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Ruth - a typewriter - 15 days


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Chris,

This analysis of yours is amazing. I mean, it's simple... but who would have thought to question the locations of a couch and desk? And who would have thought that a lie could be uncovered by doing so?

I'm sure this is a great discovery. After all, people lie to hide uncomfortable things.  But I'm not seeing what implications this lie has on the story of the Oswald's draft. Hopefully you have that figured out.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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3 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Are you sure that that thing on the left in the above photo is a desk secretary. Because if it is, either it is against the west wall (opposite wall from where Ruth said it was), or the arrangement of the desk secretary and couch are opposite of what Ruth testified to. As though Michael and Oswald never swapped their positions. You say it's the latter. I don't know how you determined that. But for now I'll assume you are right.

 

The little desk secretary was never on the west wall. It would have been an obstacle to travel between the front door and the kitchen.

Ruth's testimony is that the little desk secretary and the sofa exchanged locations, the sofa was moved to the north wall and the desk secretary was moved to the east wall. This would be their approximate positions in the museum today.

 

There's a double door at the front with a classic half-screen that could have been closed and the main door could still have been open. Ruth testified that the door was closed without being specific.

 

31 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Do you say that because there was no reason to lie about the furniture, and therefore the lie really had to do with the item of interest, i.e. the note?

I think a story was concocted about how the note was "discovered" and "acquired" and this false story had an unintentional consequence of contradicting observances made by experienced Detectives. I was looking for pictures of the little desk secretary when I first noticed the problems exposed by the Alan Grant photo. I literally tripped over that. I think the photo is the key piece of evidence and I don't know where it leads at the moment.

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The problem with the floorplan not lining up correctly, as seen in image above, has more to do with giving Marinja (the Marina Ninja) an opportunity to "slip" out. The actual front door, living room/kitchen doorway and backdoor all line up. With no actual door between the kitchen/dining area, no one could open the backdoor and exit unobserved from the front door. Move both the front door and the living room doorway over 3ft. and viola, the backdoor could now be opened unobserved.

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41 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

But I'm not seeing what implications this lie has on the story of the Oswald's draft. Hopefully you have that figured out.

 

That's the million dollar question, why was there a false story about the way Ruth acquired the draft?

Was Ruth snooping through Oswald's stuff in the garage the four days a week he wasn't there?

Was someone else?

Were things added to Oswald's stuff in the garage?

If Sandy Larsen had a bunch of his bags in my garage and the FBI came around to my house asking about Sandy Larsen... I think Sandy and I would have to be pretty good friends for the FBI to leave and not know about those bags.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

That's the million dollar question, why was there a false story about the way Ruth acquired the draft?

Was Ruth snooping through Oswald's stuff in the garage the four days a week he wasn't there?

Was someone else?

Were things added to Oswald's stuff in the garage?

If Sandy Larsen had a bunch of his bags in my garage and the FBI came around to my house asking about Sandy Larsen... I think Sandy and I would have to be pretty good friends for the FBI to leave and not know about those bags.

Chris,

If Ruth Paine fudged about why she snooped into Lee Harvey Oswald's private letter to the Soviet Embassy in Washington DC, it is probably only middle-class modesty.

Michael Paine did complain to Ruth that she was being too snoopy, and that she should mind her own business.   (He said he thought the greeting was, "Dear Lisa" instead of "Dear Sirs."

Ruth testified that she didn't snoop through Oswald's stuff in the garage.  So did Michael Paine.  As upper-middle class folks, they had this sense of propriety.

So, it broke Ruth's sense of propriety to snoop into Oswald's Soviet Embassy Letter -- but in a way, Oswald tempted her to read it.   She would glance over at him at her typewriter, and Oswald would move his body in the way of his letter.  Well -- she wasn't snooping -- until he made that hiding motion!

Then, for some inexplicable reason, Oswald left his letter by the typewriter -- for hours -- end even overnight.   So, early in the morning she could no longer resist the temptation.

As for anything added to Ruth Paine's garage -- yes, in my opinion we can say, based on WC testimony, that Lee Harvey Oswald at some point added his rifle to Ruth's garage.  He wrapped it in a blanket and left it on the floor.  He felt confident that the Paines were very private people who respected everybody's private property.

After all -- the Paines were taking good care of Marina and June and Rachel -- free of charge.   These were upper-middle class folks for sure.  They had THREE cars.  Yep.  Safe people.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

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49 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Then, for some inexplicable reason, Oswald left his letter by the typewriter -- for hours -- end even overnight.   So, early in the morning she could no longer resist the temptation.

Paul,

I've noticed that you've been reading a lot of PJM lately. Please stop. Inserting these fictional accounts  around uncomfortable truths doesn't persuade us here.

Typewriter............. used at dining table in kitchen/dining room

Oswald draft.........found where? Ruth suggests the living room, Hosty suggests Marina's bedroom, I suggested the garage.

No one but you thinks the draft was left "by the typewriter".

There's more fiction in your statement above but it's unrelated to this thread so I'm not going to address it here. I have no problems with you defending Ruth, I expect you will always do so but when you make stuff up, like you frequently do, I am going to call you out.

