If Oswald Was an Intelligence Agent of Some Sort, How Was He Manipulated Into Being a Patsy?

[Paul Trejo]

The Cuban people are not stupid. How could any reasonable person think that with a history like Oswalds he would get in to Cuba. So Oswald is stupid?

John, I don't think Oswald was "stupid" so much as he was hopeful and authoritarian. If Guy Banister told Oswald it was possible to fake his way into Cuba, IMHO there is a good chance that Oswald would go along for the ride. Especially if there was any money involved.

With Clay Shaw on the project, we can be assured there was money involved.

In my opinion, Guy Banister probably told Lee Harvey Oswald something like this:

1. We have proof that any FPCC officer can get into Cuba through Mexico City with no questions asked.

2. All we have to do is sheep-dip you as an officer of the FPCC. Get you in the newspapers, on the radio even on TV.

3. Then, if you take all those clippings to Mexico City and show it to the Cuban Embassy, they'll roll out the red carpet for you.

4. Once inside Cuba, you'll be introduced to Fidel Castro as an honored officer of his beloved FPCC. Then you can kill him.

5. We will be on hand to rescue you. Once you're back in the USA, you'll get $100,000 reward, plus a parade, and we'll make you a Congressman.

Oswald was given pin money for this adventure. Money for an office, for fliers, for trips to Clinton, and so on. But the big reward would be at the other end. I think this was the reason that Oswald moved to New Orleans in the first place.

I should add that Guy Banister knew beforehand that this plot would fail miserably. The Cuban Embassy had an official list of FPCC officers, and nobody else could get away with claiming to be an FPCC officer.

So, was Oswald stupid? No, but I think he went along with Guy Banister's program to prove he had the right stuff; that he wasn't a coward. There were plenty of angles. (For one, Nagell said he told Oswald he would kill him in Mexico City if he succeeded in getting passage to Cuba. So, Oswald had that on his mind, too.)

Nevertheless, it seems clear to me that Lee Harvey Oswald failed to guess in September 1963 that he was being sheep-dipped to make him into the perfect patsy for the Crime of the Century in November 1963. It would dawn on him only in the last 48 hours of his life.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

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Edited June 12, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

No Oswald was not stupid at all, the explanation for his behavior is far to complex for forum posts. Of couse I disagree with Paul on his sponsors, but my version of exactly what Oswald was doing in

Mexico City is in NEXUS so I don't need to belabor it here. Fortunately Bill Simpich will carry the ball forward and publish ground breaking research on exactly what was going on in

Mexico City, hopefully by the end of the year.

Oswald stupid, no way, Inexperienced, a bit gullible and with a limited knowedge of what was going on around him...yes. Did he think he was going on to Cuba as a follow on to his

trip to Mexico City - no. Did he think someone might be taking him covertly into Cuba in late November - very possibly. Why I think that is in my books, thank goodness I don't

have to keep repeating it...grin.

-- Larry

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Did [Oswald] think he was going on to Cuba as a follow on to his

trip to Mexico City - no.

[...]

Larry,

I assume you mean that Oswald went to Mexico City for a reason other than to get into Cuba.

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited June 12, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

No Oswald was not stupid at all, the explanation for his behavior is far to complex for forum posts. Of couse I disagree with Paul on his sponsors, but my version of exactly what Oswald was doing in Mexico City is in NEXUS so I don't need to belabor it here. Fortunately Bill Simpich will carry the ball forward and publish ground breaking research on exactly what was going on in Mexico City, hopefully by the end of the year.

Oswald stupid, no way, Inexperienced, a bit gullible and with a limited knowedge of what was going on around him...yes. Did he think he was going on to Cuba as a follow on to his trip to Mexico City - no. Did he think someone might be taking him covertly into Cuba in late November - very possibly. Why I think that is in my books, thank goodness I don't have to keep repeating it...grin.

-- Larry

Larry, as I recall, Marina Oswald said that Lee took all his FPCC newspaper clippings from his August FPCC adventures along with him to Mexico City.

