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In researching the April 19, 1995 OKC bombing I've archived many thousands of newspaper reports on that case

In doing so, I've come to rely on a handful of different services for newspaper clippings. Some are actual images of the paper, scanned, other sources provide text only.

Anyhow, my experience with that multi-year research project is that you find a lot of really interesting things in the newspaper. Sometimes you get really good things that you need to follow-up on. Other times, erroneous things, just depends.

I decided that I wanted to check out the newspaper accounts of November 1963 to see what nuggets I might find. 

This is the literally the first newspaper article I found: November 22 1963 Sapulpa, Oklahoma. This report says that Secret Service thought the gunshots came from the "grassy knoll"

I was under the impression the term "grassy knoll" was coined much later or by someone else on a video (a witness, forgot her name). 

They got at least one thing right here, haha:

image.png.8901426e1f9d03222f88ecf62c7473da.png

Here is the link to this paper on newspapers.com

https://www.newspapers.com/image/661892826/

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If anyone has read Bill Simpich's State Secret then you know how the descriptor "5 foot 10, 165 pounds" is important

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter1.html

I found this in a clip from 11/22 ... there it is again, 5 feet 10, 165 pounds.

What is interesting is this is not Oswald's height nor weight, however 5 foot 10, 165 pounds is indeed found in documents about Oswald.

What are the odds that this description as found in CIA files on Oswald miraculously appears in the newspaper on 11/22? 

Had the description actually been based on a person viewing Oswald they would have said 5 foot 9, 130 pounds.

Was the description pulled from a file? 

image.png.b7ceb13da45d7c784e3ce79ad110c83a.png

 

 

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This is interesting

11/22/63 | UPI (wire service) report 

"Officer J.D. Tippit, 38, was slain as he and fellow policeman M.N. McDonald ran into a rear exit of the Texas Theater.

Tippit and MacDonald had received a tip that the assassin of President Kennedy might have gone into the theater"

I speculate that the Tippit murder might have been initially planned to be carried out at the theater.

As you can see the script is already being propagated into the newspaper: "Lee H. Oswald, 24, chairman of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee"

image.png.c86f19288bb82b4accc360cd9593cc43.png

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11/22/63 Associated Press story in the Huntsville Times

Says a Secret Service agent was killed ... also has some oddly specific details "a white man in his mid 20s was arrested in the Riverside section of Fort Worth in the shooting of the policeman. The man, who has black curly hair and who wore a red shirt, denied that he was connected with the assassination of the president."

tG5c8lp.jpg

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35 minutes ago, Richard Booth said:

If anyone has read Bill Simpich's State Secret then you know how the descriptor "5 foot 10, 165 pounds" is important

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter1.html

I found this in a clip from 11/22 ... there it is again, 5 feet 10, 165 pounds.

What is interesting is this is not Oswald's height nor weight, however 5 foot 10, 165 pounds is indeed found in documents about Oswald.

What are the odds that this description as found in CIA files on Oswald miraculously appears in the newspaper on 11/22? 

Had the description actually been based on a person viewing Oswald they would have said 5 foot 9, 130 pounds.

Was the description pulled from a file? 

image.png.b7ceb13da45d7c784e3ce79ad110c83a.png

 

 

Richard,

Even sooner than the newspapers:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zO7LKB7G08D2QPrmIMLlfgxH5XJKbJU_/view?usp=sharing

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51 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

I've always found this suspicious -- this description that doesn't match Oswald, but it was only after I read more and saw that Oswald was described as 5 foot 10 inches 165 pounds in CIA documents that I began to think it even more unusual. 

10/10/63 

"OSWALD IS FIVE FEET TEN INCHES, ONE HUNDRED SIXTY FIVE POUNDS"

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=110013&relPageId=2

 

Edited by Richard Booth
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Baker was close with his affidavit, he said 30 years old, 165 pounds and 5'9"

Except the guy was wearing a brown jacket, and was on the 3rd or 4th floor

Sawyer, who after speaking to Baker at the freight elevators on the 4th floor, announced on Channel 2 a few minutes after speaking to Baker, that the guy they want is 30 years old, 165 pounds and 5'10". This was at 12:43

Where it gets interesting, is that Sawyer said that the witness described the rifle that the suspect was "carrying" as a possibly a Winchester. In other words, it was not just a barrel that was seen, but enough to identify the weapon more accurately. There is no way to judge a person's height and weight from anyone crouching in an upper floor window, but you can if you see someone outside the building "carrying" a rifle.

Talbert then asks Sawyer if the suspect is still in the building or has left. Sawyer responds with "the shots came from this building, it is unknown if he's still there or not, unknown if he was there in the first place". Now, if the person the witness saw was outside the building "carrying" a Winchester, but the witness was unsure of where he came from, Sawyer's response makes sense.

When Sawyer said "unknown if he was there in the first place", that works for the witness seeing the suspect coming from an unknown direction.

When Sawyer said "the shots came from this building, it is unknown if he's still there or not", he's saying that if the suspect the witness saw was not the person firing shots from the building, the person that did fire the shots could be still there ... or not

If we tie in Baker's man on the 3rd or 4th floor with the suspect the witness saw outside carrying a winchester a few minutes later, it could be the same man reported to Sawyer.

