Jump to content
The Education Forum

The wallet at the Tippit scene: a simpler solution?


Greg Doudna

Recommended Posts

Thanks Bill...

I'm satisfied that is WESTBROOK....   and his being with Morales in Vietnam does add an air of spookiness to the whole matter (pun intended)

Those who read this and can take their knowledge of Westbrook and Croy to the next level will begin to see how out of character for a Captain of Personnel he behaved that day....  even if the photo was manufactured or is not him... we do know that he went to Vietnam as an advisor for the CIA ...

The HSCA asked him about the side door to the 1st floor of the Courts building, which is the closest entrance to Western Union and leads directly to stairs which take you to the basement parking area.. he said neither the DPD or FBI bothered to check that possibility...  HSCA concludes THAT entrance was the most likely one Ruby took... and it turns out "a reserve officer" (ala Croy) relieved the patrolmen by those stairs/elevators so they could direct traffic...

Other than the one Reserve Officer, no one was there who could have seen Ruby come thru the stairs door and walk over to the railinig were CROY says he saw him standing minutes before Oswald came out...  Others confirm Ruby standing by the railings and then moving into position.  again, FWIW.

Joh and I did quite a bit of work to find out what we did.... https://harveyandlee.net/Oswald_Killed/Oswald_Killed.html

The writing is John's with my input on most the images and some of the salient points made...  John sometimes exceeds the bounds of fact with speculation about the pre-planning due to the unavailability of direct evidence.. yet the suppositions are worth considering.

DJ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 96
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

Alot of people came to Tippits aid. The wallet could belong to any of these people.

Gerry... maybe take a little time to go read something about the subject before you express an opinion?

"Could"?

"If" grandma had a hanging set she COULD be my grandpa....  anything in your mind is possible, in reality it becomes a different story with constraints and other items of corroboration...  grandma ain't never going to be grandpa.

Is it really too much to ask that you prepare yourself BEFORE you post to explain what you are trying to say?

No Gerry, the wallet could NOT have belonged to any of those people, otherwise when looked at and commented about it it could be given back to the person who dropped it...

You are aware that Oswald was set up to take the blame for Tippit and JFK...  or do you think this forum exists on Fantasy Island?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, David Josephs said:

You are aware that Oswald was set up to take the blame for Tippit and JFK...  or do you think this forum exists on Fantasy Island?

The notion that there were two Lee Oswalds (and two of his mother, for good measure) certainly exists on Fantasy Island! Do they have multiple Tattoos there as well, just to add the fun and excitement?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/3/2023 at 10:11 AM, David Josephs said:

Thanks Bill...

I'm satisfied that is WESTBROOK....   and his being with Morales in Vietnam does add an air of spookiness to the whole matter (pun intended)

Those who read this and can take their knowledge of Westbrook and Croy to the next level will begin to see how out of character for a Captain of Personnel he behaved that day....  even if the photo was manufactured or is not him... we do know that he went to Vietnam as an advisor for the CIA ...

The HSCA asked him about the side door to the 1st floor of the Courts building, which is the closest entrance to Western Union and leads directly to stairs which take you to the basement parking area.. he said neither the DPD or FBI bothered to check that possibility...  HSCA concludes THAT entrance was the most likely one Ruby took... and it turns out "a reserve officer" (ala Croy) relieved the patrolmen by those stairs/elevators so they could direct traffic...

Other than the one Reserve Officer, no one was there who could have seen Ruby come thru the stairs door and walk over to the railinig were CROY says he saw him standing minutes before Oswald came out...  Others confirm Ruby standing by the railings and then moving into position.  again, FWIW.

Joh and I did quite a bit of work to find out what we did.... https://harveyandlee.net/Oswald_Killed/Oswald_Killed.html

The writing is John's with my input on most the images and some of the salient points made...  John sometimes exceeds the bounds of fact with speculation about the pre-planning due to the unavailability of direct evidence.. yet the suppositions are worth considering.

