special operations, providing arms, equipment and cover for said commando networks.
May I ask who you think was participating in Operation GLADIO, or anyone of the CIA-sponsored coups that took place while COL. Prouty was arming & supplying CIA covert ops from 1955 to 1963?
The Vienna Boys Choir?
Or fascist functionaries of the Holocaust.
Once again, as far as defamatory content is concerned, why don't you bring that up with any one of the persons on this post who have accused me of sloth, unfounded theories, or slander?
That is defamation, as I am being spoken to directly. Not speculation based on actual interviews that COL. Prouty authorized for print.
Once again, I have only utilized direct quotes from COL. Prouty, where he conveys personal knowledge of Operation BLOOTSTONE.
I ask again, does anyone have anything revelatory to add to the theorem I have presented here?
If not, please refrain from attacking me on a personal level.
Thank you.
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31 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:
Robert,
You never answered any of the key questions I posted in response to your lead posts here this morning.
You have simply rephrased and repeated your illogical, dubious theses about Prouty.
1) You have accused Prouty of some sort of unacknowledged complicity in the JFK assassination op-- apparently with the Operation Paper Clip Nazis he was tasked by his superiors with transporting to the U.S. after WWII.
Unanswered question for Montenegro #1
1) If Prouty had been involved in the JFK assassination op, why would he have contacted investigators like Jim Garrison (and Oliver Stone) to debunk the WCR/Lone Nut narrative? That makes no sense.
Unanswered question for Montenegro #2
2) What relationship/involvement did Skorzeny and the CIA Operation Paper Clip Nazis have with the CIA/Anti-Castro Cubans who have been implicated in the JFK assassination op by the research of Larry Hancock, et.al.?
1. I did not say COL. Prouty was involved with Operation PAPERCLIP—COL. Prouty said he was involved in Operation BLOODSTONE.
2. I never claimed anywhere in this post that COL. Prouty was involved in the murder of President Kennedy—I said he was involved in a limited hangout that may have concerned his own, unpublished, service record, based off his own comments he made over the years.
3. I would start with Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo, co-founder of the anti-Castro Cuban terrorist organization Alpha-66, his claims that he was a US double agent for something called the "Directoire Iberique de Liberation," and that he worked with herr Skorzeny and move on from there—I will stress once again, I am not talking about Operation PAPERCLIP, I am talking about Operation BLOODSTONE.
Do your own homework, your own thinking, draw your own conclusions.
But we must, as researchers, have all of the facts, or at least have to nerve to ask questions when we identify a hidden variable.
And Operation BLOOSTONE and COL. Prouty's own admissions that he partook in it is enough for me to start asking questions.
Now if you don't mind, I have a concert to attend.
Gotta get my monthly mosh-pit on and punk out!
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53 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:
RM--
You are doing very interesting and important work.
I had no idea the extent to which the CIA rescued Nazis from justice.
I have little difficulty the hired Nazis then told the CIA whatever it wanted to hear---that aspect of human intel has not changed and never will.
However, the actual perps of the JFK could have been another and much smaller group, possibly more along the lines of Cuban-CIA assets.
Thank you for the kind remarks, nice to see a little civility on this forum.
As far as books are concerned with the topic of Nazi war criminals fleeing into the arms of the US special operations community, I would like to point out three that I reference in my own research constantly:
- "The Old Boys: The American Elite and the Origins of the CIA," by Burton Hersh
- "Blowback: America's Recruitment of Nazis and Its Destructive Impact on Our Domestic and Foreign Policy," by Christopher Simpson
- "The Darkest Sides of Politics, I: Postwar Fascism, Covert Operations, and Terrorism," By Jeffrey M. Bale
Of course there are literally tens of thousands of documents in the CIA's own archive related to the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act:
There is a reason James Jesus Angleton was simultaneously the Chief of Counterintelligence for the Central Intelligence Agency from 1954 to 1975 and CIA Chief of the Israeli Desk.
It is because Angleton was feeding the elements of Israeli intelligence that were legitimately hunting functionaries of the Holocaust false data, in order to keep those Nazi mass-murders fighting the Soviets!
Of course, before Angleton was Chief of counterintelligence, feeding the Israelis false narratives concerning Nazi war criminals they were looking for, Angleton was helping set-up fascist émigré commando networks as Chief of Staff A of the CIA's Office of Special Operations.
Émigré commando networks that failed miserably, because Angleton's counterpart in British Intelligence was a Soviet mole:
Harold Adrian Russell "Kim" Philby.
Of course, it wasn't because Philby was a communist.
MI6 operative Philby was a member of an organization called "World Federation for the Relief of the Victims of German Fascism."
Philby hated the Nazis and hated Western Intelligence for using them.
That why I scoff at NSA officer Maj. John M. Newman and his book on the Angleton's Soviet mole hunt.
Angleton was the man selling out his WWII combat veteran countrymen, one protected Nazi at a time...
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6 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:
Prouty was instructed to assemble planes and travel to Syria to pick up a large group of released POWs from Roumania. Intermingled with these men, as Prouty observed, were German agents, also being moved out under American cover. He discussed this experience several times in his writing and interviews. I cannot see how the Syrian experience or his later recollection of such amounts to an admission to a direct role in “repurposing and rearming WWII fascist émigré networks”.
As far as I can tell, Prouty never mentioned an RJ Smith when talking of his wartime experiences. Prouty was a VIP pilot in North Africa in 1943-45 - on what basis do you determine he was instead directly involved In the fascist relocation programs other than the Syrian experience?
Prouty’s job as military liaison to the CIA necessarily put him in contact with programs utilizing these fascist emigre and stay-behind networks and that is what he is talking about when quoted in Simpson’s book.That does not mean Prouty was personally involved or responsible for the programs themselves - in fact they were long up and running when Prouty assumed the liaison position in the mid-1950s. I don’t see how this position leads to the claim: “COL. Prouty was front-and-center in the utilization of Nazi émigrés within US Army Special Forces”
Then read the book by Christopher Simpson called, “Blowback: America's Recruitment of Nazis and Its Destructive Impact on Our Domestic and Foreign Policy”
Prouty is literally quoted throughout the book about WWII fascist émigré commando networks he supported as senior aide to the United States Air Force Chief of Staff, Gen. Hoyt Sanford Vandenberg, who was formerly the Director of Central Intelligence.
Please, read Christopher Simpson's interview with COL. Prouty, in it's entirety...
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3 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:
Prouty was instructed to assemble planes and travel to Syria to pick up a large group of released POWs from Roumania. Intermingled with these men, as Prouty observed, were German agents, also being moved out under American cover. He discussed this experience several times in his writing and interviews. I cannot see how the Syrian experience or his later recollection of such amounts to an admission to a direct role in “repurposing and rearming WWII fascist émigré networks”.
As far as I can tell, Prouty never mentioned an RJ Smith when talking of his wartime experiences. Prouty was a VIP pilot in North Africa in 1943-45 - on what basis do you determine he was instead directly involved In the fascist relocation programs other than the Syrian experience?
Prouty’s job as military liaison to the CIA necessarily put him in contact with programs utilizing these fascist emigre and stay-behind networks and that is what he is talking about when quoted in Simpson’s book.That does not mean Prouty was personally involved or responsible for the programs themselves - in fact they were long up and running when Prouty assumed the liaison position in the mid-1950s. I don’t see how this position leads to the claim: “COL. Prouty was front-and-center in the utilization of Nazi émigrés within US Army Special Forces”
Once again, I suggest you go back and read "Understanding Special Operations and their impact on the Vietnam War Era: 1989 Interview with L. Fletcher Prouty Colonel USAF (Retired)" by David T. Ratcliffe.