Officially, Baker's 3rd or 4th floor man evolved into the 2nd floor Oswald encounter ... and Sawyer's witness was never identified.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Sawyer, who after speaking to Baker at the freight elevators on the 4th floor, announced on Channel 2 a few minutes after speaking to Baker, that the guy they want is 30 years old, 165 pounds and 5'10". This was at 12:43

I could not have said that better.  I have always believed that the description of the suspect came from Baker and his third/4th floor encounter.  Also, the description of the suspect happens to be the same description in Oswald's record is not a coincidence.  There were two Oswalds at the TSBD that day as described by their manner of leaving.  The fellow met on the 3rd/4th floor may very well have been the original Lee Harvey Oswlad.  And, truly this incident fades away and is replaced by Truly's 2nd floor encounter event.

One might even think this description was prepared beforehand to be the suspect's description.  

Edited by John Butler
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6 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

This is interesting

11/22/63 | UPI (wire service) report 

"Officer J.D. Tippit, 38, was slain as he and fellow policeman M.N. McDonald ran into a rear exit of the Texas Theater.

Tippit and MacDonald had received a tip that the assassin of President Kennedy might have gone into the theater"

I speculate that the Tippit murder might have been initially planned to be carried out at the theater.

As you can see the script is already being propagated into the newspaper: "Lee H. Oswald, 24, chairman of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee"

image.png.c86f19288bb82b4accc360cd9593cc43.png

How about this for a what if?  What if this was the way the story was supposed to go?  Why would this news story connect Tippit and McDonald?  Tippit and McDonald receive a tip that the assassin might have gone into the theater?   That's rich.  Who would be the informant and why contact Tippit and McDonald?  Different officers assigned to different duties and areas.  What connects the two? 

This even leads to crazier thoughts.  What if Tippit was killed because he was tasked to kill Oswald and another faction didn't like that idea and killed Tippit.  McDonald proceeds with the Oswald assassination plan in the theater with a throw down weapon.  This was one provided to him in an inoperable condition so Oswald would not be shot.  This inoperable weapon was supplied by the faction that didn't want Oswald killed.  Jack Ruby paid heavily for this.   

Well, IMO there has never been an adequate motive for Tippit being killed.  All this is essentially speculation, but that often leads to looking at things differently.

A throw down weapon is usually one that is not traceable.  But, there are conditions where it is desirable for the weapon to be associated with the suspect.  Hello, Backyard Photos.

Edited by John Butler
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7 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

What are the odds that this description as found in CIA files on Oswald miraculously appears in the newspaper on 11/22?

Richard,

I personally believe that this description is included in a dossier compiled in military intelligence files about a Harvey Lee Oswald. Here's a portion of a cable from the Continental Army Command that went out to Fort McDill in Florida on the evening of the 22nd:

image.png.8ada080ac63c36e09f1cccfec22c3b7a.png

Steve Thomas

 

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2 hours ago, John Butler said:

How about this for a what if?  What if this was the way the story was supposed to go?  Why would this news story connect Tippit and McDonald?  Tippit and McDonald receive a tip that the assassin might have gone into the theater?   That's rich.  Who would be the informant and why contact Tippit and McDonald?  Different officers assigned to different duties and areas.  What connects the two? 

This even leads to crazier thoughts.  What if Tippit was killed because he was tasked to kill Oswald and another faction didn't like that idea and killed Tippit.  McDonald proceeds with the Oswald assassination plan in the theater with a throw down weapon.  This was one provided to him in an inoperable condition so Oswald would not be shot.  This inoperable weapon was supplied by the faction that didn't want Oswald killed.  Jack Ruby paid heavily for this.   

Well, IMO there has never been an adequate motive for Tippit being killed.  All this is essentially speculation, but that often leads to looking at things differently.

A throw down weapon is usually one that is not traceable.  But, there are conditions where it is desirable for the weapon to be associated with the suspect.  Hello, Backyard Photos.

Can someone share DPD officer McDonald's background? Has anyone done a decent research of him?

Curious about his personal background and any segregationist or right wing leanings etc. 

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1 minute ago, Joe Bauer said:

Can someone share DPD officer McDonald's background? Has anyone done a decent research of him?

Curious about his personal background and any segregationist or right wing leanings etc. 

For whatever it is worth... 

I've never done that type of background on him but I did personally know him when I was younger. 

I guess he retired to my hometown, I saw that on an episode of the old TV show "Top Cops." Based on the time frame I believe it aired around the 30th anniversary. Even at a young age I had deep admiration for JFK and after seeing that episode I wanted to talk to the person who arrested Oswald. I contacted him and was to meet and talk with him about his experience and I put it into a report for school. 

After that I continued to visit with him until a few years before his death. For some reason he took a shining to me and I would visit him and his wife often. 

Due to my experience with McDonald I'm doubtful of him having any real involvement with anything like planting a weapon on Oswald. 

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1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

Mark,

Joe Molina.

Steve Thomas

Curious, what could this Joe Molina have said or done in the "years" that the DPD ( and one would assume other police agencies like the FBI ) made him an officially listed and watched threat before and up to JFK's visit?

My guess is someone would have to have said or done something quite dramatic in some extreme political context to be put on such an exclusive ( only one person the the entire Dallas/Fort Worth area ? ) and important JFK threat list?

Were Molina's activities any more suspect or threatening than Oswald's Russia defection and his very public ( downtown New Orleans ) pro-Castro leaflet passing and his N.O. radio and TV appearances where he advocates for Cuba and proclaims is a Marxist?

Oswald's Russian newspaper prescriptions were known by the FBI. They were monitoring him and Marina for months in Irving and even had a file on him that apparently contained something so sensitive that they destroyed it the day or day after Oswald was eliminated by Jackie Kennedy avenging and sometime DPD and FBI informant Jack Ruby.

What did the DPD's monitoring of Joe Molina involve?

Edited by Joe Bauer
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