The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Benjamin Cole]

Opinion US Capitol attack

Trump’s forces are preparing for the next storming of the Capitol. This time, they plan to win

Jonathan Freedland--The Guardian 

---30---

No comment. Just thought this was an interesting headline. 

[Ron Bulman]

17 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

"It is hard to heap praise on Pence. He was the loyal lieutenant to the worst president in history. But beneath a quivering mass of compromise, there was a core of principle, particularly in defending the Constitution."

Enjoy this article, free of charge, thanks to my WaPo subscription

https://wapo.st/3xDWaUq

 

Thanks Matt, quite a piece for the wapo.

[Paul Brancato]

43 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

IMHO

Well..

Not sure about "fringe left" radio, as I can't listen to US radio. It did seem the right-wing dominated  radio when I left 10 years ago. 

But consider the treatment of these four stories:

1. Russiagate hoax

2. Wuhan lab leak debunked, and censorship required

3. Brian Sicknick was murdered by a mob

4. Hunter Biden's laptop was a Russian disinformation story. 

I would say there has been a merging on the Donk political party with M$M and the Deep State, that is a rough parallel to what happened to the establishment 'Phants a generation or two earlier. 

The old Democratic Party, heavily affiliated with labor and having anti-war elements (though yes, LBJ started the Vietnam War), and skeptical of intel agencies, has evaporated---along with what used to be left-wing media. 

One could posit there is no left-wing fringe media, as there is no more left-wing media at all!

In the larger society, I would say the fringe left and right are duking it out to the bottom. The left-wing embrace of ID politics, censorship, and ridiculous language---the "birthing people," and "people who menstruate"---or the right-wing insanity regarding high-powered weapons that are not needed for self-defense.

Another troubling development has been the Donk Party embrace of the neo-liberal world order, which looks exactly like the neo-con world order.  

neo-con=neo-liberal

The Donk Party embraces a huge global guard service for multinationals, open borders for trade and cheap labor, and the attendant destruction of the American middle class. The Detroitification of America. Linking arms with the establishment 'Phants.

What am I "spinning"?

IMHO 

 

 

You’re spinning literally everything and ducking a bit too. 10 years ago was like now btw. I complained about the airwave problem 30 years ago, not that any of us could do anything about it. Socialist ideas are anathema to most from our ruling class. Is that not obvious? The scandals you specifically mentioned? Bipartisan Senate agreed something fishy between Trump and Russia. Biden’s laptop? NYT apologized for their initial coverage. Still don’t know what was on it. Do you? Wuhan lab leak or not? Jury is still out. I know a prominent pathologist who is well connected. At first the scientific community doubted it, but have at least come to the conclusion they can’t be sure one way or the other. Brian Sicknick ruled dead of natural causes. Media had that wrong. But he was pepper sprayed. And anyone can see the violence in the mob if they watch. I watched enough. I don’t need the theater. I hope it does some good. 
your comments about the left being over concerned with pc language - Yup that’s true, though it’s not the old left, it’s something else entirely. I don’t identify with that, take George Carlin’s view on it to heart. It’s funny - I’m from a left milieu, my whole life. I don’t know anyone who doesn't think it’s over the top. We all find it annoying. Wonder how other posters feel about it. ID politics? What’s that? 

[W. Niederhut]

Incredibly, Ben is still parroting Donald Trump's debunked propaganda memes about the "Russia hoax."

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

IMHO

Well..

Not sure about "fringe left" radio, as I can't listen to US radio. It did seem the right-wing dominated  radio when I left 10 years ago. 

But consider the treatment of these four stories:

1. Russiagate hoax

2. Wuhan lab leak debunked, and censorship required

3. Brian Sicknick was murdered by a mob

4. Hunter Biden's laptop was a Russian disinformation story.

Ben,

      Have you still not figured out that Russiagate was not a hoax?  Geez...  Talk about a guy who continues to drink the kool aid... 🤥

     As for Brian Sicknick, rather than re-writing my rebuttal of your repeated claims about Sicknick's death-- which I posted for you on April 27, 2021 -- I'm cutting-and-pasting it below.  *

      I've been board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology for decades, and I never bought the claims about his death being unrelated to his assault and exposure to toxic chemicals on January 6th.