The following is COL. Prouty talking about some of the missions he was involved with as a member of Air Transport Command, United States Army Air Corps:
QUOTE —
"...The interesting thing about that was, once we got into the air, I realized that some of my passengers were not these American pilots. They were men from the Balkans. In fact, we were talking, and then later on I learned they were people who had been selected by the OSS in the Balkans for special evacuation before the Soviet armies arrived. Because they were Nazi intelligence officers, and (for some reason) our own OSS wanted to get them out of there. This puzzled us a little bit, but we weren't in the political business so we didn't ask too many questions. But I've done a lot of thinking since then, especially since the publication of this book Blowback and others, that shows we exfiltrated thousands of ex-Nazis out of Germany for various reasons after WWII..."
— END QUOTE.
Here is a link to the information I am presenting:
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/USO/
Read it in it's entirety, please...
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18 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:
Once this sinks in at Ed forum, I'll provide additional research related to Col. Prouty's controversial association with the Willis Carto Liberty Lobby and how those associations reveal the likelihood of ongoing containment.
Well, Leslie, I've been thru the ringer here, you wanna give a brother a break and tap in?
I would like to point out to everyone else who is not Leslie, that this post is called:
"USAF COL. Prouty, Operation BLOODSTONE, SS-Obersturmbannführer Skorzeny, & the murder of President Kennedy..."
This post is not called "The Article I Wrote About the Bad Shake Prouty Got from ARRB..."
This post is not called "Let's Talk About the Secret Service Being Worthy of A Military Firing Squad..."
This post is not called "Let's Defend the Legacy of Our Golden-Calf, COL. Prouty..."
This post is not called "How to Snap Back with Non-Sequitur & Win Augments with Diversionary Tactics..."
This post is not called "I'm Not A Real Researcher, & I have Nothing Constructive to Add to this Post, What's for Lunch..."
I want a real discourse with the evidence that I presented.
So be educated, free thinkers, and discuss the evidence I presented.
If that cannot happen, then I guess we are all unworthy of even mentioning President Kennedy's name, and it's a good thing he was murdered, because we, as human beings that did not perish in a thermonuclear catastrophe, do not even deserve the man's legacy.
And that is what President Kennedy did three times during his thousand days in office!
He prevented a global holocaust three times—once when the Joint Chiefs sought his approval for first-strike attacks on hundreds of millions of innocent human beings in the USSR & China, once during the Checkpoint Charlie Incident, and once during the Missile Crisis—and I'd like to know why he had to do that, and what global forces of fascism were at play, and I think COL. Prouty was being diversionary with his service record...
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1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:
It was not a false narrative at all Robert.
There are at least four witnesses who I referred to in my article on this issue.
And they all support what Fletcher was saying. This includes a note that he had from someone up in San Antonio.
There should have been some kind of MI support, since as Palamara has shown, this was a common enough occurrence. And that was provable but the ARRB and Wray chose not to accept it. But VInce has produced pictures of it in more than one location for Kennedy.
This was a chimera that the ARRB fell for. And in that article, and in other references I note there, the offer was made. And people were surprised that it was not taken up. One of the witnesses was right in the room that weekend when the recriminations were being made up in San Antonio as to why they were not there.
Its very unbecoming of you, in the light of this evidence, to say that somehow what Fletcher said was false. And to say that in such absolute and rather stark and ugly terms.
The idea that the whole Secret Service failure that day was a matter of lack of sleep and late hours at the Cellar, this is, to be kind, a rather incomplete chronicle that VInce Palamara would disagree with in the harshest terms. As he, and Horne, have shown that the route was changed, the formations of the cycles were changed, and at least one man was called off the rear of the limo. Why anyone would leave all that out is really kind of puzzling.
Whether the supplement from San Antonio would have prevented what happened there from occurring is something we will probably never know. But there is no doubt that it was part of that failure, and that the ARRB tried to conceal it and smear Prouty over it.
In any case, this information about the Secret Service is a gargantuan divergence from the original purpose of this post, which has nothing to do with the USSS protection teams surrounding the President on 22 November 1963, but COL. Prouty's admissions to repurposing and rearming WWII fascist émigré networks and grafting them to US military intelligence.
I stress again, I am attempting to uncover not the consistencies of what COL. Prouty said, but the glaring omissions in his special operations service record that he, on only three occasions, by my count, set surface to the light.
And man, did those admissions stink to high-heaven, especially since we now have strong indications who the "...mechanics...", as COL. Prouty dubbed them, really were.
Not anti-Castro operatives with bazookas.
Not mafia goons with switchblades.
Not a bunch of toothless, hick, good-ol'-boys with their daddy's flint-lock.
It was fascist émigré commandos, from within and without, the US special operations community, and their handlers.
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38 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:
A cabal of the CIA, the JCS and the Wall Street tycoons is a limited hangout?
JFK was getting out of Vietnam is a limited hangout?
The Secret Service failed to call in support when it was available, that is a limited hangout?
Please Paul.
Mr. Brancato was directly referencing my theorem, Mr. DiEugenio, not smearing COL. Prouty.
No need to go on the attack.
And yes, COL. Prouty did effectively turn the world on to the fact that President Kennedy was reversing course on the covert wars in Indochina and the CIA puppet régime in Vietnam (a covert war COL. Prouty was arming all the way back to 1955).
But I stress that COL. Prouty's narrative surrounding the United States Secret Service was an outright lie.
That, as I stated before in this post, was proven to be a false narrative pushed by COL. Prouty, confirmed by interviews conducted by Dan Hardway in his United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations interviews and Lt. Col. Timothy Wray in his Assassination Records Review Board interviews.
The real crime is that the USSS agents in the motorcade were sleep deprived and hungover from drinking all night at a nightclub called "The Cellar" and then used that as an excuse for their inaction in the motorcade.
The only USSS agent that did his job that day was Clinton J. Hill, and he was a late add-on to the motorcade protection, assigned to protect the First Lady, Jacqueline Kennedy.
The USSS agents public intoxication and inaction is the real crime.
Not that some phantom request for military support was denied, as COL. Prouty claims.
Plus, that narrative is a silly canard, because if the military was involved in murdering President Kennedy (which fascist elements of it were, right up to members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff), how would the addition of military security be effective?!
No, the fact of the matter is, no matter how many security teams could have been assigned to the motorcade, they would have been rendered neutral some way.
Kind of like SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny's literal job description was in the closing hours of WWII—commander of the Nazi German Military Section D, or Militarrisches Amt-D, which was the Nazi intelligence section tasked with infiltration operations against United States military intelligence.
Herr Skorzeny did his job well.
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9 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:
You are referring to CR Smith (Cyrus Rowlett Smith).
Other than the war effort, Smith had a lifelong career with American Airlines and was a major figure in the development of passenger airline travel and considered “one of the most influential persons in aviation history.” Prouty described him as “an absolutely magnificent person.”
Your repeated reference to an "RJ Smith" does not inspire confidence in wherever you are going with this.
Maj. Gen. Cyrus Rowlett "C.R." Smith was the deputy commander of the United States Army Air Corps, Air Transport Command.
Maj. Gen. Robert James "J.R." Smith was commander of the United States Army Air Corps, African Division, Air Transport Command.
R.J. Smith served under C.R. Smith.
Two different people.
No cigar.
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24 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:
Robert:
Anyone of any objectivity can see what I meant by the Torbitt Document.
When you have to go through as many sideways and oblique associations as you did above, then to me, that is so strained it has little or no meaning. Except it reveals your almost inexplicable desperation to smear Prouty.
