Oswald's language abilities and evidence related to his Soviet soujourn (1959-63)

[Steve Thomas]

Which Oswald went to Russia in 1959?

Other than the Bolton Ford incident in 1961, is there any evidence, or any sightings of an Oswald (any Oswald) in the United States between the years 1959 and 1962?

This goes back a question I asked in another thread:

Whose application for Soviet citizenship was denied?

According to the Soviet Government, the citizenship application for Harvey Lee Oswald was denied.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=7986&relPageId=111&search=Dobrynin_December%2011,%201963

p. 111.

In that letter, Dobrynin lays out why the Soviet Government rejected the citizenship application of Harvey Lee Oswald.

The character reference memo which accompanied this denial dated 12/11/61 presents Harvey Lee Oswald as surly, anti-social, and performing unsatisfactory, careless work:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&relPageId=447&search=%22Harvey_Lee%20Oswald%22

Plant Director: D. Yudelevich

Personnel Department Chief: M. Tishkevich

This sounds an awful lot like the man Billy Joe Lord described as accompanying him on the S.S. Marion Lykes in 1959.

He described the Oswald he traveled with for two weeks as "unfriendly, standoffish, and the two of them didn't hit it off".

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10898&search=%22Billy_Joe+Lord%22#relPageId=38&tab=page

Lee Harvey Oswald on the other hand, denied that he ever applied for Soviet citizenship.

Steve Thomas

[Jim Hargrove]

8 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Which Oswald went to Russia in 1959?

Other than the Bolton Ford incident in 1961, is there any evidence, or any sightings of an Oswald (any Oswald) in the United States between the years 1959 and 1962?

Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald went to Russia, where he pretended to speak little Russian, even though he was reasonably fluent.

There are quite a few other examples of American-born LEE Harvey Oswald active in the U.S. while the other Oswald was in the USSR. For example....

Despite the fact that she was publicly threatened with perjury and compelled to officially retract her testimony, Marita Lorenz spoke clearly about meeting LEE Harvey Oswald on numerous occasions while Lee HARVEY Oswald was in Russia!

