The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Paul Brancato]

Chris - I don’t think the Chinese system would work here. I don’t think what we, or I, call the Deep State, as in the thread I started, has changed that much. Some are pointing to the Democratic Party as being Deep State. There is no danger of Socialism - is that what you meant by collectivism - breaking out here. What you have are disgruntled masses yearning to break free of their circumstances, for which politicians are blamed. Republicans, cynically, have emerged as the would be heroes of this underemployed and beleaguered working class, thanks to Trump. I surely don’t blame them for being pissed. Would a second Trump presidency usher in a new era where the downtrodden would find hope? If one defines that as white privilege maybe so, though that is simplistic. But no one is going to lift up the people being left behind by a callous out of control Capitalist system. They are useful fodder in many ways. Wage slaves when they work, soldiers when we go to war, addicts when the depression gets too heavy to bear, suicides, shortened life spans. I would bet on Republicans, presumably led by Trump, taking over in the next two election cycles, all with the blessing of the good old Deep State. 
 

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Inadvertently you attributed to Sandy several things from my recent post. 
“Lost in a sea of Irrelevance”. Feels like it to me. 
Two parts of our body politic are at odds with each other. I think these differences are being purposefully magnified, because a divided nation cannot come together and enact any meaningful change that might threaten status quo power structures and attendant financial interests. The mechanisms for this magnification are numerous, some hidden some not. 
Beneath all the noise there is a long standing battle of ideas, one progressive, one regressive. Human rights vs property rights, nationalism vs egalitarianism, many other dualities. This goes back thousands of years. 
Here’s a question: if there is a US deep state, and if they benefit from division, would they prevent a takeover by autocrats? There is ample proof that Social Democrats will never be allowed to assume the mantle of power, even within the political party under whose umbrella they function. This is because, in my view, redistribution of wealth not promoted by the elites themselves but imposed on them by a Democratic government is anathema, and elites clearly have the power to prevent it. But is the same true on the other side of the divide? I think this will be put to the test soon. Is divided government better for them than an autocratic nationalist ruler? 
 

 Is divided government better for them [financial elites] than an autocratic nationalist ruler? --PB

¡IMHO!

The sad answer to this, in present context, is "yes." 

A lot depends, of course, on what the goals of the "autocratic national ruler" are. If the autocratic nationalist ruler is a non-interventionist on the global scene, and wants "nationalist" trade and immigration policies, then yes the elites are happy campers with the present divisionism. 

The financial elites, by all measures, have exploded in wealth and power the past 50 years, aided and abetted by the US divided political parties, and have also created a panopticon state and a global guard service for multinationals. Have much better can it get (for the elites)?

Fat City for the top 1%, and pretty good for top 5% underlings, managerial-professional class. 

Meanwhile, the two political parties have Detroitified large parts of America, and the middle class has evaporated. 

Not Fat City for the rest of us. 

I understand there is a great deal of deserved animosity regarding Trump---some people on this forum are unhinged, and want to see him hanged on the Capitol steps. Trump's machinations and personality are not defensible---and that is what M$M cannot stop covering in greatest detail, fomenting as much hatred as possible. "Insurrection Porn" is useful. 

But why did the elites--and lackeys in the M$M--so loath Trump? After all, they loved Bush jr. with his two ghastly illegal wars in the Mideast, and HRC-Liz Cheney, little warmongers in pantsuits. 

What the elites truly hated about Trump was his populism-nationalism, rather than their internationalism. 

If enacted, Trump' policies would result in "tight labor markets" in the US, and you know who that is good for. Not the elites. 

There are a lot of reasons to not have Trump in the White House, and perhaps even for Trump's incarceration after a fair trial. 

The elites are glad to see Trump go, and want to tarnish and destroy the populist movement, by any means necessary. 

The M$M wants you believe what ails America is Mr. Bad Bad Orange.

We have way bigger problems. 

 

[Ron Bulman]

6 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Jan. 6 investigators appear to have ‘stumbled on another’ crime committed by Trump: legal expert

by Sky Palma June 13, 2022

https://www.rawstory.com/jan-6-hearing-trump-crimes/

“This Monday, the House committee investigating the Capitol riot said that former President Donald Trump fundraised off his false claims of mass voter fraud in the 2020 election.

“The Trump campaign knew that these claims of voter fraud were false yet they continued to barrage small-dollar donors with emails encouraging them to donate to something called the ‘Official Election Defense Fund,’” senior investigative counsel Amanda Wick said. “The select committee discovered no such fund existed.”

During a segment on MSNBC this Monday, former U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said the revelation shows that the committee "in investigating one crime may have stumbled on another."

"...if [Trump] is using a lie as a false pretense to collect money from people, that could also be a charge of wire fraud, so, in that way, we may have seen an expansion of the potential liability here," McQuade said”

No such fund existed. Fancy that.

Steve Thomas

Bump.  Important.

[Matt Allison]

LOL

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pack-your-stuff-and-get-out-of-my-house-says-patriot-front-members-mom

 

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I missed the second J-6 committee hearing this morning (grandkids swimming lessons, wife's physical therapy).

