The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Steve Thomas]

Donald Trump's new lawyer appoints herself as the judge.

I wonder if she will appoint herself as the jury too.

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21583413-habbagaliciashowcause41222

Steve Thomas

[W. Niederhut]

Terrific essay at The Atlantic this week by psychologist Jonathan Haidt.  Highly recommended.

I would have entitled it, "American Babel-- How Modern Social Media Has Fragmented American Society."

Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid - The Atlantic

April 11, 2022

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Terrific essay at The Atlantic this week by psychologist Jonathan Haidt.  Highly recommended.

I would have entitled it, "American Babel-- How Modern Social Media Has Fragmented American Society."

Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid - The Atlantic

April 11, 2022

I agree with the title; the past 10 years seem uniquely stupid. Ignoring any of the usual Atlantic biases and them quoting CIA personnel, I do have question for you, William. 
 

Who or what drives this triviality on social media? 
 

[W. Niederhut]

19 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

I agree with the title; the past 10 years seem uniquely stupid. Ignoring any of the usual Atlantic biases and them quoting CIA personnel, I do have question for you, William. 
 

Who or what drives this triviality on social media? 
 

Chris,

     The Jonathan Haidt essay is not about triviality per se.  It's about the worsening polarization of perceptions and opinions in society resulting from selective viewing and amplification of content.  And Haidt uses the Biblical metaphor of the Tower of Babel to describe this fragmentation of American society.

    I have witnessed this process firsthand during the past decade on an American football/sports forum with members from various regions and socio-economic classes in the U.S.   Lately, the members seem to be living in increasingly separate social universes-- lacking shared perceptions of basic reality.  It's worrisome.

     At this point, IMO, American society is too fragmented to solve basic existential crises like climate change and the epidemic of gun homicides in the U.S.

Edited April 12, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Chris,

     The Jonathan Haidt essay is not about triviality per se.  It's about the worsening polarization of perceptions and opinions in society resulting from selective viewing and amplification of content.  And Haidt uses the Biblical metaphor of the Tower of Babel to describe this fragmentation of American society.

    I have witnessed this process firsthand during the past decade on an American football/sports forum with members from various regions and socio-economic classes in the U.S.   Lately, the members seem to be living in increasingly separate social universes-- lacking shared perceptions of basic reality.  It's worrisome.

     At this point, IMO, American society is too fragmented to solve basic existential crises like climate change and the epidemic of gun homicides in the U.S.

Sure, I did read the article fully but, it seemed to imply this descending into triviality was an accidental or unintended consequence.
 

In your opinion, do you think this is an accidental situation? That the proletariat are to blame? Or, I’ll ask again, what are the origins of this behaviour in the masses? 
 

I think this may open up an interesting conversation. 

[Paul Brancato]

58 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Sure, I did read the article fully but, it seemed to imply this descending into triviality was an accidental or unintended consequence.
 

In your opinion, do you think this is an accidental situation? That the proletariat are to blame? Or, I’ll ask again, what are the origins of this behaviour in the masses? 
 

I think this may open up an interesting conversation. 

I hope it will. I happen to think it’s purposeful not accidental.

[Steve Thomas]

'More insane than usual' QAnon 'documentary' claims vaccines will transfer Satan's DNA into your blood

by Brad Reed April 12, 2022

https://www.rawstory.com/qanon-2657144627/

“A new QAnon "documentary" out this week is pushing a new conspiracy theory about COVID-19 vaccines that NBC News reporter Ben Collins describes as "more insane than usual."

According to Collins, the documentary is called "Watch the Water" and it's currently "blowing up among anti-vaxxers."

The documentary posits that the vaccines contain a mixture of magnets and snake venom with the goal of transferring "Satan's DNA" into human bodies.”

Me?

I’m not getting vaccinated. Nope. Uh-uh. No way. No how.

Not me. Nope.Never.

It’s the magnets.

*shiver*

Steve Thomas

 

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Sure, I did read the article fully but, it seemed to imply this descending into triviality was an accidental or unintended consequence.
 

In your opinion, do you think this is an accidental situation? That the proletariat are to blame? Or, I’ll ask again, what are the origins of this behaviour in the masses? 
 

I think this may open up an interesting conversation. 

Chris,

     I think some of it is based on emotional appeals to tribalism in social media, which has been labelled in various ways-- e.g., racism, xenophobia, white resentment, identity politics, the "Southern strategy," etc.

    The selective viewing and sharing of content seems to be part of an "Us vs. Them" mentality in U.S. sub-populations.

    And I think these kinds of racial and cultural fault lines have also been deliberately exploited by powerful interest groups-- the Kremlin, the GOP-aligned corporate plutocracy, Koch industries, Rupert Murdoch, Robert Mercer, et.al.

    American plutocrats can't win elections on a platform of tax cuts for billionaires, so they use the media and the Republican Party to rally their base along racial and "culture war" lines-- xenophobia, homophobia, religious Fundamentalism, etc.

    That is how they get the white middle and working classes to vote against their own economic interests.