Mr. Fithian: "Now is it your testimony that the first time you saw Oswald would have been in the camps in the Everglades?"
Marita Lorenz: "The very first time, no. I saw him in the Safehouse and then in the camps."
Mr. Fithian: "And that first meeting at the Safehouse would have been within a year of the Bay of Pigs?"
Marita Lorenz: "I would say 1960."
Mr. Fithian: "It would be some time during 1960?"
Marita Lorenz: "Late 1960."
Mr. Fithian: "All right. Now I want to be sure that I have your dates correct. You said the first meeting of LEE Harvey Oswald, the first time you saw him, was at a Safehouse in Miami in 1960."
Marita Lorenz: "Yes."
Mr. Fithian: "The next time or times that you saw him were during training at a camp in the Everglades, various places in the Everglades, in early 1960, 1961 period?"
Marita Lorenz: "Yes."
Mr. Fithian: "And after that you saw him at the Safehouse the second time?"
Marita Lorenz: "Yes."
Mr. Fithian: "What makes you so sure of the dates. Within a year of the first meeting in the Safehouse and the meeting at the camps in the Everglades, is there anything else you could match that up with?"
Marita Lorenz: "The photographs, the events that took place. the photographs that Alex (Rorke) took. Everywhere we went Alex took pictures."
Mr. Fithian: "This was prior to the Bay of Pigs?"
Marita Lorenz: "Yes, April, 1961, was the Bay of Pigs."
Mr. Fithian: "And you are sure you saw him (Oswald) before April, 1961."
Marita Lorenz: "Yes, because Alex took the pictures."
Mr. Fithian: "And the whole purpose of the training was to somehow participate or help in the Bay of Pigs.
Marita Lorenz: "Yes."
Mr. Fithian: "Did you see Oswald at any time in the intervening two years between early 1961 prior to April of 1961 and the September-October Safehouse meeting in 1963?"
Marita Lorenz: "No, but Frank (Sturgis) kept in touch with me. Alex kept in touch with me."
Mr. Fithian: "Mrs. Lorenz, has your attorney explained what perjury before a congressional committee is all about?"
Marita Lorenz: "That is right, yes."
Mr. Fithian: "In any way do you want to change your testimony on these dates?"
Marita Lorenz: "No, I do not."
Mr. Fithian: "There is adequate documentary evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald did not indeed return from the Soviet Union until June of 1962.
Marita Lorenz: "I don't know about that."
Mr. Fithian: "Therefore you could not have met him at the Safehouse in 1960, you could not have seen him in the Everglades in 1960 and 1961, and you could not have taken a picture in those areas and could not have a picture for the dates of that time."
Marita Lorenz: "No?"
Mr. Fithian: "It is not possible."
Marita Lorenz: "I don't know about that."
Mr. Fithian: "Now can you explain to the committee why you gave us this false information as far as dates?"
Marita Lorenz: "I did not give you false information."
Mr. Fithian: "Mrs. Lorenz, I went over your testimony very carefully a moment ago and you assured me that you met Lee Harvey Oswald prior to the Bay of Pigs."
Marita Lorenz: "I did."
Mr. Fithian: "On two occasions."
Marita Lorenz: "Yes."
Mr. Fithian: "Lee Harvey Oswald was in Russia during that entire period."
Marita Lorenz: "I do not know that. I did not know that. The Lee Harvey Oswald that I met was the same in that picture, the one in the Safehouse. the same one that Frank knows. I do not know where he was according to your information. I do not know. I never read up on anything about these theories that are coming out about him."
Mr. Fithian: "This is not a matter of theory."
Marita Lorenz: "I know I am telling the truth. If you don't want it, that's too bad, you know. I am here to gain nothing, you know. Nothing. Nothing at all. You are trying a homicide investigation that should be solved, you know. Don't dispute me or put me on trial."
Mr. Fithian: "Only if we can have full and truthful testimony."
Marita Lorenz: "You have got it. You have it from me. I don't know about the other people. I have nothing to lose and nothing to hide-nothing.
Mr. Fithian: "And it is your testimony that you are certain that the person you met at the Safehouse and at the camps of the Everglades is the same person that you met in Dallas."
Marita Lorenz: "Yes, it is."
Mr. Fithian: "Do you have any explanation for how we come up with two Lee Harvey Oswalds during this period?"
Marita Lorenz: "I have no explanation. I know the man I met; he was a creep. I didn't like him. I don't have to be here at all. I have nothing to gain.
Mr. Fithian: "Thank you. That is all."

Here’s another example:

FROM: SAC (New York)
TO: Director FBI

Enclosed for each recipient is one copy of a self-explanatory Army communication dated 12.30.63 captioned Harvey Oswald.

Enclosed Army communication alleges that Oswald was in Cuba in the company of Robert Taber, former head of Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC), approximately three weeks after the April 1961, Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba.

Here's the document:

Let’s not forget Hoover’s remark, written on the very day of the assassination, that Oswald “went to Cuba on several occasions but would not tell us what he went to Cuba for."

I’ll bet that memo would have been deep-sixed within days if Hoover hadn’t sent it to so many people!

Additional examples and document links describing Oswald in the U.S. and Russia simultaneously are at the link below (be sure not to miss the link to John A's write-up on the infamous Steve Landesberg incident, a series of events involving one Oswald active on the U.S. East Coast that occurred at the very time the other Oswald was in Russia):

HARVEY IN RUSSIA, LEE IN THE U.S.

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jim Hargrove

[John Butler]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

FROM: SAC (New York)
TO: Director FBI

Enclosed for each recipient is one copy of a self-explanatory Army communication dated 12.30.63 captioned Harvey Oswald.

Enclosed Army communication alleges that Oswald was in Cuba in the company of Robert Taber, former head of Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC), approximately three weeks after the April 1961, Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba.