What do you make of that?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 12, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Larry Hancock]

Paul, actually he took along a variety of materials, all intended to establish his FPCC and related bonifides. There is some indication he also had a bogus

CPUSA card which throw the consulate staff off since there was no such thing. All this had to do with an FPCC related propaganda operation, likely

being run by David Philips as an offshoot of the CIA/FBI AMSANTA project which had been very successful at placing an FPCC sponsored double agent

inside Cuba. It was only one of a number of extremely aggresive MC CIA station operations being run against the Cubans at that point.

And yes Tommy, Oswald knew quite well it was unlikely he would get to Cuba on that trip, even if he had gotten the paperwork he had no money for

the travel or to stay in Cuba. And when the Cubans took time to check him out they would have quickly determined his FPCC links were bogus - plus

the only way to get in via MC was for actual pre-arranged FPCC sponsorship.

Newman, Scott and myself have all delved into the real reason for his trip, Simpich will be going further with it... Larry

[Greg Kooyman]

Paul, actually he took along a variety of materials, all intended to establish his FPCC and related bonifides. There is some indication he also had a bogus

CPUSA card which throw the consulate staff off since there was no such thing. All this had to do with an FPCC related propaganda operation, likely

being run by David Philips as an offshoot of the CIA/FBI AMSANTA project which had been very successful at placing an FPCC sponsored double agent

inside Cuba. It was only one of a number of extremely aggresive MC CIA station operations being run against the Cubans at that point.

And yes Tommy, Oswald knew quite well it was unlikely he would get to Cuba on that trip, even if he had gotten the paperwork he had no money for

the travel or to stay in Cuba. And when the Cubans took time to check him out they would have quickly determined his FPCC links were bogus - plus

the only way to get in via MC was for actual pre-arranged FPCC sponsorship.

Newman, Scott and myself have all delved into the real reason for his trip, Simpich will be going further with it... Larry

Larry,

I have read Bill Simpich's work online and found it to be very intriguing. I hope his research has been able to uncover more information about the mystery behind Oswald and Mexico City. I share the belief that has been often noted that the Mexico City story is the "Rosetta Stone" to the assassination itself.

From everything I have read about Oswald and the Mexico City visit, I still come away unsure as to exactly what Oswald was doing there. While I believe there is enough evidence to show that Oswald indeed applied for and received his Mexican tourist card, and most likely even traveled to Mexico City, I am still on the fence as to if he was the one who actually visited both the Cuban & Soviet Embassies. If I recall correctly, I believe Sylvia Duran's physical description of Oswald did not match the real Lee Harvey Oswald. But, I am not sure now if that is from her testimony while under arrest and the interrogation she endured at the hands of the Mexican secret police just after the assassination.

At any rate, I look forward to Bill's new book and hope it comes out soon!

[Paul Trejo]

Larry,

I have read Bill Simpich's work online and found it to be very intriguing. I hope his research has been able to uncover more information about the mystery behind Oswald and Mexico City. I share the belief that has been often noted that the Mexico City story is the "Rosetta Stone" to the assassination itself.

From everything I have read about Oswald and the Mexico City visit, I still come away unsure as to exactly what Oswald was doing there. While I believe there is enough evidence to show that Oswald indeed applied for and received his Mexican tourist card, and most likely even traveled to Mexico City, I am still on the fence as to if he was the one who actually visited both the Cuban & Soviet Embassies. If I recall correctly, I believe Sylvia Duran's physical description of Oswald did not match the real Lee Harvey Oswald. But, I am not sure now if that is from her testimony while under arrest and the interrogation she endured at the hands of the Mexican secret police just after the assassination.

At any rate, I look forward to Bill's new book and hope it comes out soon!

I also look forward to reading Bill Simpich's new book when it comes out. I'm currently digesting Larry's SMHT, and find it intriguing.