   

Edited April 12, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Chris,

     I think some of it is based on emotional appeals to tribalism in social media, which has been labelled in various ways-- e.g., racism, xenophobia, white resentment, identity politics, the "Southern strategy," etc.

    The selective viewing and sharing of content seems to be part of an "Us vs. Them" mentality in U.S. sub-populations.

    But I think these kinds of racial and cultural fault lines have been deliberately exploited by powerful interest groups-- the Kremlin, the GOP-aligned corporate plutocracy, Koch industries, Rupert Murdoch, Robert Mercer, et.al.

    American plutocrats can't win elections on a platform of tax cuts for billionaires, so they use the media and the Republican Party to rally their base along racial and "culture war" lines-- xenophobia, homophobia, religious Fundamentalism, etc.

    That is how they get the white middle and working classes to vote against their own economic interests.

   

Hi William,

Are you talking about the causes or the symptoms? I think some of the issues you have listed above are symptoms of a dysfunctional society. One without unity, shared moral values or cohesion, one full of hate and tension. This is the fragmented society depicted in the Atlantic article you shared. If I refine my question a little more; did America just wake up one day divide in two or many pieces? In my opinion its taken time to get to that stage. What are the driving forces that have chiefly contributed to this downturn and triviality which the author references? Or, what are the mediums that have led us here? 
 

I think until we all recognise those mechanisms, we will never have a clear picture. 
 

PS IMHO plutocrats or elites are at the heart of the matter. 

[W. Niederhut]

27 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

Hi William,

Are you talking about the causes or the symptoms? I think some of the issues you have listed above are symptoms of a dysfunctional society. One without unity, shared moral values or cohesion, one full of hate and tension. This is the fragmented society depicted in the Atlantic article you shared. If I refine my question a little more; did America just wake up one day divide in two or many pieces? In my opinion its taken time to get to that stage. What are the driving forces that have chiefly contributed to this downturn and triviality which the author references? Or, what are the mediums that have led us here? 
 

I think until we all recognise those mechanisms, we will never have a clear picture. 
 

PS IMHO plutocrats or elites are at the heart of the matter. 

I agree that the plutocrats (Murdoch, Mercer, et.al.) who own the media are at the heart of the matter, but it's also a dialectical process.

The emotional appeals to tribalism in the media reinforce the fear and anger, which, in turn, drives selective viewing and sharing/amplification of tribalist content on social media-- a vicious cycle.

[Paul Brancato]

I’d like to see a Democratic Party that did not use the Republican all or nothing playbook. Circling the wagons at election times, which nowadays is pretty much all the time, loses trust if not support from educated constituents because it’s dishonest, and from working class folks because it’s hypocritical. Maybe both adjectives are similar, but there’s a difference in my view. If we can read and think we see Democrats (or the NYT) lie about Biden’s son, or Hillary, or whoever the target is, understand why they are doing it, wish they had more courage to just do what’s right and oppose corruption in their own ranks as well as in the thoroughly corrupted elected segment of the Republican Party. Less educated folks might not think it through in the same way, but maybe they do. In any case the Democrats are corrupt too. The problem with Democrats engaging in media censorship, which Matt and maybe others don’t think worth mentioning, is that it reveals something deeper, which is that they are not the good guys and gals we imagine them to be, other than in comparison to the goons on the other side. Biden’s military budget is bigger than ever, he has been unable to change Trump’s border policies, and I’ve read that they are even in court arguing to keep some of them. There is no honest discussion of this issue, or really any other important issue, because alternative voices are shut out of the debate. This may not be true in the new progressives in the House, but what is true is that they no longer get on the front page or invited onto mainstream tv. So they are being silenced too. 
I have never been a fan of the two party system, and it’s more rigged than ever. We all know what the right does because we see them in action in the Senate for instance. But the ‘anyone but Trump’ mentality that rules Democrats at large these days is an overreaction. Just because he was such an awful human doesn’t make Nancy Pelosi the bees knees. Ordinary folks of all colors get the shaft in this country, and the more woke among them are rightfully upset. Democrats will get no where blaming Republican obstruction, because even if it’s true now, there have been many other times when Democrats had the power to change things for the working class and they have not done so. 
Now we are in an inflationary cycle. What exactly does that mean? The owners are raising prices on everything. If you’re wealthy it’s no big deal. But for the average American it will be a disaster. Think our social security payments will keep up? Fat chance. Buy a more efficient car - at what price? It’s just too easy to blame the Republican Party for everything. It can’t possibly be true. In my opinion we need to wake up to that fact and put the blame where it should be, on wealthy elites and their powerful lobbies and lawyers. Ask yourself this - if the 2016 election had been between Trump and Bernie Sanders who would have won? The underemployed and often wage slave masses are rightfully interested in change, and Hillary Clinton was not the candidate to inspire. That campaign was not honest. Bernie was robbed, and not by the Republicans but by elites who like things the way they are, like people divided amongst themselves, elites who could control the Democratic process.

[Paul Brancato]

1 minute ago, W. Niederhut said:

I agree that the plutocrats (Murdoch, Mercer, et.al.) who own the media are at the heart of the matter, but it's also a dialectical process.

