Some Tidbits about Mexico City

[David Josephs]

Hoover covered for the CIA...  I believe this is why:

 

As JFK traveled and spoke around the country, it appears that "someone" was making sure the "Oswald presence" was established in the weeks leading up to that fateful date

 

What was it about the latter part of September?   Richard Case Nagell:

[Ray Mitcham]

Was Oswald 's signature not found  in an atomic energy site visitor's book? I remember reading about it but can't remember where and when.

[David Josephs]

29 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Was Oswald 's signature not found  in an atomic energy site visitor's book? I remember reading about it but can't remember where and when.

Yes Ray... I believe that was in Tennessee... back in July

https://goo.gl/images/mfFpRm

[Ray Mitcham]

Thanks, David.

[Steve Thomas]

3 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Was Oswald 's signature not found  in an atomic energy site visitor's book? I remember reading about it but can't remember where and when.

Ray,

 

Recollections of Robert Fitzpatrick

(25H924) CE 2549 CD 24 pp. 1-17

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1141#relPageId=954

Lee, Marina and daughter June came to Mobile (Alabama) on Saturday, July 27, 1963.

 

See Mary Ferrell Chronologies

July 26, 1963 The visitor's register at the Atomic Energy Museum in Oak Ridge, Tenn is signed by a “Lee H. Oswald, USSR, Dallas Rd. Dallas, TX.”

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40391#relPageId=18&tab=page

pp. 18-19

FBI determines this is not in the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald.

 

Steve Thomas

[David Josephs]

11 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

FBI determines this is not in the handwriting of Lee Harvey Oswald.

and never bothered to look into who and why someone would want to place Oswald there with those details

at the same time the little family is 500 miles away in Mobile.  It is 650 miles from New Orleans to Oak Ridge...

How did the FBI determine that?  While there are obvious discrepancies with other signatures like the Cuban visa & the airmail  Envelope

[Guest]

Mexico City Files.

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt

 

Oswald MC Files

Oswald Mexico City

Oswald Mexico City - 2

Oswald MC in NYT

Oswald MC

Oswald Mexico City Files

[Guest]

On 8/30/2018 at 9:51 AM, Steve Thomas said:

July 26, 1963 The visitor's register at the Atomic Energy Museum in Oak Ridge, Tenn is signed by a “Lee H. Oswald, USSR, Dallas Rd. Dallas, TX.”

At the risk of pointing out the obvious:

1.  Note how few visitors the American Museum of Atomic Energy apparently had - a mere 19 between July 21 and July 29, if we can believe the visitor's register.

2.  Note that 17 of the 19 visitors appear to have been from Texas - for a museum in Tennessee?

3.  Note that on the day "Oswald" visited, three others did also - all from Texas, of course (Richardson, Gilmer and Tuleta).  (July 26, 1963 was a Friday and was the day before the real Oswald gave his speech at the Jesuit seminary in Mobile.)

4.  The next day, three more visited - all from Texas, of course.

I'm not suggesting anything in particular.  I have no idea what to make of this.  It just seems odd.  Certainly no one up to anything sinister would have signed a visitor's register in this way.

Because of the addition of "USSR" besides "Oswald's" signature, my guess would be that this was a joke - someone added "USSR" just in case the joke wasn't obvious enough.  But this would have been an extremely obscure joke - on top of which, Oswald was living in New Orleans, not Dallas, on 7-26-63.  (Note also the odd "address" - "Dallas Rd.", which actually does exist outside Dallas in Grapevine.)

My bottom-line guess would be that this was a group from the Dallas area and this was an inside joke - "Let's see what the Atomic Energy folks think about a Commie visiting their museum!"  But for this to be a joke, someone would have had to have known who Oswald was from his time in Dallas.  It would be interesting to attempt to trace the other July 26th names on the register.  I spent a few minutes on J. C. Wade of Gilmer, TX, without turning up anything startling.

 

[James DiEugenio]

Interesting about Tennessee and Milwaukee since the WR had him  as not in either place.

I guess we now have the Lopez Report finally declassified en toto.  This is only 22 years after the ARRB closed down.

I have not read it since I revised my last book in 2016.  But no rational or objective person can read that report without congratulating the two authors.  It is amazing how deep they got into a record  of which the Warren Report never even scratched the surface. In fact to compare the Lopez Report with the Slawson/Coleman report is to see just how utterly negligent the Commission was.  As people like David Jospehs, and inadvertently Philip Shenon, have shown, it was the Secretary of the Interior Mr. Echeverria who essentially sidelined Willens and Slawson from doing any real inquiry in MC.  As Josephs shows, it was Echeverria and his Man Friday, Ochoa, who then constructed the cover up for the CIA.  Coincidentally (or not) Echeverria later became the president of Mexico.

