I love Prayerman.....but why is he there?

[David Josephs]

17 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Sean, Check out the Mexico City thread.  David has links on his post on page one which links to his research @ KennedysandKing

Keep you busy for quite some time!

Thanks Pete... i find it so heartwarming when those I’ve not even spoken to, have read my stuff.... and yeah, lots of detail.. thousands of pages of evidence to hide that he wasn’t there, and never went...

20 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:

Where can I find David Joseph’s bus trip theory? Not read it.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-evidence-is-the-conspiracy-index
 

they also posted my CAPA presentation on the rifle...   https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-evidence-is-the-conspiracy-the-carbine-on-the-6th-floor

As to Prayerman.... As u know I’ve posted a few images suggesting it was Oswald.  People see shots from the front and are told, NO.

Is it really that much a stretch to deny ANYONE was there, especially since it was Oswald firing from the 6th floor? 

And when/if confronted, make it impossible like Odio... he was on a bus so it couldn’t be Oswald... Great logic.

Read Piper carefully... he lies thru his entire testimony... and was on the first floor... and saw Shelley/Lovelady who also aren’t all that truthful...

If that’s not him...it’s a great impression.  When again was Shelley out with Oswald “in front”?

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by David Josephs

[John Iacoletti]

On 4/23/2020 at 8:28 AM, Bart Kamp said:

Miss HINE. Yes, sir: I was alone until the lights all went out and the phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our office.

What window is she talking about?  This one?  Could she really see the limo turning the corner?
 

[Guest]

Yes, she could see it approach and turn but not in great detail. It had to turn or it would have gone past below her.

[Pete Mellor]

6 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Thanks Pete... i find it so heartwarming when those I’ve not even spoken to, have read my stuff.... and yeah, lots of detail.. thousands of pages of evidence to hide that he wasn’t there, and never went...

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-evidence-is-the-conspiracy-index
 

they also posted my CAPA presentation on the rifle...   https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-evidence-is-the-conspiracy-the-carbine-on-the-6th-floor

No problem D.J.  It's why I love this Forum, so many great researchers here.  I know this isn't the thread, but on the subject of M.C.  I have been working with John Kowalski doing research on Albert Osborne in the U.K. which has got me into looking at the supposed bus trip.  Do you know of anyone making contact (other than FBI) with those fellow travellers i.e.Mumford, Winston or McFarlands?  Mumford i.d. an Oswald to Warren, but they couldn't sync which bus they were on!!

I spoke with Greg Parker on FB & he said Mumford & Winston would never speak, he intimated they were spooky, also he intimated that McFarland's work at University of Mississippi was of a secret nature.  Have you covered anything on these lines?

 

 

 

 

[David Josephs]

2 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

No problem D.J.  It's why I love this Forum, so many great researchers here.  I know this isn't the thread, but on the subject of M.C.  I have been working with John Kowalski doing research on Albert Osborne in the U.K. which has got me into looking at the supposed bus trip.  Do you know of anyone making contact (other than FBI) with those fellow travellers i.e.Mumford, Winston or McFarlands?  Mumford i.d. an Oswald to Warren, but they couldn't sync which bus they were on!!

I spoke with Greg Parker on FB & he said Mumford & Winston would never speak, he intimated they were spooky, also he intimated that McFarland's work at University of Mississippi was of a secret nature.  Have you covered anything on these lines?

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/mumford.htm

Well, we do have Mumford's testimony... Nothing I've seen from Pat Winston (and Greg is also in Australia)....

We do have the McFarland affidavit....  but as you said... all FBI while the FBI was covering for the FBI and Oswald being linked.
There is a Flecha Rojas bus manifest which leaves Monterrey for Mexico City after arriving from Nuevo Laredo...  The Aussie girls had gotten off in Monterrey and it is claimed they took the same bus as Oswald/Bowen/McFarland.  The manifest only lists passengers embarking from Monterrey...

This is both the handwritten and typed out version of that manifest...

