Jason Ward Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Mooney spends "a few seconds." If he really took "one minute", then he possible walked into the TSBD 2 minutes after JFK was shot. * In this case, he would have missed DPD motorcyle cop Marrion Baker, who timed his encounter with Lee Harvey Oswald to be about 90 seconds after the JFK shots. Hi Paul, Thanks for indulging what may seem like a pedantic exercise. This is a minor point which I don't at all want to argue. Perhaps I just want to note that as between DPD motorcycle cop Marrion Baker and Dallas County Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney, a reasonable assumption arises that they were each together in the TSBD for 10-15 minutes. Baker mostly has TSBD boss Truly tagging along, who supports Baker's timeline. In fact, given that both Mooney and Baker are both using the northwest stairs repeatedly around the 6th and 7th floor area, we might ask why they don't see each other? There are points in Baker's testimony that we can use to triangulate the positions of Luke Mooney & Inspector Sawyer. So, I agree we should continue to dissect Captain Fritz's testimony and timeline, but I do think it's interesting to pause and do a little comparison shopping here - whose testimony would you buy? Whose would you leave on the shelf? (I) DPD Motorcycle officer Marrion Baker testifies: [btw Dulles and WC Attorney Belin are verbally sparring with each other to see who can manage or lead Baker's testimony] 1. Marrion Baker almost single-handedly destroys the Oswald Lone Nut narrative because his testimony is timed accurately and he even re-enacted his movements later with a stopwatch: 2. Baker goes to the NORTHWEST corner - isn't this the same place Deputy Mooney goes? 3. Officer Baker and Truly see Oswald: 4. Almost catastrophically to the Oswald-as-Lone-Nut narrative WC member Congressman Boggs insists on recording for all posterity the exact time Officer Baker and Truly see Oswald. Baker doesn't waffle -- even though just an extra minute here will greatly enhance the Lone Nut scenario and this is one minute of extra time the conspirators desperately need to establish. Worse, Baker has actually timed his movements to the second. It is 90 seconds OR LESS from the first shot until the time Oswald is seen calmly sipping a Coke: 5. This WC illustration of the TSBD has North to the bottom. Aren't both Mooney and Baker are using the same stairs at the same time in the northwest corner (bottom right)? 6. Baker proceeds to the roof, climbs the HERTZ sign, and recalls that the last transmission he heard on his motorbike radio was a command to get officers to the railroad track area. He spends 5 minutes on the roof looking for a sniper. 7. On the way back down from the roof, DPD Officer Marrion Baker encounters.....Inspector Sawyer! 8. Baker spends 15 minutes in the TSBD and correlating this to the testimony of Inspector Sawyer, Baker must leave the TSBD around 12:45ish. By the estimate above in this thread of Deputy Luke Mooney's timeline, shouldn't Baker and Mooney thus spend 10+ minutes together in the TSBD, much of it on the 6th or 7th floors or the roof? Are we even sure Mooney isn't basically camped out at the 6th floor sniper's nest, hidden from Baker and Truly, during this whole period? (II). TSBD boss Roy Truly corroborates Baker's testimony 1. Baker is inside the TSBD within seconds of the gunfire and they proceed to the NORTHWEST stairway. 2. In fact, the northwest stairway is the only possible stairway to use. (BTW - the elevators are conveniently inoperative during this critical period and Mooney says the power is out....hmmmmm) (III) Dallas County Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney: 3. Lots of activity in the Northwest corner staircase/elevator area... Why doesn't Baker and Truly see Mooney prancing around the stairs in the upper floors of the TSBD and otherwise wandering around with at least 15 minutes of missing time on his hands? Does this imply Mooney is perhaps holed up in the Southeast corner of the 6th floor, farthest point from the northwest stairs/elevator that Baker and Truly are using? Really the first point we can possibly pinpoint Mooney's timeline is when he says that about 1 o'clock he both sees Fritz and finds the shells. What is Mooney doing for ~30 minutes inside the TSBD, unseen by Baker or Truly or anyone, before he suddenly has a kind-of verifiable timestamp at 1 o'clock only? Why is DPD officer Marrion Baker allowed to undermine the Oswald-as-Lone-Nut theory by his hyper-precise time studies, measured with a stopwatch? If DPD Captain Fritz is a conspirator, is there some reason he does NOT want to be at the TSBD until 1? Does Fritz want to make it known that whatever's going on at the TSBD from 1230-1, he has nothing to do with it? Why does Fritz have himself stationed at the Trade Mart on 22 November 1963? Edited April 12, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: DPD Captain Will Fritz supplies his own timeline, and since he was among the last to see Lee Harvey Oswald alive -- and since he kept Oswald in virtual seclusion until the murder of Oswald, I'd like to linger on his WC testimony of Captain Will Fritz. Fritz testifies he is at the Market Hall providing security for the planned presidential luncheon when he hears of the attack on Kennedy. He goes to Parkland asap. (why???). At Parkland, Chief Curie immediately orders him to Dealey Plaza. 1. Fritz is at the Trade Mart waiting for Kennedy to appear - he has helpfully created a team notebook to assist in testimony. 2. Fritz already starts to waffle a little bit here about when the president was shot and when he heard about it. He picks a time of 12:35. See radio logs below. 3. Fritz testifies to a kind of rolling stop at Parkland where DPD Police Chief Curry is hanging out on the curb for unknown reasons at 12:45 - and it takes him 13 minutes to get to Parkland. (sidenote: with 2 gunshot victims in the form of a US president and Texas governor inside, why is Curry outside on the curb ready to intercept Fritz???) About the only time Fritz pinpoints in all of his 40+ pages of testimony is his 12:58 arrival time at the TSBD. Why is this the one time Fritz wants noted for all posterity? 4. A spatial analysis of Fritz's testimony indicates it takes him about 10 minutes to travel 1.5 miles from the Market Hall to Parkland. This is 9 MPH. 5. Granted, the distance in this map is given in terms of a straight line and does not account for road routes, stoplights, traffic, and other obstacles. Is it safe to assume Fritz can use a siren and flashing lights to speed from Parkland to the TSBD? Fritz testifies it takes 13 minutes to travel about 5 miles from Parkland to the TSBD. If my math is right, he is implying a speed of about 24 MPH. 6. The relevant portion of the DPD radio logs (see earlier post in this thread). The broadcast that must have alerted Fritz to the attack on Kennedy occurs between 12:30 and 12:34. Fritz testifies he hears about it at 12:35. This sounds reasonable. But is it reasonable to tour through Parkland and get to the scene of the crime ~30 minutes later, apparently traveling between 9 and 24 MPH? Shouldn't Fritz be at the TSBD around 12:45ish merely by driving at the normal speed limit? Is there perhaps a more lengthy meeting between Curry and Fritz at Parkland? 