Shots from inside the presidential limo

[John Dugan]

If Saturday Night Live was going to do a sketch making fun of Kennedy assassination researchers, this would be it... long involved discussions as to whether Greer, while driving the limousine, could have turned around in his seat, whipped out a chrome-colored revolver, and blasted JFK in the head. I can just see it.

There is only one word for this kind of nonsense.... silly!

Josiah Thompson

actually, Mr. Healy, I get a lesson each time I read the board.

But not from the Worst Thread Ever

How many of the top researchers on the Kennedy Assassanation think that a shot came from inside the presidential limo? I'd love to hear the list of names.

I agree, Tink. Embarrassing. Particularly in that Rigby is not even using the usual claim--that the Z-film shows Greer shoot Kennedy--but is instead conjuring up a case for the Greer did-it scenario by misrepresenting evidence statements.

Exactly.

The quote, "The shots sounded they were coming from inside the car", is a figure of speech. The witnesses did not mean them literally.

Silly is a good word to describe the "Greer shot JFK" theory.

......Still waiting on the list of Top Researchers that think this theory is possible.

LMAO....

where oh WHERE would we be without the lone nut-trolls? ROTFLMFAO! Where is the lone nut varsity one might ask? Horrible showing!

lone nut? xxxxx? I am neither.

I just think its bunk to believe that SS agents, driving the presidential limo, would fire a weapon at the President and think they would not be discovered by the occupants in the car.

And no Paul, I am not obsessed with this thread. Just trying to understand why you would think this theory is possible. From what I have read here, this is all based on poorly worded statements from witnesses?

Answer me this, would The Governor and/or his wife have ringing in their ears if a gun was fired in their direction, from 3-4 away? Wouldn't they remember that, if it happened?

Edited January 28, 2010 by John Dugan

[Jonathan Cohen]

>I just think its bunk to believe that SS agents, driving the presidential limo, would fire a weapon at the President and think they would not be discovered by the occupants in the car.

>And no Paul, I am not obsessed with this thread. Just trying to understand why you would think this theory is possible. From what I have read here, this is all based on poorly worded statements from witnesses?

>Answer me this, would The Governor and/or his wife have ringing in their ears if a gun was fired in teir direction, from 3-4 away? Wouldn't they remember that, if it happened?

Amen! Well said. Paul, how could shots have been fired from within the limousine without A SINGLE PERSON having seen it happen? Even if we suppose it did happen, how could that possibly have been edited out of the several films that show the head shot?

[David G. Healy]

>I just think its bunk to believe that SS agents, driving the presidential limo, would fire a weapon at the President and think they would not be discovered by the occupants in the car.

>And no Paul, I am not obsessed with this thread. Just trying to understand why you would think this theory is possible. From what I have read here, this is all based on poorly worded statements from witnesses?

>Answer me this, would The Governor and/or his wife have ringing in their ears if a gun was fired in teir direction, from 3-4 away? Wouldn't they remember that, if it happened?

Amen! Well said. Paul, how could shots have been fired from within the limousine without A SINGLE PERSON having seen it happen? Even if we suppose it did happen, how could that possibly have been edited out of the several films that show the head shot?

perhaps you need a lesson in

quoting

who are you quoting, btw?

-and- isn't there one single lone nut-xxxxx that can explain film compositing to you? Perhaps Ray Fielding's Special Effects Cinematography is the place for a newbie to start. Don't feel embarrassed, most nutter trolls haven't a clue. Simply ask Craig Lamson to verify same.....

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Hi Ray

I've been thinking about this over the last few days. SS involvement and knowledge of the hit.

Hi Lee:

My working theory is based on David Lifton's BEST EVIDENCE. Lifton's theory that JFK was shot ONLY FROM THE FRONT has never been disproved, and won't be without a new autopsy. Doug Horne's book provides additional evidence from the HSCA and the ARRB that supports Lifton's basic theory.

Bill Greer abruptly slowed the limo about two seconds before the fatal shot, as Alvarez demonstrates in his study

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=442 This ABRUPT slowdown is confirmed by dozens of eyewitnesses. JFK is then hit by an exploding bullet in the right temple, as we see in Z313. The Xrays show massive DIRECT damage to the right front of the brain, and the large hole and flap in the right temple, seen in the ZFILm and the autopsy photos, marks the ENTRANCE of that exploding bullet.

