Bill Brown

Again, to believe that Markham really did leave her apartment at 1:04 and was approaching the corner of Tenth and Patton at 1:06 "overlooks" what the police tapes (combined with the actions of multiple witnesses) tell you.

"Dave Perry has an active website but I don't know how to reach him - could someone let me know how to reach him - Bill Brown, do you know how to reach him? - so we can ask him directly to publicly state who created the faked Bledsoe police report?" I've talked to Dave Perry on the phone about the Bledsoe document. Perry told me he was invited by Jim Marrs to attend some press release at UT Arlington. Perry took Gary Mack along with him. Bobby Hargis was in attendance. Perry happened to have a copy of this document with him. Perry noticed Hargis and in an attempt to determine if the document was authentic or not, Perry went up to Hargis (who's name appears on the document as one of the officers on the scene). Hargis told Perry that nothing like that ever happened and that the document is fake. Hargis added that he never worked as a patrol officer in a car (motorcycle officers don't get sent to domestic disturbances, they work traffic duty and escorts). Perry told me that two people are responsible for this fake document. They sent it to Mark Lane but it was returned. They then sent it off to Penn Jones. I think Penn Jones then sent it to Jim Garrison, who didn't believe the document was real so he never used it. To prove they were responsible, one of the two creators of the document gave the original yellow copy to Perry (the document had three or four colored carbon copies attached to the white sheet at the top). Perry told me that he still owns the yellow copy. Perry told me that the two who created this document made him promise to not release their names until after they have both passed away. One is still alive.

Thanks for your thoughts, Ron. I think William Manchester said it best: "If you put the murdered President of the United States on one side of a scale and that wretched waif Oswald on the other side, it doesn't balance. You want to add something weightier to Oswald. It would invest the President's death with meaning, endowing him with martyrdom. He would have died for something. A conspiracy, of course, would do the job nicely."

"Although Mrs. Roberts did not specify the time of 1:04, her statements certainly support the time of 1:04 for Oswald's departure from the rooming house." That is debatable, but setting that aside... It is ridiculous for ANYONE to say that Roberts said Oswald was at the bus stop at "about 1:04". It is a clear misstatement in an attempt to make one's point seem more valid. I believe the person who made the claim simply doesn't know the evidence. Roberts never says 1:04 and those who don't know any better (like many of you right here on this forum) might assume it is true because they heard it stated. "The WC had to bend or ignore several facts just to get Oswald to his rooming house by right around 1:00." This simply is not true. The Secret Service and the FBI reconstructed Oswald's steps (with the help of Cecil McWatters and William Whaley) in an attempt the determine the absolute earliest that Oswald could have reached the rooming house. Based on McWatters' statement of where it was that Oswald boarded the bus (we know Oswald boarded that bus because he had McWatters' specific bus transfer and McWatters said he issued that transfer to only one woman and only one man), Oswald walked about seven blocks east (into the downtown area) after he left the Depository within three minutes of the shooting. "So I gave her a transfer and opened the door and she was going out the gentleman I had picked up about two blocks (back) asked for a transfer and got off at the same place in the middle of the block where the lady did. It was the intersection near Lamar Street, it was near Poydras and Lamar Street." -- Cecil McWatters They concluded, based on what McWatters told them (along with the Secret Service agents and FBI agents walking the route in an average time of six and a half minutes), that Oswald boarded the bus around 12:40 near the intersection of Field St. and Elm St. and then, after being on the bus for no more than four minutes, Oswald got off the bus near Lamar St. and Elm St. (asking for the transfer as he got off the bus). So now we have Oswald leaving the bus around 12:44. Oswald then walked three to four short blocks to the Greyhound station where he boarded Whaley's cab. This has Oswald entering the cab around 12:48. They then, with Whaley, reconstructed the cab ride from the Greyhound to the intersection of Beckley and Neely (Oswald got out of the cab on Beckley just north of the intersection with Neely). They concluded (using a stopwatch) that the cab ride took five minutes and thirty seconds. So now we have Oswald exiting Whaley's cab on Beckley at 12:53-12:54. Still using the stopwatch, they concluded that it was a five minute and forty-five second walk from the point Oswald exited the cab back to the rooming house. "You are brushing aside serious problems with the Tippit shooting eyewitnesses. There is no valid reason to doubt Acquilla Clemons' account or her sincerity." There are no serious problems with the witnesses. Secondly, Clemons never says the two men were associates so why should anyone else? "Do you really, really believe that Poe did not mark the shells? Really?" Now where exactly did I say that? I said that Poe told the Commission that he couldn't be certain that he marked the shells. This is a fact. "Perhaps you see nothing suspicious or unusual about the Tippit shooter being abjectly stupid enough to discard his shells at the crime scene in view of witnesses. I do." Stupid or not, he did exactly that. Do you care to take a guess as to the number of witnesses who specifically described the killer manually unloading the spent shells and/or throwing them to the ground? Are you saying it is your belief that the killer did NOT throw the shells down? I'm not sure what you're saying. "Did the Tippit shooter use the same revolver about which the FBI crime lab made wildly conflicting claims? The firing pin was defective and the gun would not shoot vs. the gun fired over 100 bullets without misfiring when tested." Now where on earth is this claim by the FBI that the firing pin was defective and therefore the gun would not shoot? You wouldn't be spouting factoids, now would you? (Now cue Michael Griffith posting an erroneous, baseless newspaper article stating that the firing pin was defective) "Yes, later on Roger Craig made some inaccurate statements, and some of them were arguably fabrications. But his initial statements are credible and well supported. Any analysis of Roger Craig must consider what happened to him in the years that followed the assassination, and must also consider the fact that he had excellent record at the time of the shooting." None of that is related to the flat out lie he told (when trying to sell his manuscript in the 70's), re: hearing of the shooting in Oak Cliff over a nearby police radio and then looking down at his watch, which read 1:06. A few years earlier, he actually thought the Oak Cliff shooting occurred around 1:40. Come on, now. There is no way DiEugenio (or anyone else) should mention Roger Craig's name when arguing that the Tippit shooting occurred earlier than the official version. Perhaps DiEugenio did not know of this 1968 interview with the L.A. Free Press.... which leads me to my main point, DiEugenio should never speak authoritatively on the Tippit case; it only makes him look foolish.