1230 [Sheriff Decker] Have Parkland stand by…get a man to the triple underpass…pull every one of my men in there. President has been hit. 1234 Witness identifies shots from the TSBD 1235 1236 Witness identifies shots fired from the 5th floor of the TSBD 1237 Officers ordered to the TSBD Wounded witness identified; possibly hit by concrete or bullet fragment Witness identifies gunman in southeast corner of TSBD Officers now searching TSBD Edited April 12, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: ... ...then Fritz is covering up his personal discussion with Sheriff Decker! If so, then we should see further evidence of this -- and we do. The question that stuck out for you, Jason, was why Fritz failed to mention his meeting with Sheriff Decker over at the County Jail -- which both Boyd and Sims remembered. Furthermore, this would explain why Fritz didn't want to be held to a 1:12 timing of finding the rifle. In my CT, Fritz must muddy his timeline, otherwise, the real sequence of events would become clear -- and his continual discourse with Sheriff Decker would see the light of day. Hi Paul, Even though officers Boyd, Sims, Mooney (and others?) happily report that Sheriff Decker and DPD Captain Fritz have at least two blocs of time together shortly after the assassination, Fritz omits any mention of Decker. Why??? Sheriff Decker is at this time something of a living legend who's already had national exposure and who helped capture Bonnie and Clyde. Does it seem natural to omit a 10-13 minute car ride with him from Parkland Hospital to the TSBD? Does it seem innocent for Fritz to omit mentioning the pow wow he has in Decker's office after leaving the TSBD? The timeline indicates it takes something close to an hour for Fritz to leave the TSBD and get back to City Hall to interrogate Oswald: it's a glaring hole in his testimony, perhaps only partially filled by the chat at the conveniently located sheriff's office in Dealey Plaza. 1. Officer Sims lets it slip that Decker and Fritz ride together from Parkland to Dealey Plaza. Then, shortly after finding the rifle and hearing of Ruth Paine's address from Roy Truly, Sims also perhaps goes off script and reveals that Fritz stops by Decker's office so Fritz and Decker can chat: 2. Fritz denies knowing when either the shell casings or the rifle was found. Contradicting Sims and Boyd, Fritz omits any mention of meeting with Sheriff Decker: 3 Capt Fritz says he leaves for City Hall right after the rifle is found. He omits dropping in to meet privately with Sheriff Decker. He shows up about an hour later to interrogate Oswald. Why is there a missing hour in his timeline? (approx 1:20 - 2:20) 4. Boyd, like Sims, also remembers the formidable presence of Sheriff Decker in the car between Parkland and Dealey Plaza; strangely Fritz forgets to mention Decker at all. Then, Boyd remembers that they don't leave the TSBD straight for City Hall (as Fritz claims), but instead stop across the street so Fritz and Decker can chat. Notice too that Boyd remembers a plan to go straight to the Paine's house after the TSBD. Is this changed after meeting with Decker? Both Boyd and Fritz agree that Fritz is back at the station at about 2:20 - but Boyd adequately explains where they've been for the last hour - Fritz does not. 5. Decker suggests he is at the TSBD when the rifle and shells are found. This matches Mooney's testimony. But why does Decker say, "and Fritz arrived," since both Boyd and Sims testified that Decker and Fritz arrive at the TSBD together? Decker also suggests he and Fritz have a chat in his office. 6. These are the time references Decker provides on the most notable day in Dallas history and the day he is travelling in a presidential motorcade when the president is shot <100 yards from his office: Edited April 12, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) On 4/11/2018 at 9:49 PM, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, ...between DPD motorcycle cop Marrion Baker and Dallas County Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney, a reasonable assumption arises that they were each together in the TSBD for 10-15 minutes. Baker mostly has TSBD boss Truly tagging along, who supports Baker's timeline. In fact, given that both Mooney and Baker are both using the northwest stairs repeatedly around the 6th and 7th floor area, we might ask why they don't see each other? e - whose testimony would you buy? Whose would you leave on the shelf? Why doesn't Baker and Truly see Mooney prancing around the stairs in the upper floors of the TSBD and otherwise wandering around with at least 15 minutes of missing time on his hands? Does this imply Mooney is perhaps holed up in the Southeast corner of the 6th floor, farthest point from the northwest stairs/elevator that Baker and Truly are using? Really the first point we can possibly pinpoint Mooney's timeline is when he says that about 1 o'clock he both sees Fritz and finds the shells. What is Mooney doing for ~30 minutes inside the TSBD, unseen by Baker or Truly or anyone, before he suddenly has a kind-of verifiable timestamp at 1 o'clock only? Why is DPD officer Marrion Baker allowed to undermine the Oswald-as-Lone-Nut theory by his hyper-precise time studies, measured with a stopwatch? If DPD Captain Fritz is a conspirator, is there some reason he does NOT want to be at the TSBD until 1? Does Fritz want to make it known that whatever's going on at the TSBD from 1230-1, he has nothing to do with it? Why does Fritz have himself stationed at the Trade Mart on 22 November 1963? Hi Jason, These are all interesting questions. I will offer my opinion based on my reading of the Warren Commission volumes. The WC evidence tells us that DPD motorcycle cop Marrion Baker was the first Dallas Policeman inside the TSBD. He heard the shots when he was at the corner of Houston and Main -- he was a only a few dozen feet away from Luke Mooney, Buddy Walthers, Roger Craig, Seymore Weitzman and the other Dallas Deputies, watching the JFK parade from the corner of the Dallas County Jailhouse. Yet Marrion Baker wasn't paying attention to them when the JFK shots rang out -- he was looking straight ahead at the TSBD, and he saw a flock of pigeons fly away from the roof of the TSBD building at the moment of the shots. He quickly recognized the sounds as gunfire, and he presumed the shots came from the roof of the TSBD. His WC testimony is clear and credible, in my reading. Baker sped his motorcycle to the TSBD, parked it quickly, and ran inside. Roy Truly saw this, and ran inside behind Officer Baker, seeking to be of service to the Dallas Police. In my CT, Baker and Truly are utterly ignorant of any JFK plot. They innocently trust their instincts. Baker's instinct is to rush to the roof with his own pistol ready-to-hand, and Truly's instinct was to serve the Police as a supervisor of the TSBD building. Baker timed his entry later with a stopwatch. It was a matter of seconds -- as little as 75 and as much as 90 seconds -- before Baker and Truly stopped Lee Harvey Oswald, and then let him go, so that they could speed upwards to the TSBD roof. Where was Deputy Luke Mooney at this time? He ran with the other Deputies to the Grassy Knoll picket fence, and jumped over to look into the parking lot and railroad yard there. At the very fastest they needed 30 seconds to run 300 yards. In my estimate, the motorcycle of Marrion Baker arrived at the TSBD first, because his motorcycle was probably faster, and he only had to travel 300 feet to the TSBD, while the Deputies had 870 feet to run to the picket fence. In any case, after the Deputies jumped over the picket fence, they spent time time looking around there. Mooney said that was only "a few seconds" but I'll take that as a figure of speech. I gather it was a matter of a couple minutes. But by that time, Officer Baker and Roy Truly were either on the TSBD roof, or almost there. Then, Dallas Deputy Luke Mooney decided to go to the 6th floor of the TSBD -- to be by himself. Dallas Deputy Buddy Walthers testified that at this time, he walked over to the lawn of the