Sage advice the (late) best-selling author Harrison Edward Livingstone gave me in early 1991

[Vince Palamara]

by vincepalamara

Sage advice the (late) best-selling author Harrison Edward Livingstone gave me in early 1991. At that point, I scrapped my manuscript (which was nothing but other people’s work, more or less) and went head first into contacting and interviewing as many Secret Service agents as I could, thus “cornering the market”, so to speak. Livingstone was the co-author of HIGH TREASON + he authored HIGH TREASON 2, KILLING THE TRUTH, KILLING KENNEDY [not the lone nut book with the same title!], THE RADICAL RIGHT, and many others. He passed away in 2015. Livingstone and I interviewed JFK autopsy witness Jerrol Custer on 11/22/91 (for HT2) and Steve Barber in 1992 (for KTT).

[Joe Bauer]

Vince, did Livingstone share much of his thoughts regarding your specific area of study of the SS and especially those personally involved in the security of JFK?

Did HL feel that the SS had some role ( nefarious or not ) in any part of the JFK event story?

Did you see any of the negative takes on Livingstone such as his difficulty in personal engagement? Was he a "pill" at times?

[Lawrence Schnapf]

does anyone know what happened to Livingston's research materials? are they stored at some university. with so many witnesses passing the last few years, his interview notes along with those of Marrs are invaluable and historically important.

[Vince Palamara]

11 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Vince, did Livingstone share much of his thoughts regarding your specific area of study of the SS and especially those personally involved in the security of JFK?

Did HL feel that the SS had some role ( nefarious or not ) in any part of the JFK event story?

Did you see any of the negative takes on Livingstone such as his difficulty in personal engagement? Was he a "pill" at times?

Hi, Joe! Oh, yes--Harry definitely believed there was some Secret Service involvement. He was especially suspicious of Bill Greer (although NOT as a shooter). He admired my work and mentioned me in the two newer editions of High Treason, as well as High Treason 2, Killing The Truth, Killing Kennedy and The Radical Right.

The small chapter on the Secret Service in High Treason was a huge inspiration for me back in 1989. When I met Harry at the Third Decade conference in Fredonia, NY in June 1991, he was pleasant, albeit also a little gruff at times (he remembered my Feb. 1991 letter that was actually meant for his "co-author" Groden! As it turns out, Harry actually wrote High Treason and Groden only added the photos and his reputation to the book).

HUGE yes to your last sentence LOL!! Harry was actually a nice guy trapped in a tortured soul. He inherited some money (and he made a lot from his first two books, both NY Times best-sellers), but he was shunned from his family because he did not want to pick up the family business. Plus, his mother was abusive toward him. THIS book is Harry's autobiography: a sad and compelling (yet inspiring) book, indeed:

https://www.amazon.com/Journey-into-Whirlwind-dictatorship-mind-control/dp/1470086662/ref=sr_1_29?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1538705222&sr=1-29&keywords=harrison+livingstone

Despite having arguably the two biggest conspiracy books ever (and some of the other ones did ok, as well), Harry was shunned by most of the community for his brusque personality and especially for his book KILLING THE TRUTH, as he took several luminaries in the case to task; an ill-advised idea on his part.

That said, despite some poor writing at times, his books (especially HIGH TREASON 2) are valuable for the medical evidence and all the primary witnesses he interviewed.

 

 

 

 

[François Carlier]

6 hours ago, Vince Palamara said:

Hi, Joe! Oh, yes--Harry definitely believed there was some Secret Service involvement. He was especially suspicious of Bill Greer (although NOT as a shooter).

Pretending to be a researcher is NOT the same as being a researcher. Apparently, Palamara doesn't know the difference. Though he has spent years just compiling information (which is easy to do) on Secret Service agents, he was never able to analyze the evidence, sort facts from fiction, and apply critical thinking and common sense to the subject. So, one day he says "conspiracy", then "no conspiracy", then "conspiracy again", then what ?
But that's OK, I mean, that's not harmful.
But to slur somebody is something else. That's bad, very bad. To insult dead people is very bad too. To falsely accuse Secret Service agents, to smear their names, is disgusting.
Secret Service agents (from Clint Hill to Bill Greer) were true, honest, dedicated people, who would have given their lives to protect the President. They were brave.
To think that Palamara – who has yet to show 0.1% of such bravery – is showing pride in this forum because he has spent years launching a smear campaign against those brave men is beyond me. I think it is despicable.
(I don't know if we are allowed to use the word "despicable" in this forum, but what else can I write ? The mere thought of someone accusing Secret Service agents of an involvement in a make-believe conspiracy to assassinate John Kennedy is definitely shameful and loathsome !)