The emotional appeals to tribalism in the media reinforce the fear and anger, which, in turn, drives selective viewing and sharing/amplification of tribalist content on social media-- a vicious cycle.

It’s not just Mercer and Murdoch, it’s NBC, Time Warner and the rest. 

[Benjamin Cole]

NEWSWEEK

'Genocide': Biden Uses the Word for First Time to Describe War in Ukraine

BY JAKE THOMAS ON 4/12/22 AT 6:53 PM EDT

---30---

The term "genocide" may be over-used, as a gene-type is not being extinguished---yet. 

Perhaps the world "holocaust" applies to Mariupol. 

But with the Butcher of Syria now leading the Russian offensive, we may see radical jumps in civilian deaths. 

Biden is conferring with Modi, unsuccessfully asking New Delhi for some partial, limited participation in economic sanctions on Russia, or even a mild public statement hinting Moscow is in the wrong.

India gave Biden nothing. 

---30---

"Slovakia to consider providing MiG-29s to Ukraine - Reuters

Slovakia will consider providing Soviet-made MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine if alternative protection of its own air space can be arranged, ...

---30---

Let me guess. Nato/Biden will unable to provide even Slovakia with air cover, or any kind of cover, for providing jets to Ukraine. Same with the Poles and their offer. 

Zelensky asked for 1% of Nato's heavy armor and warplanes. Nato said no. 

Maybe Nato is useless. Ask anyone in Mariupol. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, W. Niederhut said:

I agree that the plutocrats (Murdoch, Mercer, et.al.) who own the media are at the heart of the matter, but it's also a dialectical process.

The emotional appeals to tribalism in the media reinforce the fear and anger, which, in turn, drives selective viewing and sharing/amplification of tribalist content on social media-- a vicious cycle.

We agree on that too.
 

The media is one of the most effective mechanisms when it comes to whipping up the most powerful human emotions. Hate, love, compassion, resentment, anger and fear are all coaxed out of us on a daily basis. The amplification of issues by MSM make us perceive the importance or level of threat to us as much higher than mathematical probability or statistics support. Then you have a population neurotic, in a hysteria, which quickly sorts the population into mobs, as there is safety in the herd. This fight or flight mentality as you know, is as old as humans themselves and can be observed in animals. Mainstream media and the words of politicians is putting people in that state, a primeval one, a dangerous one. 

 

Given those consequences; and the evolution and advances in the social sciences, can we say that nobody saw the above coming? With experimentation on human beings and animals dating back to Skinner, Pavlov until present day, shouldn’t there be more social scientists now aware of the consequences of such a toxic use of media? 
 

Shouldn’t our PR experts and historians familiar with the use of propaganda and shaping public opinion be awake to the present use of media to cause such destruction in society? They too are familiar with human emotions, after all, people buy products for the same reason people buy ideas. 
 

I think there is another mechanism that is like an elephant in the room right now, that is schooling or academia. Our children are a blank canvas for institutions to shape and mould. The shift has been in these institutions which further divides society. If the objective of these institutions is to educate children, give them morality, a logical mindset and to serve a functional economy, preparing them for adulthood, have we been failing at that? This shift in thinking driven by the social sciences doesn’t come from the masses consumed by the trivial, it comes from boards of education. What is the motive for this change in education? There can be no doubt that the education I received is very different to that of someone under 30. Is this progress? What are we trying to accomplish? How you educate the kids, determines how they’ll be as adults. As you know children are very impressionable between the age of zero to 8 years old, their brains are like sponges. 

 

The two most powerful mediums of shaping peoples minds and leading us to the undesirable outcomes depicted in the article, are MSM and schooling/academia. My contention is that the outcome is not accidental or unintended. Anyone involved at a senior level in either profession would or should be able to observe it happening and we have some exceptionally talented people in the social sciences. 
 

 

 

[Guest]

.....

@W. NiederhutI think you are absolutely right on Koch and co. Can it also be Gates? Soros or any of these other big players who are buying news? 
If they are, is it for honourable purposes? Or can their intent be malevolent? ie for their gain and to the detriment of the populous? 
 

Carnegie and Rockefeller funded academia and science, they profited from their purchasing of influence. Homeopathy was ditched for synthetic pills. Oil and plastics were endorsed as safe and efficient. In modern day Europe we have seen the EU and Gates follow in the footsteps of Rockefeller and Carnegie, funding academia, fact checking sites and news. The Kochs are often involved in similar kind of initiatives, Soros too. Its obvious to us all that this unhealthy, and these plutocrats are in many respects subverting democracy before our eyes, yet the media shines the attention on enemies abroad. 

At what point do we call that corruption? Who is there to even call it out? Not the MSM. Not the politicians looking forward to a payout after office. 

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/04/bill-sardi/who-runs-the-world-blackrock-and-vanguard/

We all watched the Blackrock & Vanguard video about monopolies and MSM ownership being largely shared among 9 conglomerates. At which point do these organisations lose our trust or deserve scrutiny? 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Chris Barnard
Added paragraph