Kellerman stole the body at gunpoint and the back wound was added post-mortem. The throat wound was a wound of entry, as Malcolm Perry told reporters.

One question keeps coming up in my mind. If Greer and Kellerman both knew what was about to happen in the car - they must have had the biggest pairs of you know whats to sit there waiting. Knowing that two or possible three rifle teams were going to be firing into the limo at a certain point in the motorcade

These men signed on to take risks when they first became SS agents. When they signed on to the JFK plot the risk was more concrete, but they were no doubt WELL REWARDED and they were assured that they would never be directly in the line of fire, since all the shots would be aimed at the rear of the car and would be coming from the RIGHT FRONT. Note that Kellerman keeps his well FORWARD throughout.

and by all accounts they weren't the best shots

They were crack shots. Mission WAS accomplished.

- first hitting Kennedy in the back

Negative on that (C.F. BEST EVIDENCE)

missing his head,

Negative on that also.

missing him totally and taking out the Governor,

Wounding the Governor may or may not have been intentional. David Lifton recently indicated that he will demonstrate that Connally was also shot from the right front so again neither Kellerman nor Greer was in the line of fire.

missing the car all together once maybe three times.

Don't know where you got three missed shots from. In any case my working theory assumes that Greer and Kellerman had enough faith in the shooter(s) to take the risk. The JFK assassins were at least as good as Annie Oakley or William Tell.

Do you think Greer knew exactly where the shots were going to take place or would it have been more of a general "you'll know when it happens so slow down"?

Greer knew EXACTLY where the shooting would take place.

There must have been an incredible amount of pressure placed upon them for them to sit in an open top car waiting for the shooters to hopefully hit the spot if they knew the precise details.

Yes, for a few seconds there the pressure was intense.

What are your thoughts?

There you have them in a nutshell.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

My instinctive reaction is to defend my own belief that the first shot is the back wound and I believe it was a 6.5mm bullet from the MC rifle.

Some points to bear in mind in considering the putative back wound:

There is no evidence that the MC rifle, when found, showed signs of recent firing.

There was no trace of blood or tissue on CE399, which supposedly caused the back wound.

Dr. Vincent Guinn's CBLA theory, which supposedly PROVED that CE399 had not been planted, has now been shown to be JUNK SCIENCE and ruled INADMISSABLE in state and federal courts.

[And no medical person in Dallas reported seeing a back wound]

Edited January 28, 2010 by J. Raymond Carroll

[Paul Rigby]

I just think its bunk to believe that SS agents, driving the presidential limo, would fire a weapon at the President and think they would not be discovered by the occupants in the car.

Did Greer and Kellerman really fear discovery? I doubt it. Just who was going to move against them, the spear-point of the conspiracy? Sure, there was the inconvenience of the interviews with the FBI on November 27; and Greer in particular could be forgiven, assuming he was aware of the fact, for a momentary pause when the G-men set down a physical description of him - just as in the case of the medical intern who so helpfully pumped up and down on Oswald's gut immediately post-shooting - but I'm sure that passed quickly.

And no Paul, I am not obsessed with this thread.

Never said - or wrote - that you were. Did you have someone else in mind, Jonathan?

Just trying to understand why you would think this theory is possible.

No, that's a fib. You're not here to "understand" anything. You're here to object to the idea, as you stated at the outset of your post.

From what I have read here, this is all based on poorly worded statements from witnesses?

Weasel words. You don't like the import of their statements. Again, a different matter.

Answer me this, would The Governor and/or his wife have ringing in their ears if a gun was fired in teir direction, from 3-4 away? Wouldn't they remember that, if it happened?

I'm sure one or more did; and therefore await the release of the unexpurgated WC testimony with some interest. if you have Jackie's, do share with the rest of us!

Amen! Well said. Paul, how could shots have been fired from within the limousine without A SINGLE PERSON having seen it happen?

Is that true? If so, why the refusal of those who questioned, say, Austin Miller and George Davis, to ask the question directly? After all, if you were right, there wasn't anything to fear from their answers.

Even if we suppose it did happen, how could that possibly have been edited out of the several films that show the head shot?