Here's the document:

This is an interesting document.  David Josephs, in his timeline as this noted as Lee in Cuba in the first week of May, 1961.  It's is roughly the same time as Marita Lorenz says she sees Oswald in April, 1961 before the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Now, the question is which Oswald?  From this document (Robert Taber) and others (Marita Lorenz) are seeing Harvey Oswald as the man who was later at the Dallas Police station.  There is some question about Lorenz.  She probably is describing Lee Oswald rather than Harvey.  And, that's the problem.  How do people who see either Harvey or Lee at one point in time and how they perceive that individual at a later point in time.

My contention is that Harvey and Lee were similar in appearance.  They routinely fooled people by switching out roles or being in the same place at once.  Their appearance was not exactly a one to one such as twins.  Here I think lies the creepy, surly, anti-social behavior that can be said to fit both.  This was the means by which either of the two could avoid people getting to close and perhaps recognizing that two people are involved.  If someone wants to be left alone then folks generally do that and avoid that person in the future.

It's often said that Oswald when greeted would often walk away mumbling something indistinguishable.  He would sit and read a newspaper or something to avoid conversation.  These are also an avoidance routine that would cover one of the Oswalds replacing the other in the same location.  On the day of the assassination I am fairly sure that both Oswalds were at the TSBD.  They could have worked other places the same way.  There is a point to be made for being in the same area.  A similar point can be made for them to be widely separated in geography.  I think they did both according to need.

A big question is where is Lee Oswald from September, 1959 to September, 1960?   Well, that can be expanded for Lee from March, 1959 to September, 1960.       

Marita Lorenz met Lee Oswald before the Bay of Pigs.  Two years or more later would she remember him as Lee Oswald or as Harvey Oswald the man shot at the Dallas Police? 

This is what I think Robert Taber did.  He very well may have met Lee Oswald and years later confused him with Harvey Oswald the man shot at the Dallas Police.  And, that explains some of the Harvey/Lee confusion one runs into.

I have no real evidence to back this up, but some of the behavior in Russian reads as Harvey and other information reads as Lee.  These two knew each other.  I don't think they cared much for other.  However, they probably would have known and studied the others voice, behavior patterns, and mannerisms.  This would be a high priority need for changing roles in their career as a double spy.  So, IMO it would be difficult to tell one from the other any where or in any time.  Separating Harvey from Lee takes a lot of work and evidence, but it can be done.  One persons assumption that this is Lee or this is Harvey needs to be looked at closely.  No one is infallible, well, except maybe the Pope.   

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by John Butler

[Bill Simpich]

Let me address James' two questions:  (1)  What more information would you need as the threshold to be able to identify Oswald as an agent of the United States, as opposed to a "wannabe agent" or an aspiring James Bond? 

A lot more.  As I said in my first post I think he was an asset and a dangle, but I see him as a "wannabe agent", not an agent.

I think we agree on a lot about his role, and don't want to quibble about phrasing.  As you pointed out - at the end of the day, he didn't have a lot of personal "agency".

My point is that he wanted to have a lot of agency - and he tried to act on it.  If you asked him in 1959, I think LHO would tell you that going to the USSR was basically his idea, just like he told Nelson Delgado he wanted to go to Cuba.  He wanted adventure.  He loved the attention.  Even in 1963 - he at least claimed he wanted to go back - and Marina certainly did!

But I think he was manipulated into going in 1959 - he was promised a little spending money, nice hotel rooms in Finland, asked to provide a little "help" while he was there - offer "classified info about the U-2 to the Soviets", that sort of thing.  That could have got him arrested by either side - but he felt he had protection, and he did.  In my mind, he's not an agent.  He's a wannabe agent.  He is not getting paid - he's getting favors.

The CIA used him, yes - you can call him "a creature of the CIA", but I think that exaggerates him.   I would say that because he was intelligent and self-schooled he thought he had more agency then he actually did - but I think he was easily manipulated into going to the USSR rather than to Cuba. 

As a wannabe spy, he was smart enough to hide his knowledge of Russian and felt that he was manipulating the Soviets to a much higher degree.  On the other hand, as the months went on, I think he realized he was in over his head and by mid-1960 started looking for the door to get out.
 

(2)  Would you accept the term asset as an appropriate description of Oswald in the so-called defection of 1959?