"Correct, the 1:15 bus time is in the WC testimony referenced in the Warren Report. It is dubious since there was no bus scheduled to arrive at Jefferson & Patton at 1:15. Ball should have known this from Barrett's report." Markham is the only one mentioning "1:15". Your claim that "the Warren Report's 1:15 is false" is faulty. The Warren Commission never claimed that there was a 1:15 bus; only Markham (and she doesn't necessarily say that the bus stop was scheduled for 1:15). "WR claims the murder occurred at 1:15 or 1:16, making a feeble attempt to defeat her explicit statements (DPD & WC) about her 1:06 arrival time at East 10th & Patton. Do you actually think she stopped & stood at the intersection for nearly ten minutes waiting for a cop to get gunned down?" The police tapes, along with multiple witness descriptions of their actions after the shooting, tell you that Markham is wrong, re: what time it was that she left her apartment. For example, Ted Callaway tells us that he heard the shots, went to the sidewalk on Patton, saw the gunman trot the full length of the block to Jefferson, then went up to the scene. Callaway's actions take four minutes at the most (from the time he heard the shots til the time he gets on the patrol car radio). His report to the police dispatcher is at 1:19. There are plenty more examples I can give you (and I have, throughout this forum). "Your absurd speculation that "she regularly arrived at the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:22 bus" means she would have missed the murder entirely from her vantage a block away, waiting for a bus to arrive seven minutes later." Speculation: Markham regularly catches the 1:22 bus and therefore, regularly arrives at the bus stop between 1:15 and 1:20. This would put her at Tenth and Patton (one block from the bus stop) right at the time of the murder (1:14 to 1:15). "Markham would not have allowed 18 minutes to walk approximately 900 feet to catch a bus at 1:22. Even Barrett's pace would have been beaten that time handily. She walked the two blocks daily. It would not have taken many trips before she (or anyone else) realized she was catching a bus at 1:12 not 1:22." Markham never mentions 1:12 or 1:22, so all we can do is speculate as to which bus she'd regularly catch. Regardless, no one has the right to claim as a fact which bus it was that she'd regularly catch. I'm simply offering up the possibility that she'd catch the 1:22 bus (because that is the time that jives with the police tapes, as opposed to her catching the 1:12 bus). Since she never mentions the time of 1:12 when referring to her bus, many conspiracy advocates are in error (even if they don't know it) to state as a fact the she was on her way to the 1:12 bus.

Nonsense. Josephs did no such thing, Perhaps you missed this thread, beginning on page five and it goes on for about four more pages...

Over 150 views and no disagreements. I guess we can all agree then that Mr. DiEugenio shouldn't be discussing the Tippit case from a position of authority.

Is something in that long-winded article supposed to refute the information put forth by Myers, re: Holan living on Patton and not Tenth?

