The Stamp on the Military ID card

[Chris Newton]

Just now, Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko said:

Possibility ratio: 100%.

Black Market?

Because they kept these cards supposedly in "the vault" and inventoried by number. You think they were easy to get? I posted the Regs in this thread a few messages back.

[Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko]

Read my last post it covers this matter.

[Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko]

You and I follow the rules and regulations but not all do. They should in vault out others hands which is why I laid into the airmen.

Now I know Roscoe White made references to his ability to do military cards and the only one having access to all the photos because he states he was the only one that knew how to do the photographic work. He showed Dee Dee how easy it was to put someone's head on top of another's body.

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Chris Newton said:

Question. How is Oswald's 1173 related to Operation Big Lift?

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/820932

That's a good question.

I don't understand the organization of ARRB or National Archive records. But based on the following, which I copied from this National Archives page, it appears to me that Oswald's 1173 (a copy of it? a reference to it?) is in the Operation Big Lift folder, which is in ARRB Box 122.

Box 122

• 4.50 Operation Big Lift
  • Army Intelligence in Dallas
  • Calvillo, Manuel
  • Duran, Silvia
  • Hoover, J. Edgar files
  • Hosty
  • JFK Medical
  • Johns Committee
  • Kefauver Committee
  • Lorenz, Marita
  • Mohr, John
  • NARA State Department Reco
  • Oswald DD 1173 Identification
  • SAIS

I guess this is what you discovered.

DD 1173 and some of the other items in the folder seem quite unrelated to Operation Big Lift.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Chris Newton said:

Relax. I'm not trying to start a fight. Maybe just a tiny chip.

Okay, I'm glad.

I am personally open to impersonators other than LEE after the Marine Corps years.

 

[Chris Newton]

38 minutes ago, Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko said:

I have this color military ID card and I am a dependent of retired AF CMSGT.

When I did security on the base I handle many ID cards foreign and homeland. It appears that whom ever manufactured this one never consider it would put in color for all to see but just a black and white copy.

My apologies Anna, Yes, we agree. Our best guess (from this thread) is that the card was originally created as a "one off" to only be used to get the passport. We were trying to figure out if Oswald could have acquired the un-laminated card on his own or if he must have had some assistance.

[Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko]

38 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

That photo is really black and white - the tinge of green isn't on the card itself and the photograph isn't of a sufficient resolution to see the detail on the high resolution color photo.

The Oswald ID would have been immediately taken away from him by any Military Guards on any US base - (I did that too!) it wasn't laminated.

Or talk his way through blaming ID personnel and that he was there to get it fixed.

[Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko]

9 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

That's a good question.

I don't understand the organization of ARRB or National Archive records. But based on the following, which I copied from this National Archives page, it appears to me that Oswald's 1173 (a copy of it? a reference to it?) is in the Operation Big Lift folder, which is in ARRB Box 122.

Box 122

• 4.50 Operation Big Lift
  • Army Intelligence in Dallas
  • Calvillo, Manuel
  • Duran, Silvia
  • Hoover, J. Edgar files
  • Hosty
  • JFK Medical
  • Johns Committee
  • Kefauver Committee
  • Lorenz, Marita
  • Mohr, John
  • NARA State Department Reco
  • Oswald DD 1173 Identification
  • SAIS

I guess this is what you discovered.

DD 1173 and some of the other items in the folder seem quite unrelated to Operation Big Lift.

 

Quite a few on here I wouldn't dismiss.

Actual only one JFK MEDICAL.

Goto bed for now I'm outside on porch and being eaten, plus hot. Nice chatting.

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Chris Newton said:

Actually I learned something interesting from that image. If you look at the box directly under the "AF" or the "N" you will see they are different on each card. Oswald's had a "full" box and Nagell's has two boxes. The cards are from two different "series" and versions. Oswald's is the version PRE 1961 and Nagell's is the version POST 1961.

 

Nice catch.

So Nagell's card was still valid in 1963. (IIRC, they expire after three years.)

 

[Chris Newton]

Just now, Sandy Larsen said:

IIRC, they expire after three years

per the Reg.s we posted earlier, not less than 30 days or more than 6 years.

The "series" of cards were numbered sequentially and the timing simply depended on when the format or layout of the form changed.

[Sandy Larsen]

12 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

per the Reg.s we posted earlier, not less than 30 days or more than 6 years.

Oh right, I forgot about the use of the card for contractors. Many of those would need the card for just short periods of time.

 

[Larry Hancock]

I wonder if this suggests that Nagell was helping Oswald practice faking ID using both their cards?

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, Anna Maria Kuhns-Walko said:

Thank you Chris. I was on here quite awhile ago decided to see how much has changed.

What you say concerning the blotches has many questions coming to mind for another time.

Here's a link that displays the ID and some of the other items that have been stained:

 

[Sandy Larsen]

5 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

I wonder if this suggests that Nagell was helping Oswald practice faking ID using both their cards?

I believe so, but I'm still trying to find wording to the effect in Dick Russell's book.

Here is something new I've found. According to Dick Russel, the photo on Nagell's copy of Oswald's DD 1173 is indeed a photo of Oswald, the same one used on his Marine "Notice of Classification" bearing the name "Alex J. Hidell." I have a hard time believing that because it appears to me that the tie was drawn in by hand... the top of the tie is at the same level as the bottom of Oswald's chin, which just doesn't seem right. I've looked at numerous photos of men wearing ties and none of them show such a thing. But I'll try to find that document nevertheless.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

35 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

According to Dick Russel, the photo on Nagell's copy of Oswald's DD 1173 is indeed a photo of Oswald, the same one used on his Marine "Notice of Classification" bearing the name "Alex J. Hidell."

Well, here's that photo:

So yeah, that's the same photo. But on this card the white semicircle corner has been cut off. And the corresponding photo on Nagell's copy of Oswald's DD 1173 has the shirt and tie drawn on by hand, and the hairline edited.

In summary, there is nothing new here. Dick Russell didn't notice that the shirt and tie aren't on this photo because the photo is cut off at the bottom. And he didn't notice the different hairline.