Yes, as I've said all along.  I think it's a far better description of what he was doing and how he was manipulated.

James, here is my question to you:  In your opinion, how was Oswald being "coached" prior to his arrival to the USSR?   Any other items besides your useful list below?

• Oswald postured as a Slavophile who played Russian records, read Russian-language publications, and was known by the nickname Oswaldovitch to his fellow Marines in Santa Ana, California.  This posturing established a motivation for the "defection"; Agreed - but I'm not convinced yet there was coaching here - there could have been.

• Oswald's discharge from Marines was conducted under extremely suspicious circumstances in which he claimed hardship to support his mother after a candy bowl landed on her head; Agreed - I think this was  manipulated by outside forces, not LHO - I don't think he set that up.

• Oswald's phony application as a student to the non-existent Albert Schweitzer College in Switzerland was a carefully documented ruse; This one still puzzles me - I think this may have been a Plan B for him if he didn't manage to get into the USSR - he may have thought it was his idea, he needed some college - after reading Evica's book it looks like "more legend being created for LHO" to me, and that he was being manipulated.

• Oswald's route to the Soviet Union taken through Finland miraculously allowed him to enter the country expediently with little bureaucratic hassle; I have written about this extensively, powerful evidence shows that the CIA opened the door for him with an instant visa, absolutely, and I don't think he knew anything other than "there is an easy way for you to get inside" - and that interrupted his trip to Europe and he made a beeline for the USSR.

• Oswald's phony suicide attempt in a Moscow hotel was designed to influence the authorities' decision to allow him to remain in the Soviet Union; yes, it was - but he could have dreamed up this phony attempt himself, it was clearly phony, the wounds were superficial and we agree that the doctor could tell that he understood Russian.

• Oswald's finances in 1959 consisted of military scrip, raising the question of how he could have funded this trip.   His finances were always shaky - I agree he might have been given some money, but it wasn't much.

The points raised above suggest a meticulously choreographed operation that was in the works for a considerable amount of time and that could only have been implemented by the facilitation of the national security network.  

So far, our disagreements are only around emphasis.  I don't see this as meticulously choreographed - I think he was a wannabe spy and adventurer that got a little help along the way.  He was motivated to learn Russian.

If he was a low-level agent, my first pick for him remains ONI, although he clearly got some CIA help - that he may have never known came from CIA.

 

 

 

[John Butler]

5 minutes ago, Bill Simpich said:

Oswald's route to the Soviet Union taken through Finland miraculously allowed him to enter the country expediently with little bureaucratic hassle; I have written about this extensively, powerful evidence shows that the CIA opened the door for him with an instant visa, absolutely, and I don't think he knew anything other than "there is an easy way for you to get inside" - and that interrupted his trip to Europe and he made a beeline for the USSR.

How did Oswald know how to do this?  Was it common knowledge?  Was this information swapped around in the Marine barracks?  Or, was this specialized knowledge that only intelligence folks knew?

This has always been a question that bothered me about Oswald's trip to the Soviet Union.

Another question that has bugged me?  Why take a ship?  Was it cheaper?  Was he conditioned to make long trips by sea in the Marines?  Or, could it have been a period of time was need to make arrangements for Harvey and Lee to be in Europe at the same time.  The Steenbarger interview has Lee Oswald in Germany while Harvey is in Finland.

 

[Bill Simpich]

The purpose of this thread is for an exploration between me and James Norwood on the role of Oswald in the USSR, with others welcome to join in - I'm addressing this note to Jim Hargrove - who I think deserves a lot of thanks for his hard work on the Harvey and Lee question for many years even though I am not convinced by the Harvey and Lee theory.

My request is simple:  Could you hyperlink a lot of the documents on your site?  It would make it so much easier to analyze the points you are making and the arguments you are posing.

Personally, when I go to your site, I am confused almost immediately because I can't see the primary source.

I find myself rejecting the arguments immediately - if I can't see the primary source, I can't establish the context.  What are you including - and what is being left out?

It would be particularly useful in chronologies where "Lee" and "Harvey" are being contrasted - when I see the different addresses fly around, I really want to understand and analyze them for myself, but it's too laborious without being able to point and click.

