The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Jeff Carter]

There will not be a “no-fly zone” or similar direct NATO involvement in Ukraine. It’s not a matter of spineless politicians, it is rather the cold reality that a direct conflict will spiral rapidly up the escalation ladder into a full nuclear exchange. The leadership at the Pentagon has made this reality very clear and they will not countenance such a move. It is distressing that Forum members appear not aware of this, or are comfortable advocating the ultimate disaster for the human race at this time.

If it makes you feel better - what has become clear is that NATO has assembled a very impressive observation network capable of geo-location across the region, and resulting real-time information is continuously available to Ukraine’s Armed forces. So NATO is providing weaponry and more importantly advising their proxies with extremely accurate information on where to shoot. This is in support of the war plan: goad Russia’s armed forces into Ukraine and create a quagmire. This plan will not change due to revelations of atrocities real or imagined. Turning Ukraine into an active protracted war-zone was and is itself an atrocity. The political diplomatic off-ramp was the UNSC endorsed Minsk process but the Ukraine government refused to abide by it and its NATO partners refused to use their considerable leverage to insist on it.  What has also become clear now, however, is that there was no political solution because the Maidan events effectively triggered a civil war in Ukraine and the last eight years were used to prepare for the full realization of this war. Some form of partition will be the likely result if and when the fighting is stopped.

[Guest]

On 4/5/2022 at 3:27 AM, Benjamin Cole said:

Chris-

1. My guess is Russian leaders means Putin and he wants to assemble a Rus empire. 

2. Unfortunately, Nato-Biden-Western powers generally carry water for multinationals.

Multinationals have the money, and the stakes, and hired expertise, in foreign-military-trade issues.

Firstly, globalists want stability and access. A quick win in Ukraine for Putin was fine by the globalist community, as long as there was no expropriations or access to markets was cut off.  We see globalists work with Putin, especially work with the CCP/Beijing. 

Biden all but invited Putin into Ukraine, and also invited Zelensky out. What does that tell you about Biden?  

Now, the Ukraine picture has become muddied, thanks to Ukrainian resistance.

The Biden-Nato-Western powers are now bumbling, on their back foots, without real ideas.

Poland seems to be reacting as a nation, and as a people, not as a representative of multinationals. 

 

 

 

 

1. Here is the thing, Putin sits at the top of a dominance hierarchy. He is the most dominant but, if he doesn't have the support of those immediately beneath him, he risks a coup. The same way if he is not pleasing Russia's wealthy elites he may be deposed. Like all super powers, he needs to maintain the support of the masses, his subjects. Western media is playing out stories that Putin's own military are hiding disappointing news from him, trying to make him look more isolated. Can you imagine the cost of lying? Did it work out well for those who lied to Stalin or Kruschev?

If we break down the idea that Putin wants to assemble a Russian empire? How probable is it? With what we know of the Russian military strength in this moment, how are they going to do it? They can't. Its nice to have the power of Alexander The Great, The Romans, The British or American Empire's but, this isn't anything other than a wet dream for Russia right now. Frankly, IMHO it deflects from the reasons that Putin did invade the Ukraine. 

2. They certainly do. The deep question might be; to what extent in this crisis? They're playing chess and monopoly. There is another deep question; to what extent are the globalists working with Putin? What is the end goal? We're led to believe it's the same old good vs evil narrative that we subscribe to so easily, yet to anyone with an interest in geopolitics, it's clearly much more nuanced. 

Zelensky was a bad guy in British press some years ago, now he is a modern saint. I can't take BIden for anything other than a chap that is a breath away from full time care. The guys is reading from prompt cards. Who is the architect of the cards? What do they desire? 

I see a few possibilities here and some are quite horrific:
- The powers that be luring European people into WW3 with propaganda, half truths and agitation. 
- The people who usually profit from wars wanting a contained conflict that nobody winds for a long time, like a Vietnam or Afghan, which maximises profits. 
- Russia / China both desire full blow technocracy and are against the version the US and the West have planned for the future, as it still marginalises them and leaves them as second fiddle. 

In WW2, America did a great job of hiding behind a non-aggression pact whilst the allies and axis depleted themselves, and at the death the US came in and enjoyed the spoils of war. Those elites profited from the weapons and oil used by both sides. Is China now sat there in the same position as the USA? If this becomes a big conflict, they just might do. 

It's unclear. 