DJ 

 

James Turner (WBAP-TV Fort Worth) stated that he saw Jack Ruby walking down the Main Street ramp about ten feet from the bottom, less than a minute before Ruby shot Oswald.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

Back to the wallet controversy, Julia Postal reported in February 1964 that when Oswald was arrested in the theatre the arresting officers identified him by his name Oswald.  See:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95742#relPageId=7

At that point she could have been mistaken.  But if her recollection was correct, where would the officers have gotten Oswald's name, other than through the wallet at the Tippit scene, or a crooked DPD cop?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Ollie Curme said:

Back to the wallet controversy, Julia Postal reported in February 1964 that when Oswald was arrested in the theatre the arresting officers identified him by his name Oswald.  See:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95742#relPageId=7

At that point she could have been mistaken.  But if her recollection was correct, where would the officers have gotten Oswald's name, other than through the wallet at the Tippit scene, or a crooked DPD cop?

Hi Ollie.  I discuss Postal at the bottom of this post,  FWIW

I think you may be mistaken about what Julia is reported to have said... especially at the link you provided.

The wallet you talk about was not looked at until in the car on the way back to DPD.
The wallet at the Tippit scene was acknowledged by a number of people.

BOTH wallets are not either of the wallets offered in evidence with ID connecting Oswald to Hidell, yet those are the wallets supposedly containing the incriminating identification.

Just let that sink in.  The connection of Oswald to Hidell thru ID was one of the more egregious collaborations between the DPD and FBI.

CE1986 and 1990.  FBI day 1, FBI day 3.   On day 1 a "photo" of his HIDELL SSS card is the contents of his wallet, not the actual card...  no other Hidell ID mentioned

Sunday Bookout has nothing but photos provided by FRITZ.  Now we have photos of a new HIDELL item, front and back ... that did not exist on Friday.

And both wallets are now gone, replaced by a red one and one with a Marine group photo - which was never an item listed in the wallet's contents other than that specific wallet from Irving...

QUESTION:  why is there a fake wallet at the Tippit scene, how did it get there other than just that day and how does it come to have and obviously faked HIDELL ID?

Greg's basic reasoning that evidence was not created and placed into evidence for the sole purpose of implicating Oswald is kind of absurd on it's face when we can point to numerous areas where this occurs.  Just not here?

"Myers concluding ***a witness*** is wrong cause they they just are is also absurd and too WCR-like for me, thanks.

@Bill Simpich wrote:
 

After years of studying Tippit,  I concluded a few years ago that there were two similar-looking wallets.  Both wallets have a leather flap that snaps over the photo section, with a metal band fixed to its leading edge.  (Dale Myers, With Malice, p. 298)  Both wallets also have a zipper over the cash compartment.
 
One wallet was "found" on the scene by Kenneth Croy, the first officer on the scene, who received it upon arrival from an alleged "unknown witness".   I think Croy brought it with him.  He handed it to his chief Bud Owens, who showed it to ID section chief George Doughty and then to the ranking officer on the scene Pinky Westbrook,.  All this was captured on video, which got broader circulation in the 80s and 90s.
 
The other wallet was found by polygraph chief Paul Bentley while riding with Oswald from the Texas Theatre to the police station
 
I read what you wrote about Barrett.  FBI SA Robert M Barrett was given this by Croy when he retired.  FBI AGENTS, Bill.  FBI SA CLEMMENTS, FBI SA BOOKOUT, FBI SA HOSTY.  Yes, they were all l-i-a-r-s personified. 
 
CroysigningTippitcarphoto-RECOVEREDOSWLADSWALLETcopy.thumb.jpg.df6cedfa4838f9ca552b2904160eabf8.jpg
 
No wallet is mentioned from the Tippit scene by ANYONE despite all the evidence for its existence.  Why do you suppose that is?  
<speculation> Fritz is given 2 wallets that afternoon... Bentley's from the car and the one from Tippit (I think brought to him by Westbrook fwiw) and he knows they have a real problem with 2 wallets with HIDELL.  So one of those wallets becomes one of the wallets listed below on evidence lists/cards "from Irving"  and the group photo is just one of those things that no one questions.  but doesn't belong. <speculation over>
 
The wallet taken in the car with the name HIDELL literally placed in Hill's mouth as he testifies is now THAT assumed wallet.
But it isn't in evidence as the "Wallet taken from Oswald at his Arrest".  You will also not find that in evidence as discussed.
 