[Vince Palamara]

18 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

does anyone know what happened to Livingston's research materials? are they stored at some university. with so many witnesses passing the last few years, his interview notes along with those of Marrs are invaluable and historically important.

Hi, Lawrence!

I know a couple of researchers who are actively searching for Harry's archives- stay tuned!

 

Vince

[Andrew Prutsok]

4 hours ago, François Carlier said:

Pretending to be a researcher is NOT the same as being a researcher. Apparently, Palamara doesn't know the difference. Though he has spent years just compiling information (which is easy to do) on Secret Service agents, he was never able to analyze the evidence, sort facts from fiction, and apply critical thinking and common sense to the subject. So, one day he says "conspiracy", then "no conspiracy", then "conspiracy again", then what ?
But that's OK, I mean, that's not harmful.
But to slur somebody is something else. That's bad, very bad. To insult dead people is very bad too. To falsely accuse Secret Service agents, to smear their names, is disgusting.
Secret Service agents (from Clint Hill to Bill Greer) were true, honest, dedicated people, who would have given their lives to protect the President. They were brave.
To think that Palamara – who has yet to show 0.1% of such bravery – is showing pride in this forum because he has spent years launching a smear campaign against those brave men is beyond me. I think it is despicable.
(I don't know if we are allowed to use the word "despicable" in this forum, but what else can I write ? The mere thought of someone accusing Secret Service agents of an involvement in a make-believe conspiracy to assassinate John Kennedy is definitely shameful and loathsome !)

It's OK to say bad things about dead people who were bad.

[François Carlier]

14 minutes ago, Andrew Prutsok said:

It's OK to say bad things about dead people who were bad.

Except that they were HEROES. We should look up to them. I do. It is NOT OK to insult the memory of such fine men.

[James DiEugenio]

They were heroes?

LOL 

Yeah, that is why they were getting bombed at The Cellar the night before until 3 am, and hired fireman to protect JFK in Texas.

 

[Joe Bauer]

On 10/5/2018 at 2:13 AM, François Carlier said:

Pretending to be a researcher is NOT the same as being a researcher. Apparently, Palamara doesn't know the difference. Though he has spent years just compiling information (which is easy to do) on Secret Service agents, he was never able to analyze the evidence, sort facts from fiction, and apply critical thinking and common sense to the subject. So, one day he says "conspiracy", then "no conspiracy", then "conspiracy again", then what ?
But that's OK, I mean, that's not harmful.
But to slur somebody is something else. That's bad, very bad. To insult dead people is very bad too. To falsely accuse Secret Service agents, to smear their names, is disgusting.
Secret Service agents (from Clint Hill to Bill Greer) were true, honest, dedicated people, who would have given their lives to protect the President. They were brave.
To think that Palamara – who has yet to show 0.1% of such bravery – is showing pride in this forum because he has spent years launching a smear campaign against those brave men is beyond me. I think it is despicable.
(I don't know if we are allowed to use the word "despicable" in this forum, but what else can I write ? The mere thought of someone accusing Secret Service agents of an involvement in a make-believe conspiracy to assassinate John Kennedy is definitely shameful and loathsome !)

I seldom respond to emotion charged personal criticism postings between members on this forum. 

Being not nearly as informed usually on the subjects of contention as the forums much more accomplished researchers, and also greatly appreciative of the fact that I even have the opportunity to occasionally post along side them, I don't feel I have the earned bonafides to engage in valid criticism debate.

I do feel however that Vince Palamara should not be dismissed as a poor researcher in his area of JFK study. 

I don't know of anyone who has contributed more to the subject of JFK's personal SS security than VP.  

I also don't believe VP has treated or depicted the SS despicably or unfairly.

When a President has his head blown off in broad daylight and withing feet of his personal security, there of course will be and must be serious investigative focus on such a breakdown, especially including JFK's first line of human security.

We now know of very serious lapses in many areas of JFK's SS security leading up to and during his murder in Dallas on 11,22,1963.

Some of the most egregious were agent Bill Greer's actions during the shooting, as well as his false statements given later under oath about them. Combined, these two actions alone force a rational person to consider Greer with at least some suspicion.

On a lighter note, looking at Harrison Livingstone's picture above, the guy was a spitting image of Ulysses S. Grant.

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[François Carlier]

20 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

I seldom respond to emotion charged personal criticism postings between members on this forum. 

Being not nearly as informed usually on the subjects of contention as the forums much more accomplished researchers, and also greatly appreciative of the fact that I even have the opportunity to occasionally post along side them, I don't feel I have the earned bonafides to engage in valid criticism debate.

