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Towner vs. Zapruder


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This post includes information from Dale Myer's work on film sync's.

It also includes information from Marcel Dehaeseleer's website.

When Myer's does his film sync with multiple films, he includes Tina Towner's in the mix.

For sync analysis, he has Towner's film running at 23.3 FPS, which would indicate to me, the camera's frame rate was 24 FPS.

Might take a look at how that was deduced. Outlined in one of the red boxes.

The Towner camera described at Marcel's site shows this camera runs at 16 FPS.

The show "Murder In Dealy Plaza" says Towner was using a "Sears Tower Varizoom 8mm Camera".

This is reflected in the photo with the camera, inset and documentation.

So Myer's basis his comparison on a camera running at 24 FPS which yields a total of 160+(8 missing frames)=168.

Total film time=7.16 SEC X 24 FPS = 168

I have found no documentation that states this camera runs at 24 FPS.

If it runs at its stated speed, then we have 16FPS yielding 160 frames = 10 SEC OF FILM.

Would 3 extra seconds at the end of the Towner film, made much difference?

Well, since acording to Myer's there was a .71 sec gap between the end of Towner and the beginning of Zapruder, then an overlap of about 2.5 seconds

would've occured.

With Towner panning toward the pedestal, it raises many possibilities.

And since I'm discussing film sync's, what would be the possibility that Towner's film duration of 7.16 seconds is almost identical to the time it takes Zapruder to film his opening/non-limo sequence which is 132 frames at 18.3 FPS=7.21 seconds.

It's almost as if one film was used as a timing instrument for the other.

You know, how long would it take to film the limo coming around the corner.

Or maybe someone never stopped filming, thank you David Healy.

But, I'm just a conspiracy theorist and these are all coincidences.

chris

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BTW,

For those that might not see the big picture in this, since Myer's has multiple films syncing with his presentation, from beginning to end, and the

syncing is wrong based on the incorrect FPS used, all films involved are wrong.

Which means they have all been tampered with.

This one's for you, JACK.

cheers

chris

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BTW,

For those that might not see the big picture in this, since Myer's has multiple films syncing with his presentation, from beginning to end, and the

syncing is wrong based on the incorrect FPS used, all films involved are wrong.

Which means they have all been tampered with.

This one's for you, JACK.

cheers

chris

A study was done on this site with the Nix, Zapruder, Muchmore, (possibly another one???) and they used the right camera speeds and they were found to be in sync. You might wish to have someone like Mack (or even contact) to make sure that you have your facts correct.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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BTW,

For those that might not see the big picture in this, since Myer's has multiple films syncing with his presentation, from beginning to end, and the

syncing is wrong based on the incorrect FPS used, all films involved are wrong.

Which means they have all been tampered with.

This one's for you, JACK.

cheers

chris

A study was done on this site with the Nix, Zapruder, Muchmore, (possibly another one???) and they used the right camera speeds and they were found to be in sync. You might wish to have someone like Mack (or even contact) to make sure that you have your facts correct.

Bill

prove it! Simple as that.... You can't, nor can Gary Mack -- and we know it! Till you deliver the original camera masters and those versed in same can analyze them, you'er full of it --all the Lone Nut wishing and hoping won't change that....

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prove it! Simple as that.... You can't, nor can Gary Mack -- and we know it! Till you deliver the original camera masters and those versed in same can analyze them, you'er full of it --all the Lone Nut wishing and hoping won't change that....

David ... where was all this trash talk when Dolva and some others worked on showing all the films to be in sync??? Seems like you went quiet around that time. I always figured that was why you said 'I have seen no proof of alteration'.

BTW, did you find that request you made to Life Magazine detailing your request to examine the slides??? Did you at least come across their response to your request???

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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prove it! Simple as that.... You can't, nor can Gary Mack -- and we know it! Till you deliver the original camera masters and those versed in same can analyze them, you'er full of it --all the Lone Nut wishing and hoping won't change that....

David ... where was all this trash talk and Dolva and some others worked on showing all the films to be in sync??? Seems like you went quiet around that time. I always figured that was why you said 'I have seen no proof of alteration'.

BTW, did you find that request you made to Life Magazine detailing your request to examine the slides??? Did you at least come across their response to your request???