     Among other issues, we were never informed about toxicology screens to clarify whether Sicknick was poisoned on 1/6 by chemicals that could have caused a fatal arrhythmia or hypertensive crisis.

      Sicknick's police colleague (Edwards) who testified in the Thursday Congressional hearing-- which you didn't bother to watch-- reported that Sicknick was sprayed by the Capitol attackers with a chemical that wasn't like pepper spray or mace, (i.e., didn't cause facial flushing) which caused him to collapse and turn deathly pale.  What was it?  What was its elimination half-life?  What toxicology screening was done at autopsy?

      *

W. Niederhut

Posted April 27, 2021 (edited)

Benjamin,

     I remain skeptical about the conclusions of the medical examiner in the Brian Sicknick case, as I mentioned the last time you raised this subject.  What is the probability that a young man of Sicknick's age would suddenly die of unrelated "natural" causes shortly after being assaulted by a violent mob?

     Brainstem strokes are very rare in men of Sicknick's age, in the absence of unusual risk factors like extreme hypertension and/or stimulant intoxication.

     It also seems odd, IMO, that the medical examiner waited 100 days to release his unusual conclusion that Sicknick's death was unrelated to his assault and likely exposure to toxic chemicals on January 6th.  

     Finally, if there was a Deep State conspiracy to make Sicknick a martyr, why was the medical examiner's report published in the mainstream media at all?

   

Edited June 12, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

11 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Incredibly, Ben is still parroting Donald Trump's debunked propaganda memes about the "Russia hoax."

Ben,

      Have you still not figured out that Russiagate was not a hoax?  Geez...  Talk about a guy who continues to drink the kool aid... 🤥

     As for Brian Sicknick, rather than re-writing my rebuttal of your repeated claims about Sicknick's death-- which I posted for you on April 27, 2021 -- I'm cutting-and-pasting it below.  *

      I've been board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology for decades, and I never bought the claims about his death being unrelated to his assault and exposure to toxic chemicals on January 6th.

     Among other issues, we were never informed about toxicology screens to clarify whether Sicknick was poisoned on 1/6 by chemicals that could have caused a fatal arrhythmia or hypertensive crisis.

      Sicknick's police colleague (Edwards) who testified in the Thursday Congressional hearing-- which you didn't bother to watch-- reported that Sicknick was sprayed by the Capitol attackers with a chemical that wasn't like pepper spray or mace, (i.e., didn't cause facial flushing) which caused him to collapse and turn deathly pale.  What was it?  What was its elimination half-life?  What toxicology screening was done at autopsy?

      *

W. Niederhut

• 
• Members
• • 2.9k

 

Posted April 27, 2021 (edited)

Benjamin,

     I remain skeptical about the conclusions of the medical examiner in the Brian Sicknick case, as I mentioned the last time you raised this subject.  What is the probability that a young man of Sicknick's age would suddenly die of unrelated "natural" causes shortly after being assaulted by a violent mob?

     Brainstem strokes are very rare in men of Sicknick's age, in the absence of unusual risk factors like extreme hypertension and/or stimulant intoxication.

     It also seems odd, IMO, that the medical examiner waited 100 days to release his unusual conclusion that Sicknick's death was unrelated to his assault and likely exposure to toxic chemicals on January 6th.  

     Finally, if there was a Deep State conspiracy to make Sicknick a martyr, why was the medical examiner's report published in the mainstream media at all?

   

W-

IMHO 

We will just have to agree to disagree on Russiagate. I have also stated my views, which align with those of Matt Taibbi, Aaron Mate and Glenn Greenwald, The Hill, Breaking Points, who are all independent journalists or outfits with good, if not perfect, track records. 

The DC medical examiner's report on Sicknick was written by a veteran and co-signed by two other medical examiners, as I recall.  I once posted it on this forum. The DC government is a Donk-stronghold, btw. If you are looking for political bias in the medical examiner's report....

My guess is the DC medical examiner waited 100 days to cross every "t" and dot every "i" and, if anything, to avoid the awkward result coming out while Sicknick was being martyrized. 