From the Dale Myers blog article: http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2020/11/doris-e-holan-and-tippit-murder.html Where did Doris live? The central question surrounding the Holan story is whether the Holan family actually lived on Tenth Street as claimed by Pulte and Brownlow. Questions about the Holan family’s residency arose almost immediately when it was discovered that the 1964 Dallas City Directory (which covered the period of the assassination) showed that Doris E. Holan lived at 113 ½ S. Patton Avenue – around the corner from the Tippit shooting scene. Following my initial questioning of Doris Holan’s youngest daughter about where they lived at the time, she located a letter, dated December 26, 1963, from John Holan to “Mrs. Doris E. Holan & Family” living at “113 ½ S. Patton, Dallas, Tex.” The letter, written by her ex-father-in-law, thanked Doris for the Christmas card she had sent – which obviously had been mailed at least a week earlier.

Oh boy. Someone please tell this misguided soul that 2003 called and it wants it's JFK assassination research back. Holan did not live on East Tenth Street; she lived halfway down Patton. She had no view of Tippit's stopped patrol car, Tippit's body in the street and any of the driveways in question on Tenth Street from her apartment on Patton.

I've never given him a penny. Though I did offer to pay for his dinner one night if he wanted to join us for BBQ.

"The most provocative reading would be that Oswald was shown this memo before the assassination to let him know that he was a known stool pigeon to the police. My tentative conclusion - subject to change - is that this fake police report was created to waste time and poison any notion that Ruby and Oswald knew each other or even knew about each other. Such a technique is very effective. I don't think this was a joke. There is nothing "funny" about this kind of malicious forgery." This wasn't put out by the Dallas Police Department or anyone else before the assassination and therefore couldn't have been shown to Oswald. It was created in the mid sixties by a group intending to mess with Mark Lane (probably during the time of his Rush To Judgement nonsense). They mailed it to Lane, no doubt wanting him to take it and run with it as proof of Ruby and Oswald knowing each other. Then, once Lane was committed to the document and parading it everywhere, they would expose the document as fake (U R A FINK) and Lane would look foolish. Lane never received the document, however, and it was returned to sender and later sent off to Penn Jones.

"The second is that it was ascertained from the Dallas Transit System that the bus stopped at Jefferson & Patton at 1:12. The WR's 1:15 is false." No. The Warren Commission never made any claim about any bus stop at 1:15. What are you talking about? Ball asked Markham what time she "got her bus" and her reply was "1:15". The FBI ascertained (from the Dallas Transit System) that a bus stopped there at 1:12, 1:22 and every ten minutes thereafter. You don't get to just mention the 1:12 bus without mentioning the 1:22 bus as well. Markham never said she was catching a 1:12 bus and therefore the possibility remains that she regularly arrived at the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:22 bus.

"This issue came up in the context of Benavides' arrival time." Benavides said that he watched the killer go around the corner and sat there in his truck for "a second or two" before getting out and going over to the patrol car to get on the radio (The Warren Report, 1967, CBS, part 3). Benavides is on the radio probably sixty to seventy-five seconds after the last shot. He can be heard keying the mic at 1:15.

"I don't see how Bowley's parking location makes a bit of difference." It matters a little, when trying to reconstruct Bowley's movements in an attempt to set a timeline. I wanted you (and more importantly, anyone else reading, who may be unaware) to understand how it really went down. This only dragged out because when corrected, you insisted that you "have no mistaken beliefs about Bowley".

