JFK Secret Service Agent: hole in windshield of limo!

[Tom Gram]

6 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

When you put the windshields side-by-side, you can see the difference in the damage. I'm sorry, but these are NOT the same windshields.

Could the 3-point star shape pattern just be rotated ~160 degrees clockwise in the NARA photo due to a different angle of the camera; the crack in the bottom right of the first photo (top left of NARA photo) have grown through the “star” due to handling, age, etc.; and the “top” of the “star” look longer in the first photo due to it being closer to the camera? 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Gil Jesus]

6 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Could the 3-point star shape pattern just be rotated ~160 degrees clockwise in the NARA photo due to a different angle of the camera; the crack in the bottom right of the first photo (top left of NARA photo) have grown through the “star” due to handling, age, etc.; and the “top” of the “star” look longer in the first photo due to it being closer to the camera? 

No amount of turning is going to put an impact mark on the windshield on the right.

[Pamela Brown]

1 hour ago, Gil Jesus said:

No amount of turning is going to put an impact mark on the windshield on the right.

The long striations on the NARA windshield are from the Arlington Glass men kicking it out with their feet...

[Pamela Brown]

7 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Could the 3-point star shape pattern just be rotated ~160 degrees clockwise in the NARA photo due to a different angle of the camera; the crack in the bottom right of the first photo (top left of NARA photo) have grown through the “star” due to handling, age, etc.; and the “top” of the “star” look longer in the first photo due to it being closer to the camera? 

The Arlington Glass men kicked the windshield out with their feet...

[Pamela Brown]

22 hours ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

I have seen a photo showing a hole in the floor. Robyn Unger has seen it too, but has not included it on his website.

I have seen an FBI internal letter re the hole in the floor.

There is a newspaper report re the hole in the floor, but i have not been able to find that snippet.

I suppose that Ferguson kept the piece of carpet with the hole, & kept it a secret.

The floor of the limo will still have the hole, but u would need to get under to see the hole, steel plate (i dont think that it was titanium) was installed on top of the floor hence u wont see the hole from above.

The hole was made by the remnant slug from Oswald's shot-1 at say Z113 that ricocheted offa the western side of the western guy rod of the overhead signals below his window.

Holland says it was at Z103 i think. I am happy to split the difference -- Z108.

The 2 broken half jackets (brass or copper) found in the limo are from shot-1.

Some of the lead splatter from shot-1 hit jfk in the back of the head -- vizible in Xrays.

That (Z103 108 113) is when jfk said my god i have been hit -- as per what Kellerman said.

But jfk apparently got over the shock in a few seconds & somehow for some reason carried on as if nothing had happened. Bad move.

Oswald fired shot-2 at about Z218 -- the magic bullet that went throo jfk & Connally.

Oswald did not use the telescopic sight. And he made 3 holes, 1 in jfk, 1 in Connally, & one in the limo.

I will look forward to your posting links and/or cites for your assertions...

BTW, I consider Holland something of a WC apologist, so I don't give much weight to anything he says...

and also...I don't think there was a Magic Bullet...but you are entitled to your opinion...

Here's my take on that...

 

[Tom Gram]

2 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

No amount of turning is going to put an impact mark on the windshield on the right.

That is a valid point. I’m just looking for ways that it could match up, since the 3-point “star” feature does look nearly identical but rotated in the two photos. That mark does look like it’s embedded in the glass, but could it be a lead smear from impact of a bullet fragment, or something like that? I have no idea. 

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

55 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

I will look forward to your posting links and/or cites for your assertions...

BTW, I consider Holland something of a WC apologist, so I don't give much weight to anything he says...

and also...I don't think there was a Magic Bullet...but you are entitled to your opinion...

Here's my take on that...

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57753#relPageId=27

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

[Ron Ege]

On 9/22/2022 at 9:31 AM, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

I have seen a photo showing a hole in the floor. Robyn Unger has seen it too, but has not included it on his website.

I have seen an FBI internal letter re the hole in the floor.

There is a newspaper report re the hole in the floor, but i have not been able to find that snippet.

I suppose that Ferguson kept the piece of carpet with the hole, & kept it a secret.

The floor of the limo will still have the hole, but u would need to get under to see the hole, steel plate (i dont think that it was titanium) was installed on top of the floor hence u wont see the hole from above.

The hole was made by the remnant slug from Oswald's shot-1 at say Z113 that ricocheted offa the western side of the western guy rod of the overhead signals below his window.

Holland says it was at Z103 i think. I am happy to split the difference -- Z108.

The 2 broken half jackets (brass or copper) found in the limo are from shot-1.

Some of the lead splatter from shot-1 hit jfk in the back of the head -- vizible in Xrays.

That (Z103 108 113) is when jfk said my god i have been hit -- as per what Kellerman said.

But jfk apparently got over the shock in a few seconds & somehow for some reason carried on as if nothing had happened. Bad move.

Oswald fired shot-2 at about Z218 -- the magic bullet that went throo jfk & Connally.

Oswald did not use the telescopic sight. And he made 3 holes, 1 in jfk, 1 in Connally, & one in the limo.