park across the street from the picket fence, to look around for shells. We can see from film footage of this time that Dallas Police were running to and fro in a fairly disorganized manner. Buddy Walthers confirms this. Walthers said that he then met James Tague, and walked to the triple overpass where Tague was standing when his face was nicked by a bullet fragment, and Walthers looked for a bullet mark in the sidewalk, and by the trajectory decided the bullets had to come from the TSBD. This was close to 10 minutes after the JFK shooting, because we have a photograph of Walthers at the Dealey Plaza park lawn, and the Hertz clock says 12:40. It was around this time that Walthers says that he told Deputy Alan Sweatt that the shots came from the TSBD, and from that moment forward, police began to swarm into the TSBD. Before that moment, said Walthers, the Dallas Officers were a disorganized mess. Other Dallas Officials claim that they, at least, were at the TSBD, at some point watching or guarding the entrances. Yet the official time for ordering the sealing of the TSBD was 12:43. So, it appears that Buddy Walthers might be correct -- his timing agrees with this. HOWEVER -- given all that background -- my point is that there were Dallas Police and Deputies inside the TSBD from some unknown period of time. We know this because Luke Mooney said that when he ascended the stairs to the 6th floor -- only "a few" minutes after the JFK shooting, two Deputies were coming down the stairs! This is my point -- that no ordinary (innocent) Dallas Officers under these tense circumstances would just stop and dally with other Officers. Marrion Baker was certain, he said, that the shots came from the roof, and that the shooter did not have time to leave the building, because he went so fast. Roy Truly objected -- "No! The shots came from the Grassy Knoll area! West of the TSBD!" From the TSBD rooftop, Roy Truly pointed down to the huge crowd of spectators and Dallas Officers behind the picket fence, as evidence. "No!" replied Baker. "The shots came from this roof! Be careful! He may still be here, and he's dangerous!" And Baker searched every inch of the roof, seeking signs of ANYBODY having been there. There was a tool shed on the roof, and Baker carefully opened the door, pistol in hand, to look inside. Nothing. He looked at the fire escape as a possible escape. Baker did not time his stay on the TSBD root, except at one point -- when he says that when he and Truly decided to come back down, they met DPD Inspector Herbert Sawyer coming up the stairs! Yet Sawyer drove to the TSBD after hearing about it on the Dallas Police Radio -- and he was blocks away. By the time Sawyer arrived and managed to take charge, and "seal the building," the Dallas Logs say it was 12:43 -- thirteen minutes after the JFK shooting. In any case, even before 12:43 and the official, orderly sealing of the TSBD, the impression I get from WC witnesses (unclear about TIMING) is that the TSBD was "swarming" with Dallas Officers. Organized or not. My point is that the Dallas Police and Deputies did not cooperate as they wished -- they usually needed orders, and presumed that other Officers were acting on orders. Baker took it upon himself to rush to the roof of the TSBD, yet he probably paid no attention at all to any other officers on his way down, except superiors. Inspector Sawyer gave Baker no orders. Baker testifies that he was sorely disappointed that his instincts were wrong. There was no sign at all of anybody on the roof of the TSBD -- and he had been so sure. He went out in search of the other motorcyclists in the JFK parade. His JFK story was over. So -- finally -- my impression is that Baker and Luke Mooney were not the only Dallas Officers in the TSBD in those first 10 minutes after the JFK shooting. There were a few others, but they were operating in pairs or alone, during their duty. My biggest worry is about the "two Deputies" that Luke Mooney saw coming downstairs when he was going upstairs. Who were they? What were they doing there? Luke Mooney never told us. Do other WC witnesses mention them? Well -- Deputy Roger Craig's timing of the period before finding the shells and the Oswald rifle on the 6th floor offers the most clues, IMHO. Roger Craig implies that the Dallas Deputies were the first in the TSBD, and they fussed on the 7th floor, and sent Roger Craig to the County Jail to get as many flashlights as he could carry. (Also, Alan Sweatt's affidavit offers a quantity of Deputies at the picket fence and TSBD -- namely, fifteen.) So -- SOME Dallas Deputies were on the upper floors 10 minutes after the JFK shooting. Were they guarding the 6th floor to ensure nobody bothered them? In my opinion -- Dallas Officers did not interfere with others, but presumed that each was putting his life on the line for Law and Order that day. Dallas citizens usually felt the same way -- you never question the intentions of the Dallas Police. For a half-century, scrutiny of every WC witness except the Dallas Police has been the norm. All best, --Paul Edited April 13, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 On 4/11/2018 at 9:15 AM, Paul Trejo said: Fritz must muddy his timeline, otherwise, the real sequence of events would become clear -- and his continual discourse with Sheriff Decker would see the light of day. Hi Paul, It seems to me Fritz has to muddy the waters around time because he's got another problem besides hiding his chats with Decker. The problem is now they've got a supplied narrative with Oswald moving around Oak Cliff at such high speed that the REAL sequence of events don't line up. In other words, there is a SEQUENCE to the events immediately after JFK's murder and especially what happens in the TSBD that -perhaps- they've all agreed upon in advance. However, when they later realize they have to give Oswald enough time to do all that hyperactive movement after time in a bus and cab, they get a little muddled. 1. Lumpkin says Lt Day arrives at 1:12. Doesn't this indicate he was CALLED to the TSBD by found shells somewhat before 1:12? This 1:12 time shows up in a lot of testimony, but not everyone remembers what was supposed to happen at 1:12. The problem is that if the hulls are found too much before 1:12, the sequence of events becomes too early for them to hear of the Tippit shooting, keeping in mind the Tippit shooting has to be pinpointed at a time that gives Oswald enough to move around as much as they say he moves around... I guess my point is that Oswald's officially mandated activities are a logistical problem to line up with the sequence of events going on in the TSBD at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) Jason, The activities of Lee Harvey Oswald after the JFK Assassination were probably planned originally to be no problem. Oswald was picked up by an accomplice in a station wagon and driven away. The accomplices would be identified as Communists. Ruth Paine would be Communist number one, along with her station wagon. But after 3pm CST the new dogma of the Lone Nut came out of Waggoner Carr and Henry Wade's offices. It was at this time that Fritz and Curry had to "find" new things in Oswald's pockets. This is why their timeline looks so sloppy -- this and the fact that Tippit failed to shoot Oswald in the street. All best, --Paul Edited April 13, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 On 4/11/2018 at 10:31 PM, Jason Ward said: 0. Fritz testifies he is at the Market Hall providing security for the planned presidential luncheon when he hears of the attack on Kennedy. He goes to Parkland asap. (why???). At Parkland, Chief Curie immediately orders him to Dealey Plaza. 