JFK murdered by Foreign Intelligence Operations in the USA

[Jim Hougan]

Like you, I'm very interested in "the Jack Martin film." The Collectors Archive seems to have vanished, so I wonder if anyone has documentary evidence of the film or its provenance. My understanding is that it was provided to the FBI by "a tourist" named or called "Jack Martin," but I am not sure that the Warren Commission received it.

[Robert Howard]

Like you, I'm very interested in "the Jack Martin film." The Collectors Archive seems to have vanished, so I wonder if anyone has documentary evidence of the film or its provenance. My understanding is that it was provided to the FBI by "a tourist" named or called "Jack Martin," but I am not sure that the Warren Commission received it.

Hopefully, Bill Kelly can tell you a little about Jack Martin, although there are several, but you are referring to the Jack Martin who filmed in Dallas on November 22, 1963....

And let me tell you from having a detailed examination of this guy, he is in the middle of everything....

It would not be an exaggeration in the least to say that he had a "sixth sense" about the importance of Lee Harvey Oswald,

and yes, I am being facetious....Or rather, I believe he was just too "in the right place at the right time," that day for it to be "dumb luck."

The guy even had New Orleans connections....He is, how do you say, "all over the place."

Regarding the title of this thread and it's "seemingly incompatibility to a plot that was hatched by CIA Cold Warriors

and provided a role to the Secret Service and Army Intelligence and local right wingers;" the whole essence of the JFK assassination is summed up in one revealing insight.

There is not a point of historical reference to the type of assassination that resulted in JFK's death....

Although the Lincoln assassination.....if you believe John Wilkes Booth didn't have confederates and there was collusion

within Lincoln's cabinet, is something of that nature.

The point I am trying to make, is that for the sake of argument, IF and count me among those who believe the premise;

IF the assassination of JFK was a massive conspiracy.....the planners and specifically those who controlled those

at the lower level, were black ops specialists....

In other words, think of it as, can the average American even conceptualize what kind of cast of characters from A to Z would be involved in such a thing...No!

Another point and I detest using the following as analogous, but it just fits too well.

The scene in the movie JFK where Senator Long [Walter Matthau] is on the jet with Jim Garrison [Kevin Costner]

and the quote:

If I were investigatin', I'd round up the 100 best riflemen in the world and find out which ones were in Dallas that day."

The point is, if the braintrust of the US Government had acted as they should, [and read Manchester's Death of A President, to understand all the bigwigs in Washington were extremely worried as soon as Oswald was arrested

that the Dallas Police Department would not ensure Oswald's safety; period.]

The possibility of a Soviet or Cuban plot was ostensibly the dominant fear, to read the official histories, but

the persons who knew black ops never voiced a concern over a black operation or a banana republic style coup d'etat.

But what should have happened is what did eventually happen in the Philippines after Marcos' ouster in the "peaceful revolution" which resulted in the ascension of Benito Aquino's widow Corazon Aquino. She ordered an investigation and [bTW, there are striking similarities between the assassination of Benito Aquino on the tarmac of the airport in Manila and what happened in Dallas]

When Corazon Aquino convened the investigation, it led directly to the conviction and imprisonment of a large number of Marcos' General's and members of the intelligence network.

What should have happened is our government should have had enough integrity to investigate ALL the Intelligence

agencies and the Cabinet. With what we know now and what could have been done, the same result could have happened

as what took place in the Philippines in the aftermath of the short administration of Cory Aquino, as a matter of fact it was that event which led me back to doing JFK research.

I realize their are a lot of people who just read the books and examine the theories, but what I am really trying to say is that the assassination of JFK WAS a black op, and if the proper response had taken place, C.D. Jackson, Allen Dulles, David Atlee Phillips, and Richard Helms should have been detained and treated as suspects......

But the rub is, is that there was so many who knew in advance and who wanted it to happen of that group that the idea that those sacred cows in the intelligence agencies would even be questioned, let alone detained, was as about as possible as Goldwater defeating JFK in 1964 had JFK lived. Because to a great degree, THEY WERE THE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, albeit Dulles had been fired by JFK over the BOP, he did get a pretty nice cameo as a member of the Warren Commission

That Germanic themes pop up everywhere in the whole post assassination investigation is a clue in itself.

Lastly, as I write this, a bill has been introduced that, at some point will probably wind up on Pres. Obama's desk.

The bill has a provision for the "indefinite detention of American civilians without cause and without trial."

I find it ironic that one of the defenders of Lee Harvey Oswald was the ACLU and it is their heads up, that brought

this fact to my attention in the first place.

If you are interested here is one of several URL's...

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/9956-senate-bill-to-ok-indefinite-detention-of-us-citizens-without-charge-trial

In what may be a tale too bizarre to be believed by millions of Americans, the U.S. Senate appears ready to pass a bill that will designate the entire earth, including the United States and its territories, one all-encompassing “battlefield” in the global “war on terror” and authorize the detention of Americans suspected of terrorist ties indefinitely and without trial or even charges being filed that would necessitate a trial.

The bill could come to a vote as early as today, according to a bulletin issued by the American Civil Liberties Union. The legislation “goes to the very heart of who we are as Americans,” the ACLU statement said, describing the bill as having moved toward passage while most Americans were celebrating Thanksgiving and a long holiday weekend for millions of U.S. workers. “The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself,” the ACLU warned.

Labeled the National Defense Authorization Act, S. 1867 was drafted in secret by Senators Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and approved in a closed-door committee meeting, according to the ACLU statement.

Where was the media on all of this

"Could come to a vote today"......?

Edited December 13, 2011 by Robert Howard

[Paul Trejo]

Like you, I'm very interested in "the Jack Martin film." The Collectors Archive seems to have vanished, so I wonder if anyone has documentary evidence of the film or its provenance. My understanding is that it was provided to the FBI by "a tourist" named or called "Jack Martin," but I am not sure that the Warren Commission received it.

Hopefully, Bill Kelly can tell you a little about Jack Martin, although there are several, but you are referring to the Jack Martin who filmed in Dallas on November 22, 1963....

And let me tell you from having a detailed examination of this guy, he is in the middle of everything....

It would not be an exaggeration in the least to say that he had a "sixth sense" about the importance of Lee Harvey Oswald,

and yes, I am being facetious....Or rather, I believe he was just too "in the right place at the right time," that day for it to be "dumb luck."

The guy even had New Orleans connections....He is, how do you say, "all over the place."

Regarding the title of this thread and it's "seemingly incompatibility to a plot that was hatched by CIA Cold Warriors

and provided a role to the Secret Service and Army Intelligence and local right wingers;" the whole essence of the JFK assassination is summed up in one revealing insight.

There is not a point of historical reference to the type of assassination that resulted in JFK's death....

Although the Lincoln assassination.....if you believe John Wilkes Booth didn't have confederates and there was collusion

within Lincoln's cabinet, is something of that nature.