Mr. BALL. Now, you got on the bus at Monterrey on the evening of September 26 at 7:30 p.m., you just told me?
Miss MUMFORD. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And what was the company that operated that bus, do you know?
Miss MUMFORD. That was also Transporter del Norte.

 

Which busline again?     I am convinced that like BLEDSOE and WHALEY, these people were given what was needed to be said...  

  

 

Except BOWEN/OSBORNE wasn't playing along...  did you know that BOWEN does not appear in the text of the WCR... only Osborne, 
and they proceed to tell us that his denial of sitting next to Oswald "cannot be credited".

 

John McFarland - obituary

John McFarland was a surgeon, sailor and bus mate of Lee Harvey Oswald just before JFK’s killing

John McFarland 

6:35PM GMT 21 Nov 2013

John McFarland , who has died aged 83, was a respected surgeon in Liverpool; outside his professional life he was an adventurous sailor, and he also once travelled across America on a Greyhound bus in the company of President Kennedy’s assassin Lee Harvey Oswald.

McFarland was doing research at the University of Mississippi when, in September 1963 (two months before the assassination), he and his young wife, Meryl, boarded a bus at Jackson, Mississippi, bound for Mexico City.

As they later testified to the Warren Commission, they first saw Oswald on September 26 when they changed buses at Houston, Texas. Oswald told them that he had come from New Orleans, where he was secretary of the local branch of the Fair Play for Cuba Organisation, and that he was on his way to Cuba in the hope of meeting President Castro — he was going via Mexico City because it was illegal to travel to Cuba from the United States.

Oswald, they said, had been wearing “ordinary slacks and, a more definite recollection, a sort of zipper jerkin”. After Kennedy’s death the McFarlands had recognised him as their fellow passenger from his pictures in the newspapers. During McFarland’s later career as a surgeon in Liverpool, he would occasionally be contacted by representatives of the FBI investigating aspects of the assassination.

The eldest of three sons of the Professor of Orthopaedics at Liverpool University, John Bryan McFarland was born on September 17 1930, and educated at Trearddur House prep school in Anglesey (where the family had a holiday home) and then Shrewsbury. He read Medicine at Liverpool University, qualifying in 1954. After house jobs in his home city and in Edinburgh, he did National Service (1955-57) with the RAMC, mainly in Kenya at the time of the Mau Mau uprisings.

 

After his spell in America, McFarland returned to Liverpool. He was appointed consultant surgeon, senior lecturer in the Department of Surgery at the University of Liverpool, and to an NHS post at the David Lewis Northern Hospital. He then practised at the Royal Southern Hospital (until it closed in 1978) and the new Royal Liverpool Hospital. As well as developing an interest in gastrointestinal surgery, he became recognised for his gifts as a clinical researcher, and he published regularly throughout his career.

When the Royal Liverpool opened in 1978, McFarland helped to recruit artists to create stimulating murals inside the building — and was displeased to learn during his retirement that these had been destroyed as part of the refurbishment to make the hospital “fit for purpose” in the 21st century.

Since his father had died in his early sixties, partly through overwork, McFarland resolved to retire while he could still enjoy life. Aged 61 he threw a leaving party at the Royal Liverpool, and the next morning he left Britain, sailing down the Mersey into the Irish Sea in his Vancouver 32 (his passion for sailing had been nurtured during family holidays in Anglesey).

For the next four years he sailed the Mediterranean, sometimes in the company of his son, Jonathan, before deciding to settle at Soller in Majorca, where he was based for the rest of his life.

For several years he spent winters in India, working as a doctor at a small hospital run by nuns in Cochin in the state of Kerala, where many of the patients were fishermen and their families.

John McFarland’s wife Meryl , whom he married in 1962, was the daughter of Andrew Mckie Reid, an eminent Liverpool ophthalmologist. She died in 2000; their son survives him.

John McFarland, born September 17 1930, died October 5 2013

[Pete Mellor]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/mumford.htm

Well, we do have Mumford's testimony... Nothing I've seen from Pat Winston (and Greg is also in Australia)....