 

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On 8/19/2017 at 1:57 PM, Chris Newton said:

9. Sunday evening she decided to re-arrange furniture in the living room and asked Lee and Michael to help do so.

10. Just before Lee and Michael entered the room, she concealed the paper she had found earlier inside the little desk secretary.

11. Lee and Michael swapped the locations of the little desk secretary and the living room sofa.

12. The sofa was then located, (after the move), along the north wall of the living room and the little desk secretary was next to the east wall.

13. The arrangement would remain that way from Sunday evening, Nov. 10 through Ruth's WC testimony 4 months later.

 

Having established that none of the items, 9-13, are true, we are left with some major questions, some of which I touched on in recent posts in this thread.

Here are a few more:

Oswald had sent several handwritten letters to the Soviet Embassy in Washington, D.C., did it benefit Oswald to type this letter, at this time, tying him to Mexico and Comrade Kostin or did it benefit someone or something else?

I saw no analysis by the FBI to match the actual paper stock of the typed Oswald Embassy letter with stock available in the Paine household, why not?

Since the story we were told about the acquisition of the Oswald draft is untrue, is there any other part we should trust?

Was the Warren Commission witting and complicit, along with the FBI, in pushing this falsehood? Did they do so to "coverup" or further frame Oswald as the lone gunman?

What does this tell us about the Paine and Hosty relationship?

 

I think everything needs to be re-scrutinized and examined under this new light.

 

Could the typed letter have an earlier,  maybe late October, origin? Certainly.

The typed letter was intercepted  under HTLINGUAL. That means the envelope was secretly opened and the letter was taken out. And read. And copied. And re-inserted in the envelope and re-introduced to the postal system so that it could reach it's destination. There are a lot of opportunities in that process for a whole range of letter hanky-panky.

It's easier to forge a signature than an entire handwritten letter.

Edited by Chris Newton
punctuation
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19 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

...but who would have thought to question the locations of a couch and desk? And who would have thought that a lie could be uncovered by doing so?

Just to be clear, again. I was interested in the provenance of the last letter Oswald allegedly typed because many researchers, with greater minds than mine, had questioned it's authenticity.

Ruth Paine's testimony was utterly confusing to me so I decided to examine it in detail. Part of that analysis I did was to try to identify the objects that were germane to the story and at first, one of the most confusing aspects was that there were two "desk secretaries". Once it became clear that the big desk secretary was in the dining area and that another was in the living room, I set out to find the "little desk secretary" in a photograph. The Alan Grant photo is the only photo I could find and while examining that photo I stumbled on it's significance.

 

Edited by Chris Newton
inserted alan grants last name
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10 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Let me ask you this:  Do you think that the WC really knew this, and that is why they visited her house and took all those silly measurements?

Thanks Jim and that is a really good question.

I think the WC was working as hard as it could to frame LHO to the exclusion of all other suspects.

If we look at the Paine testimony taken that evening at the Paine residence, WC Counsel Jenner and SS Agent Howlett reference the couch issue in very pointed questions. I don't know how anyone could conclude that they were not referring to the Detective testimonies and attempting to discredit them.

starting here and continuing to the next page:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=43#relPageId=420&tab=page

MR. Jenner. May the record show, and I will ask Mr. Howlett if he agrees, that under those circumstances, with officers approaching from the west, that the ladies sitting on the sofa or couch could not have seen them as they approached from the west?

Mt. Howlett. No.

(the "circumstances" being that the couch was on the north wall, the door was closed, the drapes were drawn open, and the officers had parked their cars to the west )

I'd be curious to know who prepared the floorplan because it has some serious flaws unrelated to the "measuring". There's no way that is simply a mistake.

 

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11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

That is really good Chris.

They did know.  

Every time I think the WC cannot get any worse, it does.  Excruciating to think about it.  But its true.

CIA-did-it CTers are so dogmatic.

--Paul

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22 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

[To Paul:]  There's more fiction in your statement above but it's unrelated to this thread so I'm not going to address it here. I have no problems with you defending Ruth, I expect you will always do so but when you make stuff up, like you frequently do, I am going to call you out.


Oh, come on, Chris... he can't help his trejoizing.  :P

But it would be helpful if he were to write at the beginning of posts like that something like, "Note that there will be a number of trejoisms in this post."

 

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2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Is it just a coincidence that the furniture was moved the day Ruth allegedly found the letter on the desk secretary?

And what was the excuse she gave for that in the first place?

 

Two more good questions. I should have touched on this.

The only reason to add the "re-arranging" of the furniture was to provide an impetus. It was this event that triggers Ruth's need to steal the note in her story. She says she called Michael and Lee into the living room to help move these two pieces of furniture and just before they came into the room she opened the part of the desk secretary that flips down and slipped the Oswald draft inside. Could she have simply hidden the draft without asking Michael and Lee to move the furniture? Yes.

She "decided" to re-arrange the furniture per her testimony, no reason given. <insert standard sexist comment here.>

I believe that the furniture was probably first moved around by TV crews setting up the best shot and lighting in which to interview her and Michael at the Paine residence. There is a good modern example of this common practice below. The couch has been moved into the middle of the room in this example:

hqdefault.jpg

 

 

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