Our Hidden History interview with Jim DiEugenio: https://ourhiddenhistory.org/2018/05/25/james-dieugenio-the-j-d-tippit-murder-case-in-the-new-millennium-an-our-hidden-history-interview.html "The Warren Commission said that Oswald after the shooting of Kennedy left work, was driven by a taxi to his rooming house in Oak Cliff that he was only at the rooming house for a short period of time that he picked up his revolver and walked outside and went to a corner across the street. No, not across the street. Earlene Roberts stated that she saw Oswald standing near the bus stop on the same side of the street as the rooming house. "Anyway that's the last time the landlady saw him. She said that he was there at about 1:04." No. Roberts does not say anything about 1:04. She testified that Oswald came in "around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after". She added that she really wouldn't want to say what time it was that Oswald came in. She testified that Oswald went back into his room and stayed about "three or four minutes", a figure of speech. She continues by saying that Oswald was back in his room just long enough to go in there and get a jacket and put it on. This last part is not a figure of speech; it is a literal description of just how long she felt that Oswald was back in his room. Oswald was most likely back in his room for no more than sixty seconds because that is all the time it requires to grab a jacket and put it on. Regardless, she doesn't say anything about 1:04. "Roger Craig had a watch on. These witnesses placed at the shooting of Tippit much closer to about 1:06 or 1:07." First of all, Roger Craig (in his manuscript titled When They Kill A President) said that he heard the news of the Tippit shooting from a nearby police radio (while in Dealey Plaza) and he looked at his watch, noting that the time was 1:06. Neither the Dallas Police tapes nor the Dallas County Sheriff's tapes make any mention of any shooting over in Oak Cliff until we hear from T.F. Bowley at 1:16/1:17 (depending on who you want to use), i.e. there was never any broadcast on the tapes at 1:06 about a police officer getting shot. Secondly, Craig (along with Penn Jones) was interviewed in 1968 by the L.A. Free Press. In the interview, Craig was asked what time the Tippit shooting occurred. His reply was "about 1:40". Jones immediately corrects Craig, informing Craig that the shooting actually occurred at 1:15. Craig's reply: "Oh that's right. The broadcast was put out shortly after 1:15 on Tippit's killer." 1968: Roger Craig (obviously unaware that he was going to try to sell a manuscript a few years later) believed (until he was corrected by Penn Jones) that the Tippit shooting occurred around 1:40. 1970's: While trying to sell a manuscript, Roger Craig concocts a story of hearing of the shooting of a police officer in Oak Cliff and looking down at his wristwatch, noting that the time was 1:06. "Warren Reynolds was also an eyewitness, saw the guy running away from the scene, said he would not commit to identifying Oswald then he was shot through the head and he changed his mind, and now he said he would identify Oswald." Let's be a little more honest about this. Warren Reynolds, before he was shot in the head, told the FBI that he was "of the opinion" that the man he saw running with a gun was Lee Oswald, but Reynolds added that he would hesitate to state for a certainty that the man was Oswald. Why wouldn't Mr. DiEugenio simply quote the actual FBI interview with Reynolds? "The lineups at Dallas Police Department were very unfair, to say the least... Further, when asked their names and occupations, the other people in the lineup who were policemen gave fictitious answers. Oswald said his real name and said he worked at Texas School Book Depository. What the heck kind of lineup is that? It's just a joke." There is no evidence whatsoever that Oswald was asked, during any of the lineups, to state his place of employment and that he answered that he worked at the Depository. "Now, further complicating that, Jerry Hill said he told an officer, JM Poe to mark the shells. His marks were not evident when the policemen inspected the exhibits for the commission." Poe told the Warren Commission that he couldn't be certain that he ever did mark the shells. "Further, when the witnesses who found the other two shells were asked by the FBI to identify them as the ones they originally recovered, they could not." Is this really supposed to mean anything at all? So we have Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis each finding a shell casing. While the officers were still on the scene, Barbara Davis notified Captain George Doughty (of the crime lab) of a shell casing lying on the ground. Doughty took possession of the shell. Then, about four hours later, Virginia Davis finds a shell casing just a few feet from the location of the shell Barbara found earlier. They call the police and Detectives Dhority and Brown (both of the Homicide & Robbery Bureau) are sent out to collect this shell casing (as well as take the two girls to headquarters to view a lineup). Is it somehow supposed to be suspicious that two teenage girls could not identify shell casings that they had each found lying on the ground months earlier? To anyone not familiar with firearms and ammo, all shell casings probably look the same. This appears to me like a desperate attempt by DiEugenio to make these two shell casings now in evidence appear to be planted at a later time. "Because of a witness named, Acquilla Clemons who worked as a caretaker about a block away. She heard the shots, run down the street. She said she saw two men at the scene. One was tall and slender. The other one was a short guy and then the tall guy waved at the shooter and told him to go on and they run off in different directions." Here, DiEugenio implies that two men were involved in Tippit's death. Acquilla Clemons never even hinted that the two men were associates. Secondly, and more importantly, the REAL witnesses who were actually outdoors when the shooting occurred (unlike Clemons) and watched the events unfold (for the most part), people like Jimmy Burt, Bill Smith, Domingo Benavides, Helen Markham and William Scoggins, ALL stated that Tippit encountered just one man. How could these REAL witnesses (who saw the thing go down) manage to miss a second culprit? "There was also a letter to Playboy Magazine in the January 1968 issue where an anonymous person agreed with Clemons, he had been at the scene of the crime and he saw two men run off in different directions, neither one of them being Oswald." Well, if it's from "anonymous", then it must be true. "Doris Holan was one of these witnesses ... who were at the scene of the Tippit shooting but were never interviewed by the Warren Commission. There isn't even any evidence that she was interviewed by the Dallas Police or the FBI which is really weird because her house, her apartment is on the second floor of a house right across the street from where Tippit was shot and there's a diagram in my article which shows that." No. On 11/22/63, Holan's apartment was on Patton, pretty much halfway down the block between Tenth and Jefferson. Dale Myers did some great work on where Holan lived on the day of the murder: http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2020/11/doris-e-holan-and-tippit-murder.html Despite some of the mistaken claims made right here on this forum, from her apartment on Patton, Holan could not see Tippit's parked patrol car on Tenth. "She (Holan) said that as she looked out her second floor window upon hearing the shots, she saw second police car at the scene. It was in the driveway before 404 and 410 East 10th Street. This was adjacent to the spot where Tippit's car stopped. So knowingly or unknowingly Tippit blocked the driveway which led to an alley at the middle of the block behind. She said that a man got out of the car, looked at Tippit's body and went back down the driveway. He was alongside the car which is retreating back towards the alley." Well, since we now know that Holan did not live in the apartment on Tenth directly across the street from the shooting scene, all of this is kind of moot, isn't it? This is what you get when you cite Mike Brownlow as a source. "No other county in America and almost no state for that matter has freed more innocent people from prison in recent years than Tarrant county which is where Dallas is, where Mr. Wade was a DA from 1951 through 1986." Say what? Tarrant County is the county to the west of Dallas, encompassing Fort Worth. Henry Wade was the D.A. for Dallas County from '51 to '87. "Also if you can believe this, he was also at one time a security guard at the Texas Theater which is a place where Oswald was arrested at. Again, maybe that's just a coincidence but I find that kind of interesting." No. Nothing interesting here. Tippit was never a security guard at the Texas Theater. He did however once work part-time security at the Stevens Park Theater.