1. Fritz is at the Trade Mart waiting for Kennedy to appear - he has helpfully created a team notebook to assist in testimony. 2. Fritz already starts to waffle a little bit here about when the president was shot and when he heard about it. He picks a time of 12:35. See radio logs below. 3. Fritz testifies to a kind of rolling stop at Parkland where DPD Police Chief Curry is hanging out on the curb for unknown reasons at 12:45 - and it takes him 13 minutes to get to Parkland. (sidenote: with 2 gunshot victims in the form of a US president and Texas governor inside, why is Curry outside on the curb ready to intercept Fritz???) About the only time Fritz pinpoints in all of his 40+ pages of testimony is his 12:58 arrival time at the TSBD. Why is this the one time Fritz wants noted for all posterity? 4. A spatial analysis of Fritz's testimony indicates it takes him about 10 minutes to travel 1.5 miles from the Market Hall to Parkland. This is 9 MPH. 5. Granted, the distance in this map is given in terms of a straight line and does not account for road routes, stoplights, traffic, and other obstacles. Is it safe to assume Fritz can use a siren and flashing lights to speed from Parkland to the TSBD? Fritz testifies it takes 13 minutes to travel about 5 miles from Parkland to the TSBD. If my math is right, he is implying a speed of about 24 MPH. 6. The relevant portion of the DPD radio logs...The broadcast that must have alerted Fritz to the attack on Kennedy occurs between 12:30 and 12:34. Fritz testifies he hears about it at 12:35. This sounds reasonable. But is it reasonable to tour through Parkland and get to the scene of the crime ~30 minutes later, apparently traveling between 9 and 24 MPH? Shouldn't Fritz be at the TSBD around 12:45ish merely by driving at the normal speed limit? Is there perhaps a more lengthy meeting between Curry and Fritz at Parkland? Jason, 0. You ask why DPD Captain Will Fritz (with sidekicks Sims and Boyd) went to Parkland Hospital directly from the Trade Mart. Here is what Fritz testified: Mr. FRITZ. ...We went to Parkland Hospital as we had been instructed, and as we drove up in front of the hospital, we I suppose intercepted the chief, Chief Curry, between the curb and the hospital, and I told him we had had a call to the hospital but I felt we were going to the wrong place, we should go to the scene of the crime and he said, "Well, go ahead," so I don't think our car ever quit rolling but we went right to the scene of the crime. WIll Fritz claimed that they "had been instructed" to go to Parkland over Dallas Police Radio. That would have been by the orders of Chief Jesse Curry. This fits with Fritz's complaint to Jesse Curry that "we were going to the wrong place." Curry evidently changed his mind and let them go to the TSBD -- but Will Fritz completely left out the key fact mentioned by Sims and Boyd -- that Sheriff Bill Decker jumped into their car at Parkland Hospital. 1. I don't think Fritz created that Team Notebook -- I think Jesse Curry made it for him, to help Fritz with his confused timeline. The Team Notebook was evidently based on the Dallas Police Radio Log. 2. Fritz refers to the Team Notebook to get the time of the JFK shooting confirmation at the Trade Mart: 12:35. 3. Curry was at the curb of Parkland Hospital because he had no medical skills to share inside the Hospital. His main task was Dallas host to LBJ and Jackie Kennedy. The reason that Fritz pinpointed 12:58 arrival time at the TSBD so clearly was that this was in his Team Notebook, based on the the Dallas Police Radio Log. It was also his Hollywood scene grand entrance. 4. The best explanation for Fritz, Sims and Boyd taking 10 minutes to travel 1.5 MPH to Parkland Hospital was that they dallied. They were already in the car, as Fritz testifies, since they were listening to the Dallas Police Radio starting at 12:36. Fritz claimed that he wanted to be certain that this wasn't "a hoax." 5. It seems to me that Captain Fritz was in no hurry to get into action at the TSBD, because then many DPD cops would have followed him there -- and they might have interfered with the plan to arrange the 6th floor of the TSBD just right. Many cops were respectful enough to let the Captain get there first and give orders. It was mainly Sheriff Decker's men who were at the TSBD at this point. (It was Decker's men who found the shells and the rifle.) 6. Fritz is keen to say that his car "barely stopped rolling" at Parkland. But given the accurate timeline you've accounted for, Jason, it seems that Curry, Fritz and Decker -- the three highest ranking Dallas Officers in the JFK plot -- were having a pow-wow there at the curb of Parkland Hospital. It's significant that Fritz omits Decker getting into Fritz's car -- while Sims and Boyd admit it. All best, --Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) On 4/12/2018 at 12:32 AM, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, 0. Even though officers Boyd, Sims, Mooney (and others?) happily report that Sheriff Decker and DPD Captain Fritz have at least two blocs of time together shortly after the assassination, Fritz omits any mention of Decker. Why??? Sheriff Decker is at this time something of a living legend who's already had national exposure and who helped capture Bonnie and Clyde. Does it seem natural to omit a 10-13 minute car ride with him from Parkland Hospital to the TSBD? Does it seem innocent for Fritz to omit mentioning the pow wow he has in Decker's office after leaving the TSBD? The timeline indicates it takes something close to an hour for Fritz to leave the TSBD and get back to City Hall to interrogate Oswald: it's a glaring hole in his testimony, perhaps only partially filled by the chat at the conveniently located sheriff's office in Dealey Plaza. 1. Officer Sims lets it slip that Decker and Fritz ride together from Parkland to Dealey Plaza. Then, shortly after finding the rifle and hearing of Ruth Paine's address from Roy Truly, Sims also perhaps goes off script and reveals that Fritz stops by Decker's office so Fritz and Decker can chat: 2. Fritz denies knowing when either the shell casings or the rifle was found. Contradicting Sims and Boyd, Fritz omits any mention of meeting with Sheriff Decker: 3 Capt Fritz says he leaves for City Hall right after the rifle is found. He omits dropping in to meet privately with Sheriff Decker. He shows up about an hour later to interrogate Oswald. Why is there a missing hour in his timeline? (approx 1:20 - 2:20) 4. Boyd, like Sims, also remembers the formidable presence of Sheriff Decker in the car between Parkland and Dealey Plaza; strangely Fritz forgets to mention Decker at all. Then, Boyd remembers that they don't leave the TSBD straight for City Hall (as Fritz claims), but instead stop across the street so Fritz and Decker can chat. Notice too that Boyd remembers a plan to go straight to the Paine's house after the TSBD. Is this changed after meeting with Decker? Both Boyd and Fritz agree that Fritz is back at the station at about 2:20 - but Boyd adequately explains where they've been for the last hour - Fritz does not. 5. Decker suggests he is at the TSBD when the rifle and shells are found. This matches Mooney's testimony. But why does Decker say, "and Fritz arrived," since both Boyd and Sims testified that Decker and Fritz arrive at the TSBD together? Decker also suggests he and Fritz have a chat in his office. 