Please consider it.  Thank you!

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

If Oswald was an asset, or an agent - I think the former - what was Robert Webster? 

[Steve Thomas]

20 minutes ago, Bill Simpich said:

The purpose of this thread is for an exploration between me and James Norwood on the role of Oswald in the USSR, with others welcome to join in

 

Bill or anyone else for that matter,

Did Oswald receive any press from Russian sources on his defection? Was he in the papers or anything?

If he wasn't, that seems kind of odd to me. 

Did they never believe that he was a genuine defector, and so, kept it quiet?

What would be their reasons for keeping it quiet?

Steve Thomas

 

[Steve Thomas]

I've been mulling something over, so I'll just throw it out there.

I'll say up front that I don't have anything to back this up, so if if you jump all over me, you'll probably win; but...

What if Oswald's defection was a Russian operation, and not an American one?

That would explain his knowledge of and ease in entering the Soviet Union by way of Finland, and how he he knew that the only way to get back to Russia in 1963 was by way of Cuba. It would also explain the Soviet's willingness to allow him to return to the U.S. with a new Soviet wife.

Somehow, I just can't reconcile the smiling, happy person in the pictures below being the surly, uncommunicative, anti-social person encountered by Billy Joe Lord, and Oswald's foreman in the Minsk factory. Something just doesn't feel right.

 

Steve Thomas

 

[Bill Simpich]

Steve - Where does Lee Harvey Oswald deny that he ever applied for Soviet citizenship?   That seems like a big deal. 

I think most of us know that LHO filed a request for citizenship to the Supreme Soviet in Oct 61.  Can anyone tell me if it was ever formally granted or denied?  I don't think they ever ruled on it - Webster had his citizenship request to the Supreme Soviet granted within two months.

Oswald's diary states that on 1/4/60 he was given an "identity document for stateless persons".  He accepted this document, despite his disappointment that his citizenship request was not granted.    According to the Soviet defector Yuri Nosenko - who didn't always tell the truth but may have here - a lower echelon within the Soviet leadership - the Presidium of the Supreme Council - simply issued a "residential permit" which allowed Oswald to stay for a specified period of time, which was later renewed.   Webster got in thanks to the Air Force (particularly the Air Force Technical Intelligence, or ATIC) and the CIA working with his employer Henry Rand - see Gary Hill's new book The Other Oswald at p. 63 and elsewhere, he's got all the latest on it.  

My focus is more on how Webster's name was redacted from the Warren Commission documents in Part 2 of  the Twelve Who Built the Oswald Legend - I believe that comparison of Webster and Oswald in 1963 would have led people to realize the role of military intelligence in manipulating LHO.

P.S.  (Steve, I think the reference to HLO in the Dec. 1961 document appears to be a typo - two other references in the translation refer to LHO.  There are other HLO references that seem more significant, at least to me.)

P.P.S.  LHO always bragged throughout his life - all the way to Michael Paine - that he had never met a communist.  Why brag about that?  He makes this statement again in his letter to his brother Robert in Nov. 1959.  That seems like a great way to blow one's cover.

[Bill Simpich]

I committed a typo above - on Oct 59 (not Oct 61) LHO applied for citizenship to the "Surprem Soviet (urgent)" (gotta love it!)   

"I do not have enough money to live here indefintly, or to return to any other country."  Spelling aside, not exactly the way to convince the Supreme Soviet that you should win your case.  It is a good way to make sure you lose your case.

Wikipedia helped me with this one: "The Committee for State Security for the Council of Ministers" (aka the KGB) deems it inadvisable to grant Soviet citizenship to Lee Harvey Oswald."

A 10/21/59 follow-up memo by another undefined body wrote to the Central Committee of the CPSU and agreed with the KGB's recommendation.

However, at some undated point after 11/27/59 the documents indicate that the CPSU Central Committee leadership came to a decision based on a proposal by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the KGB that Oswald "be granted the right of temporary soujourn in the Soviet Union for one year, and that the question of his permanent residency and of his receiving Soviet citizenship be resolved upon the expiration of this period."  