I'm currently focused on the argument of the short, blond "Oswald" in Mexico City described by Sylvia Duran, and shown to the HSCA by Fidel Castro himself. Presuming this is correct information, here is where I opine using Dick Russell's TMWKTM:

Richard Case Nagell warned Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans that if Oswald succeeded in getting passage to Cuba through Mexico City, that Nagell would shoot Oswald dead.

It was around that time that Oswald began to panic in New Orleans -- and he began to bother Marina Oswald with the crazy idea of helping him hi-jack a commercial airplane to Cuba. She told him he was nuts. At that same time, Ron Lewis reports that Lee Oswald was also bothering him about helping to hi-jack a plane to Cuba.

Ron Lewis told Oswald that he had to calm down -- because it was only 90 miles from Florida to Cuba, so Oswald only needed to hi-jack a small, private plane from a small air field, and it would make fewer headlines, which would be better appreciated by Fidel Castro's boys. (That night, if my time-track is correct, Lee Oswald was much relieved at home, and he reported to Marina that "Cuba is only 90 miles from Florida; did you know that?")

So -- it appears that Lee Oswald was worried that Richard Case Nagell was really going to kill him in Mexico City. If (and only if) this is correct, then we might suppose that Oswald hired somebody to take his place in Mexico City at the Cuban and Russian Embassies. (Much in the same way that Oswald hired a random stranger to help him hand out FPCC leaflets in New Orleans for the cameras.)

That way, if Nagell was going to kill anybody for gaining passage to Cuba, he might kill the imposter instead.

My methodology is Occam's razor; I want to use all the available evidence to make a scenario, leaving out as little as possible, and adding no new people into the story unless absolutely necessary.

This is why I hesitate to start naming CIA people high and low. We have enough people at the ground-level that we don't need to postulate any CIA involvement up to this point. Guy Banister is high-powered. Carlos Bringuier and Ed Butler were highly motivated, and had plenty of propaganda experience to sheep-dip Oswald. The CIA simply isn't mandatory as a hypothesis at the street-level at this point, IMHO.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 12, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Mark Knight]

Now, I don't want to bring up that one word again...but I'm pretty sure Oswald's camera was a Minox, and NOT a Minolta.

Again, this is the EDUCATION Forum. I would hope that the information posted would be correct. Posting incorrect information, for whatever reason, shows either an intention to mislead, or a policy of doing sloppy research.

Of course, if Oswald DID have a Minolta, I will delete this post and apologize.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

"It was around that time that Oswald began to panic in New Orleans -- and he began to bother Marina Oswald with the crazy idea of helping him hi-jack a commercial airplane to Cuba. She told him he was nuts. At that same time, Ron Lewis reports that Lee Oswald was also bothering him about helping to hi-jack a plane to Cuba."

The odds are none of those things ever happened - the plan to hijack a plane to Cuba.

Nor did Oswald threaten to kill Nixon and was locked in the bathroom by Marina. I asked Hugh Aynesworth, who in 1964 admitting to having sex with Marina Oswald, did he hear that story first from Marina or from "some other place." Aynesworth said he had heard that story about Oswald wanting to assassinate Nixon from some other place.

Nor did Oswald take a shot at Edwin Walker. Everything I have learned in JFK research tells me that is yet another posthumous lie about Oswald cooked up by the government and introduced into the historical record.

[Thomas Graves]

"It was around that time that Oswald began to panic in New Orleans -- and he began to bother Marina Oswald with the crazy idea of helping him hi-jack a commercial airplane to Cuba. She told him he was nuts. At that same time, Ron Lewis reports that Lee Oswald was also bothering him about helping to hi-jack a plane to Cuba."

The odds are none of those things ever happened - the plan to hijack a plane to Cuba.

Nor did Oswald threaten to kill Nixon and was locked in the bathroom by Marina. I asked Hugh Aynesworth, who in 1964 admitting to having sex with Marina Oswald, did he hear that story first from Marina or from "some other place." Aynesworth said he had heard that story about Oswald wanting to assassinate Nixon from some other place.