Sicknick also called his family after the riot and said he was fine. There are videos of him retreating behind the scenes on foot, and washing his face.  In addition to protestors spraying what was probably bear spray, the Capitol police were spraying tear gas. 

Given that Sicknick was laid in state in the Capitol, and treated by a martyr in M$M, I think we can say he was martyrized. This strikes me as indisputable.

Right-wing elements tried to martyrize Ashley Babbit, and that strikes me as indisputable, but they have smaller platforms than the M$M. 

IMHO 

 

 

 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

You’re spinning literally everything and ducking a bit too. 10 years ago was like now btw. I complained about the airwave problem 30 years ago, not that any of us could do anything about it. Socialist ideas are anathema to most from our ruling class. Is that not obvious? The scandals you specifically mentioned? Bipartisan Senate agreed something fishy between Trump and Russia. Biden’s laptop? NYT apologized for their initial coverage. Still don’t know what was on it. Do you? Wuhan lab leak or not? Jury is still out. I know a prominent pathologist who is well connected. At first the scientific community doubted it, but have at least come to the conclusion they can’t be sure one way or the other. Brian Sicknick ruled dead of natural causes. Media had that wrong. But he was pepper sprayed. And anyone can see the violence in the mob if they watch. I watched enough. I don’t need the theater. I hope it does some good. 
your comments about the left being over concerned with pc language - Yup that’s true, though it’s not the old left, it’s something else entirely. I don’t identify with that, take George Carlin’s view on it to heart. It’s funny - I’m from a left milieu, my whole life. I don’t know anyone who doesn't think it’s over the top. We all find it annoying. Wonder how other posters feel about it. ID politics? What’s that? 

Paul-

IMHO

You seem to agree with me. 

I do not trust the M$M, or the aligned, coopted, legally corrupt political parties and the censorious panopticon state. 

This makes me a Trumper? 

Did history start with Trump? Has the Deep State, that controls so much of US military-foreign-trade policy, disappear during the Trump Presidency? 

Yes, I think the Donks and 'Phants are equally repulsive.  I thought Trump an unnecessarily polarizing President...though Bush Jr. was miles and miles and miles and miles worse. 

I plead guilty. Should I be sent to a reorientation center for treatment? 

[Matt Allison]

It would truly suck if you went to Dealey for legit reasons and had to deal with this garbage

 

[Ron Bulman]

57 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

It would truly suck if you went to Dealey for legit reasons and had to deal with this garbage

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

58 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

It would truly suck if you went to Dealey for legit reasons and had to deal with this garbage

 

And the reverend trumph said, if they follow me into the jungle, I have Kool-Aid.

[Guest]

On 6/11/2022 at 4:47 AM, W. Niederhut said:

"The hardcore lot?"  As opposed to what--the clueless, false-equivalence Trumplican ostriches who are still in denial about Trump's historic, unprecedented crimes against the United States?  

A bit touchy, William. 
 

On 6/11/2022 at 4:47 AM, W. Niederhut said:

Newsflash...

1)   Trump conspired to remain in office as POTUS by obstructing the January 6th Congressional certification of Biden's election, despite knowing full well that his Big Lie about alleged election fraudulence was a lie.  (Did you listen to Bill Barr's testimony during last night's hearing?)

2)  As part of that coordinated effort, he invited and incited an angry mob to invade the U.S. Capitol on January 6th, violently attacking and injuring the police, and he even supported calls to lynch the U.S. Vice President.  Some of Trump's January 6th Proud Boys and Oath Keepers have already pled guilty to seditious conspiracy.

3)  Trump watched the violent attack on television for three hours, and did nothing to intervene-- despite multiple requests from concerned staffers, family members, and members of Congress.

I think your post is more for the gallery than at me, as I think we’ve been round in circles on this repeatedly. Still my central question is ignored. Why? Because you can’t answer it. There is massive hole in your logic here. I’ll ask again; How was this rabble going to take over the Pentagon, CIA, NSA, FBI, etc etc? Agencies that aren’t pro Trump. 
There is a general consensus here amongst us, including yourself, about where true power sits. You are not using that logic regarding this 1/6 Trump thing. 
 

On 6/11/2022 at 4:47 AM, W. Niederhut said:

BTW, where are you getting your "news" and opinions about January 6th?  