The point I am trying to make, is that for the sake of argument, IF and count me among those who believe the premise;

IF the assassination of JFK was a massive conspiracy.....the planners and specifically those who controlled those

at the lower level, were black ops specialists....

In other words, think of it as, can the average American even conceptualize what kind of cast of characters from A to Z would be involved in such a thing...No!

Another point and I detest using the following as analogous, but it just fits too well.

The scene in the movie JFK where Senator Long [Walter Matthau] is on the jet with Jim Garrison [Kevin Costner]

and the quote:

If I were investigatin', I'd round up the 100 best riflemen in the world and find out which ones were in Dallas that day."

The point is, if the braintrust of the US Government had acted as they should, [and read Manchester's Death of A President, to understand all the bigwigs in Washington were extremely worried as soon as Oswald was arrested

that the Dallas Police Department would not ensure Oswald's safety; period.]

The possibility of a Soviet or Cuban plot was ostensibly the dominant fear, to read the official histories, but

the persons who knew black ops never voiced a concern over a black operation or a banana republic style coup d'etat.

But what should have happened is what did eventually happen in the Philippines after Marcos' ouster in the "peaceful revolution" which resulted in the ascension of Benito Aquino's widow Corazon Aquino. She ordered an investigation and [bTW, there are striking similarities between the assassination of Benito Aquino on the tarmac of the airport in Manila and what happened in Dallas]

When Corazon Aquino convened the investigation, it led directly to the conviction and imprisonment of a large number of Marcos' General's and members of the intelligence network.

What should have happened is our government should have had enough integrity to investigate ALL the Intelligence

agencies and the Cabinet. With what we know now and what could have been done, the same result could have happened

as what took place in the Philippines in the aftermath of the short administration of Cory Aquino, as a matter of fact it was that event which led me back to doing JFK research.

I realize their are a lot of people who just read the books and examine the theories, but what I am really trying to say is that the assassination of JFK WAS a black op, and if the proper response had taken place, C.D. Jackson, Allen Dulles, David Atlee Phillips, and Richard Helms should have been detained and treated as suspects......

But the rub is, is that there was so many who knew in advance and who wanted it to happen of that group that the idea that those sacred cows in the intelligence agencies would even be questioned, let alone detained, was as about as possible as Goldwater defeating JFK in 1964 had JFK lived. Because to a great degree, THEY WERE THE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, albeit Dulles had been fired by JFK over the BOP, he did get a pretty nice cameo as a member of the Warren Commission

That Germanic themes pop up everywhere in the whole post assassination investigation is a clue in itself...

Thanks, Rob Howard, for your feedback. I'd like to respond to a few of your interesting points:

1. It would be great to learn more about Jack Martin in this thread; I mean the Jack Martin who worked for Guy Banister, who was pistol-whipped by Guy Banister on 11/22/1963, who complained to Jim Garrison about it, and who eventually told Garrison everything he knew about 544 Camp Street on the condition of lifetime anonymity. This is the biography I want to explore more, because in my opinion, this same Jack Martin made the "Jack Martin Film" or home movie. If I'm wrong about this, I'd like to know how.

2. You suggest that the essence of the JFK assassination can be summarized in a sentence: that there is no precedent in history for it. I tend to agree; the first parallel that comes to mind is Nero's assassination in ancient Rome, when he was given up by his Praetorian Guard. But even with Nero, nobody proposed a patsy for it.

Also, whenever any US President was assassinated, the assassin always boasted loudly to the press that he did it, that the President deserved it, and that he would do it again. The JFK assassination didn't have that common scenario. It seems, rather, that whoever killed JFK was ashamed of it, and they wanted to hide their involvement at any cost. So this was a sort of underhanded, sneaky kind of assassination.

Also, because of the many loose ends that were so quickly tied up, it necessarily involved large numbers of people, and they planned each step meticulously. The closest examples I've read about were Italian mob hits that included patsies who were quickly killed. Also, the burning of the German Reichstag, probably by the Nazi Party, used a retarded patsy who could not defend himself and was quickly executed.

So, the closest parallel to an assassination of this kind, that I can think of, is the ZR/Rifle plan by CIA agent, William Harvey. (Now, I'm not saying that William Harvey was part of the ground-crew, only that the plan to hit Kennedy resembles his plan to a significant degree.)

3. In your theory, Rob, the conspiracy to hit JFK was a Black Op, and the planners and supervisors of the ground-crew were Black Ops specialists. This also agrees with Fletcher Prouty, who was very close to the events. Yet, for me, even Black Ops specialists take orders from superiors, like the Military Commandos who standardized the procedures during WW2.

I think you recognized, Rob, that the Secret Service isn't placed highly enough to coordinate all the loose ends of an action of this magnitude. Their manipulation was indispensible, but their control of the entire procedure would have been impossible. Yet the Pentagon is surely placed highly enough.

I don't accuse the Pentagon, directly. Yet the Pentagon is so large that its bureaucracy is as unweildy as any Corporation bureacracy, and bad guys can sneak around in a large bureacracy for a long time. All that were needed inside the Pentagon were a few highly placed bad apples, perhaps friends of an ex-General (like Walker) who had a strong, justifiable vendetta against the Kennedys.

This is not either/or. Fletcher Prouty also cited the General from whom he himself took orders. It was definitely a group effort.

4. You cited Senator Long, Rob, when he told Garrison that he'd round up the 100 best riflemen in the world and find out which were in Dallas that day. I would add an obserrvation. I would say that 100 of the best riflemen in the world lived in Dallas! There were so many members of the NRA, so many members of the Ku Klux Klan, so many members of the Minutemen, so many ex-Military men, including those who had served under General Walker, that nobody needed to go outside Dallas to find superb shooters with the utmost loyalty to their paramilitary leaders. This is a distinct possibility, in my theory.

5. The difference in the experience of LBJ and Corazon Aquino is this: Corozon knew she had a segment of the military on her side - a segment large enough to make the arrests of the assassinating Generals in her country. LBJ did not have this, because, I suspect, JFK did not have it. JFK had alienated the Pentagon for so many sequential months that his support dwindled to near-zero. The same applies to JFK's alienation of the FBI, of the CIA (i.e. Cord Meyer), of the Secret Service (i.e. those who procured girls for him), and so on. So, anybody who knew about this Dallas plot could fairly safely presume that nobody anywhere in the Government would break the silence. It was nearly unanimous - JFK had precious few friends in his own Government.

6. Was it Black Ops? Of course - but this does not link it onlyto the CIA. There are plenty of trained marksmen in the USA who practice with their rifles on a daily basis, and who are always available for a patriotic emergency. At this point, it is a matter of grasping their politics and their definition of a patriotic emergency.

7. And with a leader like General Edwin Walker, who was fiercely right-wing, the climate was too dangerous in Dallas for JFK to have ventured into that motorcade. That's my theory.

Best regards...