Rather than searching around... here is the info.CLEMENTS report of the 22nd with the FBI list of evidence B!-contents of the wallet...  SSS #42-224-39-5321 - HIDELL?  Who has a photo of a card and not the actual card in his wallet... and then if the contents of his wallet was the photo - where did they get the actual card?
 
The actual evidence cards for the wallets in evidence, the famous video capture and the 2 FBI reports on the contents of the wallet from that weekend...
 
I do believe that more was involved than incompetence with the key players we've discussed here right up to the killing of Oswald with the DPD clearing Ruby's way, & Croy basically shielding everyone to Ruby's right, all set in motion when Fritz is notified that Ruby is coming.
 
Both the creation of the patsy and Fritz's "always gets his man" DPD mentality contributes to the activities... as I see it.
 
 
 
133849029_DODcardandSSScardhavesameMinskphoto-DPDdidnotnoticeordidnotseeit-yetisonFBIlistofevidencefromtheWALLET-smaller.thumb.jpg.c1b32afd82c8465266c90e6354ee7e9a.jpg
 
423166713_item114-BrownWalletwithMarineGroupPhoto.jpg.295009041cfbd23c2964b286a4dafa54.jpg
 
484223068_EVIDENCECARDSTATING-BROWNBILLFOLDWITHMARINEPHOTOFOUNDINIRVING-NOARRESTWALLET.thumb.jpeg.bb052eaa18a518913b920eb4043159d3.jpeg
22115834_WalletatTippitscene.thumb.jpg.85fcc77e08b0161912bc2237b86b6079.jpg
 

 

image.thumb.jpeg.4238b0a635dc180388011e75c057a359.jpeg

 

 

What POSTAL said in that report

"Later identified as..."

"We have our man on both counts"

Mrs. POSTAL. They said, "What is going on?" And someone said, "Suspect," and they started in this way, just about that time I got out to the box office, back to the box office, and they stared screaming profuse language and----"Kill the so-and-so," and trying to get to him, and this and that and the officers were trying to hold on to Oswald----when I say, "Oswald," that man, because as I said, I didn't know who he was at that time and they was trying to hold him, because he was putting up a struggle, and then trying to keep the public off, and on the way to the car, parked right out front, one of the officers was----at that time I thought he was putting his hat on the man's face to try to keep the public from grabbing him by the hair, but I later read in the paper it was to cover his face and then he got him in the ear, and all bedlam, so far as the public, broke.

Mr. BALL. Now, was it after Oswald, the man brought out on----out of the theatre was taken away in the car that the officer called and said, "I'm sure we have got our man---- "?
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir; that officer came out of the theatre and grabbed at the phone and made the call about simultaneously as they were bringing Oswald out.

 

img_95742_7_300.png

img_95742_8_300.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I believe I know whose wallet it was.  And it was someone hiding in plain sight, right here on this thread.  Researchers may have been thrown off the track thanks to references like this in Myers' "With Malice":  "Scoggins later testified that he didn't talk to police... after returning to the scene" with Callaway (p303).  And indeed Scoggins did testify, "I contacted my supervisor, and they wanted me to come into the office and make a statement, and so I did... the cab company.  One of the supervisors got a statement of it, and he asked me, did the police, did I give them a statement, and I told him no, because... and he said, 'Well, why didn't you?'.  I said, 'They didn't ask me.  They talked with everybody else'."  Hence, Myers' "he didn't talk to police." (Hearings v3p332)  

Myers was apparently satisfied and stopped right there as he looked over Scoggins' testimony.  If he had ventured just five pages further, he would have come across this surprising passage:  "I saw [Mrs. Markham] talking to the policemen after I came back... I had got in the car and toured the neighborhood, and then the policemen came along, and I left my cab setting down there and got in a car with them and left the scene." (p337)  

Scoggins, then, actually gives Myers two choices re his actions just after returning to the Tippit scene.  Which version is the right one?  Double checking.  Myers has Scoggins and Callaway returning to the scene about 1:23 (p385)  So, in Version One, Scoggins would have left for the office in his cab about 1:25.  Meanwhile, in Version Two, FBI agent Robert Barrett arrives at the Tippit scene--photo of that on page 155--at 1:42.  Myers:  "According to Barrett, upon his arrival in Oak Cliff he parked across from Scoggins' cab near Tenth & Patton..." (p288)  Myers makes no comment on this contradiction of Version One.  If the latter was on the money, Scoggins' cab would hardly still have been there at 1:42.  

