Jeanie Dean Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Reply to DiEugenio comment on Dumbarton Drums There are multiple versions of Dumbarton's Drums both in melody and lyric and all contested. Depending on the singer's (gender) the subject of the song is Johnny or Jeanie. Both renditions are true; therein is the beauty and power of poetry; its capacity to engender many valuable meanings. Wikipedia reports "Thereis a male version, with "Johnnie" changed to "Jeannie" and the last verse omitted, which has been recorded by The Corries. However the original version as collected and recorded by Burns is to a different tune, a brisk march which was recorded by the Glasgow Orpheus Choir. It also has different words which were the basis for the popular song. "Dumbarton's Drums" is the march of The Royal Scots, but this is a quick march, a different tune from the folk song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Something else I was alerted to by a friend of Couteau's: The theme to that Woody Allen piece of frivolity What's New Pussycat? was sung by Tom Jones. The last film that JFK saw was reportedly Tom Jones. If this is true Bob Dylan is not only a student of the JFK case, but of Kennedy also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Dean Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Hello All, Dylan's "Murder Most Foul" lyrics are of course interesting and a powerful stream of codified impressions. After all Dylan is the Shakespeare of the 20th century. or as I like to say "one more cup of coffee for the literati," to allude to his wonderful song. Its not surprising to see Dylan's work allude to other poets. Of course there are few poets, who have written specifically on JFK; Jeanie Dean being one is pretty obscure even to members of this forum. Up until Dylan's trope, the idea of poetry about JFK and th assaination has seemed rather insignifcant or unimportant. Now that we ar looking at poetics, these are insider views on parallel language and themes in Dylan's and Dean's lyrics. Dean's fifteen minute anthem poem "Abortion of the American Dream" in the book The Whole World Stopped, says JFK was sacrificed on the altar of greed. Dylan repeats the sacrifice theme in each stanza of his "Murder Most Foul" There are several common riffs between Dylan's voicing and Dean's poems including Elm street and crossroads, that will be mentioned here. Read on it might be interesting. Forum member Andrews quotes Dylan about the topic crossroads and death: Dealey Plaza, make a left-hand turnI’m going down to the crossroads, gonna flag a rideThe place where faith, hope, and charity died Dylan's word, "died" echoes the premise of Dean's "Abortion of the American Dream" This stanza by Dylan recalls Dean's poem: "Crosshairs of History:"the presidential motorcade turned the corner slowed for the marksmen at the crossroads of idealism and corruption to JFK's inevitable rendezvous with destiny where the whole world stopped and life was never the same. The crossroads is also of course a ubiquitous metaphor for the meeting place for the proverbial deal with the devil, with many more possible interpretations. In the same stanza above, Dylan references "Ellum," street, which seem to echo another poem by Dean: "Tall Lean Lone Man on the Scene," that depicts the turn on Elm Street as a signifying moment in the assassination; the poem is spoken with a repeating, even hypnotic stop-action rhythm: "as the President's limousine turns onto Elm a lone man, tall and lean tall enough to be seen on the scene tall lean lone man steps out as the limousine turns onto Elm the tall lean lone man steps out ..." This poem continues repeating and sustains attention on the pivotal turn on Elm Street, an idea that Dylan recapitulates with his garrulous lyric. Check out Dean's unique book if you like poetry, metaphor, symbol, and research. Or let it remain another marginalized and scoffed at unknown work in this significant inquiry; Ignore it but pay homage to the super stars. Yours, Jeanie Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Here you go Jeanie: https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Jeanie-S-Dean/dp/0615911161 168 pages of poems and its blurbed by Mike Parenti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) Good catch, the Elm Street/Deep Ellum connection. "Deep Ellum Blues" is a traditional African-American folk song that Dylan has performed, and has more frequently been performed by the Grateful Dead. Deep Ellum itself was a storied African-American neighborhood in Dallas through the mid-19th to mid-20th centuries, and was the place a man went for a dangerous good time. That's why you have to "keep your money in your shoe." [wiki:] After independence from the Mexican-American War, Texas became a part of the United States in 1845. Four years later, Dallas was founded after the Civil War. After the 1850s’ slave liberation in Texas, many slaves from Texas and nearby states built their houses and cropped their land in the future Deep Ellum, which was one of the largest African-American communities.[1] This community holds the most history in the Dallas area. When you go down to Deep EllumKeep your money in your shoesWhen you're down in Deep EllumGives you Deep Ellum blues Hey pretty mamaYour daddy's got them Deep Ellum bluesTell your brothers and your sistersDaddy's got them Deep Ellum blues Well I went down to Deep EllumOn a one way trackWell they took my money boysAnd they never give it back Hey pretty mamaYour daddy's got them Deep Ellum bluesTell your brothers and your sistersYour daddy's got them Deep Ellum blues Edited April 2, 2020 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Dean Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Great references by everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Dean Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Speaking of Dylan's singing voice for his rendition of Murder Most Foul, he used a very righteous and solemn baritone, and not his Topo Giggio falsetto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jeanie Dean said: Speaking of Dylan's singing voice for his rendition of Murder Most Foul, he used a very righteous and solemn baritone, and not his Topo Giggio falsetto. He's been an evocative, soulful baritone for the last 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Dean Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Thanks Jim for the link to my book and Michael Parenti's comment. He