Edited December 14, 2011 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Here is a little more on what was happening behind the scenes on Edwin Walker's over the top problems with going against the president. It makes one wonder if the Kennedys wanted Walker to experience the ways of the old south with being accused of being mentally sick. Perhaps MLK taught JFK and RFK how the blacks were treated in the Southern US, and designed what was good for the Blacks in Slavery would be good for Walker to taste first hand.

=====

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/the-therapeutic-state/the-shame-of-medicine-the-case-of-general-edwin-walker/

I summarized the evidence for my view that psychiatry is a threat to civil liberties, especially to the liberties of individuals stigmatized as “right-wingers,” illustrated by the famous case of Ezra Pound, who was locked up for 13 years while the government ostensibly waited for his “doctors” to restore his competence to stand trial. Now the Kennedys and their psychiatrists were in the process of doing the same thing to Walker.

Instead, I proposed that they “nominate” a prominent Dallas university psychiatrist as their defense expert – that is, a local, publicly employed physician who could ill afford to declare Walker insane on the basis of his “racist” views. (Before the Civil War, proslavery physicians in the South diagnosed black slaves who tried to escape to the North as mentally ill, “suffering from drapetomania.” In the Walker case, pro-integration psychiatrists in the North diagnosed white segregationists as mentally ill, “suffering from racism.”) Next morning I flew back to Syracuse.

=====

Jim, the article you shared by psychiatrist Thomas Szasz, who moved to free General Walker from psychiatric imprisonment imposed by the Kennedys, is outstanding.

In my current opinion, the main motive for General Walker's participation (or leadership) in a conspiracy to kill JFK in Dallas on 11/22/1963, begins with precisely this incident of the Kennedys unjustly detaining General Walker for psychiatric examination.

This was no random psychopath - this was a former US General, heavily decorated for service to the USA in World War Two and Korea.

Allow me to share some more facts about Walker's case from Chris Cravens' 1991 dissertation, "Edwin Walker and the Right Wing in Dallas, 1960-1966".

Here's how the trouble started. The Kennedys were taking strident jabs at the John Birch Society (JBS) starting in 1960, and it just so happened that General Walker was a member of the JBS since the year it started. As the Commander of the 24th Infantry Division in Munich, Germany, he saw fit to circulate JBS literature in his well-known Pro-Blue program. Walker reasoned that since soldiers were risking their lives to fight Communism, that they deserved to know what Communism really was.

In response, in April of 1961 [corrected], the Kennedys relieved General Walker of his command and moved him to an isolated desk job. Walker had crossed the line, they said, when he called Eleanor Roosevelt and Harry Truman 'pink' in his memoranda.

Yet General Walker had plenty of friends in Congress and of course in his home State of Texas. Thirty Senators of the Texas Senate in May, 1961, for example, demanded reinstatement of Walker's command over the 24th Infantry Division. But to no avail. On June 12, 1961, the Kennedys formally 'admonished' Walker.

Of course, this was opposed in the Congress. Senator Barry Goldwater along with John Tower and Strom Thurmond, Bob Dole and Dale Alford were outraged. Public support of Walker was very high. Goldwater called the admonishment, "Muzzling the Military."

In response, near then end of October, 1961, the Kennedys offered Walker a transfer to Hawaii, and a promotion. But as November, 1961 opened, General Walker resigned.

I would emphasize that Walker was the only US General to resign in the 20th century. By resigning instead of retiring, he gave up a $1,000 a month pension (which amounts to $10,000 monthly in 2011 dollars). He was 52 years old. He explained his resignation saying that Hawaii was just a stepping stone to Vietnam, and he'd vowed he'd never enter into another undeclared war after Korea.

At this point General Walker began a successful speaking career on right-wing speaking circuits. At the end of 1961, Walker appeared on ABC television, on "Issues and Answers", where he declared himself a non-aligned anti-communist, period. Days later he was on the front cover of Newsweek (12/4/1961) as the face of USA rightists.

Walker's speeches were very well attended and lucrative for him. Thousands attended. Governors and Mayors would introduce him. He would get multiple standing ovations as he slammed the White House for: (1) accepting a divided Germany; (2) recalling MacArthur from Korea; (3) letting Cuba go Red; (4) the Bay of Pigs; and (5) Muzzling the Military. (In his first speech, the crowd applauded 109 times in 90 minutes, and there were fifteen standing ovations.)

After a particularly rousing speech in Dallas, Mayor Earl Cabell gave Walker the key to Dallas and a Stetson hat; this event was filmed and can be found on Youtube (see below).

As 1962 began, Walker was on 100 radio stations and closed circuit TV. (He was on the fast track to become the 'Rush Limbaugh' of his day.) He advocated only two groups: the JBS, and the Texas-based 'National Indignation Committee'. Followers convinced Walker to run for the office of Governor of Texas, so he entered the race against John Connally in March, 1962.

In April, 1962, Walker testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee, and its Subcommittee on Cold War Education. Senator John Fulbright complained that some Army Officers were taking political stands. Senator Strom Thurmond retorted that Fulbright wished to muzzle the military and demanded a vote on Officer Censorship. The Kennedys, fearing Walker could become a martyr, banned TV and Radio coverage of these hearings. The Senate hearing room was packed.

Predictably, Walker pontificated like Joe McCarthy, and was arguably making some progress, when suddenly, Norman Rockwell of the USA Nazi Party entered the Senate hearing room wearing full Nazi regalia and praising Walker to high heaven. Rockwell was quickly ejected, but the damage was done.

This public embarrassment contributed to Walker's poor showing at the polls, and he failed to win the Democratic nomination for Governor of Texas. Nevertheless, he continued his successful speaking tour. He developed a closer relationship with right-wing radio commentator, Bill Ray Hargis, and so increased his prospects of national fame and wealth.

Walker set up 'Friends of Walker' clubs throughout Texas, based in Dallas. He started the American Eagle Publishing Company. He erected a billboard on his front lawn on Turtle Creek Road. He changed the message weekly, viz:

* The UN is Treason

* Impeach Earl Warren

* Dump Estes

* Sodom, Gomorrah or Wallace

However, everything changed on September 10, 1962, when Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black decided in favor of James Meredith, a Negro Air Force veteran, who sued to attend Oxford University in Mississippi. He had been rejected only on racial grounds

On 9/13/1962, Mississippi Governor Ross Barnett announced he would fight the Supreme Court.

On 9/26/1962, Walker went on radio KWKH and exclaimed:

- "It is time to move!

- "We have talked, listened and been pushed around far too much by the Antichrist Supreme Court!

- "Rise to stand beside Governor Ross Barnett at Jackson Mississippi!

- "Now is the time to be heard!

- "Ten thousand strong from every State in the Union!

- "Rally to the cause of Freedom!

- "The Battle Cry of the Republic!

- "Barnett, yes, Castro, no!

- "Bring your flags, your tents and your skillets!

- "It is time!

- "Now or never!"