You assume the films genuine - why? The evidence against them is overwhelming: The witnesses take precedence over the films; their testimony is incompatible with the films; and the films have no provenance worth a damn. End of story.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I'm open minded to the idea that the back wound could also have been caused by a 7.65 round.

I would be open minded to that idea also, if there was any evidence to support it.

although not mentioned in her WC testimony Nurse Diane Bowron saw the back wound and told Harrison Livingstone about this?

You are right that nurse Bowron said nothing about a back wound to the Warren Commission, nor to anybody else AT THE TIME.

Memories of thirty-odd year old details are not reliable, as you can find in the thread on Detective Paul Bentley.

[David Andrews]

I agree that the eyewitness accounts are "poorly worded"; most people don't express themselves well colloquially, and especially after trauma.

I agree that it's not very secret to have the Secret Service administer a coup de grace in a very public coup d'etat. (Ashton Gray's poison needle thread describes a more plausible scenario for a coup de grace at a more likely location. if indeed that happened.) For that matter - why not make the purported throat flechette shot a poisoned missile?

But because of the reports and the confusion - shots in the limo simply cannot be dismissed at this time, like the dead SS man and the sewer shot can't.

Robotized guns in the limo doors or trunk, now that's...

Edited January 28, 2010 by David Andrews

[Jack White]

(had to delete quoted blocks because of error messages)

Interesting that Carroll has now become a Lifton devotee after showing so many signs of lonenutship.

Lifton's groundbreaking efforts deserve devotees.

Jack

[Jack White]

My instinctive reaction is to defend my own belief that the first shot is the back wound and I believe it was a 6.5mm bullet from the MC rifle.

Some points to bear in mind in considering the putative back wound:

There is no evidence that the MC rifle, when found, showed signs of recent firing.

There was no trace of blood or tissue on CE399, which supposedly caused the back wound.

Dr. Vincent Guinn's CBLA theory, which supposedly PROVED that CE399 had not been planted, has now been shown to be JUNK SCIENCE and ruled INADMISSABLE in state and federal courts.

[And no medical person in Dallas reported seeing a back wound]

Carroll seems to be doing a turnabout, finally recognizing real evidence instead of attacking people.

Jack

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Can I ask what you make of Emory Robert's behaviour seconds after the head shot when he shouted Jack Ready back after he began to follow Clint Hill's lead up to the Presidential Limo? Now that to me is very dodgy behaviour!

Since everything I say to you seems to go in one ear and out the other, I am tempted to say nothing. But even if I say nothing it will still be self evident that this behavior is consistent with SS involvement in the plot.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Interesting that Carroll has now become a Lifton devotee after showing so many signs of lonenutship.

Lifton's groundbreaking efforts deserve devotees.

Jack thinks that anyone who disagrees with Jack (on any issue) is a lone nutter.

Hey Jack, this song's for you:

[Jack White]

Interesting that Carroll has now become a Lifton devotee after showing so many signs of lonenutship.

Lifton's groundbreaking efforts deserve devotees.

Jack thinks that anyone who disagrees with Jack (on any issue) is a lone nutter.

Hey Jack, this song's for you:

You have NO idea what I think.

Jack

[John Dugan]

Interesting that Carroll has now become a Lifton devotee after showing so many signs of lonenutship.

Lifton's groundbreaking efforts deserve devotees.

Jack thinks that anyone who disagrees with Jack (on any issue) is a lone nutter.

Hey Jack, this song's for you:

You have NO idea what I think.

Jack

Mr. Jack, what do you think about the possibility of shots being fired from within the presidential limo?

[Jack White]

Interesting that Carroll has now become a Lifton devotee after showing so many signs of lonenutship.

Lifton's groundbreaking efforts deserve devotees.

Jack thinks that anyone who disagrees with Jack (on any issue) is a lone nutter.

Hey Jack, this song's for you:

You have NO idea what I think.

Jack

Mr. Jack, what do you think about the possibility of shots being fired from within the presidential limo?

I would not rule it out completely, yet the possibility to me is less than 1 percent. I believe that Horne

is of about that same opinion, since many people hinted as such a possibility. It has to be considered,

but with a large grain of salt. I can understand witnesses thinking of that...but I cannot imagine the

car occupants NOT NOTICING. The strongest evidence comes from the NOSE witnesses, who

smelled gunpowder. However, such a smell could also have come from the storm drain.

You can call me

Jack