Where is the exit?

[Ray Mitcham]

Post by Rick.

"John,

To me, it looks like passenger aircraft are in the reflection on the limo - if so, this clip is while they are still at Love Field.  I could seriously be mistaken as well.  Do you have confirmation of the location of this clip?"

Oops.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Ray Mitcham

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

36 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Because there was no hole shown in the Zapruder film doesn't mean there wasn't one there,(alteration of the film- what is the pitch black insert over where the hole would be in the President's head.) Tom Wilson found a hole in the back of JFK's head as shown here.

As far as the autopsy photos and the X-rays are concerned, there are extreme doubts about whether they are kosher.

Considering we are talking about the possibilities of fakery in the Zap film and the autopsy and x ray photos, I would rather go with the original testimony of the doctors at Parkland, who had no reason to lie.

Ray,

The Zapruder film nor the Mary Moreman photo or the X-rays or the autopsy pictures are not fake.  Tom Wilson did not find a hole in the back of JFK's head in the Mary Moreman photo.

JFK was shot from the pergola with a bullet entering his head from the right and exiting the top of his head.  Very simple.  This is what the photographic and film evidence shows.  No one shot the president from the front.

If he was shot from the front and the bullet exited the back of his head, that bullet would have hit the follow-up car in the windshield.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Keyvan Shahrdar

[Ray Mitcham]

4 minutes ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

Ray,

The Zapruder film nor the Mary Moreman photo or the X-rays or the autopsy pictures are not fake.  Tom Wilson did not find a hole in the back of JFK's head in the Mary Moreman photo.

"The Zapruder film nor the Mary Moreman photo or the X-rays or the autopsy pictures are not fake, in my opinion."

There fixed for you Keyvan.

p.s. I never said  the Moorman photo was a fake.

"Tom Wilson did not find a hole in the back of JFK's head in the Mary Moreman photo."

Can you not see the cavity in the back of JFK's head in her photo? I can. (Try enlarging the photo)

Edited August 14, 2018 by Ray Mitcham

[Michael Cross]

Looking at the clip, the shape of JFK's cheek never changes.  The light on it varies which makes it appear to change shape.  If I had time and access to photoshop I would overlay a template to demonstrate.

[Michael Cross]

6 minutes ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

 

If he was shot from the front and the bullet exited the back of his head, that bullet would have hit the follow-up car in the windshield.

Only if he was shot from directly in front.  If you define front as anything forward of a 90 degree line extending from both sides of the center of JFK's head, there are hundreds of locations mathematically (in degrees) that work without hitting the follow up car. Or Jackie.  

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

1 minute ago, Ray Mitcham said:

"The Zapruder film nor the Mary Moreman photo or the X-rays or the autopsy pictures are not fake, in my opinion."

There fixed for you Keyvan.

"Tom Wilson did not find a hole in the back of JFK's head in the Mary Moreman photo."

Can you not see the cavity in the back of JFK's head in her photo? I can.

Ray, 

In order for the bullet to exit JFK in the read right hemisphere of his head, a bullet had to enter his head from the front, wherein the front do you suppose that the bullet entered?

1. There is no hole in the front windshield of the limo, there is a crack.  The cracked front windshield of the limo is stored in the national archives.  There is no hole.

2. There is a hole in the top of his skull, you can see brain matter come out of his skull in the Zapruder film.

3. If there was an exit wound to the rear of JFK, you would have seen brain matter come out of the Zapruder film.

4. There is no cavity in the back of JFK's head in the Mary Moreman photo.

[Ray Mitcham]

4 minutes ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

Ray, 

In order for the bullet to exit JFK in the read right hemisphere of his head, a bullet had to enter his head from the front, wherein the front do you suppose that the bullet entered?

1. There is no hole in the front windshield of the limo, there is a crack.  The cracked front windshield of the limo is stored in the national archives.  There is no hole.

2. There is a hole in the top of his skull, you can see brain matter come out of his skull in the Zapruder film.

3. If there was an exit wound to the rear of JFK, you would have seen brain matter come out of the Zapruder film.

4. There is no cavity in the back of JFK's head in the Mary Moreman photo.

1. IMO he was hit through the right temple, but not through the windshield

2. Agreed, but prove it is genuine.

3. Agreed but the area where you would have seen brain matter exiting is covered with a black block.

4. I believe you can see a cavity, yellow arrowed here.

You will need to enlarge to photo.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Ray Mitcham

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

1 minute ago, Ray Mitcham said:

1. IMO the right temple.

2. Agreed, but prove it is genuine.

3. Agreed but the area where it would have exited is covered with a black block.

4. I believe you can see a cavity, yellow arrowed here.

 

1. IMO the right temple. - Then that would be the other magic bullet.  If it enters the right temple, it then would have to make a 90 degree turn to exit the back of the skull.  If you look at the Zapruder film, his head was tilted to the left when he got hit.  He got hit above the right ear near the temple area and the bullet exited the top of his skull.

2. Agreed, but prove it is genuine. - You would have to prove it is not genuine.  Is there any academic study that proves that these images are fake? I can answer that - NO!

3. Agreed but the area where it would have exited is covered with a black block. - There is no black block covering any hole in JFK's head in the Zapruder film.

4. I believe you can see a cavity, yellow arrowed here. - There is no cavity there, just hair.

Ray,

There is a lot of misinformation out there.  Follow the photographic and film evidence.  It shows that JFK was murdered as a result of a conspiracy.  There were other shooters besides Oswald is a fact.

[Michael Cross]

1 hour ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

1. IMO the right temple. - Then that would be the other magic bullet.  If it enters the right temple, it then would have to make a 90 degree turn to exit the back of the skull.  If you look at the Zapruder film, his head was tilted to the left when he got hit.  He got hit above the right ear near the temple area and the bullet exited the top of his skull.