Marjan.

I am curious to when, where, and how Oswald was able to develop the shooting skill that he was alleged to have demonstrated that day - especially since world class, expert riflemen (snipers some, with "nerves of steel") were unable to replicate it.

Developing such skills, would've taken untold hours upon hours of practice and beaucoup ammunition - neither of which Oswald was ever known or been reported to have had.

Two USMC rifle qualification opportunities at non-moving targets, the last being well before 11/22/63, would hardly have "done the trick".  Oswald also would've needed a similar "moving target" during his "practice sessions".

 

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

3 hours ago, Ron Ege said:

Marjan.

I am curious to when, where, and how Oswald was able to develop the shooting skill that he was alleged to have demonstrated that day - especially since world class, expert riflemen (snipers some, with "nerves of steel") were unable to replicate it.

Developing such skills, would've taken untold hours upon hours of practice and beaucoup ammunition - neither of which Oswald was ever known or been reported to have had.

Two USMC rifle qualification opportunities at non-moving targets, the last being well before 11/22/63, would hardly have "done the trick".  Oswald also would've needed a similar "moving target" during his "practice sessions".

 

Shot-1 at pseudo Z103-113 that hit the signal arm was not difficult -- anyone could have dunnit.

Shot-2 at Z218 hit jfk in the back, a few inches off center, a good shot, he had had over 5 seconds to reload & aim using the Carcano steel sights, & jfk was going away rather than across, almost a stationary target -- anyhow one good shot duznt prove much.

Oswald decided not to fire his remaining bullet -- which would have been fired at about Z313 -- Oswald had already stood up & back from the window at Z313 -- & he saw Hickey blow jfk's head apart at Z313-- anyhow Oswald must have been happy with his shot-2 -- alltho that duznt make much sense koz i feel sure that Oswald could not have been sure whether or where he might have hit jfk -- there was no explosion of blood & guts -- almost no obvious reaction from jfk -- just a slight raising of his hands & a slight lean forward -- so why did Oswald decide not to fire again -- a mystery -- praps Oswald suddenly went into flight mode.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[Tony Krome]

1 hour ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

Shot-1 at pseudo Z103-113 that hit the signal arm was not difficult -- anyone could have dunnit.

Do you think that bullet striking the signal arm created a loud cracking metallic sound? Before you answer, stand under any type of metal infrastructure, and ask a friend to fire a round into it. Take note of what you heard, then look through the hundreds of witness statements for such a report.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

6 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Do you think that bullet striking the signal arm created a loud cracking metallic sound? Before you answer, stand under any type of metal infrastructure, and ask a friend to fire a round into it. Take note of what you heard, then look through the hundreds of witness statements for such a report.

Say shot-1 was at Z111 -- ricochet at Z112 -- bang of shot (& the slug)(& the ping of the ricochet) hits limo etc at Z113 -- brain hears bang & ping at say Z116 -- brain tells other parts of brain about the bang & ping at say Z117 -- brain reacts (startle) at say Z121 -- brain reacts (duck) at say Z125.

In the meantime Elm St is full of echoes during say Z114 to Z132 (ie about 1 sec).

Nearly forgot -- if the slug broke the sound barrier then it will make a krack in addition to the bang & klunk.

Then we have the thunk of the slug on the floor of the limo -- plus a thunk on the driveshaft & the thud on the tarmac under the limo.

Bang ping crack thunk thud & echoes.

Ear witnesses could not even agree on how many shots they had heard -- or when they heard them.

No -- the ping is a dead duck. Anyhow the ping was off the western guy rod not the main pipe -- hence there would not be much ringing etc of the metal structure.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[Tony Krome]

43 minutes ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

brain reacts (startle) at say Z121 -- brain reacts (duck) at say Z125.

Lets go to the alleged source of the shots. 3 guys hanging out windows about 10 feet under the Sniper's Nest. You speak of reaction. After the 3rd shot, one of the 3 guys said to the others along the lines of, I don't think it was a backfire, it was somebody shooting at the president. Another one of the guys told the WC, "The first shot, I really did not pay any attention to it." No "startle" or "reaction" there. So my question is, where do you believe the shot came from that hit the signal arm?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

42 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Lets go to the alleged source of the shots. 3 guys hanging out windows about 10 feet under the Sniper's Nest. You speak of reaction. After the 3rd shot, one of the 3 guys said to the others along the lines of, I don't think it was a backfire, it was somebody shooting at the president. Another one of the guys told the WC, "The first shot, I really did not pay any attention to it." No "startle" or "reaction" there. So my question is, where do you believe the shot came from that hit the signal arm?

Oswald fired his shot-1 between say pseudo Z101-Z113 -- from his sniper nest.

Oswald fired his shot-2 at say Z215 hitting jfk & connally at say Z218.

[Tony Krome]

2 hours ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

Oswald fired his shot-1 between say pseudo Z101-Z113 -- from his sniper nest.

Care to explain why a guy 10 feet from the business end of a firing rifle stated to the Warren Commission that he "did not pay any attention to it" ?