Gene's argument fails because Ruby isn't the only person who corrected Wade. Gene's argument fails because he basically implied that Ruby was the only person who corrected Wade. Gene's argument fails because many voices can be heard correcting Wade and none of them said what Gene claimed, which he (Gene)undoubtedly got from some goofy conspiracy book and/or author. This is getting dragged out because you guys won't quit. All I really did was correct Gene by informing him that there is film footage of the moment and none of the voices called Wade by his first name. That's really all this had to be. Gene: Ruby said "That's Fair Play For Cuba Committee, Henry" Bill: Ruby didn't use Wade's first name when he (Ruby) corrected Wade and many voices can be heard correcting Wade, not just one. That should have been the end of it. Period. Move on.

No. Ruby himself certainly did not testify that (below) is what he said to Wade. You have a difficult time with reading comprehension. I'm perfectly aware of Jack Ruby's testimony. Ruby himself did not say that he said this to Wade: “That's 'Fair Play for Cuba Committee,' Henry.”

You are under the mistaken impression that Bowley drove past the patrol car and the body before crossing over Patton, parking and getting out of his car in the next block down on Tenth. Truth is, he pulled over and got out before he actually reached the car. Beginning at the 5;52 mark... "Turned onto the street, noticed the police car and the officer laying by it. So I parked a good ways back because I didn't want my 12 year old daughter to see it. Got out and went up there." https://archive.org/details/JFKAssassinationHuntingOswald

T.F. Bowley affidavit (12/2/63): "I was headed north on Marsalis and turned west on 10th Street. I traveled about a block and noticed a Dallas police squad car stopped in the traffic lane headed east on 10th Street. I saw a police officer lying next to the left front wheel. I stopped my car and got out to go to the scene." Bowley did not drive past the stopped patrol car and the body. He stopped BEFORE he reached the car and walked the rest of the way. Learn the evidence.

"The point of the post wasn't the fake document..." And yet you decided to use it in support of your post.

You guys are pretty good taking the comments of another and twisting them around. All I did here was point out a gross exaggeration. No one has said that some/many/dozens of members of the Dallas Police Department did not know Jack Ruby. In reality, much less than half of the members of the DPD knew Jack Ruby. I don't like exaggerations when they are used to try to make a point seem more valid. Tom Gram said: "Jack Ruby, best friend of the Dallas Police Department..."

Please take a moment to say what I was wrong about... and be precise. I haven't seen you correct me on anything since I've been here.

"It's not productive to debate the skeptics here ... they are simply regurgitating the same specious arguments that McAdam's posted many years ago." No. The person who was regurgitating specious arguments was you when you said that Ruby corrected Wade with “That's 'Fair Play for Cuba Committee,' Henry.”

You're confused. What exactly is your point?