 

From what angle Keyvan?  You know the specific location of a shooter.  An angle from the front right entering the right side of JFK's forehead - with him slumped - would go through the back right of his head.  You seem to be assuming a specific location.

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

23 minutes ago, Michael Cross said:

From what angle Keyvan?  You know the specific location of a shooter.  An angle from the front right entering the right side of JFK's forehead - with him slumped - would go through the back right of his head.  You seem to be assuming a specific location.

Hi Michael,

I would like for you to draw an oblong circle in a piece of paper, quarter that circle and show me how an entry in the right temple area of that oblong circle will exit the right rear area of that oblong circle if the shot came from somewhere from the front right.  If you look at the Zapruder film, his head was slumped to the left.  Besides that, there is photographic and film evidence that shows two gunmen in the pergola shooting at the limo.  You can see the gunmen in the Mary Moreman Photo and in the nix film.  He got shot from the right and the bullet exited the top of his head.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Keyvan Shahrdar

[Mark Lawson]

2 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

"The Zapruder film nor the Mary Moreman photo or the X-rays or the autopsy pictures are not fake, in my opinion."

There fixed for you Keyvan.

Apologies in advance if the following posting belongs in another discussion thread, but since this one continues to circle back to the credibility of the JFK autopsists and the evidence (or lack of it) that they produced, I will wade in with this:

In the Conclusion to his State Secret e-book, Bill Simpich writes: "... I'm always reminded that the [assassination] planners needed someone in the Navy [i.e., JFK's personal physician, Dr. (Admiral) George Burkley] to smooth the way for the controlled autopsy at the Bethesda Naval Hospital.... White House medical officer George Burkley ... did his best to control the autopsy ... [and he] was answering to Lyndon Johnson, and not the Kennedy family...."

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Conclusion.html

Other reports, including the HSCA Boswell-Purdy interview, portray Burkley's role as prominent or even domineering: "... Dr. Burkley was basically supervising everything that went on in the autopsy room and ... the commanding officer was also responding to Burkley's wishes...."

Yet, Simpich goes on to state that it was Secret Service agent (and, according to Simpich, possible assassination co-conspirator) Roy Kellerman who "... [took] possession of the autopsy photographs, the unprocessed negatives and the X-Rays during the night of the autopsy...."

Clouding matters further: In the article "How Five Investigations Into JFK’s Medical/Autopsy Evidence Got it Wrong," by Dr. Gary L. Aguilar and Kathy Cunningham, reference is made to "26 persons" being present at the JFK autopsy.  The included table of witnesses lists only 22 of them, but conspicuously absent from that list is Dr. Burkley - even though he is reported elsewhere to have signed the "official White House death certificate" of JFK.

List of 22 (of 26 total) witnesses to JFK autopsy: https://history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/How5Investigations/How5InvestigationsGotItWrong_tabfig.htm#Table_2

Possibly explaining the absence of Burkley's name from the above-referenced list, David Talbot, in his 2007 book Brothers, apparently citing William Manchester's The Death of a President, states on page 15 (First Free Press trade paperback edition, June 2008): "The [Kennedy] family's medical representative, JFK's personal physician Dr. Burkley, was banished from the morgue [emphasis added] soon after the eight-hour procedure began, and he joined the Kennedy group in the tower [on the seventeenth floor of the Bethesda Naval Hospital]."

 Clear as mud?  ML

[John Butler]

Rick,

 This is the Bob Yeargan film taken on Main Street near Market street I believe.  The next street up is Record before the Old Court House.  Other parts of the film clearly show you the location.  Go to youtube and key in AMIPA film and watch.  You can see the blue-grey building mentioned by Jackie Kennedy if you are standing at the intersection of Main and Houston looking east.

You folks who are questioning the location of the film should watch the film.  That will remove the doubts you have.  It clearly shows the location to be Main Street. If you don't watch the film then you are not qualified to make a serious comment.  Ray, you need to do your homework better.  Watch the film before you comment.

What you see on the side of the limo is buildings on Main Street.  I wish the Altgens series of photos, the Zapruder film, and others showed reflections as well.  I have speculated that they should but, that someone has darkened the sides of the limo.  Tina Towner would have been nice if the sides of the limo let you see who was on the SW corner of Houston and Elm.

Edited August 14, 2018 by John Butler

[John Butler]

Keyvan,

This photo is explained by some work I did on Jackie Kennedy's dress and the blood stains on it.

http://jfkrunningthegauntlet.com/2018/07/08/jackie-kennedys-dress-lies-lies-lies/

You will note the mess in the limo.  Jackie Kennedy's clothes shouldn't be as "clean" as they are if she sat in that mess.

This website expires on Aug. 19, 2018.  So, if you want to read this article then it needs to be done by the expiration date.

 

[Chris Davidson]

2 hours ago, Michael Cross said:

Only if he was shot from directly in front.  If you define front as anything forward of a 90 degree line extending from both sides of the center of JFK's head, there are hundreds of locations mathematically (in degrees) that work without hitting the follow up car. Or Jackie.  

The only muzzle blast assemblance I've found.

This occurs four Bronson frames (1/3 second) after the extant z313 headshot.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZh5FUEcE9k3vKAAzIgRlW9URBCsfZbc/view?usp=sharing

 

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

10 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

The only muzzle blast assemblance I've found.

This occurs four Bronson frames (1/3 second) after the extant z313 headshot.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZh5FUEcE9k3vKAAzIgRlW9URBCsfZbc/view?usp=sharing

 

Chris, can you zoom in on the pergola, to the left of Zapruder, where the windows are and put it on slow motion?