 

[W. Niederhut]

Chris,

     Putin has, apparently, surrounded himself with a hierarchy of FSB-aligned sycophants during the past twenty years.

     See, for example, Putin's People, by your fellow Brit, Catherine Belton.*

      As for Jeff Carter's latest post, I'm shocked, shocked to hear that Jeff is still trying to blame NATO for Putin's truly horrific decision to invade Ukraine and commit war crimes on a grand scale.

      At least Jeff isn't repeating Ben's daily memes about NATO and Biden weakly dithering, etc., etc., etc.

      As a footnote, Jeff has repeatedly refused to answer my question about whether he shares Putin's openly expressed contempt for liberal democracy.

*  https://www.amazon.com/Putins-People-Took-Back-Russia/dp/B083QLZ4QZ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3PD2U07NXSU3S&keywords=putin's+people+by+catherine+belton&qid=1649282968&sprefix=Putin's+people%2Caps%2C440&sr=8-1

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

1. Here is the thing, Putin sits at the top of a dominance hierarchy. He is the most dominant but, if he doesn't have the support of those immediately beneath him, he risks a coup. The same way if he is not pleasing Russia's wealthy elites he may be deposed. Like all super powers, he needs to maintain the support of the masses, his subjects. Western media is playing out stories that Putin's own military are hiding disappointing news from him, trying to make him look more isolated. Can you imagine the cost of lying? Did it work out well for those who lied to Stalin or Kruschev?

If we break down the idea that Putin wants to assemble a Russian empire? How probable is it? With what we know of the Russian military strength in this moment, how are they going to do it? They can't. Its nice to have the power of Alexander The Great, The Romans, The British or American Empire's but, this isn't anything other than a wet dream for Russia right now. Frankly, IMHO it deflects from the reasons that Putin did invade the Ukraine. 

2. They certainly do. The deep question might be; to what extent in this crisis? They're playing chess and monopoly. There is another deep question; to what extent are the globalists working with Putin? What is the end goal? We're led to believe it's the same old good vs evil narrative that we subscribe to so easily, yet to anyone with an interest in geopolitics, it's clearly much more nuanced. 

Zelensky was a bad guy in British press some years ago, now he is a modern saint. I can't take BIden for anything other than a chap that is a breath away from full time care. The guys is reading from prompt cards. Who is the architect of the cards? What do they desire? 

I see a few possibilities here and some are quite horrific:
- The powers that be luring European people into WW3 with propaganda, half truths and agitation. 
- The people who usually profit from wars wanting a contained conflict that nobody winds for a long time, like a Vietnam or Afghan, which maximises profits. 
- Russia / China both desire full blow technocracy and are against the version the US and the West have planned for the future, as it still marginalises them and leaves them as second fiddle. 

In WW2, America did a great job of hiding behind a non-aggression pact whilst the allies and axis depleted themselves, and at the death the US came in and enjoyed the spoils of war. Those elites profited from the weapons and oil used by both sides. Is China now sat there in the same position as the USA? If this becomes a big conflict, they just might do. 

It's unclear. 





 

Chris-

Verily, I cannot say I have scaled the Summit of Truth, and will reveal to you now what I know. 

We may disagree on Putin and the oligarchs. 

In the West, we expect billionaires to have lots of clout, as money buys access, influence and talent. 

(The billionaire class loves ID politics and tensions, a great way for class tensions to be swept under the rug). 

But in Russia, the billionaires (called oligarchs) are much less powerful and influential, much more creatures of the state. Putin has shown he can throw an oligarch into prison for 10 years on tax charges. When did a US billionaire ever go to prison at all, let alone on tax charges?  

At any rate, the Ukraine situation now is a daily catastrophe, and we can only hope what has happened in Russian occupied territories is not a reprise of Bucha x 100. It may be unbearable to learn about. 

Biden looks feeble, dithering, uncertain. Biden all but invited Putin into Ukraine and then invited Zelensky out. Now, Biden talks about tougher sanctions on Russia. I guess we had pansy sanctions in place hitherto. 

The Poles stand as giants. They have accepted millions of refugees with good cheer and solidarity. They have advocated forceful interdiction in Ukraine to save lives, even though they are on the front lines. 

The Biden White House looks like confused midgets. 

Andrzej Duda is the president of Poland. Unfortunately, we cannot install him in the White House. 