BTW, is the lost chapter in there now?  The one Eddie Lopez was so surprised was gone?  Namely, "Was Oswald an Agent of the CIA?"

Edited September 28, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Everyone should click the second tab above that Bart posted.

First, you will see how tuned in the Schweiker Hart committee was to the case. Second, you will see how fast the CIA wanted the photo and the tape sent to the FBI at the request of Clarke Anderson down in Mexico to disappear. For the simple reason that neither was of Oswald. And Phillips was involved in this.  By the evening of the 23rd that tactic is bearing fruit.  But not everyone in the FBI is ready to go along with the disappearing act. I have always felt that Phillips' almost frantic attempt to make that evidence disappear, and his concurrent attempts to somehow incriminate Oswald after the fact, these were indicators of his role in the plot.

[David Andrews]

I have no idea if this means anything, but the word Texas written at the end of several lines on the page, including the signature lines for those just ahead of Oswald, is written in similar style, with a looping T.  Perhaps that was a popular penmanship style in the mid-20th century, but I didn't take it away from my penmanship courses in the 1960s.  Do we have other capital Ts purported to be Oswald's to compare?

Also, does an Oswald sign-in forged after the assassination depend on the first visitors on July 27 ("Mr.+ Mrs.") having left a blank above their names to separate themselves from the July 26 sign-ins? 

Another possible scenario: The first sign-ins on July 27 arrive, a couple on a mission.  One of the pair forges Oswald's name on the first blank line, and dates it July 26.  The other signs below "Mr. + Mrs." Whatever-the-name dated July 27 to cover them both.  Does the "Mr. + Mrs." line look like a woman's writing?

Just saying.

Edited September 28, 2019 by David Andrews

[Guest]

On 9/27/2019 at 4:41 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Interesting about Tennessee and Milwaukee since the WR had him  as not in either place.

Which was pretty obviously correct.  One would have to ask, if there were something sinister about the Milwaukee guest register or the Oak Ridge visitor's register, why were they ever allowed to see the light of day?  Why were people reading about the Milwaukee register in the newspaper?

FWIW, the FBI did follow up on 4-10-64 with the young guy, Wood, whose signature appears immediately above "Oswald's" -

Mr. F. PIERCE WOOD, JR., who resides at 413 La Salle Street, Richardson, Texas, was interviewed at Room 202, Patterson Hall, Southern Methodist University, Dallas, Texas, and furnished the following information:

Mr. WOOD was displayed a copy of the visitors’ register, American Museum of Atomic Energy, and immediately identified his signature and address on this register under the date of July 26, 1963. It was pointed out to Mr. WOOD that on the line immediately below his signature and under the date of July 26, 1963, there appeared the name LEE H. OSWALD. Mr. WOOD stated he did not observe the person placing this name on the visitors’ register after he had signed it on July 26, 1963.

Mr. WOOD explained that he had been granted a scholarship to attend a summer workshop for administrators on higher education for adults at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, Tennessee. He visited the American Museum of Atomic Energy as part of the seminar course attended at the University of Tennessee. He stated that on July 26, 1963, a Friday, he attended class until 11:30 AM and thereafter, with several other students, proceeded to Oak Ridge, Tennessee, to visit the American Museum of Atomic Energy. He stated he remembers the group waited for approximately 30 minutes for a new tour to commence. During this period of time, between 1:15 PM and 1:45 PM, he signed the visitors’ register.

Mr. WOOD stated that he had observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD on several television broadcasts and had seen his picture in numerous newspapers and magazine articles and to the best of his remembrance, he never saw LEE HARVEY OSWALD at the American Museum of Atomic Energy on July 26, 1963.

He further explained that there were several persons waiting in the lounge area of the museum for a new tour to commence and no one conducted themselves in such a manner as to attract attention.

Mr. WOOD was displayed a picture of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, Dallas Police Department No. 5418, taken November 23, 1964 (sic). After viewing this photograph, Mr. WOOD stated it did not refresh his memory and he still does not remember seeing LEE HARVEY OSWALD at the American Museum of Atomic Energy at Oak Ridge, Tennessee.

Mr. WOOD advised he could furnish no additional information concerning the name LEE H. OSWALD being on the register of the American Museum of Atomic Energy and could think of no other person that might be able to furnish additional information regarding this matter.

So perhaps I will have to revise my guess to "this was an inside joke solely for the benefit of some student who wrote 'Lee Harvey Oswald USSR' and thought it would startle the folks at the Atomic Energy Museum."