When the Associated Press asked Walker if he wanted his followers to bring guns, he said, "That's up to them!" Walker said he opposed forced integration. This was about States' Rights.

On 9/28/1962 Walker flew a private plane to Jackson, Mississippi. He called for a "national uprising against the conspiracy from within!" He warned that thousands were coming. He warned that "any violence would start with the Feds!"

On 9/29/1962 JFK told hundreds of Federal Marshalls to proceed to Mississippi. That evening a riot broke out on the Oxford campus. On the lawn outside the Lyceum building a hostile crowd of about 2,000 youths was chanting: "Go to hell, JFK! Go to hell, JFK!" They threw eggs, rocks and bricks at the Marshalls.

Kennedy came on national radio and defended his decision. He added that James Meredith had been in his dorm room for an hour, and still had Federal protection.

A newsman's car was trashed by the mob - and his camera was smashed and burned. Tear gas did not move this mob - one Marshall was wounded by a shotgun, but the Marshalls had orders not to return fire.

At 9pm Walker walked to the front of the mob, in silence, and surveyed the situation, and ultimately sent the mob home. The crowd booed and jeered and began to disperse...slowly.

But at midnight some stragglers were still trashing the campus. At 1:30am Walker went back to his Hotel. At 2am JFK sent in regular troops. Now the violence began; 106 Marshalls were wounded. One local citizen was killed. One French reporter was killed.

Despite all this, on 9/30/1962, at 8am, James Meredith was registered as a student. By 9am the crowd was finally gone.

The Associated Press reported that Walker led one of the charges of the rioting students. The United Press reported that Walker advised the mob to disperse. The Kennedys chose to believe the AP. That morning Walker was apprehended by Military Police, and arrested by the Feds. RFK charged Walker with insurrection and conspiracy, based only on the AP story.

Bond was set at $100K, and Walker's brother quickly began to raise the bail, but RFK suddenly ordered the Army to detain Walker at the US Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, Missouri, which was a psychiatric hospital.

Walker was locked up under maximum security. Walker's lawyers claimed he was lucid, and Walker denied charges that he incited to riot.

Dr. Robert Morris reported that Walker was paranoid, because 'Walker thinks he's a political prisoner!' The JBS, under John Rousselot, considered expelling Walker from the JBS.

Ironically, the ACLU sued for Walker's release. Here was 'martyrdom' at the hands of RFK! This was the new 'psychiatric fascism'. Rightists fed the flames by charging that psychiatry makes people communists! Common sense agreed that if psychiatry were ever to become a political weapon, it would necessarily be an evil force.

On Wednesday 3, 1962, according to one report, Katzenbach tried to make a deal with Walker: freedom in exchange for silence. Walker replied: This is blackmail! Go to hell!

On Sunday, October 7, 1962, Walker was released. He returned to Dallas to a hero's welcome; 3,000 admirers and US flags flying. After a local doctor pronounced Walker to be 'very fit,' Walker immediately began giving speeches again. John Rousselot and the JBS changed their mind and fully reinstated Walker with all honors.

On January 21, 1963, the White House dropped all charges against Walker. Then Walker sued AP for libel. Ultimately he won and was awarded $3 million. But AP appealed to the Supreme Court, and ironically it was Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren who heard the case -- the very Judge for whom Walker had been demanding impeachment for years! Earl Warren threw Walker's case out of court, and Walker never saw a penny of that money.

Nevertheless, Walker returned to his lucrative speaking career, and continued to address thousands of people to standing ovations.

Everything changed once more for Edwin Walker when somebody (perhaps Lee Oswald, according to Marina) took a pot-shot at Walker at his Dallas home on 4/10/1963.

Later in 1963, former General Edwin Walker could be found in New Orleans, Louisiana, and according to the late Gerry Hemming (a former member of this Forum), was also seen at Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana, the site of a Cuban Exile Training Camp led by David Ferrie and Guy Banister.

Be that as it may - less than 24 hours after the assassination of JFK (as shown by FBI records available on the Mary Ferrell web site) General Walker conversed with neo-Nazi news editor, Helmut Muench, and told him that 'the same assassin who killed JFK was the same person who shot at me on 4/10/1963.'

We know this because Muench's newspaper, the Deutsche NationalZeitung, assigned newsman Hasslo Thorsten to interview Walker at length, and published this long interview in its 11/29/1963 issue. This issue is also among the FBI records.

So - even though the US conspirators were the leaders and did not need international support, nevertheless, it appears that at some level they had international support, anyway.

Anyway - there's the background to Walker's psychiatric incarceration by the Kennedys, Jim. Thanks for the Szasz article on Walker.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo, MA

<edit typos>

P.S. Here's Walker getting an award from Dallas Mayor Earl Cabell:

Edited February 22, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[William Kelly]

Not mentioned in the above reports are the roles of Larrie Schmidt and those who left the US military in Germany with the expressed purpose of infiltrating and taking over conservative organizations in USA, including Young Americans for Freedom and Walker's group, and the fact that the doctor at the Springfield federal medical facility, after the assassination, sent the Warren Commission a report on those incarcerated there who threatened the president, and most of them were former or active soldiers.

BK

JFKcountercoup

[Jim Phelps]

Hello Paul,

Happy 2012 to you. Always good to read your replies to items posted and pleased that you liked the read on the finer details of Gen. Walker's Nut House visit. There is no doubt that Walker's Rebel Rousing on the US side of things had half of Congress upset, plus the JCS (like Lemnitzer and LeMay). It certainly had the JBS society crying out the Reds are coming and half the Latter Day Saints along with them.

Walker was being insubordinate to JFK and the affairs of state and the Walker side wanted lots of escallations against Communism and the JFK side was working the Peace issues and Co-Existance with Communism. JFK, like his best teacher FDR wanted Colonization phased out of existance Yes, there was certainly a huge domestic bunch that came to want JFK dead, and their theme was JFK was a Communist.

But, one not only has to study the US history for the run up on the JFK hit, but also a good bit of the Middle East problems. Recall, PERMINDEX was after DeGaulle and the main reason they were after DeGaulle was that Algeria was an Arab Country and at the time Israel was having all kinds of problems with the Arab states wanting them pushed into the Mediterranean. So, when DeGaulle added one more free Arab state wanting the same thing as Egypt, that was the last straw for the PERMINDEX anti-Arab gang trying to back up Israel. Add on that DeGaulle dropped helping Israel with Dimona and it gets real close to the JFK hit theme.

It didn't stop there, as Israel had been in a huge mess with four Arab states when they first came into existance, by doing terrorism against the British, and they bailed out with things in a mess. JFK was playing more Pro-Arab things to get into sweet spots of oil, and not paying much attention to Israel's continuing mess. JFK and person like his Catholic pal James Forrestal believed the Arabs would Push the Jewish into the Med., so this didn't sit well with the Israelis from day one.