6. These are the time references Decker provides on the most notable day in Dallas history and the day he is travelling in a presidential motorcade when the president is shot <100 yards from his office: Hi Jason, 0. Captain Fritz never mentions Sheriff Decker because the JFK plot sits inside every meeting they have. (A) At the curb outside Parkland Hospital; (B ) at the curb outside TSBD; and (C) at Decker's office inside County Jail. 1. I'm delighted to read Officer Sims' testimony admitting the presence of Sheriff Decker at (A) and (C) above. Does he go off script...or is he truly innocent? Sims and Boyd appear to be muscle-headed "Yes-men" to Will Fritz. They don't seem to think for themselves. 2. Captain Fritz has one main motive in muddying the timeline, IMHO, and that is to evade any discussion about his meetings with Sheriff Decker that afternoon. 3. Capt Fritz says he left TSBD for City Hall almost immediately after the rifle is found around 1:20. This matches Roy Truly's account. Fritz was examining the rifle when he and Lumpkin interrupted Fritz to give him Oswald's name and Ruth Paine's address. Then Fritz left. The missing next hour in Fritz's timeline was probably spent largely with Sheriff Decker. 4. Boyd, like Sims, also remembers Sheriff Decker in the car from Parkland to TSBD. Boyd also remembers that Fritz and Decker had a meeting at County Jail. 5. Sheriff Decker also tries to muddy the timeline, since he implies that he arrived at the TSBD before Fritz ("and Fritz arrived") while they drove in the same car. Yet Decker will not dispute Sims and Boyd that Fritz met with Decker at City Hall. 6. Here is the closest thing to a timeframe we will get from Sheriff Decker. Mr. HUBERT: Now, when did you make any efforts to take custody of Oswald? Mr. DECKER: ...On Friday afternoon we were taking statements in my office you know --this thing...occurred just across the street from my office, and we moved all the witnesses when we were on the ground there at the scene...I was working there and I had Inspector Sawyer, who is there with me, and also Heitman of the FBI and my assistant chief deputy, and every witness, just as we picked up a witness that had any information at all, we sent him directly across the street to my office and reduced his statement to writing. Then, I talked to Fritz after he arrived. We had by then located the gun and the ammunition, my officers had located it in the building, and was awaiting the arrival of the scene searchers and also the arrival of my scene searchers; and Fritz arrived and then I talked to Fritz and then we went across the street and he phoned; and that's when I learned Oswald had been formerly employed there at that building. And, Fritz went to the city... All best, --Paul Edited April 13, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, <snip> 1. Lumpkin says Lt Day arrives at 1:12. Doesn't this indicate he was CALLED to the TSBD by found shells somewhat before 1:12? This 1:12 time shows up in a lot of testimony, but not everyone remembers what was supposed to happen at 1:12. The problem is that if the hulls are found too much before 1:12, the sequence of events becomes too early for them to hear of the Tippit shooting, keeping in mind the Tippit shooting has to be pinpointed at a time that gives Oswald enough to move around as much as they say he moves around... I guess my point is that Oswald's officially mandated activities are a logistical problem to line up with the sequence of events going on in the TSBD at this time. Hi Jason, I may be mistaken, yet I continually return to my hypothesis about the Dallas Police Radio Log -- that all the Dallas Police and Deputies tried to follow it to the best of their memories in their WC testimony. You have presented an interesting letter from Deputy Chief Lumpkin, which states that at 1:12 PM, Lt. Day and his sidekick, Det. Studebaker, arrived at the TSBD. They comprised the core of the so-called "crime lab," or technical support which operated the photography and fingerprint equipment. How could they arrive at the TSBD from DPD HQ the very second that the shells were found? They had to be called first, and then they would get in their lab truck and unload their camera equipment and begin photographing and dusting the crime scene. Their rule was: never touch the evidence until after it has been photographed and dusted for fingerprints. Most of the time the DPD followed that rule. Now -- the Dallas Police Radio Log says that the spent rifle shells were reported as found at 1:11 PM. At that point, Deputy Luke Mooney reportedly stuck his neck out the window, saw Captain Fritz and Sheriff Decker on the sidewalk below, and shouted out that he found the shells, and to send up the crime-lab. Now -- this is only a 11 minute discrepancy from what Luke Mooney reported (1pm which seems confirmed by Captain Fritz, who said he arrived at the TSBD at 12:58 pm). So, this might be explained by simple bureaucratic sluggishness. In other words, it is possible that the shells were found at 1pm, but all the team at the TSBD waited for Captain Fritz to walk upstairs and look at them, and order people to guard them, before he called the Dallas Police Radio Dispatcher. If that's correct, then the Dallas Dispatcher didn't log when the shells were FOUND, but he logged when the Dallas Police REPORTED that the shells were found. If that's correct -- and if we allow 11 full minutes for that delay -- then Luke Mooney's timing is correct. I still think it's a problem -- but it's more complex than I've considered in the past. This will take some fresh analysis. My starting point will be Roy Truly. His timing is truly bizarre -- because he was convinced that he told Captain Fritz about Lee Harvey Oswald BEFORE 1PM. Let's see his testimony: Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I just said, "I have a man that is missing. I don't know whether it means anything, but this is the name."Representative FORD. Do you know about what time that was that you told the police?Mr. TRULY. I could be wrong, but I think it was around 15--between 15 minutes or 20 minutes after the shots, or something. I could be as far off as 5 minutes or so. I don't know. I did not seem to think it was very long. We might have spent more time up on the roof and coming down, and then I might have walked out in the shipping department. Everybody was running up asking questions. Time could fool me. But I did not think it was but about 15 or 20 minutes later. Here is Roy Truly thinking that he told the Dallas Police that LHO was missing as early as 12:45 or 12:50, and quickly called TSBD HQ for Oswald's address, and quickly took this upstairs to Captain Fritz. My point here -- is that TIMING events was obviously chaotic during the first half-hour after the JFK Assassination -- mainly because the major Dallas Police Officials who should have been valiantly leading -- Chief Curry, Captain Fritz and Sheriff Decker -- were content to follow the bureaucratic flow. Yet let me ask you, Jason. I might be mistaken, but you continually bring us back to the possibility of Mooney finding and reporting the rifle shells at 1pm -- 11 minutes earlier than logged. Captain Fritz also seems to want to say this. What would be the consequences of accepting a timing of 1pm for finding the spent shells? What am I possibly missing here? All best, --Paul Edited April 13, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Capt Fritz says he left TSBD for City Hall almost immediately after the rifle is found around 1:20 Hi Paul, In keeping with your inclination to focus on DPD Captain Fritz, I am reviewing a few other sources. Besides the report written by Lumpkin which I posted above that tends to imply the rifle was found somewhat before 1:12, I also have more evidence to consider. Dallas County Sheriff Deputy Roger Craig has an unpublished manuscript in which he says that almost at the exact moment the rifle was identified... 