FWIW, from 1949 to 1975, the museum was an unimposing structure located in an old WW2 cafeteria, devoted entirely to promoting peaceful uses of atomic energy.  It now attracts 65,000 visitors per year.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Guest

[Richard Price]

I also did a short search for the "Wade" signatures on the register.  What I find is that it appears to be Mr. & Mrs. J Calvin Wade and above that is Mrs. J C Wade.  It represents the mother of J. Calvin Wade (top signature) and her son and his wife (second signature).  Appears to be completely innocuous.  I found short biographical info on "Find A Grave" for both men.  Jasper Clifford "J. C." (the father) had run a dairy in Kelsey, TX and died in 1995, aged 90.  The son Junior Calvin was an educator and died aged 85 in 2013.  So, looks like nothing there with these 2 signatures.

[Guest]

Regarding “Lee Oswald’s” signature on the registry in the Milwaukee area on September 16, 1963, I wondered if Oswald in the Milwaukee area shortly before his trip to Mexico City might actually make sense.  As we know, or at least some of us do, Oswald was doing all he could to bolster his Marxist credentials before his Mexico City visit.  Could he have been attempting to obtain something toward that end in the Milwaukee area?

As it turns out, Milwaukee was a veritable hotbed of Socialist and Communist activity.  Lest you think I’m exaggerating, here are some rather suggestive quotes I have pulled from articles:

Unionists also provided the core of support for the Socialist Party that finally gained control of city government in 1910, the first major city in the United States to be governed by Socialists.

“Socialism in Milwaukee, in the early twentieth century, was part of local movements nationwide that sought to eradicate economic and political inequality through enhanced worker control at the workplace and government ownership of utilities and other essential services like public transportation,” said Connell. “Milwaukee stood out because it was the largest city governed for so long, four decades, and well past the first decades of the twentieth century by three mayors who identified as Socialists.”

The public has a better memory of the city’s third and most recent Socialist mayor, Frank P. Zeidler, whose legacy remains evident throughout the city. Zeidler was mayor from 1948 to 1960, during the most turbulent phase of the 1950-54 McCarthy Era.

"If I owned all the real estate in the world, I wouldn’t feel so powerful as I do on the streets of this Socialist city,” declared former New York City councilman Baruch Vladeck when he arrived in Milwaukee in 1932 for the Socialist Party’s national convention in that city.

See generally https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/socialists/ and https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/communist-party/.

However, I believe that the solution to this particular “Lee Oswald mystery" is well-known to both the whacked-out H&L enthusiasts (who are aptly characterized as having “no shame” in a thread on the ROKC forum dealing with this very topic: http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2014-the-man-has-no-shame).

That “Lee Oswald” was born Madison, WI, in 1940.  His real name is – wait for it – Lance!  But goes by Lee.  He was alive as of 2013 and for all I can tell is still alive.  Here is the obituary of his brother, who died in Park City, UT, in 2013:  https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/parkrecord/obituary.aspx?n=lynn-spencer-oswald&pid=166184106.

Weirdly – or perhaps not – this subject was previously discussed on this very forum:  http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25549-“the-lights-all-went-out”-and-the-elevators-stopped-while-jfk-was-murdered-shelley-and-lovelady-were-near-the-bottom-of-the-back-staircase-by-the-electrical-panel-and-vickie-adams-saw-them-until-everyones-story-changed/page/49/.

There, as on the ROKC site, you will find the following 1961 photo of “Lake Mendoza lifeguard” Lee Oswald.  (You will note that the H&L thread came to a rather abrupt end with the discussion of this photo.  But that doesn't stop the H&L crew from resurrecting the "mystery" here, does it?  Or Jim Di from endorsing it here, does it?)

 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

Here is Lance Oswald and his wife Peg in 2017:  https://grandvalleyuu.org/blog/archives/02-2017.  The names in this article all match those in his brother's obituary.  My guess is that he dropped the "Lee" nickname for obvious reasons.

Insofar as I can tell, he lives in Grand Junction, COLO.  Track him down, intrepid researchers.  (I quickly found an address and phone number, but I am not going to invade a fellow Lance's privacy by contacting him or posting them here.  Don't tell him Lance sent you.)

My guess is that he will tell you that is indeed his name on the registry but that he did not write "Dallas, Texas," which looks like different handwriting and is angled very oddly as though it had been crudely added in.  I have confirmed that there were and still are Oswalds living in Hubertus, but I don't know exactly who was living there in 1961 or what the relationship to Lance/Lee (if any) may have been.  Since he was hardly a reclusive mystery man, surely the FBI managed to track him down and solve the "Hubertus mystery."

Patricia Stanley, the proprietor quoted in the newspaper article, died in 2008 at the age of 82 - so intrepid conspiracy researchers missed their 44-year opportunity to follow up with her.