Oliver Stone's attackers, like the late Robert Sam Anson and Epstein, also used this angle to get to Oliver. And people on this forum, like Mike Griffith, have joined in that angle of attack. Tim Wray of the ARRB did the same.
I have never found that to be of any material use to either appraising the movie JFK, or shedding light on either the Kennedy assassination or Prouty's ideas about it. Or his contributions to the film.
I have addressed those issues in the article i posted above.
Personally Robert, I have always liked you and I think you do some good work. Because of that, how you ever got on this Prouty angle is kind of puzzling to me.
My dear Mr. DiEugenio, I am not trying to smear COL. Prouty.
I consider him a brave man, who blew the whistle on many state-crimes committed by the intelligence services of the Western orbit during the Cold War, and I consider him a patriot in his own, sad, repentive way.
However, the specter he remained silent about until the final years of his life, fascist war criminals within the ranks of organizations that he oversaw as Chief of Special Operations, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the far-right platforms he utilized to address that specter, that has to be addressed in a civil fashion.
And that is what I am doing.
You are a hero of mine, since I first learned of the JFK assassination narrative flaws when I was a junior in high school.
But COL. Prouty's covert action support networks were transplanted directly from Nazi war criminals and ranking functionaries of the Holocaust.
That is what I am addressing on this post.
This isn't an attack on COL. Prouty, it is a direct accounting.
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27 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:
Oh no, now we get a word salad right out of something like the Torbitt Document.
Prouty's record is there for all to see at Len Osanic's web site.
I used much of it for my article on Epstein.
Its very strange to me when people on this forum side with the likes of Epstein.
I just want to post that again, the hitherto formally-unflappable, James DiEugenio, comparing my work to the steaming pile of dog excrement that is the Torbitt Document & Edward Jay Epstein, a literal shill for CIA Counterintelligence Chief James Jesus Angleton.
To quote James Donald from the closing scene of "The Bridge on the River Kwai":
MADNESS!
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29 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:
Oh no, now we get a word salad right out of something like the Torbitt Document.
Prouty's record is there for all to see at Len Osanic's web site.
I used much of it for my article on Epstein.
Its very strange to me when people on this forum side with the likes of Epstein.
The Torbitt Document is a pile of junk.
Where do you get off comparing all of the direct source quotes that I use from COL. Prouty to describe his service record (which is not complete on Len Osanic's site, or else it would have the information I posted here), to the junk that Edward Jay Epstein put out?!
Edward Epstein was a literal shill for CIA Counterintelligence Chief James Jesus Angleton!
Well, here it is folks, for all the world to see, the brilliant James DiEugenio, breaking with Education Forum rules, standards of etiquette, & all semblance of civilized decorum, by comparing me to a CIA Counterintelligence mouth-piece like Epstein.
Your true colors are on display to-day, Mr. DiEugenio.
I think what you meant to say about my post here to-day is:
I guess you can say, when it comes to the Nazis and their relationship with golden-calf COL. Prouty, Mr. DiEugenio did NOT-SEE anything...
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15 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:
Prouty actually talked about this mission back in the mid nineties at a conference in Washington.
Whew, some limited hangout.
I have read those transcripts and they are almost verbatim the slivers of information COL. Prouty fed to David T. Ratcliffe.
Whew, some saving of face there, Mr. DiEugenio.
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57 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:
You are confused.
Prouty was assigned a mission to arrange aircraft and participate in flying them to a location in Syria where they would meet with a contingent of Allied POWs released from Roumania, who would then be flown to safety. Intermingled with the POWs were men who, it gradually became apparent, were German military personnel who were also being relocated. Prouty did not know of these men before the mission. He did not draw up the mission. He arranged a fleet of aircraft under orders and had them flown to the location he was instructed. How that becomes being “front and centre” to Nazi emigre networks I have no idea.
The Nazis were an OSS project. Prouty was working for the Air Transport Command.
You know what, yeah, you got me.
Damn, of course, COL. Prouty was working for US Army Air Corps, Air Transport Command at the end of World War II.
Dang, why didn't I read that properly?!
Shoot.
I guess I'll go cook a baloney sandwich.
Wait a tick, Mr. Carter, put that baloney sandwich on hold!
Who was COL. Prouty's immediate superior officer?
Oh, yeah, COL. Prouty's immediate superior officer from 1943 to 1945 was United States Army Air Corps Maj. Gen. Robert James Smith, commander of the United States Army Air Corps, African Division, Air Transport Command!
Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was general traffic manager, American Airways, executive vice president, Braniff Airways Inc., president, Pioneer Airlines, and director, Continental Air Lines Inc., I wonder if any of those companies leased aircraft to CIA narco-trafficking proprietary airlines Civil Air Transport AKA Air America (hint, hint, they all did).
Plus, Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was director First National Bank of Dallas and director & chairman, Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, I wonder if any of those banking entities had anything to do with the machinations surrounding the murder of President Kennedy (hint, hint, they both did).
Plus, Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was member, Advisory Committee, Export-Import Bank of Washington, I wonder if that banking institution had anything to do with laundering tons of narco-dollars from CIA fronts (hint, hint, it sure did)
Plus, Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was director of Dallas Chamber of Commerce & director of Dallas Council On World Affairs, I wonder if he served with a rogues gallery of suspects in the Kennedy assassination (hint, hint, he sure did).
Maj. Gen. R.J. Smith was also a commander of Operation PAPERCLIP, I wonder if he served with a rogues gallery of Nazi war criminals and technicians (hint, hint, he sure did).
But I guess your right, Mr. Carter, COL. Prouty only worked for and was lifelong friends with United States Army Air Corps Maj. Gen. Robert James Smith, commander of the United States Army Air Corps, African Division, Air Transport Command.
You got me...
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22 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:
You have seriously confused programs that Prouty came to have knowledge of, with programs that Prouty was directly involved with.
In the late 1940s Prouty was working academically - writing textbooks and teaching courses.
His work as liaison for the CIA did not begin until the mid-1950s.
That's a big negative on your part, and a fair amount of deflective semantics.
I suggest you go back and read "Understanding Special Operations and their impact on the Vietnam War Era: 1989 Interview with L. Fletcher Prouty Colonel USAF (Retired)" by David T. Ratcliffe.
The following is COL. Prouty talking about some of the missions he was involved with as a member of Air Transport Command, United States Army Air Corps:
QUOTE —
"...The interesting thing about that was, once we got into the air, I realized that some of my passengers were not these American pilots. They were men from the Balkans. In fact, we were talking, and then later on I learned they were people who had been selected by the OSS in the Balkans for special evacuation before the Soviet armies arrived. Because they were Nazi intelligence officers, and (for some reason) our own OSS wanted to get them out of there. This puzzled us a little bit, but we weren't in the political business so we didn't ask too many questions. But I've done a lot of thinking since then, especially since the publication of this book Blowback and others, that shows we exfiltrated thousands of ex-Nazis out of Germany for various reasons after WWII..."
— END QUOTE.
And that was just one mission COL. Prouty was involved with in 1944, ferrying Nazi intelligence agents out of Turkey, the Balkans, and Ukraine.
Like I said, COL. Prouty was front-and-center to those Nazi émigré espionage networks.
Once again, I am not attacking COL. Prouty, but reality needs to set in—the man was not innocent of protecting, training, arming and utilizing fascist war criminals...
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1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:
Robert,
Would you be so kind as to answer my questions (above?)
For example, if Prouty had been involved in a nefarious Nazi plot to murder JFK, why would he have contacted Jim Garrison (and Oliver Stone) in order to debunk the WCR Lone Nut narrative, and educate people about LBJ's reversal of JFK's NSAM263 policy in Vietnam (which Prouty had worked on, with General Krulak?)