Add in that JFK went to Berlin to make good with the Germans, and the Germans were busy helping Egypt's Nasser with rocket weapons to use on Israel and JFK had Israels strike two against him. Ben Gurion was up in arms with JFK over the Germans helping Nasser with rocket designs, and JFK didn't care much. When JFK was killed one of the Israeli high ups was running around the US campaigning for joint efforts against the Arabs. They well knew JFK was going to be out and had already been laying down the new ground ideas.

Now, move on into the mess with the Israeli side wanting their own nuclear weapons so they could stand off the Arab states in the same way that nuking Japan stood down all their resistance from the immense power of the Bomb. JFK was dead set against nuclear proliferation by a US Ally on Russia's back doorstep as he was in enough problems with the Jupiter Nuclear Missiles on Turkey. JFK's insistance on pushing to expose the Israeli Nuclear Bomb was the last straw for the Israeli gang, and they said JFK threatened their existance. So, just like the Israeli interests in PERMINDEX went after DeGaulle, they went after JFK with a 10 times larger passion to kill him.

So, why should the Domestic side, interested in killing JFK, not make use of the Foreign Interests that tried to off DeGaulle. All they had to do was offer networking for the cover up and fake story to frame LHO. All that had to do was connect up crooked LBJ and his crooked side-kick neighbor Hoover. But the US and NAZI connected intelligence side in Dallas was more than a little carefull of the Jewish PERMINDEX elements, as if the LHO fake plan failed, the fingers would point at the Dallas Gang. So, they made sure to toss in a good load of Jewish issues into the JFK hit, this was Weissman's Communist ad, shots fired from Dal-Tex and the building owned by Jaffee, they had Jack Ruby in there, they had Joe Milteer telling the Big Jew story, and finially Zapruder's Israeli memorial of the day JFK died. Ruby and Zapruder had White Russian connections in Dallas.

If you put together both the Domestic and the Foreign factors all tends to fall into place. Jack Ruby is all up in arms that there would be Pogroms against the Jewish if he didn't kill LHO. Plus, he is all bent out of shape for the position the JBS placed him in as they framed up the Jewish elements along with LHO, just in case. The JFK hit plan had messed up good when LHO lived, so that back up plan to get Ruby to off LHO was essential.

Hunt and Walker were none to dumb to use their own folks to knock off JFK, when the rabid elements on the PERMINDEX Zionism issues were easy enough to help kick off the killing of JFK.

I think you will find the following somewhat official write up on Isreal's nuclear thinking to be of great interest:

======

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm

As Zionists in Palestine watched World War II from their distant sideshow, what lessons were learned? The soldiers of the Empire of Japan vowed on their emperor's sacred throne to fight to the death and not face the inevitability of an American victory. Many Jews wondered if the Arabs would try to push them into the Mediterranean Sea. After the devastating American nuclear attack on Japan, the soldier leaders of the empire reevaluated their fight to the death position. Did the bomb give the Japanese permission to surrender and live? It obviously played a military role, a political role, and a peacemaking role. How close was the mindset of the Samurai culture to the Islamic culture? Did David Ben-Gurion take note and wonder if the same would work for Israel?[2] Could Israel find the ultimate deterrent that would convince her opponents that they could never, ever succeed? Was Israel's ability to cause a modern holocaust the best way to guarantee never having another one?

=======

Also, study some of the Egypt's Nasser history and how Nasser swang to the Socialist side of things to fence out the Capitalists games there.

Isreal's existance war:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/isdf/text/gelber.html

View from the other side:

http://www.nfuu.org/Palestineto1948.htm

Forrestal's feelings and why he was choked and tossed out a window:

http://books.google.com/books?id=z0ZCxForm1cC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=Clark+Clifford+Arabs+push+Jews+into+Mediterranean&source=bl&ots=IVQi--n0i1&sig=zL-B1

======

So, factor into the equation, that after JFK gets killed, the Isreal area gets into the Six Day war and shoots up the USS Liberty over spying on the Israeli movements, and LBJ does nothing.

Israel also gets into another Arab war in Nixon's time and Nixon's sends them twice the weapons they needed to recover from that. There was no real reason for either of them to provide that much help but for what the Israeli's knew of the special deal in Texas that killed JFK, which could well hang both LBJ and Nixon, if it came out. Nixon's big fear was that someone at the DNC put together the Dallas equition with NAZI and Israel elements in Dallas working together to off JFK.

Thus, the JFK was not simply a USA domestic problem, but one that involved Foreign Espionage/Intelligence groups and especially the one that supported Israel historically, no matter what---PERMINDEX. PERMINDEX had well invaded the US after DeGaulle had almost all of Europe after them. LHO appeared to spend more time serving the PERMINDEX interests in Russia than any CIA mission.

Dallas was a very complicated zone, with lots of old NAZIs around (Dornberger), lots of their old White Russian spy network types hanging around (de Moherenshildt), and Ferenc Nagy in Dallas and Jean DeMenil in Houston (with PERMINDEX Espionage). In Dallas, to kill JFK the Criminally Corrupt element in the JFK adminstration (LBJ, Hoover) teamed up Organized Crime's crooks (Lansky, Ruby, New Orleans and Miami Mob) and both worked with the Foreign Espionage unit PERMINDEX. LHO found himself in the middle of that triad with no way out, to the point that Ruby had to kill LHO to keep the back up play from firing on the Jewish elements in PERMINDEX.

Both factions in PERMINDEX wanted the LHO diversion to work, but just in case the NAZI side wanted to have a next better play. It became essential for their cause.

[Paul Trejo]

Thanks for the timeline Paul. However, you have a small error at the top;

you said that Kennedy relieved Walker in August 1960. Since JFK wasn't

elected yet, I think you meant to say April of 1961.

Oops! Yes, you're right, Tom. It was actually on April 17, 1961 that JFK and McNamara relieved Walker of his command of the 24th Division there in Augsburg, Germany, pending a review of the allegations that he had called Harry Truman and Eleanor Roosevelt "pink" to his troops in his Pro-Blue campaign.

While the investigation of Walker was in progress, Walker was transferred to a desk job in Heidelberg, Germany.

What actually happened in April of 1960 was that Walker started his Pro-Blue campaign there in Germany.

Thanks for the correction,

--Paul

[William Kelly]

Thanks for the timeline Paul. However, you have a small error at the top;

you said that Kennedy relieved Walker in August 1960. Since JFK wasn't

elected yet, I think you meant to say April of 1961.

Oops! Yes, you're right, Tom. It was actually on April 17, 1961 that JFK and McNamara relieved Walker of his command of the 24th Division there in Augsburg, Germany, pending a review of the allegations that he had called Harry Truman and Eleanor Roosevelt "pink" to his troops in his Pro-Blue campaign.

While the investigation of Walker was in progress, Walker was transferred to a desk job in Heidelberg, Germany.

What actually happened in April of 1960 was that Walker started his Pro-Blue campaign there in Germany.

Thanks for the correction,

--Paul

Didn't something else happen on April 17, 1961?

