Shirt bunching experiment (SBT)

[Jake Hammond]

I think the experiment shows that the discrepancy between hole in back ( upper in morgue image) and the hole in shirt is perfectly matched when a small fold ( as seen in  the images) is taken in to account. 

[Jake Hammond]

Quote

At the very least you are theorizing that the shirt is bunched up at the top. I can't believe you deny this very obvious point.

 

Yes, in the written section of the original post I explained that a loose shirt will follow the shape of the jacket as it is both looser and more supple, and has no force making it tight on the body ( over and above what the jacket has). I also spoke of my personal experience of pinning people in to jackets they were trying by pushing the pin through shirt as well as outer jacket, which is not intuitive. Croft , even from the less bunched left side shows 1" of fold approximately which translates to 2", the right side was more ( see images taken earlier in the route). 

 My point about not theorising is that the shirt is a known data point, as is the hole in the back ( which matches the shirt) . The images I took explain the discrepancy which at first seems at odds with the route of a bullet into JC and out through the neck. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Jake Hammond

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Jake Hammond said:

 

Thank you for commenting. However, the right image shows a shirt and jacket nice and tight, the difference between the two lines is exactly the difference I have illustrated in the experiment, with conservative lean angles. Have a look at the images i posted at the start again. 

Just as a second point and its a general one.... The important detail that a few people are missing here is that I'm not theorizing, this simple experiment merely confirms the evidence and explains it. 

In your imagination.

You haven't demonstrated anything other than the gullibility of the nutters.

You misrepresented the fit of JFK's clothing and his posture.

You claim that there was a 2 inch gathering of his shirt and jacket in a location occupied by his jacket collar -- a physical impossibility.

This is another in a series of frauds perpetrated by nutter religionists.

[Jake Hammond]

I'm not a lone nutter Cliff, I have weaponized a simple experiment here, nothing more. 

[Cliff Varnell]

20 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

Yes, in the written section of the original post I explained that a loose shirt will follow the shape of the jacket as it is both looser and more supple, and has no force making it tight on the body ( over and above what the jacket has).

The jacket collar rose above the top of the shirt collar and then fell on Houston St.

Since the jacket collar moved independently of the shirt collar, the same is true for the fabric immediately below the collars.

Hammond just makes stuff up.

20 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

 

I also spoke of my personal experience of pinning people in to jackets they were trying by pushing the pin through shirt as well as outer jacket, which is not intuitive. Croft , even from the less bunched left side shows 1" of fold approximately which translates to 2", the right side was more ( see images taken earlier in the route).  

Pure fiction.  The Towner photo shows a much smaller fold.

20 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

 My point about not theorising is that the shirt is a known data point, as is the hole in the back ( which matches the shirt) . The images I took explain the discrepancy which at first seems at odds with the route of a bullet into JC and out through the neck. 

You explain nothing.

This is a fraud.

[Cliff Varnell]

Just now, Jake Hammond said:

I'm not a lone nutter Cliff, I have weaponized a simple experiment here, nothing more. 

Weaponize nothing.  You misrepresent JFK's posture and the fit of his shirt.

You can't demonstrate this on a live body because it's impossible.

 

[Jake Hammond]

I'll do it on a body happily, but then you'll say the age is wrong, or the hair colour is wrong. Define to me what would make you happy and I'll do that. 

[Cliff Varnell]

32 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

I think the experiment shows that the discrepancy between hole in back ( upper in morgue image) and the hole in shirt is perfectly matched when a small fold ( as seen in  the images) is taken in to account. 

You're saying that 2 inches of shirt and 2 inches of jacket bunched up above the top of the back without pushing up on the jacket collar.

Until you demonstrate this you're not telling the truth.

[Cliff Varnell]

2 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

I'll do it on a body happily, but then you'll say the age is wrong, or the hair colour is wrong. Define to me what would make you happy and I'll do that. 

Record how 2 inches of shirt and 2 inches of jacket are elevated entirely above the top of the back without pushing up on the jacket collar.

You can't use your hands.

Record the entire event without edit.

You won't -- it's impossible.

And quit trying to make JFK lean forward -- it's just not true.

[Cliff Varnell]

5 hours ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

JFK used fitted shirts, not a loose-fitting one like you have used. Moreover, his shirts had tails that he would have sat on. So it is highly unlikely the shirt moved any significant distance. Obviously, the suit coat could have moved more than the shirt but the evidence suggests that the  suit coat did not move much either given the measured location of the entry wounds on both fabrics

Hammond and his fellow nutters are trying to re-write history.

[Jake Hammond]

You don't need the shirt and jacket to be 2"  above the  top of the back for damage to the t1 on a man leaning forward with the neck compressed and  driving on a road with a negative incline.  Anyway, the experiemnt doesn't attempt to show that, it simply shows the difference a fold and a lean angle makes. 

 I won't use hand, fine .

video or photo is irrelevant

 i will, you said I wouldn't do this experiment remember. 

 Lean forward ? We have eyes Cliff so not sure who you are trying to convince. 

[Jake Hammond]

3 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Hammond and his fellow nutters are trying to re-write history.

I'm not a nutter Cliff, or insane. I am not rewriting history, the experiement simply suports the known facts. Now can you wait for the follow up experiment please so others can CONTRIBUTE. Your half sentences and aggression is clogging up the topic thread. 

[Cliff Varnell]

2 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

You don't need the shirt and jacket to be 2"  above the  top of the back for damage to the t1 on a man leaning forward with the neck compressed and  driving on a road with a negative incline. 

His neck wasn't suppressed, he wasn't leaning forward, and the road was a 3 degree "negative incline."

You grossly exggerate everything.

2 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

Anyway, the experiemnt doesn't attempt to show that, it simply shows the difference a fold and a lean angle makes. 

Both of which you have grossly exaggerated.

2 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

 I won't use hand, fine .

video or photo is irrelevant

You can't do it -- it isn't possible.  So you rationalize and make stuff up.

2 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

 i will, you said I wouldn't do this experiment remember. 

It's not an experiment -- it's an exercise in misinformation.

You demonstrate nothing with this garbage.

2 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

 Lean forward ? We have eyes Cliff so not sure who you are trying to convince. 

You portray JFK with his head bent down.

Fiction.

[Cliff Varnell]

9 minutes ago, Jake Hammond said:

I'm not a nutter Cliff, or insane. I am not rewriting history, the experiement simply suports the known facts.

 

You claim as "known fact" that the fold in JFK's jacket is 2".  That is a lie.

When I post photos like Altgens on Houston St. or Towner on the corner of Houston and Elm you declare them irrelevant or ignore them.

 JFK was not in the  "compressed neck" posture.  The fold in the jacket was a fraction of an inch.  The jacket collar moved up and down independently of the shirt collar, and so did the fabric below the collars.

Quote

 

Now can you wait for the follow up experiment please so others can CONTRIBUTE. Your half sentences and aggression is clogging up the topic thread. 

This thread is clogged with your lies and misrepresentations.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

The 1.25 inch jacket collar is to the left of the fraction of an inch fabric fold.

Hammond claims the fold is almost as high as the jacket collar, and JFK is looking down at his shoes.

Fiction.