1. "At that exact moment an unknown Dallas police officer came running up the stairs and advised Capt. Fritz that a Dallas policeman had been shot in the Oak Cliff area. I instinctively looked at my watch. The time was 1:06 p.m. A token force of uniformed officers was left to keep the sixth floor secure and Fritz, Day, Boone, Mooney, Weitzman and I left the building. " ~DPD Sheriff Deputy Roger Craig 2. Fritz refuses to say when the rifle was found; however, a time of 1:12 is apparently the officially agreed-upon-time as other officers who can pin no other time down that day are able to pick 1:12 as the time the rifle was found. Everyone agrees that immediately after the rifle was found, they hear of Tippit's shooting. The DPD radio log indicates: 115 Civilian uses police radio to report a shot police officer on 10th St 118 “all squads officer shot 400 E 10th” 3. I suggest this means that 1:18 is when they ARE SUPPOSED to hear of the Tippit shooting. If Roger Craig is right, and he alone claims to have looked at his watch, this means there is a time discrepancy here of 10-15 minutes. It seems to me they pulled the 1:12 time out of hat, possibly after looking at the radio logs. I suggest there was about 12 minutes of unknown action on the 6th floor of TSBD during this period - that is between 1:06 and 1:18. 4. Furthermore, I suggest there is strong evidence to indicate Capt Fritz and everyone else on the 6th floor hears of the Tippit shooting well before the official time on the police radio logs of 1:18. This is a problem they have to hide. So - I see two big problems with Fritz here. 1. There is evidence the rifle was found noticeably earlier than the police say; and 2. There is evidence that at least Fritz and the 6th floor hear of the Tippit shooting before the official broadcast. SO -it seems- THEY MUST SKEW the timeline of the rifle find in order to cover up the fact they have un-announced knowledge of the Tippit murder. Everyone remembers that the rifle find and the hearing of the Tippit murder happen at the same time. But if this happens at 1:06 as Roger Craig says.....then this is a BIG problem. Am I missing something here???? SOURCE: Roger Craig, When They Kill a President (unpublished). https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html#s5 Edited April 13, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) Jason, Your intuition serves you well. Here is the testimony from DPD Lt. John Day: Mr. DAY. I was in the identification bureau at the city hall. About a quarter of one I was in the basement of the city hall, which is three floors under me actually I am on the fourth floor--and a rumor swept through there that the President had been shot. I returned to my office to get on the radio and wait for the developments. Shortly before 1 o'clock I received a call from the police dispatcher to go to 411 Elm Street, Dallas.Mr. BELIN. Is there any particular building at that particular location?Mr. DAY. The Texas School Book Depository, I believe is the correct name on it.Mr. BELIN. Did you go there?Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I went out of my office almost straight up 1 o'clock. I arrived at the location on Elm about 1:12. So, there is our answer, and so Mooney and Fritz are correct. Shortly before 1pm, the Dallas Police Radio dispatcher called Lt. Day to tell him to go to the TSBD. Let us say this was 12:58 PM, the very minute that Captain Fritz, Sheriff Decker, and Detectives Boyd and Sims arrived at the TSBD from Parkland Hospital. This was also the time that Deputy Mooney claims that he found the spent shells. So, this is correct. THEREFORE -- what is incorrect in the Dallas Radio Log is any claim that the shells were found at 1:11. Or even reported found. That is, according to Lt. Day and Det. Studebaker of the "crime lab" -- they got a call for their technical services BEFORE 1PM. They arrived at the TSBD at 1:12. All best, --Paul Edited April 13, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said: ... THEREFORE -- what is incorrect in the Dallas Radio Log is any claim that the shells were found at 1:11. Or even reported found. ... Hi Paul, One of the habits we can all fall into is chasing evidentiary diversions down a deeper and deeper rabbit hole such that we lose the bigger plot. So, this point I make now should perhaps only be mentioned, with the idea that it may not mean anything OR we may need to come back to it. My point is an interrogatory: Is it possible Fritz & Co. on the 6th floor have earlier knowledge of the Tippit shooting than the official radio transcripts indicate? Alternatively, is it possible that the script calls for them to be moving towards Oak Cliff at xx:xx time whether or not they actually hear of a shooting? I mean, after all, there is something of a variable here - they rely on a citizen climbing into Tippit's car to use the radio in order to establish a time stamp of the earliest possible moment they could suddenly leave the 6th floor and/or send an army of officers to Oak Cliff. Well, what if the citizens are so paralyzed by shock they don't even try to use the radio? What if Tippit is dead and bloody in the car and no one wants to disturb a corpse to use the radio? It's a big problem! ... and the variable means that potentially the police don't officially hear of Tippit's shooting until 10 or 20 minutes later....then the whole dramatic Texas Theatre Oswald arrest becomes unlikely or even impossible to justify. Furthermore, what if Tippit was supposed to shoot Oswald and make this known to the world at 1:00? I ask if perhaps it is 1pm when Fritz and Company plan to begin the whole Oak Cliff-Oswald Captured segment of the script....only!...the day goes wildly off script....they don't hear from Tippit at the expected time, and start the big scene transition to Oak Cliff anyway AT 1:04 AS CRAIG SUGGESGTS. Then, around 1:18, total train wreck happens and they hear Tippit is shot, even though they've already begun moving towards Oak Cliff in preparation for Tippit to call in and say Oswald is shot. ****THEY HAD TO GET MOVING WHETHER OR NOT THEY HEAR OF THE TIPPIT SHOOTING OTHERWISE THERE IS NO PLAUSIBLE STORY AROUND CATCHING OSWALD**** there MUST BE A CUTOFF TIME TO BEGIN THE SCENE TRANSITION TO OAK CLIFF OR IT'S POSSIBLE OSWALD DOESN'T GET CAPTURED. As I said, this train of thought may only be a diversion. But I sense the 2:04 timestamp that Craig puts on finding the rifle is significant. This means Fritz "hears" of the Tippit shooting at 2:04, 14 minutes before it is announced. Kindly chew on that and let me know. I'd like to go down this potential rabbit hole just a little bit under two forms of the script - script A is Tippit was supposed to shoot Oswald, but they don't hear Tippit's call to confirm this at the appointed time (I suggest 1:00pm).......Script B is Tippit himself is to be shot by ????? and they are already expecting a dead police officer in Oak Cliff at about 1, so start reacting to this even before it is announced on the radio. Jason Edited April 13, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted April 14, 2018 Author Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, ...So - I see two big problems with Fritz here. 1. There is evidence the rifle was found noticeably earlier than the police say; and 2. There is evidence that at least Fritz and the 6th floor hear of the Tippit shooting before the official broadcast. SO - it seems - THEY MUST SKEW the timeline of the rifle find in order to cover up the fact they have un-announced knowledge of the Tippit murder. Everyone remembers that the rifle find and the hearing of the Tippit murder happen at the same time. But if this happens at 1:06 as Roger Craig says.....then this is a BIG problem. Am I missing something here???? Jason, You are pushing the envelope, and that's good -- although I am reluctant to follow you, because this would mean re-creating the Dallas Police Radio Log based on Roger Craig's testimony. Deputy Roger Craig -- in my opinion -- was loyal to Deputy Buddy Walthers, even though Buddy Walthers dismissed Roger Craig as basically worthless. Roger Craig could not keep up with the changes -- that's my opinion. The fact that Oswald did escape in an automobile driven by an ACCOMPLICE was reported correctly by Roger Craig -- however, the entire Sheriff's Office denied Roger Craig's story! This is important, in my CT. Roger Craig was trying to play ball, but he was far too clumsy. Then, after Roger Craig was fired by Sheriff Decker some years later, and Roger Craig became a grocery bagger and shopping cart collector -- he also began to play ball with Jim Garrison and Penn Jones, Jr. So, it's hard to pinpoint the Truth in what Roger Craig says, from the Fiction in what he says. Here's my example from the Dallas Police Radio Log: 1:18 PM TIPPIT CAR RADIO: A citizen came on the Police Radio stating, "Hello, police operator!" 