Your theory makes no sense.
P.S. Technically, I'm Dr. Niederhut. Mr. Niederhut was my father.
Dr. Niederhut,
I will once again stress my theorem—I am postulating COL. Prouty was engaged in a limited hangout.
COL. Prouty helped create the paramilitary networks that were utilized by SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny against President Kennedy—in congruent fashion, COL. Prouty covered up the mechanical aspects of President Kennedy's murder to the effect of throwing educated minds (like yourself) off the right track.
I did not say COL. Prouty was a control officer for the assassination, I said he engaged in psy-warfare to cover-up his own structural guilt, which would have lead to other covert crimes he was involved in.
That's not to say that COL. Prouty did not offer spectacular insights regarding the day-to-day functions of the US special operations community.
And yes, he did offer exclusive insights to how elements of the Joint Chiefs of Staff were moving against President Kennedy's formal orders (as were the bulk of the Southern Democrats & elitist-establishment Republicans on the East coast at the time).
I must ask a counter-narrative, to your question, however.
What exactly do you believe COL. Prouty did for the Department of Defense?
Pin merit badges on boy scouts?
Or was he the literal "...Chief of Special Operations, Joint Chiefs of Staff..." tasked with being the "...Focal Point officer for contacts between the CIA and the Department of Defense on matters pertaining to the military support of the Special Operations of that Agency..." (COL. Prouty's words, not mine) whose job it was to provide special forces teams with, uhm, what was it again?
COL. Prouty, what was that thing you did:
QUOTE —
"...The Eastern European and Russian émigré groups we had picked up from the Germans were the center of this; they were the personnel,” according to the retired colonel. “The CIA was to prepare these forces in peacetime; stockpile weapons, radios, and Jeeps for them to use; and keep them ready in the event of war. A lot of this equipment came from military surplus..."
— END QUOTE.
Oh, I see, COL. Prouty, thank you for clearing that up, wouldn't want to defame your memory by falsely claiming that you armed, aided and abetted Nazi force-multiplication networks.
Nazi force-multiplication networks that acted as the eyes, ears and loaded-fists of the Joint Chiefs of Staff!
COL. Prouty was the organizing military officer of the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations, an organization whose president in 1963 was Yaroslav Semenovych Stetsko, commander of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists-Bandera (OUN-B), a WWII-era Nazi paramilitary army that engaged in genocidal mass-murder operations in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia.
Yaroslav Stetsko was a direct subordinate to SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny, providing OUN-B cadre for Skorzeny's Ukrainian émigré special forces units, "Bataillon Ukrainische Gruppe Nachtigall" and "Battalion Ukrainische Gruppe Roland."
The commander of the Nachtigall Battalion, which oversaw the execution of the the Lvov Civilian Massacre of 1941, a Skorzeny created special forces death-squad was Theodor Oberländer—a eugenics-minded mass-murdering Schweinhund—who later founded the All-German Bloc/League of Expellees and Deprived of Rights, which acted as an intelligence front to shield Nazi war criminals from international war tribunals—many of whom were serving in the Gehlen Organization, or COL. Prouty's brainchild Operation BLOODSTONE!
Still think it is slander on my part, Mr. Niederhut?
Allow me to quote another authorized interview with COL. Prouty, this time given to researcher Stephen Dorril, the founding editor of the respected journal Lobster Magazine and a lecturer at the University of Hudderfield, for his book, "MI6: Inside the Covert World of Her Majesty's Secret Intelligence Service."
On page 225, from the chapter titled, "Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations," we find the startling admission from COL. Prouty:
QUOTE —
"...According to Fletcher Prouty, who was responsible for US Air Force air support for CIA missions overseas, a series of assassinations was undertaken by 'the best commercial hit men you ever heard of.' Known as 'mechanics,' the were 'Ukrainians, mainly, Eastern Europeans, Greeks, and some Scotsmen. I don't know how the Scotsmen got in there, but there they were.' Prouty asserts that teams of 'mechanics' were used in cross-border infiltration operations to rescue agents and in the murders of alleged Soviet agents. During 1947, a joint British/US émigré espionage network infiltrated with agents organized by Soviet and Czech Intelligence was 'liquidated' as part of Operation RUSTY. To mask the deaths, the killings were attributed to factional violence among rival Ukrainian groups..."
— END QUOTE.
Seems to me, according to COL. Prouty himself, used fascist war criminals to conduct "stay-behind" operations deep into Soviet territory (you know, that pesky Soviet territory where the Nazis slaughtered twenty million men, women and children).
Not only that, but he used those fascist war-criminals to assassinate numerous targeted individuals (you know, anti-fascist Soviet veterans of WWII) on behalf of the Gehlen Organization, or as it was known by US Army intelligence in 1946, Operation RUSTY.
Still think it is slander on my part, Mr. Niederhut, to literally use COL. Prouty's own admissions in their proper historical perspective?
COL. Prouty armed and utilized émigré espionage networks of Nazi war criminals for illegal commando operations and assassinations, by his own admission.
Émigré espionage networks created by Sicherheitsdienst des Reichsführers-SS, Ausland-SD, Amt VI-S commander SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny.
P.S. Technically, I'm United States Army Staff Sergeant Montenegro, retired. United States Marine Corps Sergeant Montenegro was my father.
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44 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:
Robert appears to be the latest Prouty critic around here (along with Michael Griffith, Mark Stevens, Keyvan Sharder, et.al.) who has never studied or understood Prouty's work.
Mr. Knight, I hate to trouble you again, but I am forced by Mr. Niederhut to remind you that you personally gave me advisement that I could rejoin this forum as long as I recognized the rules and remained civil.
I mean, Mr. Niederhut has accused me of slander, poor research and sloth, when I literally provided first-hand sources, which include COL. Prouty's actual spoken words that he authorized to be committed to a published book.
Mr. Niederhut has also engaged in personal slander, as he states that I have, "...never studied or understood Prouty's work..." when I have read every one of his books, listened to all of his public orations, and even accessed hundreds of CIA files that cross-reference COL. Prouty's claims.
I would stress, Mr. Knight that Mr. Niederhut has engaged in personal attacks against me, and I am requesting that formal action be taken to prevent this behavior that is in direct violation of the rules and regulations of this forum.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Robert Ward Montenegro,
United States Army combat veteran, and avid reader of COL. Prouty's work.
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43 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:
Geez... Not this John McAdams/Michael Griffith Liberty Lobby BS again... 🙄
We need Len Osanic's expertise to straighten out the pseudo-historical nonsense here.
Robert Montenegro's illogical, half-baked "theory" here about Prouty possibly being involved in the JFK assassination conspiracy is contradicted by a vast array of historical facts. And it raises a number of obvious questions. (See below.)
Robert appears to be the latest Prouty critic around here (along with Michael Griffith, Mark Stevens, Keyvan Sharder, et.al.) who has never studied or understood Prouty's work.
(Naturally, Michael Griffith and the U.S. government-affiliated Prouty defamers are more than happen to jump on Montenegro's latest Prouty defamation bandwagon.)
Et tu, Paul Brancato?
1) What was Prouty's position in the post-WWII military hierarchy, and his relationship with the U.S. military and Allen Dulles era CIA command structures?
Hint: He never worked on Dulles' "Secret Team." He was a USAF man for the duration of his government career-- ending in December of 1963.
During his career, Prouty was primarily tasked with organizing transportation and air support for military and CIA ops, including Operation Paper Clip. The CIA black ops people (including Lansdale at Saigon Station) relied on Prouty and the U.S. military for transportation and supplies.