[Douglas Caddy]

70% of Americans view Russia as the enemy.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3260961-70-percent-of-americans-view-russia-as-their-enemy-survey/?email=effd2ff49e4b87287658acfc4bca4ee7116d6561&emaila=6c10519cee974e18c8467735235a7066&emailb=fbdd9bc7a601799485f96e2eebd1714b5dd292492390d89fdfb97eb7fdf74037&ut

Edited April 7, 2022 by Douglas Caddy

[Benjamin Cole]

9 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

70% of Americans view Russia as the enemy.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3260961-70-percent-of-americans-view-russia-as-their-enemy-survey/?email=effd2ff49e4b87287658acfc4bca4ee7116d6561&emaila=6c10519cee974e18c8467735235a7066&emailb=fbdd9bc7a601799485f96e2eebd1714b5dd292492390d89fdfb97eb7fdf74037&ut

Putin is the enemy, not the Russian people. Xi is the enemy, not the Chinese people. 

[W. Niederhut]

Interesting lecture on Ukrainian history from the Middle Ages to the present.

 

[Bob Ness]

8 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

There will not be a “no-fly zone” or similar direct NATO involvement in Ukraine. It’s not a matter of spineless politicians, it is rather the cold reality that a direct conflict will spiral rapidly up the escalation ladder into a full nuclear exchange. The leadership at the Pentagon has made this reality very clear and they will not countenance such a move. It is distressing that Forum members appear not aware of this, or are comfortable advocating the ultimate disaster for the human race at this time.

If it makes you feel better - what has become clear is that NATO has assembled a very impressive observation network capable of geo-location across the region, and resulting real-time information is continuously available to Ukraine’s Armed forces. So NATO is providing weaponry and more importantly advising their proxies with extremely accurate information on where to shoot. This is in support of the war plan: goad Russia’s armed forces into Ukraine and create a quagmire. This plan will not change due to revelations of atrocities real or imagined. Turning Ukraine into an active protracted war-zone was and is itself an atrocity. The political diplomatic off-ramp was the UNSC endorsed Minsk process but the Ukraine government refused to abide by it and its NATO partners refused to use their considerable leverage to insist on it.  What has also become clear now, however, is that there was no political solution because the Maidan events effectively triggered a civil war in Ukraine and the last eight years were used to prepare for the full realization of this war. Some form of partition will be the likely result if and when the fighting is stopped.

Thanks Vlad. Really appreciate your clueless input. Drop by anytime to advise us on any new propaganda you can regurgitate.

You gotta be thrilled by the dead Nasi's in the streets huh? Get those Ustashi toddlers right?

[Benjamin Cole]

‘The new Auschwitz’: Russians accused of burning bodies to hide Mariupol atrocities

Officials say mobile crematoria and heavy machinery being brought into city to remove thousands of dead, rubble, as mayor claims stark parallel with infamous Holocaust death camp

By AGENCIES and TOI STAFF

Russia has turned the city of Mariupol into a poopoo-style death camp, burning bodies and blocking humanitarian convoys to hide evidence of mass killings and other atrocities there, Ukrainian officials said Wednesday.

Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boichenko said more than 5,000 civilians — including at least 210 children — had been killed during weeks of Russian bombardment and street fighting in the southern Ukrainian city, which has been held under a devastating siege. He said Russian forces bombed hospitals, including one where 50 people burned to death.

---30---

Biden proposes tougher economic sanctions on Russia. Mariupol may looks like Bucha x100. 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Overcoming early rejection in his life  path in becoming a Canadian  exchange student to the Soviet Union . Jeff has overcompensated and now  fathoms himself as the forum Russian Putin expert confidently assuring  us he was the man inside Putin's head and under no circumstances would Putin invade Ukraine. I knew the next season's drama would be victim Putin struggle with oppressive Nato that left him no choice but to coldly and  brutally demolish any structure or human being standing on Ukraine's surface.

I'll often defer to intelligent people who have read voluminously about a given topic and ask questions to get a firm understanding of their take. I still do, but I've revised my outlook here on this forum, that being the most knowledgeable means absolutely nothing if the initial aim aim is just confirmation of existing beliefs and theories.

W:At least Jeff isn't repeating Ben's daily memes about NATO and Biden weakly dithering, etc., etc., etc.