I'm curious about such disinformation sources.

In contrast to yourself, I use my critical thinking skills to formulate opinions. I don’t sit regurgitating the thoughts of others in MSM. Or quoting CIA fronts. You quote MSM when it suits you and at other times suggest it’s corrupted and infiltrated. You can see the obvious hypocrisy in that, can you not, William? 

Think for yourself and stop seeking out confirmation bias materials. I read a great book last week by polymath, Gustave Le Bon called “The Crowd.” The author gets into “group think” and the suggestibility or the herd, how people behave as a collective, in great detail. This is essential reading for you to understand your condition. 

[Douglas Caddy]

Important geopolitical development

 

With Russian forces set to enter Central America, how will the US respond? (msn.com)

[Douglas Caddy]

 

Members of white nationalist group charged with planning riot at Idaho pride event (aol.com)

[Paul Bacon]

14 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

23 hours ago, Paul Bacon said:

For me, I don't think it's just the fringe-left M$M.  I mostly watch MSNBC and I cringe all the time listening to the frequent bullshit.  I don't buy the obvious propaganda, but I do listen closely to information provided by smart, measured guests.

 

Paul,

What I've highlighted...

Are you seriously saying that the hosts on MSNBC frequently lie and mislead? If you are, I'd sure like to hear some examples. Because I don't believe it. At least not with Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell and their substitutes. (Those are the two shows on MSNBC that I regularly watch.)

No, no Sandy.  I was talking about the spin -- it's way over the top, and off-putting for me, and I imagine it would be off-putting to any who are on the fence about issues.  But, no, I'm not seeing lies like I see at Fox News.

To be fair, I'm on the east coast and can't stay up late enough to watch RM or LO-- I'm stuck with Ari Melber and Joy Reed.  Their target audience seem to be children.  Chris Hayes is great--informative, no spin, and great guests.  And that's as late as I can stay up :>).

 

[W. Niederhut]

9 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

A bit touchy, William. 
 

I think your post is more for the gallery than at me, as I think we’ve been round in circles on this repeatedly. Still my central question is ignored. Why? Because you can’t answer it. There is massive hole in your logic here. I’ll ask again; How was this rabble going to take over the Pentagon, CIA, NSA, FBI, etc etc? Agencies that aren’t pro Trump. 
There is a general consensus here amongst us, including yourself, about where true power sits. You are not using that logic regarding this 1/6 Trump thing. 
 

In contrast to yourself, I use my critical thinking skills to formulate opinions. I don’t sit regurgitating the thoughts of others in MSM. Or quoting CIA fronts. You quote MSM when it suits you and at other times suggest it’s corrupted and infiltrated. You can see the obvious hypocrisy in that, can you not, William? 

Think for yourself and stop seeking out confirmation bias materials. I read a great book last week by polymath, Gustave Le Bon called “The Crowd.” The author gets into “group think” and the suggestibility or the herd, how people behave as a collective, in great detail. This is essential reading for you to understand your condition. 

Chris,

     There's a lot of nonsense in your post here.  Briefly...

1)  Touchy?   Study the teachings of your English sage, Samuel Johnson.

    There's nothing inappropriate about having strong feelings about things that matter-- like the fate of liberal democracy vs. fascist authoritarianism.

2)  The answer to your question was implicit in my (above) response.  To wit, if Trump had succeeded in remaining in the White House after January 6th, he would have continued to control the Pentagon, CIA, NSA, and FBI.  Perhaps you aren't aware that he had appointed his sycophantic flying monkeys to run all of those institutions, with the partial exception of the CIA (after Pompeo left the CIA to become Secretary of State.)

3)  You and Ben continue to overgeneralize about the nature of censorship and disinformation in the higher quality M$M organizations in the U.S.  It isn't all-or-nothing.  For example, in the case of the Washington Post, their primary censorship and suppression/distortion of news has to do with CIA and military black ops.

      Trump's coup attempt was not a Deep State black op.  It was run by Trump and his Willard Hotel goon squad-- Giuliani, Powell, Eastman, Bannon, Flynn, Meadows, et.al.

Edited June 12, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Douglas Caddy]

 

 

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