2) Does anyone who has studied Prouty's work seriously believe that Prouty was involved in formulating CIA plans and black ops-- e.g., Operation Paperclip, Lansdale's ops at Saigon Station, or the JFK assassination-- as opposed to assisting the CIA with transportation and supplies for their ops?
In the case of the JFK assassination, Prouty had no conceivable involvement in the Dealey Plaza murder op. He was in Antarctica, and only gradually tried to solve the puzzle of the evident CIA black op and psy op to murder JFK, reverse NSAM263, and orchestrate the Lone Nut alibi in the M$M.
3) If Prouty was involved in the JFK murder plot, why was he a key figure in exposing Deep State involvement in the plot-- and helping Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone debunk the WCR Lone Nut narrative? Wouldn't he have left the WCR/Lone Nut narrative prevail?
4) Finally, given what Larry Hancock, et.al. have uncovered about CIA/Anti-Castro Cuban involvement in the JFK assassination, where is this Otto Skorzeny/Paper Clip stuff supposed to fit into the historical framework of Dealey Plaza ops?
All of your information is flawed because I quote COL. Prouty directly.
Go ahead and attack my factual journalist integrity, Mr. Niederhut, but COL. Prouty's own words speak for themselves:
Once again, Mr. Niederhut, utilizing Christopher Simpson’s “Blowback: America's Recruitment of Nazis and Its Destructive Impact on Our Domestic and Foreign Policy,” on pages 182 to 184, we can clearly see that COL. Prouty was front-and-center in the utilization of Nazi émigrés within US Army Special Forces:
QUOTE —
"...The process of integrating ex-Nazi émigré groups into U.S. nuclear operations may be traced to at least early 1947, when General Hoyt Vandenberg became the first Chief of Staff of the newly independent US Air Force. Vandenberg had commanded the 9th Air Force in Europe during World War II, then had been tapped to head the Central Intelligence Group, the immediate predecessor to the CIA, in 1946. Among the general's responsibilities at the air force was the development of written plans describing strategies and tactics for the use of America's new nuclear weapons in the event of a war. “Vandenberg had a clear idea about just how he thought a nuclear war was going to be fought,” argues retired Colonel Fletcher Prouty, who was a senior aide to the Air Force Chief of Staff in the 1940s and later top liaison man between the Pentagon and the CIA. “[He] knew that if there was a nuclear exchange in those days—and we were talking about atomic bombs, now, not H-bombs—you would destroy the communications and lifeblood of a country, but the country would still exist. It would just be rubble. People would be wandering around wanting to know who was boss and where the food was coming from and so forth, but the country would still be there." Therefore the US thinking went, “we must begin [to create independent communication centers inside the Soviet Union] after the nuclear blast and begin to pull it together for our ends.”
The army, air force, and CIA all began competing programs to prepare for the post nuclear battlefield. This included the creation of what eventually came to be called the Special Forces—better known today as the Green Berets—in the army and the air resupply and communication wings in the air force. The job of these units, Prouty explains, was to set up anti-Communist political leaders backed up by guerrilla armies inside the USSR and Eastern Europe in the wake of an atomic war, capture political power in strategic sections of the country, choke off any remaining communist resistance, and ensure that the Red Army could not regroup for a counterattack. “Somebody had to bring order back into the country, and before the Communists could do it we were going to come flying in there and do it,” Prouty says.
“The Eastern European and Russian émigré groups we had picked up from the Germans were the center of this; they were the personnel,” according to the retired colonel. “The CIA was to prepare these forces in peacetime; stockpile weapons, radios, and Jeeps for them to use; and keep them ready in the event of war. A lot of this equipment came from military surplus. The CIA was also supposed to have some contacts [inside the USSR] worked out ahead of time for use when we got there, and that was also the job of the émigré groups on the agency payroll. In the meantime, they [the émigré troops] were useful for espionage or covert action." Both the army and the CIA laid claim to the authority to control guerrilla foot soldiers after war had actually been declared.
A recently declassified top secret document confirms Prouty’s assertion that the émigré armies enjoyed an important role in the eyes of nuclear planners of the time. The 1949 study begins with a summary of what was then the current atomic strategy. Seventy atomic bombs, along with an unspecified amount of conventional explosives, were slated to be dropped from long-range planes on selected Soviet targets over a thirty-day period. The impact of the attack had to be carefully calculated, according to the JCS memo: about 40 percent of the Soviets’ industrial capacity would be destroyed, including most of the militarily crucial petroleum industry.
But this, the chiefs contended, would not guarantee victory. The thirty-day atomic assault, the Pentagon concluded with considerable understatement, “might stimulate resentment against the United States” among the people of the USSR, thus increasing their will to fight. A major program of political warfare following the attack was therefore essential, the JCS determined. In fact, the effectiveness of the atomic attack itself was “dependent upon adequacy and promptness of [the] associated military and psychological operations….Failing prompt and effective exploitation, the opportunity would be lost and subsequent Soviet psychological reactions would adversely affect the accomplishment of Allied objectives.”
The commitment of five wings of B-29 bombers to the émigré guerrilla army project is a practical measure of importance that the Pentagon attached to it. The B-29 was the largest, most sophisticated, and most expensive heavy bomber in the U.S. inventory at the time. According to Prouty, General Vandenberg originally conceived of the air force's role in psychological and guerrilla warfare as a third branch of his service, equal, at least in administrative status, to the Strategic Air Command and the Tactical Air Command. Special Forces visionaries in the army such as General McClure had similar plans for that service as well.
The Vlasov Army guerrilla training proposals earlier initiated by Keenan, Thayer, and Lindsay fitted neatly into the military's nuclear strike force plans..."
— END QUOTE.
Still wish to attack my integrity and research skills, Mr. Niederhut?
Perhaps you should bring up your gripe with COL. Prouty's ghost?
I know a few Navajo medicine men, so if you have any questions for COL. Prouty, go ahead and direct message them to me and I'll forward them to COL. Prouty's spirit, promptly...
...if not, then get off my back and quit calling my work "...illogical, half-baked..." and a "...defamation bandwagon..."
As for that last comment, I have the entire legal staff of the Department of Veteran's Affairs on retainer if you want to accuse me of defamation.
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2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:
Robert - that is absolutely incredible research.
Michael Griffith - it seems to me that both Robert and Leslie are buttressing your oft stated case against Prouty, whose latter day associations with Liberty Lobby etc fit perfectly with Prouty’s early military career. I’m not sure what your intention is here, but if it’s to derail this thread you certainly won’t succeed. If I read between the lines a bit it seems like you are dismissing Robert’s post by saying that anything Prouty said to Christopher Simpson is likely to be untrue. But you cannot argue with Prouty’s well placed career. He was in a perfect position to help establish fascist and Nazi incorporation into the US special forces framework. What say you?Thank you Paul, for the kind words of support.
Unfortunately, Mr. Griffith may succeed in derailing this thread, simply because COL. Prouty was so effective in his psy-warfare campaign.
I see post after post on this forum of educated persons, either denying everything COL. Pouty said because of his far-right connections or supporting it whole-heartedly because Prouty's stories were picked up by film director Oliver Stone, with his COL. Prouty caricature "Mr. X" in the brilliant work of art JFK, released in 1991.
Of course I will stress, director Stone's highly entertaining 1991 opus is art at it's best, not a documentary.
Instead of either going all-in with COL. Prouty's deceptive narratives, or trashing everything he said because of his Willis Carto connections, one should examine the basic fundamental ideological push COL. Prouty was fomenting—that of an anti-United States government narrative.
And who swallowed this anti-government narrative?
The Patriot Conspiracy (PATCON) far-right elements of the American public, who were heavily infiltrated by US intelligence informants.
