Did the Dallas Radical Right kill JFK?

[Jason Ward]

11 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Jason - you have no idea of the entitlement felt and fostered at CIA.  Ted Shackley is quoted as sneering at JFK after his death because JFK - who was only the POTUS - demanded photographic proof that there were Russian missiles in Cuba.  Dulles, who as an attorney worked for the Eastern money establishment, and for corporations like United Fruit that overthrew Central American republics, was not going to be dissuaded by a firing, when he could run an assassination plot from his home and from access permitted him to The Farm.  No one at CIA shut him out.  And the assassination was in the interests of the money powers Dulles had worked for since his youth.

Ok, thanks for your worthy points.

Jason

 

[Jason Ward]

10 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Jason,

Some People had already lost their jobs because of Kennedy. And some were so radically anti-Communist that they saw the Soviet Union as a bigger threat than even Nazi Germany. I'm talking about people like Allen Dulles who cared more about helping his Nazi friends hide their loot than about the Jews being gassed in Auschwitz.

Now Allen Dulles could just have enjoyed his retirement when Kennedy fired him - but instead he kept meeting his old friends and even took the job to sit on the Warren Commission - and then covered up the truth).

I'm not saying that Allen Dulles was the mastermind behind the JFK assassination (although I think that's possible. What I mean to say is that I think there were a lot of people in the CIA or other government organziations who really saw Communism as a mortal threat to Western civilization.

And that is exactly why it is so important to understand the events in Mexico City. By linking Oswald to the Soviets and the Cubans the plotters made sure there would be no honest Investigation and thus no risk of exposure.

Mathias,

Why does linking Oswald to the Soviets and Cubans ensure there will be no honest investigation?

Jason

[Jason Ward]

4 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

. ..

Or, Mrs. Paine found a job for Lee Harvey Oswald in the Book Depository just five weeks prior to the assassination. However, Mrs. Paine claimed that she has gotten an echo from Mrs. Randle, who in turn learned from Buell Wesley Frazier. Buell was a nineteen year old boy who came to Dallas recently. Somehow, it evaporated here.

...

 

 

Hi Andrej,

Thanks for jumping in the conversation!

Ruth Paine, Linnie Mae Randle, Buell Frazier, Roy Truly all verified the way and reason Oswald got the job.  You honestly believe all of these people are in on the conspiracy?

You believe that Ruth Paine is the first and last person in the history of humanity to be a CIA asset for which not one shred of documentary or testimonial evidence exists?  The only "evidence" Ruth Paine is in contact with the CIA exists in the fertile minds of conspiracy theorists - whenever there is missing evidence without which their pet theory falls apart, the default answer becomes "it was CIA, of course there is no evidence."  Convenient.  There are millions of CIA documents that verify easily every CIA agent, contact, asset, informant -- I work with them everyday.

Ruth Paine was nothing more than what she says she was.  

I appreciate your kind conversation, although of course I disagree!

regards

Jason

Edited October 11, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Michael Clark]

17 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Andrej,

Thanks for jumping in the conversation!

Ruth Paine, Lille Mae Randle, Buell Frazier, Roy Truly all verified the way and reason Oswald got the job.  You honestly believe all of these people are in on the conspiracy?

You believe that Ruth Paine is the first and last person in the history of humanity to be a a CIA agent for which not one shred of documentary or testimonial evidence exists?  The only "evidence" Ruth Paine is in contact with the CIA exists in the fertile minds of conspiracy theoriests - whenever there is missing evidence without which their pet theory falls apart, the default answer becomes "it was CIA, of course there is no evidence."  Convenient.  There are millions of CIA documents that verify easily every CIA agent, contact, asset, informant -- I work with them everyday.

Ruth Paine was nothing more than what she says she was.  

I appreciate your kind conversation, although of course I disagree!

regards

Jason

Jason, you are really sounding like you are a pickle from the same jar as Trejo. One of his many, but noteworthy, put-offs, is lumping everyone that doesn't buy his bunk as a CIA did-it CT'r. Feel free to grate your fellow forum members if you want to, just letting you know in case you missed it.

[Jason Ward]

13 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Jason, you are really sounding like you are a pickle from the same jar as Trejo. One of his many, but noteworthy, put-offs, is lumping everyone that doesn't buy his bunk as a CIA did-it CT'r. Feel free to grate your fellow forum members if you want to, just letting you know in case you missed it.