531 Go ahead TIPPIT CAR RADIO: "We've had a shooting here." 531 Where is it at? TIPPIT CAR RADIO: "10th Street, between Marsalis and Beckley. It's a police officer. Somebody shot him. 404 10th St." 531 Called squad 78 TIPPIT CAR RADIO: "It's in police No. 10. Did you get that?" 531 Signal 19 involving a police officer. 510 East Jefferson. TIPPIT CAR RADIO: "Thank you" So, this is very detailed, and the time given by the Dallas Police Radio dispatch was very specific about time. At 1:19 PM, there were many calls from squad cars back to the Dallas Police Radio dispatcher. So -- in this case -- why would Roger Craig's watch say 1:06 when the Dallas Police Radio dispatch had its first notice at 1:18? I am inclined to believe the Dallas Police Radio dispatcher on this point. The problem -- a recurrent problem -- in WC testimony, is that the WC witnesses cannot agree about TIMING. This is glaring in the WC testimony of TSBD workers. For example, Roy Truly thought that only 15-20 minutes had passed after the JFK shooting, before Truly told the Dallas Police that Lee Harvey Oswald was missing from his book-pickers roll call. Yet it was closer to 45 minutes by almost all other accounts. Part of the reason for that scrambled TIMING is very likely the panic and chaos after a Presidential Assassination in one's own home town. All best, --Paul Edited April 14, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: So -- in this case -- why would Roger Craig's watch say 1:06 when the Dallas Police Radio dispatch had its first notice at 1:18? ...perhaps because both Roger Craig and the DPD radio dispatch log are correct? .....Which of course means certain other police witnesses have altered, but in near-unison agreed to alter, the timeframe as testified to the WC. 14 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Roy Truly thought that only 15-20 minutes had passed after the JFK shooting, before Truly told the Dallas Police that Lee Harvey Oswald was missing from his book-pickers roll call. Yet it was closer to 45 minutes by almost all other accounts. ...so, perhaps both Roger Craig and Roy Truly are correct? ...and the police radio logs are correct. ...and Mooney's testimony about guarding the evidence PRIOR to 1pm is correct. ...and if in your CT Roy Truly is no conspirator...and there's no reason why Roger Craig would pick 1:06 out of his hat randomly, is there? IN SUM, PERHAPS: 1245-1250 Truly has informed DPD that Oswald is missing as he says. Fritz learns this no later than his arrival at DPD, no later than 1258, even though I now throw open the possibility that Fritz arrives earlier at the TSBD, which makes sense given the short distance between Parkland and TSBD. 1258-1 Hulls found, as Mooney says. 1:06 The rifle is found, as Craig says, which in turn means the empty shell casings were found a bit earlier - as Mooney says. 1:06 [all witnesses refuse to identify the exact person who makes an] announcement that an officer is shot in Oak Cliff ----insert mysterious interregnum implied by mismatched testimony around time--- whereby Fritz goes by Decker's office and doesn't re-appear in a verifiable time and place until about 2:20 when Oswald is already in custody at DPD headquarters <this is a panic/heart-attack time for Fritz and Decker> 1:18 Citizen calls on Tippit's radio to say a policeman is shot dead next to his car IMPLICATION: By the time of WC testimony, the conspirators MUST show the rifle found at a time much closer to the DPD radio announcement at 1:18, therefore they must in testimony delay the time the rifle was found - 1:12 is the time they all agree upon. In turn, they must delay the time they hear about Oswald from Truly You've always known it, Paul - Tippit's murder is a monkey wrench in the plan and by the very fact that it is unplanned it becomes perhaps the Rosetta Stone to figuring out the assassination. On Nov 22 around 1, they are now off-script and ad-libbing because Tippit is killed. By the time of WC they are moving the times later (hulls discovered/rifle discovered/Truly's information/news of Tippit's murder/even perhaps Fritz's arrival at TSBD that he wants to make sure is never contested)..... because they now have to GET CLOSE to matching the radio logs to cover up their ad-libbing. They have to move EVERYTHING closer to 1:18 - Truly, gun, shells, everything! THE KEY: Radio logs. All the mendacity is generated by having to match the radio logs for the WC, which they never planned on having to do, because Oswald was meant to be dead asap. All of ACT III was re-written on the spot and re-written sloppily - they meant ACT III to be Tippit offs Oswald. The end. No timeframe discussion needed. NOW, for the WC, they have to explain all kinds of timestamps they never planned on having to explain - when the gun was fund, when they heard from Truly and what they heard from Truly, when they heard of Tippit's death, et al., - all this was made up as they went along and it DOESN'T WORK in retrospect. Truly has wildly different timeframes because all the cops have moved everything later to justify their actions in light of the radio logs. Truly has no radio log he has to align with his testimony. Fritz knows this is very thin and dangerous ice he's now walking on so in WC testimony FRITZ pinpoints no time whatsoever, except his arrival time at TSBD. He relies on everyone else to testify to a 1:12 timestamp and other time references, which is closer to the 1:18 radio call about Tippit....which in turn is necessary because everyone remembers that the rifle and the news about Tippit come in rapid succession. Follow me? 17 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Yet let me ask you, Jason. I might be mistaken, but you continually bring us back to the possibility of Mooney finding and reporting the rifle shells at 1pm -- 11 minutes earlier than logged. Captain Fritz also seems to want to say this. What would be the consequences of accepting a timing of 1pm for finding the spent shells? What am I possibly missing here? It means that Fritz & Company are moving to Oak Cliff before there's any established reason to go to Oak Cliff...as if..they knew beforehand that the next scene in the play had to move to Oak Cliff even if in the actual event there was no plausible reason to do so. ACT III had begun. In retrospect, in front of the WC, they can only explain why ACT III moves to Oak Cliff by moving all the TSBD action closer to the 1:18 radio call (remember they were expecting a 1pm radio call from Tippit saying Oswald was shot.) They now have an 18 minute problem. The scripted call from Tippit around 1 has been replaced by the uscripted call from a citizen at 1:18. The