PATCON informants that were targeting anti-fascist activists and feeding that information to the FBI...
Interesting isn't it, that COL. Prouty attacked the legacy of the 112th Military Intelligence Group, 4th US Army Operations Group, when their one and only task was to infiltrate and study far-right, anti-government threats to the United States Army!
Examine Dan Hardway's notes from his United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations interviews, and tell me I'm wrong:
The literal mission of the 112th Military Intelligence Group, 4th US Army Operations Group, as described to Dan Hardway is as follows:
QUOTE—
"...To contribute to the operations of 4th US Army through the detection of treason, sedition, subversive activity, and disaffection, and the detection, prevention or neutralization of espionage and sabotage within or directed against the 4th US Army and the area of it's jurisdiction..."
—END QUOTE.
Aha!
That is why 112th MIG is the domestic military intelligence network that is custodian to Lee Harvey Oswald's military records!
Mr. Oswald was acting in the capacity of a COINTELPRO-style informant, a Patriot Conspiracy (PATCON) informant, if you will, infiltrating both left and right-wing organizations that were considered counter to the United States government.
The right-wing organizations were involved in violations of the Neutrality Acts of the 1930s (primarily right-wing organizations that were involved in gunrunning, narcoterrorism, and illegal hit-and-run raids against Cuba), which explains Mr. Oswald's reporting to James Patrick Hosty Jr., who was literally tasked by FBI HQ to run long-range, studies and observations against right-wing organizations.
Some of these right-wing organizations that Mr. Oswald infiltrated and reported on were being sponsored by Mafia and CIA elements at JMWAVE (like Legión Extranjera Anticomunista del Caribe, Cuban Revolutionary Council, Cuban Democratic Revolutionary Front, Friends of Democratic Cuba, Directorio Revolucionario Estudiantil, etc.).
And all of the right-wing, anti-Castro paramilitary organizations that Mr. Oswald infiltrated were supported by, you guessed it—USAF COL. Leroy Fletcher Prouty, Chief of Special Operations, Joint Chiefs of Staff, who was the CIA paramilitary support officer supplying these increasingly anti-Kennedy death-squads with arms and equipment!
Remember that US Army Chief Warrant Officer, CW2 Edward John Coyle, Head of Security Section of 112th Military Intelligence Group, was trying to target gunrunners Lawrence Reginald Miller and Donnell Darius Whitter, who had broken into Fort Hood Army Base, stole weapons & ammunition that they were going to deliver to the anti-Castro effort!
And of all persons, he met with, on 22 November 1963, with FBI special agent James Hosty (the agent charge of Oswald in Dallas) and ATF special agent, Frank Ellsworth at Dallas ATF HQ?!
I wonder who the 112th Military Intelligence Group informant was that reported on that weapons heist?
Mr. Oswald, anybody?
Of course, COL. Prouty's eyes and ears in the CIA anti-Castro operation at JMWAVE was COL. Samuel Goodhue Kail, commander, CIA Cuban Operations, Joint Support Group, US Army Element—Region II, 112th Military Intelligence Group, 4th US Army Operations Group—US Army Assistant Chief of Staff, Intelligence, Pentagon.
I wonder who could of accessed Mr. Oswald's files and made him the patsy for the Dallas operation under the command of SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny?
COL. Samuel Goodhue Kail, maybe?
The same COL. Kail who is a fixture in Jean-Pierre Lafitte's datebook.
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3 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:
If you want to be credible, you should never quote or cite Prouty. Here are a few other things that Prouty said and did:
He spoke at a Holocaust-denial conference sponsored by the Institute for Historical Review (IHR) (whose main function is to deny the Holocaust and attack the state of Israel).
He arranged for the IHR's publishing arm, Noontide Press, to republish his book The Secret Team, and praised Holocaust deniers Willis Carto and Tom Marcellus for having the "vision" and "courage" to republish his book. Go look at the other books published by the IHR/Noontide Press (LINK) (LINK).
He wrote a glowingly positive letter to the editor of the IHR's journal and spoke of how "important" the IHR's "primary goals" were (LINK).
He spoke at a convention held by the anti-Semitic, white-supremacist group Liberty Lobby, founded by Holocaust denier Willis Carto. Among other things, during his speech, he said the real culprit for high oil prices was--you guessed it--Israel. At the convention, Prouty also chaired a panel discussion with Bo Gritz, David Duke's running mate.
He appeared on Liberty Lobby's anti-Semitic, pro-white supremacist, Holocaust-denying radio show 10 times in four years.
He recommended that people read Liberty Lobby's newspaper The Spotlight, which carried ads by neo-Nazi groups, unceasingly bashed Israel, unceasingly slandered Jews, whitewashed Nazi war crimes, and promoted the idea that an international Jewish conspiracy was trying to take over the world.
When asked specifically about Carto's Holocaust denial, Prouty said, "I'm no authority in that area."
He expressed concern that about Jewish sergeants manning weapon-system computers during anti-air operations.
And this is not to even mention Prouty's other bizarre and embarrassing claims, such as his slanderous nonsense about Lansdale (which even Oliver Stone has repudiated), his scurrilous defense of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard, his nutty tale about JCS and intelligence involvement in the Jonestown mass suicide, his nutjob speculation about Princess Diana's death, his whacky speculation about Churchill poisoning FDR, his failure to produce his putatively historic notes when the ARRB asked for them, his bogus tale about a "stand down" call from the 112th MI Group, his curious claim that oil is not a fossil fuel but that oil companies want us to believe it is, his bogus suggestion that he was sent to the South Pole to help strip JFK of security (JFK: The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy, pp. 283-285)--a claim that he back-peddled from with the ARRB, and his bogus claims about the F-16 vs. the MiG-25 (not what you'd expect from a competent intelligence officer), etc., etc.
Prouty's crackpot claims have done enormous damage to the case for conspiracy in the JFK case. The Prouty-based claims in Oliver Stone's movie JFK provided easy targets for critics to demolish. Educated people will not take any book, article, or documentary seriously as soon as they see that it approvingly cites or quotes Prouty--at the very least, they will wonder about the author's reliability and judgment.
Further reading on Prouty:
I am glad you hare pointing out all of USAF COL. Leroy Fletcher Prouty's links to anti-Jewish hate organizations surrounding like Liberty Lobby & Institute for Historical Review, Mr. Griffith.
I am also glad you are demonstrating that the stories spread by COL. Prouty about "...stand-down orders..." concerning the personal protection of President Kennedy and the 112th Military Intelligence Group, 4th US Army Operations Group being in charge of that, which were proven false by Dan Hardway in his United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations interviews and Lt. Col. Timothy Wray in his Assassination Records Review Board interviews.
However, you fail to realize what I have come to suspect:
COL. Prouty's claims about the murder of President Kennedy are a "limited hangout" meant to target the United States government proper.
That is to say, when COL. Prouty is saying "...CIA murdered JFK...", what he was really saying was "...overthrow the established order..."
Now, I have no sympathies for CIA proper, however, when someone speaks in pluralist terms about an entire organization, like COL. Prouty's claims about "...the CIA..." or "the 112th MIG...", I get suspicious of that person's motivations.
Especially ever since COL. Prouty ended up spouting those claims in the late eighties from an anti-Jewish, Christian Identity platform like Noontide Press.
So when COL. Prouty makes blanket anti-US government claims about structural entities within said government—what was he really doing?
What COL. Prouty was doing was engaging in psychological warfare that was meant to target the democratic processes of the United States, first by riding the wave of legitimate distrust in US institutions, set upon the American public by events like the murders of JFK, RFK, Dr. King, Malcom X, "Watergate," "Iran-Contra," etc. then second, mobilizing that distrust of US institutions in a paranoid anti-government direction!