Michael,

 I call it like I see it.  

There are plenty of threads here for those who seek praise from the like-minded or who want reification for evidence-free speculation and imaginative theories.

Jason

Edited October 11, 2017 by Jason Ward

[George Sawtelle]

Jason

This is what you posted on pg 22.

"Dulles is a well educated wealthy man with zero history of murder or any serious crime."

"He had every bit the same aversion to murder and fear of the electric chair as every other socialized healthy American until evidence is shown to the contrary - in my book"

IOWS, it's your speculation. The CIA didn't do it theory and the radical right did it theory which are based on the CIA has too much to  lose and it's agents would be afraid of the electric chair while the radical right has nothing to lose and wouldn't be afraid of the electric chair is your speculation.

Unless you post a document that names names as to who killed Kennedy all the documents you've posted so far are nice reading but they mean nothing in so far as bringing out the truth simply because they are based on your speculation. I'm glad you made that clear with your last statement to me. Carry on. 

[Jason Ward]

53 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Jason

This is what you posted on pg 22.

"Dulles is a well educated wealthy man with zero history of murder or any serious crime."

"He had every bit the same aversion to murder and fear of the electric chair as every other socialized healthy American until evidence is shown to the contrary - in my book"

IOWS, it's your speculation. The CIA didn't do it theory and the radical right did it theory which are based on the CIA has too much to  lose and it's agents would be afraid of the electric chair while the radical right has nothing to lose and wouldn't be afraid of the electric chair is your speculation.

Unless you post a document that names names as to who killed Kennedy all the documents you've posted so far are nice reading but they mean nothing in so far as bringing out the truth simply because they are based on your speculation. I'm glad you made that clear with your last statement to me. Carry on. 

Thanks, George.

Yes indeed I adopt a quaint habit and defined approach to suspects that is roundly criticized among conspiracy buffs: men are innocent until evidence shows otherwise.

Crime science shows men fear getting caught, fear prison, and fear capital punishment - until they are provably irrational or desperate they will risk none of this.  Humans seek the results they want in the easiest and most efficient way they can find - they don't climb a 6 story building and pull a circus stunt gamble in front of a hundred witnesses and a dozen cameras, hoping they can kill a guy driving by in a convertible, not if there's a surer way to kill.  Crime is a defined science and is almost entirely predictable, categorical, and proven empirically to repeat itself in terms of motive and evidence. Only the complete rejection of this approach allows Dulles as a likely suspect.

Carry on with no basis in criminology or history or evidence as you like, but that approach is why everyone in America thinks conspiracy theorists are among the lunatic fringe.  Read a college freshman's textbook on criminology - among the list of suspects it suggests are the killers of Kennedy.

 

regards

Jason

Edited October 11, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Harry J.Dean]

Jason, re; Note to Hoover 19 Nov. 1963 on page 21. reason for it the Los Angeles office said they could do nothing about my FPCC/Senate exposure so wrote to Hoover

that it was being overlooked at this level, and  requesting his possible help.  As then I was involved with the LA office in both pro and anti-Castro efforts, e g; JURE, Alpha 66

FPCC,  Erquiaga Arms Co,  Minutemen, and related rightest political activities. Below some examples will show up inFBI reports.

 

JURE re; arms purchase request, Pasadena, CA.

ALPHA 66, re; it's LA leadership LA

FPCC re; it's activities LA. these contacts netted Castro G2 agent.

Others.

 

Am out of CROSSTRAILS, will have more copies soon.

 

 

 

 

[Jason Ward]

12 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

...

I remain interested in documents, whether CIA or other.

...

Paul B

Here's a document I just found....

 

 

[Andrej Stancak]

3 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Andrej,

Thanks for jumping in the conversation!

Ruth Paine, Linnie Mae Randle, Buell Frazier, Roy Truly all verified the way and reason Oswald got the job.  You honestly believe all of these people are in on the conspiracy?

You believe that Ruth Paine is the first and last person in the history of humanity to be a CIA asset for which not one shred of documentary or testimonial evidence exists?  The only "evidence" Ruth Paine is in contact with the CIA exists in the fertile minds of conspiracy theorists - whenever there is missing evidence without which their pet theory falls apart, the default answer becomes "it was CIA, of course there is no evidence."  Convenient.  There are millions of CIA documents that verify easily every CIA agent, contact, asset, informant -- I work with them everyday.