BK

[Paul Trejo]

...What actually happened in April of 1960 was that Walker started his Pro-Blue campaign there in Germany.

Didn't something else happen on April 17, 1961?

BK

Right you are, Bill. On April 17, 1961, the Bay of Pigs invasion commenced, and was quickly thwarted, much to the humiliation of JFK, the CIA and the entire USA.

--Paul

[Paul Trejo]

Not mentioned in the above reports are the roles of Larrie Schmidt and those who left the US military in Germany with the expressed purpose of infiltrating and taking over conservative organizations in USA, including Young Americans for Freedom and Walker's group, and the fact that the doctor at the Springfield federal medical facility, after the assassination, sent the Warren Commission a report on those incarcerated there who threatened the president, and most of them were former or active soldiers.

BK

JFKcountercoup

Right again, Bill. Dick Russell in his excellent research book, "The Man Who Knew Too Much" (1992) gives a good accounting of Larrie Schmidt and his brother Bob in 1963.

Starting around page 320, Dick Russell finds Larrie Schmidt moving to Dallas in October, 1962. He was a US military kid who'd served two tours of duty in Munich and had great ambitions of being a right-wing leader. He started an organization named Conservatism USA (CUSA) and their goal was to infiltrate rightist groups in the USA to consolidate them all under Larrie Schmidt.

In Dallas, Larrie sought support from HL Hunt. On November 2, 1962, he met with HL Hunt and General Edwin Walker. On February 2, 1963 his diary says: "We neet at the home of Robert Morris, who is Walker's attorney." On February 9, 1963 he wrote: "We infiltrated the head office of the YAF (Young Americans for Freedom). We will use their name on our letterhead from this moment on, since they have 50,000 members."

So, Larrie Schmidt was making fast progress. Larrie also received support from Charles Willoughby, a financier of the German ICDCC (International Committee to Defend Christian Culture) which was formerly a Nazi organization, but in 1950 became merely an Anti-communist organization.

The most famous member of the ICDCC in Dallas was Billy James Hargis who was the leader of the segregationist 'Christian Crusade'. (General Walker was not invited to join the ICDCC because he always sought the limelight.)

Anyway Larrie Schmidt was well-known for telling peeople, "My hero is Goebbels." What Walker didn;'t know was that, ironically, Schmidt and Willoughby were the ones who had attacked General Walker in Germany, by complaining to the State Department that Walker was pushing John Birch Society materials to the troops! (It was a case of right-wing against right-wing!)

Another fact about Larrie Schmidt was that he was the whiz-kid who was paid $1,500 by the JBS to write that famous Ad, "Welcome Mr. President" in the 11/22/1963 Dallas Morning News.

Anyway, in October, 1963, General Walker hired Bob Schmidt as his full-time chauffer. They had already taken over the Young Americans for Freedom as well as the National Indignation Committee, and now they were going after General Walker's "American Eagle" publishing house.

It is odd that HL Hunt was one of General Walker's biggest supporters, yet at the same time HL Hunt was also one of Larrie Schmidt's biggest supporters, and he knew that Larrie was very ambitious. To support Larrie Schmidt, HL Hunt paid Bradford J. Angers, PI, to hire Schmidt as a consultant.

After the JFK assassination, the FBI went looking for the Schmidt brothers. Brad Angers only found Bob Schmidt, who gave this confession: in early April, 1963, Larrie and Bob Schmidt collaborated with Lee Harvey Oswald to kill General Edwin Walker. They used the Schmidt's Ford sedan for the shooting. They used two rifles. Bob believed that Hunt knew about this.

When Dick Russell personally confronted General Walker about this story, Walker said, "Yes, Larrie took over the NIC and the YAF and came after me!" Russell asked: "is it possible that the Schmidt brothers joined LHO to kill you?" Walker replied: "I have been told that! They were plenty capable of working with LHO, sure. Several people investigated the shooting as best they could and raised that possibility! I think it is rather natural to suspect that they were helping him one way or another!"

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited January 17, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Hello Paul,

Happy 2012 to you. Always good to read your replies to items posted and pleased that you liked the read on the finer details of Gen. Walker's Nut House visit. There is no doubt that Walker's Rebel Rousing on the US side of things had half of Congress upset, plus the JCS (like Lemnitzer and LeMay). It certainly had the JBS society crying out the Reds are coming and half the Latter Day Saints along with them.

Walker was being insubordinate to JFK and the affairs of state and the Walker side wanted lots of escallations against Communism and the JFK side was working the Peace issues and Co-Existance with Communism. JFK, like his best teacher FDR wanted Colonization phased out of existance Yes, there was certainly a huge domestic bunch that came to want JFK dead, and their theme was JFK was a Communist.

But, one not only has to study the US history for the run up on the JFK hit, but also a good bit of the Middle East problems. Recall, PERMINDEX was after DeGaulle and the main reason they were after DeGaulle was that Algeria was an Arab Country and at the time Israel was having all kinds of problems with the Arab states wanting them pushed into the Mediterranean. So, when DeGaulle added one more free Arab state wanting the same thing as Egypt, that was the last straw for the PERMINDEX anti-Arab gang trying to back up Israel. Add on that DeGaulle dropped helping Israel with Dimona and it gets real close to the JFK hit theme.

It didn't stop there, as Israel had been in a huge mess with four Arab states when they first came into existance, by doing terrorism against the British, and they bailed out with things in a mess. JFK was playing more Pro-Arab things to get into sweet spots of oil, and not paying much attention to Israel's continuing mess. JFK and person like his Catholic pal James Forrestal believed the Arabs would Push the Jewish into the Med., so this didn't sit well with the Israelis from day one.

Add in that JFK went to Berlin to make good with the Germans, and the Germans were busy helping Egypt's Nasser with rocket weapons to use on Israel and JFK had Israels strike two against him. Ben Gurion was up in arms with JFK over the Germans helping Nasser with rocket designs, and JFK didn't care much. When JFK was killed one of the Israeli high ups was running around the US campaigning for joint efforts against the Arabs. They well knew JFK was going to be out and had already been laying down the new ground ideas.

Now, move on into the mess with the Israeli side wanting their own nuclear weapons so they could stand off the Arab states in the same way that nuking Japan stood down all their resistance from the immense power of the Bomb. JFK was dead set against nuclear proliferation by a US Ally on Russia's back doorstep as he was in enough problems with the Jupiter Nuclear Missiles on Turkey. JFK's insistance on pushing to expose the Israeli Nuclear Bomb was the last straw for the Israeli gang, and they said JFK threatened their existance. So, just like the Israeli interests in PERMINDEX went after DeGaulle, they went after JFK with a 10 times larger passion to kill him.