Looking to watch them completely this afternoon I had problems at two sites, PBS played, stopped then wouldn't.  The Hill audio/video was not synced.  So, I was really surprised to find this at this site.  Anyone who has not watched it should take the time.

 Watch Live: January 6 Committee Holds Second Hearing (breitbart.com)

Damn.  Barr pretty much ripped his former boss a new, ah, um, yeah.  About fraud I counted three times he said he told him it was bullsh*t.  He thought "If he really believes this, he's lost touch with reality."  Checking out all the rumors (which they did) referred by the administration was like "Whack A Mole".  He told him Philadelphia rumors were rubbish.

They are also showing Rudy Guliani make a bigger fool of himself than he already was.

Was it that greatest republican elections lawyer in the last thirty years (I didn't note his name) who said "it was a Coup in search of a legal theory." ?

The Election Defense Fund was a scam, of his own poorest supporters.  Such an entity never existed.  I read today about possible separate charges on this.

The whole enchilada is well worth your time if you are objective.  If you don't have time for the whole thing starting at about the last twelve minutes is pretty damming.       

 

Nobody else watched this?  Dead on here tonight.  So a bump.  Maybe a music video would help?  I mentioned he whole enchilada.  Well, hit the floor like a pinata, roll your hips like 

 

[Matt Allison]

11 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Nobody else watched this? 

Oh I watched, but of course I already know this was a coup attempt by horrible American traitors.

I'll continue to watch every hearing and look forward to indictments in the future.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

 

Chris - I don’t think the Chinese system would work here. I don’t think what we, or I, call the Deep State, as in the thread I started, has changed that much. Some are pointing to the Democratic Party as being Deep State. There is no danger of Socialism - is that what you meant by collectivism - breaking out here.

 

I think it’ll work anywhere, as it's more or less the process of breaking down a POW or psychiatric patient, but, doing it to the masses. Your aim is to eventually remove all traditions, existing culture and values. The result is that you have a society that is neutral. ie they only have government to look up to, no religion, no hero’s from the past, no stoic archetypes, only the state. It’s true that the USA is the hardest culture to break, because of national pride as the empire of our time. The nationalism phase served its purpose, which was dominating the globe through it's foreign policy and acquiring resources etc. That cycle is almost at an end. Yes, we know all empires rise and fall, they have periods of great progress and then they fall info decay. Ultimately for these elites it was more profitable (more growth) investing in China and use that cheap labour to further their ends at the expense of ordinary Americans. America could have stayed at the top for a lot longer, the end is almost being accelerated. At the same time he importance of the USA as a nation is diminished, we are suddenly offering up increased powers and responsibility to global bodies. For Americans to accept a global government, you first need to break their culture and nationalism. Sell these organisations as something better. Your Republicans are still on the right but, both parties have moved left, so nobody really notices, same in the UK and other nations. In the USA you can either condition society for a long period to accomplish this or cause a breakup. The advocacy of smart cities will give locations independence or a separation from the individual state, and you’ll have this technocracy. When I say. “collectivism” it is just the vehicle to technocracy, it's the underlying ideology of nationalism, socialism, communism and fascism. It enables the control of the masses because it appeals to the mind and our instincts. The whole of the West is doing the same thing. The whole of the West is really controlled by the most power nation in the sphere, America. This is mostly happening incrementally, that is the nature of tyrants. Gradual pressure, in the end a distracted people, with a broken will, will always acquiesce, take steps back. That’s really what the WEF are marketing. Problems are created and provide solutions that leave us deeper entwined with tech. It's always dressed as progress, with a benefit, and tyrants never tell you that something is bad for you. The mob will always trade their freedoms for temporary security, especially if you’ve provided the fear. The same process plays out time and time again. Right now, I think we’re in a series of crisis that will make people desperate and look to the state for salvation. We’re being periodically put in a fear psychosis, making the population more helpless and subservient. At the point we are most desperate, the WEF co will provide a new system that is marketed as better and safer for us all, which will be technocracy. The people will treat them as Saviour's, heroes. As long as it appears better than the crisis, it will work. The trouble is, social credit scoring, government digital currencies, state powers that no know limits, and support of a heavily psychologically conditioned society will leave us in a tyranny that is almost impossible to get out of. One akin to a 1984 and a Brave New World Revisited. 

 

6 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

What you have are disgruntled masses yearning to break free of their circumstances, for which politicians are blamed. Republicans, cynically, have emerged as the would be heroes of this underemployed and beleaguered working class, thanks to Trump. I surely don’t blame them for being pissed. Would a second Trump presidency usher in a new era where the downtrodden would find hope? If one defines that as white privilege maybe so, though that is simplistic. But no one is going to lift up the people being left behind by a callous out of control Capitalist system. They are useful fodder in many ways. Wage slaves when they work, soldiers when we go to war, addicts when the depression gets too heavy to bear, suicides, shortened life spans. I would bet on Republicans, presumably led by Trump, taking over in the next two election cycles, all with the blessing of the good old Deep State. 