and I have had excellent conversations about the instruments of Empire. Our research was in parallel. In my unpublished book Poems of the Washerwoman, she scrubs away 400 years of Britaish veneer to reveal the instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Dean Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Thanks Jim for the link to my book and Michael Parenti's comment. He and I have had excellent conversations about the instruments of Empire. Our research was in parallel. In my unpublished book Poems of the Washerwoman, she scrubs away 400 years of British veneer to reveal the instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Dean Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Oh yes Dylan's voice can be great. I wonder why he sings falsetto so much. 2 years ago i saw him from row 2 and most of the concert was falsetto. grrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Dean Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 You might like this rewrite of the traditional Irish ballad Spancil Hill (1870) by Irish Immigrant Michael Considine who longs for home. it's an irish tradition to rewrite ballads. Mine is called Sad Grassy Knoll. I pasted Shane McGowan's fast punk version. I am looking for someone to sing my version. Just imagine my words to McGowan's singing. Sad Grassy Knoll Last night as I was thinking of a sad day the world once knew Me mind been bent on wondering to Dallas, Texas I flew I went there sadly seeking truth wanting all to know Where freedom fell on Elm Street by the sad Grassy Knoll It be November twenty-two, nineteen sixty-three The nation came to greet President John Kennedy The black the white the left and right to see and hear their hero Down on Dealey Plaza just past the Grassy Knoll Waving hello, shaking his hand each wanted to be so near The smiling leader inspired all to live without fear They saw his vision for peace, a good and simple goal Shot at noon by snipers under the Grassy Knoll I went to see the people, to hear what they would say Old ones cried conspiracy, not one lone shooter that day A script, played to deceive, but the young ones just didn’t know Cynics, called it theory, those killers on the Knoll If John Kennedy lived would we have a peace His “Open society” with justice for all increased Not greed not hate nor traitors in a land that lost its soul No one would know the sorrow of the sad Grassy Knoll * Kennedy spoke of “OPEN SOCIETY” often; it was changed to ”Great Society by L.B. Johnson’s staff.Jeanie Dean 2013 Sean McGowan Spancill Hill gritty version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanie Dean Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 The multiple references to Wolfman Jack are not to be overlooked as repetition is a poetic pointer. "Wolfman" is potentially significant in light of Robert Wheeler's comment that the secret service code-name for Poppy George Bush Sr. is "Timber Wolf." The name pair of "Wolf" and "Jack" might also be significant. Does Dylan know that obscure bit of history about George Bush? Who knows? My poem "Tall Lean Lone Man on the Scene" in the book, The Whole World Stopped observes a similar mystery man in Dealey Plaza that day Another possibility is Dylan heard the actual "Wolfman Jack playing nationwide a 50,000 watt radio elegy for JFK on his midnight show from radio XERB during some 36 hours after JFK's assassination. David Andrews points out, Dylan spent four days after the assassination in a New York apartment like everyone listening to the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 On 4/2/2020 at 5:04 PM, David Andrews said: Good catch, the Elm Street/Deep Ellum connection. "Deep Ellum Blues" is a traditional African-American folk song that Dylan has performed, and has more frequently been performed by the Grateful Dead. Deep Ellum itself was a storied African-American neighborhood in Dallas through the mid-19th to mid-20th centuries, and was the place a man went for a dangerous good time. That's why you have to "keep your money in your shoe." [wiki:] After independence from the Mexican-American War, Texas became a part of the United States in 1845. Four years later, Dallas was founded after the Civil War. After the 1850s’ slave liberation in Texas, many slaves from Texas and nearby states built their houses and cropped their land in the future Deep Ellum, which was one of the largest African-American communities.[1] This community holds the most history in the Dallas area. When you go down to Deep EllumKeep your money in your shoesWhen you're down in Deep EllumGives you Deep Ellum blues Hey pretty mamaYour daddy's got them Deep Ellum bluesTell your brothers and your sistersDaddy's got them Deep Ellum blues Well I went down to Deep EllumOn a one way trackWell they took my money boysAnd they never give it back Hey pretty mamaYour daddy's got them Deep Ellum bluesTell your brothers and your sistersYour daddy's got them Deep Ellum blues Great post, David. I've always loved Jerry Garcia's renditions of Deep Ellum Blues-- including the live (DAT) recording in '87 of the Jerry Garcia Acoustic Band. (Incidentally, I think the best Jerry Garcia old timey acoustic album ever was the Shady Grove album he recorded with David Grisman shortly before his untimely death.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 On 4/1/2020 at 8:26 PM, Ron Bulman said: Hi Sandy. I know you posted a while back about some health problems. Nice to see you on here, I've always enjoyed your posts and found them informative. As an aside not meant to distract from the thread topic, "Tarleton's Quarter" became a rallying cry in the Revolutionary War in South Carolina as a result of Tarleton's no quarter. Kind of like Remember the Alamo. The Patriots often gave no quarter afterwards. Inspiring them to victory at Kings Mountain. Which I believe it was Ben Franklin who thought it was the final decisive victory of the revolution. The Red Coat's left shortly after. I just read about this recently myself. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/tarleton-gives-quarter-in-south-carolina Hi Ron, Thanks for the "no quarter" trivia/history lesson and for your kind words. I enjoy also your posts and those of others here on the forum. It's nice to come here and see what people you've come to know and respect (or disrespect, as the case may be LOL) have to say. I've learned a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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