So, why should the Domestic side, interested in killing JFK, not make use of the Foreign Interests that tried to off DeGaulle. All they had to do was offer networking for the cover up and fake story to frame LHO. All that had to do was connect up crooked LBJ and his crooked side-kick neighbor Hoover. But the US and NAZI connected intelligence side in Dallas was more than a little carefull of the Jewish PERMINDEX elements, as if the LHO fake plan failed, the fingers would point at the Dallas Gang. So, they made sure to toss in a good load of Jewish issues into the JFK hit, this was Weissman's Communist ad, shots fired from Dal-Tex and the building owned by Jaffee, they had Jack Ruby in there, they had Joe Milteer telling the Big Jew story, and finially Zapruder's Israeli memorial of the day JFK died. Ruby and Zapruder had White Russian connections in Dallas.

If you put together both the Domestic and the Foreign factors all tends to fall into place. Jack Ruby is all up in arms that there would be Pogroms against the Jewish if he didn't kill LHO. Plus, he is all bent out of shape for the position the JBS placed him in as they framed up the Jewish elements along with LHO, just in case. The JFK hit plan had messed up good when LHO lived, so that back up plan to get Ruby to off LHO was essential.

Hunt and Walker were none to dumb to use their own folks to knock off JFK, when the rabid elements on the PERMINDEX Zionism issues were easy enough to help kick off the killing of JFK.

I think you will find the following somewhat official write up on Isreal's nuclear thinking to be of great interest:

======

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm

As Zionists in Palestine watched World War II from their distant sideshow, what lessons were learned? The soldiers of the Empire of Japan vowed on their emperor's sacred throne to fight to the death and not face the inevitability of an American victory. Many Jews wondered if the Arabs would try to push them into the Mediterranean Sea. After the devastating American nuclear attack on Japan, the soldier leaders of the empire reevaluated their fight to the death position. Did the bomb give the Japanese permission to surrender and live? It obviously played a military role, a political role, and a peacemaking role. How close was the mindset of the Samurai culture to the Islamic culture? Did David Ben-Gurion take note and wonder if the same would work for Israel?[2] Could Israel find the ultimate deterrent that would convince her opponents that they could never, ever succeed? Was Israel's ability to cause a modern holocaust the best way to guarantee never having another one?

=======

Also, study some of the Egypt's Nasser history and how Nasser swang to the Socialist side of things to fence out the Capitalists games there.

Isreal's existance war:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/isdf/text/gelber.html

View from the other side:

http://www.nfuu.org/Palestineto1948.htm

Forrestal's feelings and why he was choked and tossed out a window:

http://books.google.com/books?id=z0ZCxForm1cC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=Clark+Clifford+Arabs+push+Jews+into+Mediterranean&source=bl&ots=IVQi--n0i1&sig=zL-B1

======

So, factor into the equation, that after JFK gets killed, the Isreal area gets into the Six Day war and shoots up the USS Liberty over spying on the Israeli movements, and LBJ does nothing.

Israel also gets into another Arab war in Nixon's time and Nixon's sends them twice the weapons they needed to recover from that. There was no real reason for either of them to provide that much help but for what the Israeli's knew of the special deal in Texas that killed JFK, which could well hang both LBJ and Nixon, if it came out. Nixon's big fear was that someone at the DNC put together the Dallas equition with NAZI and Israel elements in Dallas working together to off JFK.

Thus, the JFK was not simply a USA domestic problem, but one that involved Foreign Espionage/Intelligence groups and especially the one that supported Israel historically, no matter what---PERMINDEX. PERMINDEX had well invaded the US after DeGaulle had almost all of Europe after them. LHO appeared to spend more time serving the PERMINDEX interests in Russia than any CIA mission.

Dallas was a very complicated zone, with lots of old NAZIs around (Dornberger), lots of their old White Russian spy network types hanging around (de Moherenshildt), and Ferenc Nagy in Dallas and Jean DeMenil in Houston (with PERMINDEX Espionage). In Dallas, to kill JFK the Criminally Corrupt element in the JFK adminstration (LBJ, Hoover) teamed up Organized Crime's crooks (Lansky, Ruby, New Orleans and Miami Mob) and both worked with the Foreign Espionage unit PERMINDEX. LHO found himself in the middle of that triad with no way out, to the point that Ruby had to kill LHO to keep the back up play from firing on the Jewish elements in PERMINDEX.

Both factions in PERMINDEX wanted the LHO diversion to work, but just in case the NAZI side wanted to have a next better play. It became essential for their cause.

Hello Jim, happy 2012 to you, too.

I find it interesting that the James Meredith + General Walker + JFK conflict happened exactly at the time as the Cuban Missile Crisis.

As if JFK didn't have enough trouble on his desk, General Walker chose to use the radio to call thousands of Militia minded youth to Oxford University in Mississippi to march against Federal Troops over the issue of one black student trying to enter an all-white University.

In a certain sense, this was a call to the Confederate South to rise against the Northern Yankees, again. Again, the issue was the equality of black Americans. If this is correct, then the riots at Ole Miss in September, 1962 represented the last gasp of the Civil War, as a ghost from the previous century.

Here was General Edwin Walker, who was the only US General to resign in the 20th century -- he resigned in protest of JFK's military policies. Just months before the Oxford Mississippi riots, Edwin Walker came in last in the race for Democratic nominee for the Governor of Texas. This means that Edwin Walker had plans to enter politics -- against JFK. Here at Ole Miss, Edwin Walker would make a highly visible national statement about the political differences between himself and JFK. If Edwin Walker has been luckier, he would have called forth thousands of disciplined fighters to overwhelm by sheer numbers the thousands of Federalized troops sent by JFK.

If Walker had been so lucky, then perhaps JFK would have blinked -- would have backed down -- would have agreed to go slower and take these matters to the State Courts for slower deliberation. If this had occurred, then Edwin Walker could have run for the Presidency of the USA in 1964. I speculate today that this is exactly what Edwin Walker had in mind. He left the Military to enter politics, and his ultimate goal in politics was the Presidency.

But who was his political model? Has there ever been a US President who was nominated largely because he kept an all-white University racially segregated? Yes, there was, namely, Woodrow Wilson, the Democrat who stridently kept Princeton University all-white in 1902. (Evidently, Edwin Walker believed that the USA still wanted this kind of President; that is why Walker ran on the Democratic ticket, although his politics were closer to the Republican party in 1962.)

Also, I believe that JFK and RFK made a terrific blunder by confining former General Edwin Walker to an insane asylum against his will. This was truly, as Thomas Szasz shouted, a political exploitation of psychiatry. If this sort of dirty pool was allowed to pass, then any party in power could imprison its political rivals by drafting partisan psychiatrists to his side. That is, if a Democrat could do this to his opponents, then what would stop a Republican from doing this to Democrats? Nothing. Even the ACLU shouted that this was an abuse of power.

The Kennedys could have taken former General Edwin Walker down if they had kept their cool -- but they didn't. They crossed the line of propriety and deprived General Walker of his Civil Rights. It simply did not matter that General Walker was trying to deprive James Meredith of his Civil Rights, because two wrongs don't make a right. Therefore, the Kennedys were obliged to release General Walker after only a few days, and to drop all charges! General Walker never paid any further debt to society for the role he played in the riots at Ole Miss.

