The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[W. Niederhut]

Had to laugh.  Here's Putin's krepki Chechen strongman Ramzan Kadyrov shooting free throws... 🤣

 

[Guest]

On 4/12/2022 at 9:04 PM, Paul Brancato said:

I hope it will. I happen to think it’s purposeful not accidental.

You're correct, Paul. 

If anyone looks beyond the immediate theatre, at second glance everything is much more nuanced. How can we be a society who believes in coincidences and ignores mathematical probability?! How can we just watch as a system benefits the people controlling it repeatedly and think it's accidental. It's so foolhardy to just be consumed by the latest trivia when you're watching yourself get poorer and quality of life drop. We readily accept ideas that are bad for us purely because we are told they are good or virtuous. This isn't 7D chess, it just requires some logical thinking, or at least not outsourcing it to celebrities, politicians and think tanks funded by billionaires who stand to benefit from the findings.  

Of course, people don't wan't to face reality, they'd rather have a beer and watch the Kardashians, or WWF than think about how they're getting ripped off. As RFK said, futility and timidity are in many respects are our achilles heel, the idea that we can do nothing to change the course of history. We ignore that fact that consent sits with the masses. Right now we acquiesce, exhibit apathy or choose to take part in a 4 yearly pantomime that equates to the same. 

What a sad state of affairs. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I'm with you Matt.

Paul strikes me as a person who wants to be fair, but he makes the faulty assumption that both sides are equally bad, differing only in what side of the spectrum they are on. However, it's clear to me that Republican politicians are forced to l i e because their policies are anti-average-person and being honest about this would cost them elections. Democratic politicians don't lie (so much) because they don't need to. Also, it is my observation that the truth is generally more important to Democrats than it is to Republicans. Of course, we all know that truth isn't important at all to Republicans who support Trump. (Either that or they aren't too bright.)

I think he is very fair and level headed in his thinking, he isn't one to rush into something. I think like me, Paul is socialising with very wealthy people. It may surprise you but, these types of people love the system, they love a war and they love crisis. All of it presents them with an opportunity to benefit. It's a completely different outlook. 

Here is the thing; if your standard, or anyone else's is that it's ok as long as my party wins or if they are a tiny bit less of a xxxx than the other party politicians, then that's a very low standard to hold. What if Trump's purpose was to be the biggest xxxx and public shame possible? The outcome would be that anything the democrat politicians did would automatically seem refreshing, more honest and more palatable to a majority? Well, your average voter might think; "as long as it's not Trump", it's the lesser or two evils. Why is nobody thinking this two party system is BS? A rigged game? Christ, you were offered up Hilary or Donald and four years later it's Donald or Joe. Look at the ages and track records of these cretins. You have 320 million people and these are the best two? Call me a cynic but if you offer up two awful choices, it's very easy to tip the scales either way. When the public are tired, you switch it up and bring in the next used car salesman or actor. To me at least, the standard shouldn't be that the best candidate is the marginally less deceitful. 

One thing some of us here may want to consider is; when JFK was assassinated, the FBI and CIA helped cover it up. When Hilary Clinton or Donald Trump are investigated, nobody gets jail or prosecution. Is that the FBI who covers stuff up working or the ones that do a pretty damn good honest job for the people? 

If you're a wealthy elite your chief desire must be fixing or eliminating as many variables as possible and controlling outcomes that benefit you, and your acolytes. If my previous post I mentioned WWF; what makes any of you think you're not seeing something analogous to that? I'd love to hear which dems and republicans in recent history were not self serving and serving plutocrats? The ones that are are not serving you or I. 

There is so much wisdom in the JFKA case on this forum that spells out the system and the corruption but, some choose to believe its in isolation. 

[Matt Allison]

Yep.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

To the dismay of Ben and Chris, more red state blue state kool aid to ponder. ( Of course, When has having zero detailed understanding of the American political system iever stopped Chris from pontificating about it to mere American inhabitants? Ben's jingoes  are at least,  brief!) 

Fellow Trump obfuscator , and fervid 2020 stolen election advocate.Mark Meadows has now been found to have voter registration in a red and blue state. Virginia and North Carolina.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article259506469.html

 

kool aid, kool aid ----- tastes great!

wish I had some--- can't wait!

Edited April 14, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Steve Thomas]

https://boingboing.net/2022/04/14/scotland-apologies-for-the-historic-persecution-of-witches.html

 

"In March, in honor of International Women's Month, Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon took the extraordinary step of formally, posthumously apologizing "to all those accused, vilified, or executed under Witchcraft Act of 1563." An estimated 4,000 mostly women were accused of witchcraft over a 200 year period. Two-thirds of those accused were executed."

As women, those accused were not allowed to speak in a courtroom.

 

Bout time.

Steve Thomas

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

To the dismay of Ben and Chris, more red state blue state kool aid to ponder. ( Of course, When has having zero detailed understanding of the American political system iever stopped Chris from pontificating about it to mere American inhabitants? Ben's jingoes  are at least,  brief!) 