COL. Prouty weaponized legitimate grievances the US population had in the aftermath of turmoil of the 1960's and 70's and turned it into a perverse, right-wing, anti-government talking point.
And I stress, according to United States Army Counterintelligence debriefing with SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny, herr Skorzeny was positively identified as, "...Ausland-SD. commander of the Nazi German Military Section D, or Militarrisches Amt-D...", which tasked Skorzeny with infiltration of US intelligence services, and compromising their operational effectiveness.
Do you know, Mr. Griffith, who else was an Ausland-SD operative, and a close working associate of Skorzeny?
Try Francis Parker Yockey, who was an intellectual and spiritual mentor to Willis Allison Carto, the literal founder and organizer of COL. Prouty's pluralistic, anti-US government "...CIA did the deed..." & "...military intelligence did the deed..." platforms, which were Liberty Lobby, Institute for Historical Review, & Noontide Press!
Ausland-SD operative Francis Yockey's last visitor in prison (right before Yockey murdered himself with a cyanide capsule, like a good little Nazi should) was Willis Carto, whom Yockey imparted to Carto secret instructions that included sowing anti-government discontent and discourse within the US-based far-right, to the effect that those far-right elements would rise up and overthrow the legitimate democratic processes.
In case you have been living under a rock for the past three years, the United States suffered a leaderless resistance-style, slow-moving (it's still in effect) coup on 06 January 2021.
Of course leaderless resistance, which has for sixty years been a white supremacist battle strategy, is a commando concept that was first theorized by US Army COL. Ulius Louis Amoss, who later supported the CIA's anti-Castro efforts, thru his private, far-right, intelligence network called, International Services of Information Foundation, Inc. (INFORM).
COL. Amoss' Chief of Paramilitary Operations within his far-right INFORM intelligence network was Robert Emmett Johnson, who had just come off a stint as private security advisor to Servicio de Inteligencia Militar Chief, Gen. Arturo Rafael "Navajita" Espaillat Rodríguez, the murderous head of fascist dictator Rafael Trujillo's external intelligence networks.
Robert Emmett Johnson later infiltrated Gerald Patrick "Jerry" Hemming Jr.'s Intercontinental Penetration Force, and took several of Hemming's best men for his own private escapades in the Caribbean.
Robert Emmett Johnson is a fixture in Jean-Pierre Lafitte's datebook.
COL. Prouty covered-up his post-WWII Nazi intelligence affiliations well and he used US-domestic neo-fascists to do it.
Brilliant psychological warfare stratagem from a deadly master of misdirection.
COL. Prouty's claims about CIA proper murdering President Kennedy are a limited hangout for anti-government, anti-Jewish, xenophobic, homophobic, sexist, illiterate far-right yokels.
That is COL. Prouty's ultimate legacy.
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I realize that the very mention of USAF COL. Leroy Fletcher Prouty, sparks the imagination of even the least initiated surrounding the events of President Kennedy's violent removal.
I mean, imagine it, here is the former Chief of Special Operations, Joint Chiefs of Staff, deputy to USMC Lt. Gen. Victor Harold Krulak Special Assistant for Counter Insurgency Activities, Joint Chiefs of Staff, coming forward and saying, yes, the murder of President Kennedy was a highly organized military style coup, and it required the utilization of several overt and covert networks in order to pull it off.
COL. Prouty even awarded those networks a spiffy little moniker: "...The Secret Team.."
Spooky, right?
Well, over fifty years have passed, I have not seen any proof documented of such an aligned network of conspirators.
That is until a few weeks ago, when I got done reading a book by author Christopher Simpson.
And the information about this network of Nazi commandos and assassins was provided by interviews given to author Christopher Simpson by COL. Prouty personally.
A network of Nazi commandos and assassins that COL. Prouty says he created himself!
The following passage, from pages 137 & 138 of Christopher Simpson’s “Blowback: America's Recruitment of Nazis and Its Destructive Impact on Our Domestic and Foreign Policy,” which demonstrate that COL. Prouty, by his own admission, was a driving force behind creation of the United States Army’s “Special Forces” units—and that these same units later morphed into assassination teams:
QUOTE — "...The Bloodstone proposal was approved by SANACC, the special interagency intelligence coordinating committee, on June 10, 1948.
A month later the JCS approved a second, interlocking plan for the recruitment and training of guerrilla leaders from among the Soviet émigré groups. This initiative was a slightly modified version of the revived Vlasov Army Plan, which had originally been promoted by Kennan, Thayer and Franklin Lindsay, who later worked with many of these same guerrillas on behalf of the CIA. In their report on this second proposal the Joint Chiefs reveal that Bloodstone was part of a covert warfare, sabotage, and assassination operation...the recruitment of foreign mercenaries for political murder missions was a specific part of Operation Bloodstone from the beginning…"
— END QUOTE.
Perhaps not so incidentally, Franklin A. Lindsay, an OSS commando and CIA veteran of stay-behind operations in Albania and Ukraine, was the man who recruited Everette Howard Hunt Jr. into the CIA—E. Howard Hunt, utilizing the pseudonym “Eduardo” of course, was “Jerry” Droller’s subordinate in “Operation Zapata.”
Hunt and Lindsay were both siphoning US taxpayer funds from the Economic Cooperation Administration to covertly finance “Operation GLADIO,” via a secret slush-fund within the European Recovery Program AKA The Marshall Plan, *previously unidentified cryptonym called “...ZRCANDY...”
*(Could somebody contact Bill Simpich for me and get this on Mary Ferrell?)
ZRCANDY funds were, according to CIA cross-references, “...ECA counterpart funds turned over to CIA…”
Interestingly enough, Franklin A. Lindsay was president of the Itek Corporation when it stole the original Orville Nix film of the JFK murder and never returned it.
Of course, as Chief of Office of Special Operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, COL. Prouty was “Jerry” Droller’s liaison to USMC General Graves Blanchard Erskine, Director of Special Operations of the United States Department of Defense, organizing the creation of the anti-Castro émigré armies!
The mysterious "Jerry" Droller was later replaced by E. Howard Hunt as the CIA political action officer in-charge of the anti-Castro émigré effort...
...But I digress...
Disturbing still, is the fact that Frank Lindsay’s Air Operations liaison in monstrously evil “Operation BLOODSTONE,” was US Air Force COL. Leroy Fletcher Prouty, which, once again utilizing Christopher Simpson’s “Blowback: America's Recruitment of Nazis and Its Destructive Impact on Our Domestic and Foreign Policy,” this time on pages 182 to 184, we can clearly see that COL. Prouty was front-and-center in the utilization of Nazi émigrés within US Army Special Forces:
QUOTE —
"...The process of integrating ex-Nazi émigré groups into U.S. nuclear operations may be traced to at least early 1947, when General Hoyt Vandenberg became the first Chief of Staff of the newly independent US Air Force. Vandenberg had commanded the 9th Air Force in Europe during World War II, then had been tapped to head the Central Intelligence Group, the immediate predecessor to the CIA, in 1946. Among the general's responsibilities at the air force was the development of written plans describing strategies and tactics for the use of America's new nuclear weapons in the event of a war. “Vandenberg had a clear idea about just how he thought a nuclear war was going to be fought,” argues retired Colonel Fletcher Prouty, who was a senior aide to the Air Force Chief of Staff in the 1940s and later top liaison man between the Pentagon and the CIA. “[He] knew that if there was a nuclear exchange in those days—and we were talking about atomic bombs, now, not H-bombs—you would destroy the communications and lifeblood of a country, but the country would still exist. It would just be rubble. People would be wandering around wanting to know who was boss and where the food was coming from and so forth, but the country would still be there." Therefore the US thinking went, “we must begin [to create independent communication centers inside the Soviet Union] after the nuclear blast and begin to pull it together for our ends.”