Here is an anecdote in the psychiatric imprisonment of General Walker that speaks to this event. The date is October 1, 1962, when RFK convinced a Federal Judge to authorize that Edwin Walker undergo a psychiatric evaluation at the US Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, Missouri. When the press asked Dr. Robert Morris why he thought General Walker was mentally ill, he told the press, "General Walker believes that he is a political prisoner!"

Now, to those who were biased against General Walker, this might sound like plausible evidence that General Walker was paranoid. But for the objective observer, like Dr. Thomas Szasz and the lawyers at the ACLU, this was good evidence that General Walker was perfectly sane! This is because he actually was a political prisoner! He might have been an old-fashioned bigot, but there are not enough mental hospitals on earth to hold all the old-fashioned bigots. Being an old-fashioned bigot is so common that it must be regarded as one more example of normalcy. So, it was clear that the Kennedys had overstepped their boundaries and toyed with scientific tyranny. They played with fire and burned their fingers. They never spoke of it ever again.

On another topic - that of JFK and Israel. While it is true that JFK was not as an enthusiastic supporter of Israel as Truman or Eisenhower, nevertheless, JFK did uphold many policies in support of Israel. The elements in Israel that hated JFK were again the extreme right-wing of Zionists. Yet I repeat -- a PERMINDEX that included Jewish members was a tamed PERMINDEX, compared with its Third Reich incarnation.

In the same way, the extreme right-wing superstar, Larrie Schmidt, in his CUSA movement, made sure he included a few Jewish intellectuals in his ranks. In other words, after World War Two, these right-wing groups did not have the same contours that they held during the Nazi period. The same applies to PERMINDEX.

It was not so obvious that a marginal character like Jack Ruby would recognize this, however. The exposition of the Nazi Holocaust had only been exposed in 1945, less than 20 years before the assassination of JFK. Jack Ruby was, like most Jewish readers, still spinning about the images of the Nazi Holocaust. If he acted rashly in response to perceived Anti-Semitism, this was nothing unusual for his Jewish generation.

Yet even if there were Jews in the story -- Weissman and his "WANTED FOR TREASON" Ad, shots fired from Jaffee's building, Jack Ruby, Zapruder's memorial and Milteer's Big Jew story -- it was well known that the main enemy of the American right-wing was the Communist menace (and it was only the old-fashioned bigots who agreed with the Third Reich that Communism was Jewish).

I'm still not willing to regard the ground-crew as secondary and of minor interest -- as if any hit-men from any nation in the world would have been adequate to the job. This was not a Mafia-style assassination -- which typically uses hand-guns up close. This was a military-style assassination.

Also, I'm still not willing to imagine Nazi's and Israeli elements cooperating to do anything at all in this world. Where Germans and Jewish folks cooperate in any endeavor of any kind, I don't ever think of Nazi and Zionist -- I think of Americans and the American way.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo, MA

Edited February 5, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Mark Wengler]

Don't know if this group counts how about Organisation de l'armée secrète.

We know from other posting that a man named Michel Merzt or Jean Souter was deported right after the assassination and he worked for them.

Why was he deported so soon after the assassination ?

Also i understand that they also hated President Kennedy.

Did they have the means to pull off the assassination?

[Kathleen Collins]

http://www.abovetops.../pg#pid12892100

California Gov. Reagan and Senator Rousselot got into the PERMINDEX/Schlumberger's games to cover up the JFK assassination.

I'm just starting to read this thread, so it's hard not to say something someone's already said. Ronald Reagan. As Governor of California, Reagan helped squelch the Kennedy Assassination. According to his younger daughter, the Reagans had company over, a party, while the Kennedy news played on the TV. No one caring about it.

Is it possible that Ronald Reagan, as President Elect, had John Lennon killed, while Carter was still in as President? Reagan was asked about it and said something like it's a terrible thing. This as he's racing into a building with another man. A lot of reporters were there. They asked him if he still believed in the gun issue. President Elect Ronald Reagan said Yes. About 3 months later he himself is shot in the chest but survived it. I don't think it changed his mind any. Then the Pope got shot and also survived.

But with Ronald Reagan it has been said that George HW Bush was behind it. Bush wanted a New World Order. Reagan apparently didn't.. When Bush (HW) was becoming a candidate he chose Dan Quayle as his running mate. This was insurance so he himself wouldn't get assassinated. Bush went on the tarmac and told Reagan his choice. Reagan looked incredulous.

Could it be that a man I voted for in my naivete in 1980 killed John Lennon?

Kathy C

Edited February 5, 2012 by Kathleen Collins

[Kathleen Collins]

Then there appears this lead on Sir Han being connected to the California Del Mar race track and leds back to the same bunch of crooks trying to cut off anyhthing that traces back to them. Such as allowing RFK to make the presidency, which would have led to the crooks finding the electric chair in mass quantities.

Notice the common theme is diversion of the theme of the assassination onto that of the CIA did it or those associated with the US Govt did it.

I wish they had let Bobby Kennedy win the presidency. But as for all these "crooks" dying in the electric chair, I don't think that would happen. Because at that time there was too much death going on. His own brother, the Viet Nam war, MLK. I think the murder of John Kennedy truly affected him and made him a different person. I think he would be against the death penalty. Only George W. Bush killed lots of people that way.

Kathy C

[Paul Trejo]

In the six months that have transpired since this thread was active, I've changed my views about the Jack Martin film. Because the name Jack (John) Martin is so common in the USA, Harold Weisberg did some research in the 1960's to seek out the Jack Martin whose film links General Walker with Lee Harvey Oswald. He was a young man, in his mid-20's, a former soldier under General Walker, and a former Minute Man. He was born again and wanted nothing further to do with conspiracies and paramilitary training -- so he gave his film to Harold Weisberg.

However, Jim Phelps' theory about Foreign Operatives involved in the JFK assassination gets a boost from General Walker, because less than 24-hours after JFK was killed, General Walker called some newspaper contacts in Munich, Germany, and told them that Oswald was also the man who shot at General Walker on 10 April 1963. But Marina Oswald would not reveal that to the world until December 6, 1963. How did Walker know? And why did Walker share this with the Germans before anybody else?

The newspaper man Walker told was Helmut Muench. The pen-name of Muench was Haslo Thorsten, and the newspaper was the Deutsch National Zeitung (DNZ), formerly a Nazi newspaper. Walker was still vitally interested in German politics during his anti-JFK campaigns in the USA. Walker was especially interested in the Cold War politics of the Berlin Wall.

I don't believe the Germans were giving orders in this case -- but I believe Walker wanted to impress Germans above all others, because Walker's segregationist politics also held international interest. Although I don't have enough evidence for any proof yet, I suspect Walker's secret ambition was to run for the U.S. Presidency.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited May 21, 2012 by Paul Trejo