The Central Committee also ordered that LHO was to be provided with employment as an electrician, an apartment, and that the Red Cross & Red Crescent provide him with 700 rubles/month and to allocate 5000 rubles to furnish his apartment. 

The pay, as I understand it, was a little higher than the workers' pay and equivalent to what managers were getting - a pretty sweet deal.

 

[Matt Allison]

A lot of the speculation here seems to rely on the idea that there were two Oswalds, which I don't believe to be the case. I never have and I never will. But I'm interested in discussion about Oswald's language abilities.

[Steve Thomas]

35 minutes ago, Bill Simpich said:

Steve - Where does Lee Harvey Oswald deny that he ever applied for Soviet citizenship?   That seems like a big deal. 

I think most of us know that LHO filed a request for citizenship to the Supreme Soviet in Oct 61.  Can anyone tell me if it was ever formally granted or denied?  I don't think they ever ruled on it - Webster had his citizenship request to the Supreme Soviet granted within two months.

 

Bill,

Taking your second question first:

That's one of my biggest suspicions. Of all the documents Dobrynin provided to the Americans in 1964, what was not included was Oswald's application for Soviet citizenship, nor any written reasons from the Soviets to Oswald on why it was denied.

As far as your first question, Oswald met with the American Embassy officials in Moscow on July 8, 1961 asking them what the holdup was in getting a visa to return to America.

Current Section: CE 977 - Foreign Service dispatch from the American Embassy in Moscow to the Department of State, dated July 11, 1961.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=392&tab=page

p. 378

“He exhibited Soviet internal “stateless” passport... No. 311479 issued by the Moscow City Government on January 14, 1960, which is prima facie evidence that he is regarded by the Soviet authorities as not possessing Soviet citizenship.”

“Oswald stated that despite the wording of the statement which he handed to the Embassy on October 31, 1959 (Embassy dispatch 234, November 2, 1959), he never in fact actually applied for Soviet citizenship.”

Current Section: CE 950 - Report of the Department of State on Lee Harvey Oswald, submitted to the Commission in January 1964.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=307&tab=page

p. 293

“In 1961, he showed a United States consular officer a document issued by the Moscow City Government on January 14, 1960 which indicated that he never was declared a Soviet citizen.”*

See also letter from Walter J. Stoessel, Jr. of the Embassy in Moscow to the Director's Office of Soviet Affairs of the United States Department of State.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95609&relPageId=53&search=%22Walter_J.%20Stoessel,%20Jr%22

He talks of meeting Kudryavtsev of the American Section of the MFA in the airport, who told him that, “Oswald had applied for Soviet citizenship but that ,after considering the application, the Soviet authorities had decided not to approve this application since Oswald seemed to be so unstable.”

“I found this reference to the Soviet handling of his application for citizenship of interest, since I have not found any record of this aspect in our files.”

 

Oswald's “Historic Diary":

Warren Commission Exhibit 24 Vol 16, Pg 94-105

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/historicdiary.htm

Jan 4. (1961) One year after I received the residence document I am called in to the passport office and asked if I want citizenship (Russian). I say no simply extend my residential passport to agree and my document is extended until Jan 4, 1962.

Steve Thomas

 

[James Norwood]

6 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

Let me address James' two questions:  (1)  What more information would you need as the threshold to be able to identify Oswald as an agent of the United States, as opposed to a "wannabe agent" or an aspiring James Bond? 

A lot more.  As I said in my first post I think he was an asset and a dangle, but I see him as a "wannabe agent", not an agent.

I think we agree on a lot about his role, and don't want to quibble about phrasing.  As you pointed out - at the end of the day, he didn't have a lot of personal "agency".

My point is that he wanted to have a lot of agency - and he tried to act on it.  If you asked him in 1959, I think LHO would tell you that going to the USSR was basically his idea, just like he told Nelson Delgado he wanted to go to Cuba.  He wanted adventure.  He loved the attention.  Even in 1963 - he at least claimed he wanted to go back - and Marina certainly did!