Ruth Paine was nothing more than what she says she was.  

I appreciate your kind conversation, although of course I disagree!

regards

Jason

3

Jason:

this is more of a general discussion about the right-wing forces being responsible for the assassination, and I would not like to drive it away to Ruth Paine and how Lee Oswald got the job in the Depository building. However, the example with Ruth Paine is actually useful. If one reads the testimonies of people involved (Paine, Truly, Mrs. Randle), a logical conclusion would be that all was natural, and none of these people had any evil motive.

However, having Lee Oswald working in the building in November and to get him there several weeks ahead of the assassination was essential. Without Lee being in that building, there would not be any patsy. Without a patsy, a full investigation would be in place and continued until solving the case. The patsy needed to be sheep-dipped (New Orleans), kept as inconspicuous as possible during the weeks preceding the assassination, and placed at the right spot at the right time.  

Although the way how Lee Oswald came to get his job in the Depository looks natural and innocent, it just could not be innocent and one of the players (Truly, Mrs. Paine, Mrs. Randle, Frazier) worked according to a plan. That was my point. A good plotter would make it natural and innocent. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Andrej Stancak

[George Sawtelle]

Andrej

Oswald wasn't placed above the limo route rather the limo route moved to where Oswald was working.

We can't forget that the original route of the limo was Main Street not Elm. The route of the limo was changed one or two days before 22 Nov.

So it can be argued successfully, IMO, that Oswald getting the job at the TSBD was not CIA related but the route change was.

If Oswald gets a job somewhere other than the TSBD, say in an area not close to the limo route, the plotters would have set up another patsy in another location. The ambush would have been placed where ever the patsy worked.

Edited October 11, 2017 by George Sawtelle

[Mathias Baumann]

8 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Mathias,

Why does linking Oswald to the Soviets and Cubans ensure there will be no honest investigation?

Jason

Jeremy has written about it here:

 

Quote

 

Nuclear War, Oswald and the Warren Commission

The apparent collusion between Oswald and the Soviet and Cuban regimes, if established, would have led to pressure for military retaliation. The need to defuse the danger of a nuclear war provided President Johnson with a bargaining tool. When pressing the reluctant Senator Richard Russell to serve on the Warren Commission, Johnson mentioned how he had managed to persuade the equally reluctant Earl Warren to play his part in promoting the lone–nut solution: “I just pulled out what Hoover told me about a little incident in Mexico City.”16

 

Source: http://22november1963.org.uk/a-little-incident-in-mexico-city

[Mathias Baumann]

4 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

The route of the limo was changed one or two days before 22 Nov.

Is that really true? That claim is made quite often, but I've seen no credible evidence so far. On the other hand...

Quote

.. it seems that the "changed motorcade route" is a factoid. It never happened. Evidence was wrenched out of context, and misinterpreted. Ironically, anyone who had read the Warren Commission Report would have known the truth. That volume discussed the parade route extensively (see below). It made it clear that you have to turn on Houston and then Elm to get from Dallas' Main Street to the Stemmons Freeway. If you try driving down Main, you can get to the Stemmons only by driving over a concrete divider strip. That would be illegal, absurdly undignified for the presidential limo, and impossible for the press busses that were a part of the motorcade.

Source: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/route.htm

 

[Paul Trejo]

On 10/9/2017 at 3:40 PM, Paul Brancato said:

Is it known whether Walker called the German newspaper editor first or the othe way around?

Paul B.,

The following is my opinion.

Yes, it is known in solid detail.  The Mary Ferrell web site has the full FBI and German BND documentation of the interviews of the day that 29 November 1963 article came out.  

The German BND took it very seriously, and contacted Gerhard Frey (the editor) immediately, demanding to see the writer, Hasso Thorston.  However, there was no such person.  That was only a pen name.  The real writer was Helmet Hubert Muench.

The German BND swooped up Helmet Hubert Muench and put him under a bright light.  He sang like a bird.  Mary Ferrell has the whole story, word for word.  There's several pages to this story.

Walker and Frey were old pals.  Frey put Muench up to it.   Edwin Walker arranged the whole thing.  Frey added that part about RFK, from what Meunch could tell.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[George Sawtelle]

Mathias

There is evidence that says otherwise. Suggest you read educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/18853-the-route-to-kennedys-assassination/.