radio logs and TSBD timeframes as testified by Truly and Craig don't match up well - because in fact Fritz is changing the scenery to ACT III in Oak Cliff, just as if -according to script- Tippit had shot Oswald. Maybe he hopes Tippit has shot Oswald and he just hasn't heard about it yet. THEN --->total misfire--->Tippit is dead and they hear about it AFTER director Fritz is already moving ACT III to Oak Cliff. EMERGENCY conference with Decker required. ===***===***=== THEY HAD TO GET GOING TO OAK CLIFF whether there's a radio announcement or not. In the event, instead of Tippit calling in at 1 to say Oswald is dead, there was dead air. Dead air for 18 minutes. PROBLEM...they'd already established in a script that they find the shells, the rifle, and hear from Truly by 1:06. So they acted the script until the snafu of Tippit's missing radio call ignites timeframe chaos. In other words - the script is going right on cue....until....dead air....Where's the call from Tippit saying Oswald's dead? ...dead air.... (but the players nervously continue on script moving the action towards Oak Cliff) 1:18 FINALLY, a relevant transmission = Tippit is dead, not Oswald. Emergency. Immediate conference between Decker and Fritz required. In your CT, IIRC, Fritz already knows Oswald is the patsy when the day begins and on 22 November Fritz is acting at all times with this knowledge. However, by the time of WC testimony, his actions that day must look as if he has no idea who shot JFK until Truly says Oswald is missing. With (1) the missing critical scene where Tippit shoots Oswald and (2) with the off-script event of the Tippit shooting, ALL THE TSBD action has to happen later - 15-20 minutes later, because the Tippit shooting is reported 15-20 minutes later than the scripted transmission from Tippet they were expecting. If Oswald was supposed to be dead anyway by Tippit's gun, none of this timing question was going to matter. Dead president, dead assassin. Neat. Easy. ACCORDING TO SCRIPT: No one's going to go looking into the timeframe of all the TSBD events AND no one's going to go looking into the timeframe to explain how Oswald was caught because lone-cop Tippit caught Oswald singlehandedly just by good intincts. No need to methodically rebuild the TSBD timeframe to show how they were able to capture Oswald. ...But in the actual event they are playing it by ear, and by the time of WC testimony they have to explain how/when/why Tippit was shot and how/when they hear of Tippit's death, plus how/when/why they leave TSBD when they do, plus how/when/why they manage to catch Oswald at Texas Theatre...all of which in the actual event was done on the fly and off script, but now has to be sloppily half-way sorta explained to the WC and matched reasonably well to radio logs. THEREFORE, Fritz testifies to nothing about time frame. It's a giant quagmire for him because he's at the center of all relevant acts in the play; in fact he is the play's director. HOWEVER, other less involved characters can help Fritz out of this jam and establish the 1:12 time frame because they aren't so wrapped up in explaining their behavior, they just take orders...but Fritz has to explain WHY he gives the orders when he does. So he has no timestamp in his testomony. You've been right all along here - the timeframe tells us everything and Tippit's murder interacts with the timeframe by throwing it off by at least 20 minutes. Remember - the script is in effect and everything has pre-planned times such as the TSBD events...but...the 1o'clock scene fails to materialize when Tippit doesn't call saying Oswald is dead. Fritz knew it in his testimony, so he offers no timeframe, but makes darn sure everyone else makes a timeframe to explain Fritz's decisions and movements. Furthermore, I ask you to think deeper about the consequences of Tippit's unplanned murder on the day's script. Tippit killing Oswald was meant to be THE END...., ....THINK what NOT HAVING the expected call from Tippit announcing the assassin is dead, the case is solved, the play is over, the script is done, everyone can go home now.... ....means to a. the post-1pm actions on 22NOV and b. the WC testimony that has to explain the post-Tippit events and match it to the radio logs. Everything has for awhile spun out of control, now timeframes must be fixed retroactively from the original script to match radio logs in the aftermath of Tippit's death. Follow me??????? Jason An actor missed his cue, the actor, Tippit, was dead. Now it's ad-lib time and the messy WC testimony has to cover up the ad-libbing, AND...radio transcripts now must lead the given testimony. It was meant to be an open-and-shut case with no close radio log scrutiny, no Tippit murder, and certainly no absurd Ruby-murdering-Oswald in police custody. Without the unplanned Tippit murder and Ruby fiasco, the radio logs et al. never come in to play because who would care?....IMO. [Of course, if Tippit's murder was part of the plan, disregard everything in this post.] Compare to the testimony of the boy Mike Robinson overhearing the conversation in the men's room of DPD HQ documented by Walt Brown....the testimony that Oswald should be dead according to script, not Tippit. Edited April 14, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: ... But after 3pm CST the new dogma of the Lone Nut came out of Waggoner Carr and Henry Wade's offices. It was at this time that Fritz and Curry had to "find" new things in Oswald's pockets. This is why their timeline looks so sloppy -- this and the fact that Tippit failed to shoot Oswald in the street. ... YES. This makes sense to me. The sudden switch to the Lone Nut narrative -in the afternoon of a day that was meant to unmask a commie conspiracy paying Oswald with Castro's money- also requires reversing some of the evidence pointing to conspiracy already briefly established by that point in the script. Shouldn't we look at the early TSBD events post-assassination as still on the commie conspiracy script, which included Oswald's immediate death and a quick end to the story? The Mauser bugs me. There has to be a reason all the men you say are conspirators mention it - this is no mistake. Mauser or not is irrelevant, the relevant part is so many mention the Mauser. Your point of a midday change to Lone Nut instead of commie conspiracy can finally explain the Mauser enough for me. Sure, they always meant to find Oswald's rifle. They had him bring it to work. But didn't they also mean to ignite near hysteria across the nation with the revelation of a commie conspiracy, a conspiracy in which at least one [Mauser using] conspirator remains at large? Couldn't the Mauser + Tippit's death + Walther's trunk full of file cabinets signal places where the script was changed even after SOME of the commie conspiracy script was already acted out as planned? Why is the rest of the day + Saturday such a blank page as to what's happening at DPD headquarters? 1. They have to hastily wrench evidence into a Lone Nut narrative, and discard conspiracy evidence such as: 6 file cabinets, witnesses including cops going to the grassy knoll, + the Mauser, -and- of course they must 2. stage an improbable murder of Oswald, and the best they come up with is so absurd that it defies belief. Paul, I think they were hoping for another red scare and even war. Perhaps they even had a list of political enemies on the Left who would be revealed as connected to Oswald or Castro. But, as you say, the script changed to Lone Nut....but don't artifacts of the commie conspiracy narrative become apparent in all this testimony? Jason Edited April 14, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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