Bill,

This post will continue our discussion of Oswald as either a formal asset of the CIA or as "a wannabe agent.”  Over the weekend, I will respond to your question about the coaching in a separate post.

For historians, semantics matter.  At the time of the fiftieth anniversary of the death of JFK, the journalist Peter Savodnik published a book on Oswald that was based on a set of interviews the author had conducted.  I even quoted Savodnik in my article on Oswald's Russian language proficiency.  But the term that Savodnik used for his book title and his thesis was Oswald as an interloper during his stay in the Soviet Union.  Unfortunately, the word interloper completely muddies the waters about Oswald's purpose in leaving the Marines and heading to the Soviet Union in 1959.

I am pleased that we are in accord with the word asset to describe Oswald's connection to the United States intelligence network in his assignment to the Soviet Union.  At the same time, if you refer to Oswald as an asset and then write that he was also a "wannabe agent," your readers will forget the former expression and remember the latter.  And, they will be absolutely confused about Oswald’s purpose in the apparent defection. 

The subject of young Oswald as an aspiring James Bond with a fetish for watching the television series I Led Three Lives was discussed on an Ed Forum thread last May.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26535-about-oswald-by-robert-morrow/

I responded to Doug Caddy by writing that "Oswald did not become involved in counterintelligence by watching the television program I Led Three Lives.  That supposition is based exclusively on hearsay evidence."  Specifically, the hearsay evidence comes from the notoriously unreliable Robert Oswald, who, for decades, threw his "brother" under the bus of history.  To be credible, the premise of Oswald as James Bond would need some attribution in Oswald's own words.  And there exists none.

In the fascinating notes for the speech delivered by Oswald at the Jesuit House of Studies at Spring Hill College near Mobile, Alabama in July, 1963, there would have been the perfect opportunity for Oswald to reveal his longstanding obsession for being a spy.  But, to the contrary, the notes for the speech read more like the memoir of a missionary when Oswald writes that "in going to Russia I have followed the old priciple [sic] 'Thou shall seek the truth and the truth shall make you free [sic] In returning to the U.S., I have done nothing more or less than select the lesser of two evils." (WH Hearings and Exhibits, Vol. XVI, 442).  There is nothing in this speech that suggests that the trip to the Soviet Union was an adventure of any sort, let alone that of an aspiring spy.

In the forum discussion, it was mentioned by Jim DiEugenio, one of the most fastidious of JFK researchers, that Warren Commission apologist Jean Davidson drew upon the meme of I Led Three Lives in her analysis of the young Oswald.  And, sure enough, on p. 65 of Davidson's work of propaganda, Oswald's Game, she writes that, from viewing the television program, the life of "being an outsider and secretly fighting the authorities---would likely have appealed to him."  

So, what I am suggesting is that in using the expression "wannabe agent," you need to support that premise with primary evidence in the words of Oswald himself.  Otherwise, the discourse will be one step removed from the implausible interloper conceit of another Warren Report apologist, Peter Savodnik, who formulates this conclusion in The Interloper:

“It would be more accurate to say that Oswald was his own agent, that he was moved to act by dint of his own inclination.  That inclination was born of a fragmented and peripatetic youth, adolescence, and early adulthood, but ultimately Oswald was self-propelled.  The mysterious and fictional heart of darkness residing somewhere in America did not murder the mythical hero-president.  Oswald did.” (p. 219)

And once we are in the territory of the kind of speculative discourse about Oswald as an interloper or wannabe agent, the response from our readers will be:   "we'll probably never know the truth about the JFK assassination."

[Steve Thomas]

15 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

I committed a typo above - on Oct 59 (not Oct 61) LHO applied for citizenship to the "Surprem Soviet (urgent)" (gotta love it!)   

"I do not have enough money to live here indefintly, or to return to any other country."  Spelling aside, not exactly the way to convince the Supreme Soviet that you should win your case.  It is a good way to make sure you lose your case.

Bill.

I was struck by the phraseology here. He uses it twice in that letter:

 

 

"Return to any other country"? He doesn't say he didn't want to return to the United States. He says he doesn't want to return to any other country.

How many countries was he talking about here?

Steve Thomas