We do have the McFarland affidavit....  but as you said... all FBI while the FBI was covering for the FBI and Oswald being linked.
There is a Flecha Rojas bus manifest which leaves Monterrey for Mexico City after arriving from Nuevo Laredo...  The Aussie girls had gotten off in Monterrey and it is claimed they took the same bus as Oswald/Bowen/McFarland.  The manifest only lists passengers embarking from Monterrey...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am convinced that like BLEDSOE and WHALEY, these people were given what was needed to be said.

I think so too, in fact it seems to me that Albert Osborne was the only one talking straight.  & why those reports quoting Bowen, when the Feds knew that was the alias of Osborne?  Add Phillips & Goodpasture in M.C. to the mix & we have a big bowl of spaghetti!   I already had the McFarland obit, but cheers!

[David Josephs]

[Sean Coleman]

On 4/24/2020 at 1:38 PM, Larry Hancock said:

The answer to that probably lies in the fact that as a "patsy", Oswald only had to be framed / associated with the shooting - as Sandy describes above.  The fact that he was not "visibly" on the sixth floor or doing anything which would have made him really obvious as the shooter on the sixth floor suggests that he may well have been under some minor level of manipulation but was not knowingly involved in the attack - no matter what else he might have done related to a rifle being in the building.  The fact that his behavior afterwards is so seemingly random also suggests that he was not under any degree of real control that day.

One of the real problems for all of us is Monday morning quarterbacking the plan with Oswald as the key element - when of course Oswald as the lone nut single shooter getting all the attention in regard to the assassination is an artifact of the official story line to suppress an investigation of conspiracy, not necessarily of the actual conspiracy plan.

Larry,

Have recently finished SWHT and thrilled to have you respond. What a riveting read, I can’t imagine the research hours needed to complete such an in depth book, definitely  for parties wishing to delve deeper into the mire! Pictures and diagrams in research books are always a bonus, the portrait pics in SWHT really let you put a face to a name. Eugenia Martinez’ eyes are saying “ I...will...keel...you...” and any pic of Silvia Odio puts a shine on my day.

So......if Oswald is Prayerman, he is on a loose leash that day (if on a leash at all?) and in the close vicinity of the TSBD. But maybe that doesn’t matter either because the rifle is in his name and thru association he will picked up regardless. So he could be allowed to be anywhere really?

He’s gonna get arrested anyway, then-oops! He’s dead, “we can’t find anyone else....cases closed.”

Sound ok?

[Sean Coleman]

Typos sorry - Eugenio & case closed

[Larry Hancock]

Thanks Sean, I know SWHT is a slog....but then that's true of  most of what I write...grin.   I certainly think the photos help, Rex was great to work with us to put so many photos into the Wheaton Leads research paper.

I have come to picture Oswald only being at most very loosely maneuvered by the time he gets back to Dallas.  With the media legend he established in New Orleans and his time in Russia he was going to be a suspect if either he or a rifle linked to him was anywhere near the scene of the shooting - he said as much himself while in custody.  Talk about "usual suspects". 

Certainly there may have been plans to further frame him after the fact - and likely he was supposed to meet someone at the theater but we don't know the details on that.  It was Friday, he was on a time card, he could have clocked out early anyway (not exactly an obsessive worker).  And he had even applied for at least one job after taking work at the TSBD.

Not to say that he was not "circulating" in Dallas but in reality it was very low profile - Hosty has him meeting with subversives.  Nothing like his visibility in New Orleans.  Which was desirable, you don't want him picked up in advance or possibly sequestered as a threat during the visit...which could have happened.

I'd say Oswald was just being Oswald that day, playing cool (what, is something special going on today?), not out in front with the crowd at the street (how pedestrian) but not doing anything special to implicate himself.  And there was always the risk of actually giving him orders...as his buddy Delgado said, one sure way to get him not to do something was to order him to do it.  Even if he had been told to do something special, well he probably would have done his own thing.