Actually the depression, unemployment, unaffordable healthcare, and only having access to cheap quality foods are all population control. Just like a virus from a lab, locking people down and destroying livelihoods and a treatment that is looking worse and worse every day. As is piling on the debt, causing hyperinflation, and making the masses poorer. IMO this isn’t accidental to the tyranny. People's minds are firmly on bread and sausage. The more desperate and neurotic they are, the more they’ll look to the state, as they’ve abandoned church and god. I think your point is that this desperation will cause revolution or civil conflict, but, it won’t if it appears an accidental sequence of events. Is a divisive president, a pandemic, a Russian dictator caused war and fuel crisis, supposedly unavoidable inflation, followed by more pandemics. The condition of society isn’t to revolt against the king like the old days, it’s one that Robert F Kennedy warned of. People have apathy, timidity, futility and all they want is distractions or illusions, these are readily supplied by entertainment, and substances, their minds are altered by chemical releases. They’ve created a society with very few stoics, I know people will be irked by me saying this but the West is full of man children. Men that have been encouraged to be weak, that are not growing up and reaching mental maturity, bearing the burden of responsibility that they once did. Now they feel helpless. That’s in reality the best way to avoid revolution. I know you have lots of gun toting Americans who will still fight but, I think the media is that powerful that should there be civil conflict, the elites will be able to direct the anger of these types on the people on the left, is the oligarchs won’t be touched, they’ll be insulated of abroad somewhere while the worst of it plays out. At the end, they’ll come in still offer a solution and be treated as Saviour's. Because the people will just want the chaos to end, they’ll be desperate. IMO it can play out different ways and still suit the objectives and result which the elites want, a scientific dictatorship that ensures their wealth is in perpetuity. 

 

I know I sound the most cynical here. I see this every day. It’s getting beyond obvious if your field of reading is in multiple areas. TBH the hubris of this Davos and WEF types isn’t even really hiding it now; they’re marketing it and selling it as progress. No tyrants will ever tell what they are doing is bad for you. 

 

[Guest]

One for you @Paul Brancato
 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Oh I watched, but of course I already know this was a coup attempt by horrible American traitors.

I'll continue to watch every hearing and look forward to indictments in the future.

"The chairman of the House committee investigating the U.S. Capitol riots said Monday evening that the panel will not refer former President Donald Trump or anyone else to the Justice Department for criminal charges.

Rep. Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi Democrat, said the sole aim of the committee’s investigation is to “tell the facts,” not solicit criminal prosecutions.

“If the Department of Justice looks at it, and assume that there’s something that needs further review, I’m sure they’ll do it,” he said."

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jun/13/bennie-thompson-says-jan-6-committee-wont-refer-do/

I guess the word is Merrick Garland won't press charges against Trump. 

Another guess is if the Jan. 6 actually has something prosecutable, they would not blab it all over a TV show. 

But, hey, maybe Garland will find something prosecutable. 

Interesting look-see ahead. 

[Matt Allison]

There's no need for the J6 Committee to make a formal criminal referral; their report is completely sufficient.

There will be more 1/6 indictments filed as soon as Garland has them ready; Trump will be indicted in Georgia by the end of the month.

[Douglas Caddy]

 

Taiwan Official Warns Supersonic Cruise Missile Can Strike Beijing (thedrive.com)

[Kirk Gallaway]

19 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

This is because, in my view, redistribution of wealth not promoted by the elites themselves but imposed on them by a Democratic government is anathema, and elites clearly have the power to prevent it.

How would they prevent it? To be clear, you're talking about a democratically elected government.

Let's take this scenario. The divide between the rich and poor gets wider and the middle class is marginalized out of existence. A condition that many here I believe maybe yourself have stated has already happened. The populace reaches a consensus that the status quo cannot continue and elects a popular, probably younger candidate and his/her party is swept into Congress and enacts legislation to eliminate tax loopholes and enforces income tax rates similar to the 1950's, (before JFK) and they institute a wealth tax on the mega wealthy.  Similarly they close all tax loopholes on the multi national corporations and make them pay a 25% tax on their earnings.

What would the elites or corporate state do?

[Paul Brancato]

10 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

How would they prevent it? To be clear, you're talking about a democratically elected government.

Let's take this scenario. The divide between the rich and poor gets wider and the middle class is marginalized out of existence. A condition that many here I believe maybe yourself have stated has already happened. The populace reaches a consensus that the status quo cannot continue and elects a popular, probably younger candidate and his/her party is swept into Congress and enacts legislation to eliminate tax loopholes and enforces income tax rates similar to the 1950's, (before JFK) and they institute a wealth tax on the mega wealthy.  Similarly they close all tax loopholes on the multi national corporations and make them pay a 25% tax on their earnings.

What would the elites or corporate state do?

Great ‘what if’. 

[Kirk Gallaway]

I'm asking you, Paul. You asserted that the elites "clearly have the power to prevent it." What power is that?

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

What would the elites or corporate state do?

Give the candidate with those ideas an open top car ride in Dallas?!