Bill

trash talk? Grow up son..... the slides and the trannies are at the 6th floor museum.... Been there for years! You didn't know that?

Now you've got a bit of work to do proving the DP films can be synced.

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BTW,

For those that might not see the big picture in this, since Myer's has multiple films syncing with his presentation, from beginning to end, and the

syncing is wrong based on the incorrect FPS used, all films involved are wrong.

Which means they have all been tampered with.

This one's for you, JACK.

cheers

chris

A study was done on this site with the Nix, Zapruder, Muchmore, (possibly another one???) and they used the right camera speeds and they were found to be in sync. You might wish to have someone like Mack (or even contact) to make sure that you have your facts correct.

Bill

For those that would like to read/obtain the document created by Dale Myer's, from which I have posted previously, you can get it here:

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics.htm

Bill,

It's simple:

Just have someone provide the documentation that Towner's camera shot at 24 FPS.

I don't need to contact Gary. I've supplied my documentation/proof.

As far as I know, he's still trying to figure out why the limo movement animation I presented of frame 161-166 doesn't match the WC " Vehicle Speed Analysis" document supplied by Tom Purvis.

Why don't you contact him.

Eventually, the truth was going to come out, it was just a matter of time.

Well, Time's up!!!

chris

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BTW,

For those that might not see the big picture in this, since Myer's has multiple films syncing with his presentation, from beginning to end, and the

syncing is wrong based on the incorrect FPS used, all films involved are wrong.

Which means they have all been tampered with.

This one's for you, JACK.

cheers

chris

A study was done on this site with the Nix, Zapruder, Muchmore, (possibly another one???) and they used the right camera speeds and they were found to be in sync. You might wish to have someone like Mack (or even contact) to make sure that you have your facts correct.

Bill

For those that would like to read/obtain the document created by Dale Myer's, from which I have posted previously, you can get it here:

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics.htm

Bill,

It's simple:

Just have someone provide the documentation that Towner's camera shot at 24 FPS.

I don't need to contact Gary. I've supplied my documentation/proof.

As far as I know, he's still trying to figure out why the limo movement animation I presented of frame 161-166 doesn't match the WC " Vehicle Speed Analysis" document supplied by Tom Purvis.

Why don't you contact him.

Eventually, the truth was going to come out, it was just a matter of time.

Well, Time's up!!!

chris

Eventually, the truth was going to come out, it was just a matter of time.

Well, Time's up!!!

Time expired long ago!

Merely takes additional time for the facts and history to "correct" and upright themselves.

Not unlike:

The World is flat!

The Earth is the center of the Universe

And what it took to get scientist to admit to a variety of things which include the Tetonic Plate theory of the Earth's crust.

So much mud & BS has been spread to date in regards to "alteration", that any new concept will have a total uphill battle to gain support and recognition.

Those in the LNer crowd such as DVP (the Parrot) will be attempting to throw mud on anything new, as will the completely asinine CT crowd who have that information conflict with and/or contradict their often silly unsupported theories as to reasons for potential alteration.

I wish you all the luck in the world Chris, you have worked hard on this.

However, you may rest assured that the battle has only begun.

My stuff, for whatever it is or may be worth, was packed away many years ago as there was no means by which to actually spread it around to seriously inclined persons who demonsrated a true interest in research.

Specter & Company could not have envisioned the computer and the internet, and it will ultimately be their downfall if those who know the WC is a lie will cease to chase mythological theories; assassins; etc. and concentrate on the facts.

Hope that in some minor way, I have opened a door or two for you.

Tom

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trash talk? Grow up son..... the slides and the trannies are at the 6th floor museum.... Been there for years! You didn't know that?

Now you've got a bit of work to do proving the DP films can be synced.

David, just as I asked in another thread ... show us where you requested to see these slides and the reply you got in return. Better yet, tell us where you got the information that the Museum had the Life Magazine slides?? I see that you now have someone like poor Tom Kiehl all confused on what is truth and what is pure disinformation. I find it amazing that some people just embrace the stupid stuff that is said as if it is gospel without so much as double checking to see if you are right or not. The JFK assassination for some isn't an inquiry as much as it is a belief system in place for the cult minded individuals who post such garbage without first getting their facts straight. Someone please canvas John Simkin and seen if he will create a section for people who just wish to post anything and everything without so much as having a shred of proof to support what they say. Maybe Kiehl can post where he bothered to find out where those slides are ... I look forward to hearing what he discovered! (eyes-rolling~)

Bill Miller

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name='David G. Healy' post='146679' date='Jun 2 2008, 05:25 AM']"...the slides and the trannies are at the 6th floor museum....