The army, air force, and CIA all began competing programs to prepare for the post nuclear battlefield. This included the creation of what eventually came to be called the Special Forces—better known today as the Green Berets—in the army and the air resupply and communication wings in the air force. The job of these units, Prouty explains, was to set up anti-Communist political leaders backed up by guerrilla armies inside the USSR and Eastern Europe in the wake of an atomic war, capture political power in strategic sections of the country, choke off any remaining communist resistance, and ensure that the Red Army could not regroup for a counterattack. “Somebody had to bring order back into the country, and before the Communists could do it we were going to come flying in there and do it,” Prouty says.
“The Eastern European and Russian émigré groups we had picked up from the Germans were the center of this; they were the personnel,” according to the retired colonel. “The CIA was to prepare these forces in peacetime; stockpile weapons, radios, and Jeeps for them to use; and keep them ready in the event of war. A lot of this equipment came from military surplus. The CIA was also supposed to have some contacts [inside the USSR] worked out ahead of time for use when we got there, and that was also the job of the émigré groups on the agency payroll. In the meantime, they [the émigré troops] were useful for espionage or covert action." Both the army and the CIA laid claim to the authority to control guerrilla foot soldiers after war had actually been declared.
A recently declassified top secret document confirms Prouty’s assertion that the émigré armies enjoyed an important role in the eyes of nuclear planners of the time. The 1949 study begins with a summary of what was then the current atomic strategy. Seventy atomic bombs, along with an unspecified amount of conventional explosives, were slated to be dropped from long-range planes on selected Soviet targets over a thirty-day period. The impact of the attack had to be carefully calculated, according to the JCS memo: about 40 percent of the Soviets’ industrial capacity would be destroyed, including most of the militarily crucial petroleum industry.
But this, the chiefs contended, would not guarantee victory. The thirty-day atomic assault, the Pentagon concluded with considerable understatement, “might stimulate resentment against the United States” among the people of the USSR, thus increasing their will to fight. A major program of political warfare following the attack was therefore essential, the JCS determined. In fact, the effectiveness of the atomic attack itself was “dependent upon adequacy and promptness of [the] associated military and psychological operations….Failing prompt and effective exploitation, the opportunity would be lost and subsequent Soviet psychological reactions would adversely affect the accomplishment of Allied objectives.”
The commitment of five wings of B-29 bombers to the émigré guerrilla army project is a practical measure of importance that the Pentagon attached to it. The B-29 was the largest, most sophisticated, and most expensive heavy bomber in the U.S. inventory at the time. According to Prouty, General Vandenberg originally conceived of the air force's role in psychological and guerrilla warfare as a third branch of his service, equal, at least in administrative status, to the Strategic Air Command and the Tactical Air Command. Special Forces visionaries in the army such as General McClure had similar plans for that service as well.
The Vlasov Army guerrilla training proposals earlier initiated by Keenan, Thayer, and Lindsay fitted neatly into the military's nuclear strike force plans..."
— END QUOTE.
Of course, one must come to the conclusion, after reading the former admissions by COL. Prouty, that he, under Gen. Vandenberg, helped recruit and reorganize thousands of Nazi émigré guerrillas for “Operation BLOODSTONE,” meshing those fascist stay-behind commandos into the newly formed “Special Forces” of US Army Gen. Robert Alexis McClure (of course, it was Gen. McClure who served as commander of Military Assistance Advisory Group, Iran during the 15 August 1953 Iranian coup d'état, code-named Operation AJAX).
Nazi émigré forces that were previously under the command of SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny:
The above United States Army intelligence document, created from an *interrogation report from the US Army 307th Counterintelligence Corp's own debriefing of Otto Skorzeny literally identifies Skorzeny as, "...Chief of AMT VI/S..." and "...Section Chief of MILITARRISCHES AMT D..."
*It should be noted that two of the debriefing officers that interrogated Skorzeny were Arnold Melvin Silver, CIA commander of Project "QJWIN" criminal spotter program and US Army Brig. Gen. Theodore C. Mataxis, Chief of Personal Staff, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs—of course, Arnold Silver's liaison to the CIA's assassination capabilities, AKA Executive Action, was William King Harvey—in November of 1963, Bill Harvey was the CIA Station Chief in Rome, Italy, where his State Department attaché to the Vatican was Carmel Offie.
Carmel Offie was the Office of Policy Coordination commander of Operation BLOODSTONE, and by 1963, while working under Bill Harvey, Offie was attaché to Pope Paul VI.
Pope Paul VI, AKA Giovanni Battista Enrico Antonio Maria Montini, had served, in 1952, under the Secretariat of State of the Holy See, as the Deputy of Foreign Affairs of the Vatican, and secretly met with Otto Skorzeny to finance a commando army in Spain...
...I digress once more...
Amt VI-S was the Nazi High Command's special forces émigré armies—which fell under the Sicherheitsdienst des Reichsführers-SS (Security Service of the Reichsführer-SS) Foreign Security Service, or, as it was known in German, Ausland-SD.
Of course, Skorzeny's other title states he was commander of the Nazi German Military Section D, or Militarrisches Amt-D.
Militarrisches Amt-D was the Nazi intelligence section tasked with infiltration operations against United States military intelligence.
This means that Skorzeny was commander of all Ausland-SD operations tasked with infiltration of US intelligence services, and compromising their effectiveness!
And if Skorzeny really was the commanding officer, of a special team, targeting President Kennedy for assassination, he certainly had all of his old Amt VI-S commandos in well placed positions within the command structure of United States Army Special Forces Command—thanks to COL. Prouty and his Operation BLOODSTONE war plan!
Dedicated researcher Leslie Sharp has pointed out the disturbing entries within the Jean-Pierre Lafitte datebook that indicate Skorzeny was mastermind behind the Kennedy murder plot.
I would like to note that one of the names mentioned in the Lafitte datebook appears to be Operation MONGOOSE officer and Chief of Staff of the United States Army, Gen. George Henry Decker.
In keeping with the theorem that COL. Prouty grafted SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny's émigré armies to United States Army Special Forces, I'd like to note that the creator of the following special forces units was Gen. Decker:
Special Action Force, Asia - 1st Special Forces Group on Okinawa
Special Action Force, Middle East - 3rd Special Forces Group
Special Action Force, Africa - 6th Special Forces Group in CONUS
Special Action Force, Latin America - 8th Special Forces Group in the Canal Zone
And the CIA support officers to those Special Forces units, operating under a CIA commando training program code-named ZRJEWEL were the following men:
Lt. Col. Lucien Emile Conein
William Alexander "Rip" Robertson Jr.
Grayston L. Lynch
Special Activities Division, Special Operations Group officers Lynch and Robertson were both commanders in Operation Zapata and Conein was in charge of overthrowing the South Vietnamese government.
Whether anyone will agree with me or not, I believe COL. Prouty may have known a helluva lot more than he revealed, and took valuable information concerning the real murderers of President Kennedy to the grave...
USAF COL. Prouty, Operation BLOODSTONE, SS-Obersturmbannführer Skorzeny, & the murder of President Kennedy...
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Unfortunately, I have not time to speak about the Trump regime or his gang, either on this forum or in privates messages.
Plus, this particular post is supposed to be about Operation BLOODSTONE and the clear phenomena that COL. Prouty had something to do with it, and engaged in a limited hangout.