Nor did Oswald take a shot at Edwin Walker. Everything I have learned in JFK research tells me that is yet another posthumous lie about Oswald cooked up by the government and introduced into the historical record. [emphasis added by T. Graves]

Robert,

"HAVING SEX"?

Could you have said, "Hugh Aynesworth had a romantic relationship with Marina Oswald"? Or perhaps, "He had a one night stand with Marina Oswald"? Or perhaps "a tryst" or "a fling"? Could you have said that?

Or did you really, really, really feel that you absolutely had to use the phrase "HAVING SEX"?

Do you think you appear more "macho" by talking about this biological activity so bluntly and so often in your posts?

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Edited June 14, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Ian Kingsbury]

Tommy

Are you blushing?

Try Shakespeare for euphemisms .

The "act" differentiates between thinking and doing.

A man was arrested for a tryst with a camel? No dinner ,no candlelight

Just a good old fashioned trysting !.

I believe Chubby Checker built a career on it.

Ian

[Richard Hocking]

Tommy

Are you blushing?

Try Shakespeare for euphemisms .

The "act" differentiates between thinking and doing.

A man was arrested for a tryst with a camel? No dinner ,no candlelight

Just a good old fashioned trysting !.

I believe Chubby Checker built a career on it.

Ian

... and Fats Domino found his thrill on Blueberry Hill

[Ian Kingsbury]

Richard

What can I say boats get floated!.

Paul Trejo

Your western union man was Hamblen there is an excellent

Thread on this by Lee Farley and others it's called "show me the money"

Ian

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy

Are you blushing?

Try Shakespeare for euphemisms .

The "act" differentiates between thinking and doing.

A man was arrested for a tryst with a camel? No dinner ,no candlelight

Just a good old fashioned trysting.

I believe Chubby Checker built a career on it.

Ian

Yes, Ian. I am blushing. For Robert's sake. I feel sorry for him, one track mind and all.

--Tommy

PS: And speaking of "building a career on it," let's not forget Elvis "The Pelvis" Presley!

Hey, maybe that's it! Maybe Robert is just a frustrated, wannabe 1950's-style rock star!

Edited June 13, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Paul Trejo

Your western union man was Hamblen there is an excellent

Thread on this by Lee Farley and others it's called "show me the money"

Ian

Yes, I'm familiar with that thread, Ian, and it's fairly good.

Yet I think one aspect was omitted -- namely -- why did the authorities drag their feet when faced with a demand to review the Western Union records?

We know that Western Union wanted to be careful of its reputation for secrecy and confidentiality, because their income (and thus their survival) depends on their confidentiality. So, they wanted to make a big show to the public that the only way they would ever divulge secret details of Western Union transactions would be if the US Government gave them a court order -- a warrant.

We expected that. And then we expected to see the warrant. But nooo. Instead, we got a lot more resistance in general -- and why was that? I have an opinion:

IMHO, the reason that the authorities dragged their feet and refused to show the Western Union records was that the FBI themselves were the senders of those petty $10 and $20 checks to Lee Harvey Oswald.

That would also explain why C.A. Hamblen dragged his own feet, when asked point blank about his original claim that Lee Harvey Oswald was the guy who made all the commotion in his offices over his petty $10 and $20 checks.

In other words, the FBI told the Western Union they had better not show anybody those records, or else. Then, Western Union told C.A. Hamblen that he better not show anybody those records, or else. So to keep his job C.A. Hamblen had to go back on his original story, and claim, "I don't recall anymore." IMHO this hypothesis makes all these pieces fit together.

So, I believe the original story by C.A. Hamblen. I believe that Oswald retrieved petty checks from Western Union in Dallas. I further believe that the FBI was the source of those checks. I further believe that the FBI applied pressure on Western Union to withhold that information. I further believe that Western Union applied pressure on C.A. Hamblen to change his story to the Warren Commission.

I expect this will all be revealed in 2038, when the official Lee Harvey Oswald files are finally released.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited June 15, 2013 by Paul Trejo