 

[Ron Bulman]

7 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Thanks Sean, I know SWHT is a slog....but then that's true of  most of what I write...grin.   I certainly think the photos help, Rex was great to work with us to put so many photos into the Wheaton Leads research paper.

I have come to picture Oswald only being at most very loosely maneuvered by the time he gets back to Dallas.  With the media legend he established in New Orleans and his time in Russia he was going to be a suspect if either he or a rifle linked to him was anywhere near the scene of the shooting - he said as much himself while in custody.  Talk about "usual suspects". 

Certainly there may have been plans to further frame him after the fact - and likely he was supposed to meet someone at the theater but we don't know the details on that.  It was Friday, he was on a time card, he could have clocked out early anyway (not exactly an obsessive worker).  And he had even applied for at least one job after taking work at the TSBD.

Not to say that he was not "circulating" in Dallas but in reality it was very low profile - Hosty has him meeting with subversives.  Nothing like his visibility in New Orleans.  Which was desirable, you don't want him picked up in advance or possibly sequestered as a threat during the visit...which could have happened.

I'd say Oswald was just being Oswald that day, playing cool (what, is something special going on today?), not out in front with the crowd at the street (how pedestrian) but not doing anything special to implicate himself.  And there was always the risk of actually giving him orders...as his buddy Delgado said, one sure way to get him not to do something was to order him to do it.  Even if he had been told to do something special, well he probably would have done his own thing.

 

So he didn't drift out front, with his boss Shelly, as he said?

Edited April 26, 2020 by Ron Bulman

[Larry Hancock]

To me it appears that Oswald drifted all over the place during and after lunch....I don't at all buy the official story of his movements nor do I see any sign he was actually worried about being convicted of shooting the president.  As far as I can tell he acted in something of an unpredictable manner ....one of the reasons he could not be allowed to keep on talking and certainly not go into a trial.

Did he drift out front....very possibly....its all pretty much an open question to me other than the fact that he was not on the sixth floor firing a rifle at the president.

[Eddy Bainbridge]

8 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

 

Did he drift out front....very possibly....its all pretty much an open question to me other than the fact that he was not on the sixth floor firing a rifle at the president.

I am interested that you have a firm view where Oswald was not located but not a firm you where he was. Do you beleive the evidence points to his presence on lower floors? Or are you persuaded he wasn't shooting? Or both?

I am pretty sure there were shots from the TSBD. The only slightly plausible stories of other gunmen I have read are Mac Wallace or Loy factor plus unclear evidence of a man on the stairs and a crew laying a floor.

[Sean Coleman]

On 4/25/2020 at 6:40 AM, David Josephs said:

David,

K&K is a testament to tireless investigation and have used it many times to further my understanding as I’m sure thousands of others have worldwide.

When asking for directions to your M.C. theory I thought an E.forum thread was being recommended and no doubt came across as an JFK Assassinoobie who’s seen Orville Stone’s JFK three times and nearly finished Crossfire..d’oh!

Joking aside, I’ve never really got my head round the M.C. episode, there’s a lot of jiggery pokery and conflicting witness testimony. Sometimes you need someone else’s theory to buy into to smooth the path to enlightenment - as Larry’s has helped solve my Prayerman problem. I’ve put that one to bed now! I look forward to studying your version of events.

....gotta finish Crossfire first tho.....

[Larry Hancock]

Eddy,  I guess I need to be more clear....I have seen nothing that is solid enough to give me an opinion on where Oswald was during the less than a minute of the shooting.  I do not believe he was on the Sixth floor, beyond that I suspect he was "circulating" during the last twenty or so minutes before...in the first floor lunchroom,  getting a soda afterwards on the second, back down in the lobby area, very possibly looking out the front door....  I would love to see something totally definitive but those things really don't trouble me any more - my focus is the conspiracy,  which I take as a given. Power to those trying to resolve the details at this late date but I've watched that struggle for so long - I'm still interested but I've managed to generally break away from being obsessive about it....my response on this tread was really intended to be focused the issue of control over Oswald.