Fellow Trump obfuscator , and fervid 2020 stolen election advocate.Mark Meadows has now been found to have voter registration in a red and blue state. Virginia and North Carolina.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article259506469.html

 

kool aid, kool aid ----- tastes great!

wish I had some--- can't wait!

That’s a less than robust response, Kirk. No need for the cheap shots, your mind is better than that. 
I’ll point out again that Ben and I may have a crossover on some topics but, our opinions are often quite different, too. I don’t think for a minute it matters that I am not American when it comes to observing a democrat or republican rally, and the crowd are glazed over like the Jim Jones cult (who indeed did drink the koolaid). Have you ever thought about the connection there? 

Not having a horse in the two horse exhibition probably puts me in a better position to see the absurdity of it, as I am free of the emotiions that you have. By the same logic it may put you in a better position to understand the Labour/Conservative version this side of the Atlantic. 

As for fraud during elections, it happens every time, the question is always; to what extent. 

[Guest]

On 4/13/2022 at 3:10 AM, Benjamin Cole said:

You are asking the right questions. 

Unfortunately, people don’t want to hear the right questions, it’s highly uncomfortable for some who have invested their time, emotions and worship into a party and system they believe is serving them. Its simply more comfortable to just stick the head in the sand and carry on, pretending such questions don’t exist. It’s very much like someone with an unfaithful partner, who rather than confront or leave, would pretend everything is ok. It’s pure denial. 
 

The positives are that gradually, bit by bit, even some of the hardliners here are opening their minds a tiny bit at a time to the idea that leaders are not serving them. Even so, the idea that its corrupt individuals as opposed to a class or a system that is betraying them is still more palatable. 

[Paul Brancato]

So several posters are happy with anyone but Trump. Maybe not ecstatic, but they hasten to point out how much better off the average person is living in the US vs Russia, or how much more pervasive propaganda is there than here, and that I must think it’s equally bad living here. Relativistic thinking, if that is a term. We compare ourselves to Russia and pat ourselves on our backs. If anyone criticizes the Democratic Party, or our mainstream media, the immediate response, as it has been for my whole life, is a variation on ‘if you don’t like it here move to Russia’. What you say is true, but It’s a straw man argument. The fact that Chris Hedges or the rest I’ve mentioned can somehow find a small audience despite being censored because we at least live in a free society is grasping at straws. The only type of imagining we do is to imagine how much worse things could be. 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

The fact that Chris Hedges or the rest I’ve mentioned can somehow find a small audience despite being censored because we at least live in a free society is grasping at straws. The only type of imagining we do is to imagine how much worse things could be. 

IMHO Hedges should be heard everywhere, by all, if only at the least to provide a perspective that isn’t widely heard. I listen to him a fair bit.
 

A factor here is that after growing up and the country you were born in was the worlds most powerful, there was national pride, a feel good factor. Nobody wants to let go of it. I am not sure my father ever let go of the British empire, even though its crumbling could be seen all around him. Also, when things are good and you’ve been on a great run, you never think its going to end, you’ll always find excused to believe that this is just a bump in the road and nothing to worry about. 
 

This drawing parallels of how bad north Korea, Iran or Russia is to live in is absurd. Because such a mentality avoids looking introspectively about how far the place you live has fallen, in fact; it stops you analysing your own situation at all. 
 

Rome is falling, while hubris and denial endure. 

29 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

So several posters are happy with anyone but Trump.

When the allergy against Trump wears off, when he has served his purpose, he’ll be swapped out for another and the media will amplify the next deus ex machina story in the same way, one half of the MSM treating them as a god and the other vilifying them. The people will be just as incensed, just as engrossed, afraid and addicted to news about that character. 
 

Every successful investor I know believes this is a game. They profit from it. Those swallowing headlines and arguing the trivial just get poorer. 
 

For anyone who doesn’t understand Plato’s allegory of the cave, please take time to look at it. Consider for a moment; what if you’re wrong?
If I am wrong this system continues. If you are wrong and do nothing, you a part of its mechanism and actively support it. 
 

How many times do we need to see the same tricks repeated before we become wise? 

[Benjamin Cole]

When George Bush Jr., and Liz Cheney become the New Donk heroes....

Can anyone tell me the difference between a Hillary Clinton foreign-military-trade policy and a Liz Cheney foreign-military-trade policy? 

Why does the Donk Party want cheap labor in America? 

I suspect Liz Cheney is Hillary Clinton, but wearing thick glasses and wig.  

In better news, I have figured out how to get the Biden Administration to get serious about repelling Putin in Ukraine. 

We need to spread a story that Russian soldiers are abusing and persecuting transexuals in Ukraine. 

Headline:

"Transexuals Abused By Russian Troops: Biden Administration Declares War" 

[W. Niederhut]

So, you imagine that Dubya Bush and Liz Cheney are "New Donk heroes" now, Ben? 

I suppose this latest non-fact-based theory of yours derives from your old non-fact-based theory that Trump's January 6th coup attempt was merely a "scrum" used to "purge patriots?"

As a guy who took some flak in March of 2003 for criticizing Dubya's invasion of Iraq, (as did former Colorado Senator Gary Hart, in a debate on Fox News with Bill Blah-Blah O'Reilly) I find your latest theory especially absurd.