Isn't that the truth?, at least Jeff's writing style is concise, and fun to read, even if I may not agree. Ben style of writing is is so repetitive and boring. For the next months on end we'll continue to hear that Biden and dithering , flat footed, when granted he's following  a rather boring Nato institutionalist path against direct intervention, it nonetheless reflects the majority thought as it is now. Ben as a typical member of a conspiracy forum can take the most moderate milquetoast political decisions and make them into hyphenated conspiracy notions.This is about as conspiratorial as a democracy reflecting the will of it's people and their elected representatives fear of not being re elected.Just as the majority want to seriously prosecute Trump for his crimes including 1/6 insurrection and it's leaders and foot soldiers. Ben hyphenated the opposition to Trump as the "Government Deep state-NSS", when in reality it reflected a solid majority who want criminals to be prosecuted. Just as now Ben will hyphenate this to death saying it Globalist Biden  path. In reality, this is controlled by governments. No corporations initially wanted to be involved in this, and  no corporations who are part of this are going to back out. As long as there's a politic fervor,their hands are tied. They can't bear the consequences of how it will look. Realizing this true relationship would actually be empowering but that entails too much future responsibility and no one really wants that.  

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

23 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Overcoming early rejection in his life  path in becoming a Canadian  exchange student to the Soviet Union . Jeff has overcompensated and now  fathoms himself as the forum Russian Putin expert confidently assuring  us he was the man inside Putin's head and under no circumstances would Putin invade Ukraine. I knew the next season's drama would be victim Putin struggle with oppressive Nato that left him no choice but to coldly and  brutally demolish any structure or human being standing on Ukraine's surface.

I'll often defer to intelligent people who have read voluminously about a given topic and ask questions to get a firm understanding of their take. I still do, but I've revised my outlook here on this forum, that being the most knowledgeable means absolutely nothing if the initial aim aim is just confirmation of existing beliefs and theories.

W:At least Jeff isn't repeating Ben's daily memes about NATO and Biden weakly dithering, etc., etc., etc.

Isn't that the truth?, at least Jeff's writing style is concise, and fun to read, even if I may not agree. Ben style of writing is is so repetitive and boring. For the next months on end we'll continue to hear that Biden and dithering , flat footed, when granted he's following  a rather boring Nato institutionalist path against direct intervention, it nonetheless reflects the majority thought as it is now. Ben as a typical member of a conspiracy forum can take the most moderate milquetoast political decisions and make them into hyphenated conspiracy notions.This is about as conspiratorial as a democracy reflecting the will of it's people and their elected representatives fear of not being re elected.Just as the majority want to seriously prosecute Trump for his crimes including 1/6 insurrection and it's leaders and foot soldiers. Ben hyphenated the opposition to Trump as the "Government Deep state-NSS", when in reality it reflected a solid majority who want criminals to be prosecuted. Just as now Ben will hyphenate this to death saying it Globalist Biden  path. In reality, this is controlled by governments. No corporations initially wanted to be involved in this, and  no corporations who are part of this are going to back out. As long as there's a politic fervor,their hands are tied. They can't bear the consequences of how it will look. Realizing this true relationship would actually be empowering but that entails too much future responsibility and no one really wants that.  

 

 

Kirk-

I can tolerate a lot, but when you say I mis-use hyphens, I go ballistic. 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Ben, I use to think you're repetition was because, let's face it none of us are getting younger, so I could put up with 2 consecutive posts where you talk about your Uncle Jerry "smelling a rat".

Then i realized in the JFK section you're concerned about your performance level,  that you're not at all repetitive. You contribute, thoughtfully, and earnestly, and have some of your own ideas and theories. . You're even a bit of a climber, regularly kissing Jim Di's ass.      

heh heh

Seriously, Why the 2 personalities?

[Kirk Gallaway]

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ben, I use to think you're repetition was because, let's face it none of us are getting younger, so I could put up with 2 consecutive posts where you talk about your Uncle Jerry "smelling a rat".

Then i realized in the JFK section you're concerned about your performance level,  that you're not at all repetitive. You contribute, thoughtfully, and earnestly, and have some of your own ideas and theories. . You're even a bit of a climber, regularly kissing Jim Di's ass.      

heh heh

Seriously, Why the 2 personalities?

Kirk-

Jim D. is a pillar of the JFKA research community. I admire his work, and he is a true historian, one who reads primary documents, evidently a lost capacity. 

I often ask myself about my personality, and we both agree we have only one.  

 

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Thank you for plummeting your depths for me, Ben!

******

Equal time,

Thanked On Russian Media