I suspect we are about to see an entirely different kind of tourist at the Sixth Form Museum. Will Dallas ever be the same again?

Paul

Can any of you people post when and who you spoke with that makes you believe that the Museum has the Life Magazine slides in question or has this just become the 'say anything and to hell with it being true or not forum'? There seems to be a common these with a select few here to where they will bitch and complain about things that they obviously know nothing about. If any of you wish to prove me wrong, then simply reference when and to whom a request was made to the 6th Floor Museum asking to see the Life Magazine slides. I have done this and thats how I discovered who actually has the slides.

Bill Miller

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Bill,

It's simple:

Just have someone provide the documentation that Towner's camera shot at 24 FPS.

I don't need to contact Gary. I've supplied my documentation/proof.

Well this is for people who don't wish to remain ignorant of any data that may help them in their research ...

Gary Mack: Tina's story never changed: she stopped filming and a second or two later, the first shot sounded. She has given various versions over the years, sometimes using the word "immediately" rather than seconds. We've known each other since 1978 and have been good friends ever since.

When I transferred her original film to video several years ago, the technician and I paid close attention to an early scene on the reel of she and her father in a motel swimming pool, splashing water around. We adjusted the transfer speed to about 20fps to where the motion of the water looked normal.

But the Dealey Plaza footage was at the end of the reel and, as is well-known from camera tests of Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore, camera speeds varied by 5% or more from beginning to end and each film scene speed depends on several variables. Our transfer of the entire Towner reel was made at 20 fps, which is more than 10% faster than normal (which was almost certainly 18fps). The transfer probably shows the limo moving too fast. That, of course, is not a significant visual problem but it would wreak havoc with anyone using the video transfer to establish the camera's true speed.

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Bill,

It's simple:

Just have someone provide the documentation that Towner's camera shot at 24 FPS.

I don't need to contact Gary. I've supplied my documentation/proof.

Well this is for people who don't wish to remain ignorant of any data that may help them in their research ...

Gary Mack: Tina's story never changed: she stopped filming and a second or two later, the first shot sounded. She has given various versions over the years, sometimes using the word "immediately" rather than seconds. We've known each other since 1978 and have been good friends ever since.

When I transferred her original film to video several years ago, the technician and I paid close attention to an early scene on the reel of she and her father in a motel swimming pool, splashing water around. We adjusted the transfer speed to about 20fps to where the motion of the water looked normal.

But the Dealey Plaza footage was at the end of the reel and, as is well-known from camera tests of Zapruder, Nix and Muchmore, camera speeds varied by 5% or more from beginning to end and each film scene speed depends on several variables. Our transfer of the entire Towner reel was made at 20 fps, which is more than 10% faster than normal (which was almost certainly 18fps). The transfer probably shows the limo moving too fast. That, of course, is not a significant visual problem but it would wreak havoc with anyone using the video transfer to establish the camera's true speed.

"Gary Mack: Tina's story never changed: she stopped filming and a second or two later, the first shot sounded. She has given various versions over the years, sometimes using the word "immediately" rather than seconds. We've known each other since 1978 and have been good friends ever since.

When I transferred her original film to video several years ago, the technician and I paid close attention to an early scene on the reel of she and her father in a motel swimming pool, splashing water around. We adjusted the transfer speed to about 20fps to where the motion of the water looked normal. ..."

**********

that's called film alteration, Wild Bill.... (and the piece ended up on that videotape at 30fps or 29.97fps, eh?) You or Gary care to comment?

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It is fantasy to say that any movie cameras ran at 18 fps. My studies of cameras

of that period showed these standard speeds:

16 fps...normal on some cameras

24 fps...normal on some cameras

48 fps...SLOW MOTION on most cameras

Note that both 16 (3x) and and 24 (2x) are multiples of 48.

18 is not.

Jack

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