Personally, I've never met a single Republican who opposed the invasion of Iraq in 2003-- and I've known a lot of Republicans and Democrats intimately over the years, in my psychiatric practice.

The truth is that it took most Republicans years to even admit that Bush's Iraq WMD sales pitch was a snow job.

As for Paul Brancato's comments about "bipartisan" propaganda in the M$M, I generally agree-- which is why I used to read Russia Today, to get some perspective on our U.S. M$M propaganda bubble.

But Pat Speer's comments on RT were excellent.  Its ultimate focus was always on promoting the Kremlin and undermining the U.S., whenever possible.

Everyone on this forum is quite familiar with the role that "liberal" and conservative news sources have played in covering up CIA and military black ops (including the JFK assassination) since the 1950s.  WaPo, NYT, and CBS have been among the worst offenders.

But I also agree with Matt.  There is a qualitative (and quantitative) difference in the disinformation being cranked out of the right wing M$M in the 21st century-- especially by Rupert Murdoch's propaganda empire, along with the crap funded by Robert Mercer, Phil Anschutz, and television corporations like Sinclair, Newsmax, and OANN.

In fact, a recent five year study at Stanford showed that reality-testing improved significantly for Fox News watchers who were paid to switch to CNN.

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

48 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

So, you imagine that Dubya Bush and Liz Cheney are "New Donk heroes" now, Ben? 

I suppose this latest non-fact-based theory of yours derives from your old non-fact-based theory that Trump's January 6th coup attempt was merely a "scrum" used to "purge patriots?"

As a guy who took some flak in March of 2003 for criticizing Dubya's invasion of Iraq, (as did former Colorado Senator Gary Hart, in a debate on Fox News with Bill Blah-Blah O'Reilly) I find your latest theory especially absurd.

Personally, I've never met a single Republican who opposed the invasion of Iraq in 2003-- and I've known a lot of Republicans and Democrats intimately over the years, in my psychiatric practice.

The truth is that it took most Republicans years to even admit that Bush's Iraq WMD sales pitch was a snow job.

As for Paul Brancato's comments about "bipartisan" propaganda in the M$M, I generally agree-- which is why I used to read Russia Today, to get some perspective on our U.S. M$M propaganda bubble.

But Pat Speer's comments on RT were excellent.  Its ultimate focus was always on promoting the Kremlin and undermining the U.S., whenever possible.

Everyone on this forum is quite familiar with the role that "liberal" and conservative news sources have played in covering up CIA and military black ops (including the JFK assassination) since the 1950s.  WaPo, NYT, and CBS have been among the worst offenders.

But I also agree with Matt.  There is a qualitative (and quantitative) difference in the disinformation being cranked out of the right wing M$M in the 21st century-- especially by Rupert Murdoch's propaganda empire, along with the crap funded by Robert Mercer, Phil Anschutz, and television corporations like Sinclair, Newsmax, and OANN.

In fact, a recent five year study at Stanford showed that reality-testing improved significantly for Fox News watchers who were paid to switch to CNN.

 

W-

Please outline for me the foreign-military-trade policy differences between Liz Cheney and Hillary Clinton. Use of a magnifying glass is allowed. 

Also, do you have a verifiable photo of them both in the same room at the same time? 

Thanks

B

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Also, do you have a verifiable photo of them both in the same room at the same time? 

😂🤣🤣🤣

[Kirk Gallaway]

Actually Paul, My Dad said "maybe you should go to Russia and see how you like it " to me in about 69-70!   heh heh

I think about the best example  you can make about relative happiness would be the young person in the U.S. with 100k in education debt with no reasonable prospect of paying it down and watching some of his friends lead an upwardly mobile lifestyle,  is certainly weighed down a lot more more than a typical Russian youth with similarly no prospects, and no other friends with those prospects, but very little debt.

But it seems it's harder to imagine the suppression of being round up for political belief's against an autocracy.

!.Paul:The problem with Democrats engaging in media censorship,

2. Paul:If we can read and think we see Democrats (or the NYT)lie about Biden’s son, or Hillary, or whoever the target is, understand why they are doing it, wish they had more courage to just do what’s right and oppose corruption in their own ranks as well as in the thoroughly corrupted elected segment of the Republican Party.

The first point I was making Paul that you automatically assume is in evidence and  haven't addressed is "How are the Democrats are engaging in media censorship?" And the how are they "lying" about Hunter Biden and Hilary Clinton?.And what specifically is it that you're charging them with,  that the Democrats are lying about?

Have you ever thought that there is a sort of "cancel culture" here about of debunking conspiracy theories  on a conspiracy website?" Because I have. This question is immediately avoided by calling it a red state/ blue state partisan issue,  when in reality I'm just asking you to clarify. What on earth are you talking about here? Is  this a hyphenated Democrat/NYT/DOJ conspiracy theory?  You've just sort of hit and run here and haven't explained in any detail your theory.But what's worse to me is your saying anyone who would question that is somehow an "American" or "Democrat" "homey" and the usual followers come in and support that, and nothing is clarified.. Could you support your argument? Because it's not clear.