I do feel however that Vince Palamara should not be dismissed as a poor researcher in his area of JFK study. 

I don't know of anyone who has contributed more to the subject of JFK's personal SS security than VP.  

I don't believe he has treated or depicted the SS despicably.

When a President has his head blown off in broad daylight and withing feet of his personal security, there must be serious investigative focus on such a breakdown and that includes JFK's first line of human security.

We now know of very serious lapses in many areas of JFK's SS security leading up to and during his murder. Some of the most egregious were agent Bill Greer's actions during the shooting, and his false statements given later under oath about them just added to a rational suspicion about him.

On a lighter note, looking at Harrison Livingstone's picture above, the guy is a spitting image of Ulysses S. Grant.

 

Thank you, Sir, for your measured remarks.
I do not doubt Palamara's extensive knowledge on the Secret Service. All I am saying is that anyone who so much as hints at a possible involvement of the Secret Service in a conspiracy to assassinate the President is outright insulting fine men.
The idea of conspiracy can be put forth by researchers, I mean, I don't mind at all. Evil men exist. Assassins exist. Conspiracies have happened in history. We know that very well. And I like debating those issues.
But defamation of character, calumny or slander should be avoided at all cost. Yet, that's precisely what Palamara is resorting to when he suggests that some Secret Service agents may have been involved in an attempt to kill John Kennedy. That's not only absurd, it is libellous !
Those men were willing to risk their own lives to save JFK's.
Being a bodyguard requires skills and dedication.

[Joseph McBride]

Vince Palamara deserves great respect because he has advanced our understanding

of the case in a crucial way. He staked out territory that had been seriously neglected -- the

role of the Secret Service -- and dug into it as much as humanly possible. He came up with a wealth of fresh information, much of it revealing and incriminating, and he's still at it. He exemplifies Penn Jones's advice (given to me and other researchers), to take a neglected area of the case "and research the hell out of it." I am surprised that anyone could question Palamara's dedication and contribution. But as has long been said, you know a man by the enemies he makes -- in Vince's case, both inside and outside the Secret Service.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Joseph McBride

[François Carlier]

16 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

Vince Palamara deserves great respect because he has advanced our understanding

of the case in a crucial way. He staked out territory that had been seriously neglected -- the

role of the Secret Service -- and dug into it as much as humanly possible. He came up with a wealth of fresh information, much of it revealing and incriminating, and he's still at it. He exemplifies Penn Jones's advice (given to me and other researchers), to take a neglected area of the case "and research the hell out of it." I am surprised that anyone could question Palamara's dedication and contribution. But as has long been said, you know a man by the enemies he makes -- in Vince's case, both inside and outside the Secret Service.

OK.
Now, let's be clear : do you believe that some Secret Service agents were involved in a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy ?
Yes, or no ?
Please answer simply and directly.
I say no. What do you say ?

[Joe Bauer]

Monsieur Carlier, 

How is it heroic to irresponsibly stay out drinking in a nightclub well into the predawn just hours before you are to perform some of the most important physical and mental sharpness duties of your job and career and in a city "you know" is one of the most hostile towards your President in the entire nation?

How is it heroic when a seasoned SS agent in the same vehicle you are being shot up in, doesn't make any physical attempt to even try to jump over his seat to throw his body in harm's way to protect his President and others also in the line of fire the second he was aware of this happening?  Did Kellerman feel he was not in good enough physical shape to perform that duty?

If one believes Abraham Bolden, how is it heroic to state you might not protect the President with all your capacity if a threatening situation called for this?

We now know that at least some SS personnel hated JFK for his liberalness towards black Americans. We now know that at least some SS personnel felt disgust toward JFK regards his blatant infidelities. This reality forces you to consider the possibility that not all of JFK's SS security was, without question, blindly and heroically committed to his utmost protection.

And we also now know that the standards of education, work experience, training and psychological and judgement screening ( drinking problems, depression?) required of SS agents back in JFK's time were not as stringent as they are today.

If you check agent William Greer's pre-SS career work experience and personal education bio, and read his WC testimony, you are left to wonder how he ever got into the extremely important SS position he attained.

I'd say all those people who risked their careers and their personal safety searching for the truth regards the JFK event were true heroes.

Writers, researchers, Jim Garrison, Penn Jones, Clint Peoples, Francis Fruge', Dorothy Kilgallen, Mort Sahl and so many others. 

And let us not forget the heroic courage of Jackie Kennedy both during her husband's horrific slaughter just inches from her face and the minutes, hours, days and weeks after when she had to keep herself together for her children and the nation and her late husband's final ceremony

 

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Vince Palamara]

I think little francois had his feelings hurt because no one agreed with him hahahahaha!!