More substantiation of Version Two:  Callaway re the cab ride with Scoggins:  "So I went with Scoggins in the taxicab, went up to 10th, Crawford, from Crawford up to Jefferson, and down Jefferson to Beckley. And we turned on Beckley." (v3p354)  Myers:  "On one of the side streets just east of Beckley private security officer Ken Holmes & his companion Bill Wheless caught up with the cab & forced it to a stop."  (p169, WM 2nd ed.)  So the Scoggins-Callaway chase was stopped near Beckley.

At 1:26, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill radioed:  "I'm at 12th & Beckley now.  I have a man in the car with me that can identify the suspect..." (DPD radio logs)

Hill, then, was one of the "policemen" that Scoggins "left the scene" with.  And Scoggins directed him to the location where he and Callaway had been intercepted.  He had been continuing the chase.  

The wallet.  DPD Sgt. Kenneth Croy:  "There was a report that a cab driver had picked up Tippit's gun and had left, presumably.  They don't know whether he was the one that had shot Tippit..." (v12p202)  Certainly, if Scoggins was, at first, wrongly suspected of being the shooter, the police would have wanted to see his wallet.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Donald Willis said:


I believe I know whose wallet it was.  And it was someone hiding in plain sight, right here on this thread.  Researchers may have been thrown off the track thanks to references like this in Myers' "With Malice":  "Scoggins later testified that he didn't talk to police... after returning to the scene" with Callaway (p303).  And indeed Scoggins did testify, "I contacted my supervisor, and they wanted me to come into the office and make a statement, and so I did... the cab company.  One of the supervisors got a statement of it, and he asked me, did the police, did I give them a statement, and I told him no, because... and he said, 'Well, why didn't you?'.  I said, 'They didn't ask me.  They talked with everybody else'."  Hence, Myers' "he didn't talk to police." (Hearings v3p332)  

Myers was apparently satisfied and stopped right there as he looked over Scoggins' testimony.  If he had ventured just five pages further, he would have come across this surprising passage:  "I saw [Mrs. Markham] talking to the policemen after I came back... I had got in the car and toured the neighborhood, and then the policemen came along, and I left my cab setting down there and got in a car with them and left the scene." (p337)  

Scoggins, then, actually gives Myers two choices re his actions just after returning to the Tippit scene.  Which version is the right one?  Double checking.  Myers has Scoggins and Callaway returning to the scene about 1:23 (p385)  So, in Version One, Scoggins would have left for the office in his cab about 1:25.  Meanwhile, in Version Two, FBI agent Robert Barrett arrives at the Tippit scene--photo of that on page 155--at 1:42.  Myers:  "According to Barrett, upon his arrival in Oak Cliff he parked across from Scoggins' cab near Tenth & Patton..." (p288)  Myers makes no comment on this contradiction of Version One.  If the latter was on the money, Scoggins' cab would hardly still have been there at 1:42.  

More substantiation of Version Two:  Callaway re the cab ride with Scoggins:  "So I went with Scoggins in the taxicab, went up to 10th, Crawford, from Crawford up to Jefferson, and down Jefferson to Beckley. And we turned on Beckley." (v3p354)  Myers:  "On one of the side streets just east of Beckley private security officer Ken Holmes & his companion Bill Wheless caught up with the cab & forced it to a stop."  (p169, WM 2nd ed.)  So the Scoggins-Callaway chase was stopped near Beckley.

At 1:26, DPD Sgt. Gerald Hill radioed:  "I'm at 12th & Beckley now.  I have a man in the car with me that can identify the suspect..." (DPD radio logs)

Hill, then, was one of the "policemen" that Scoggins "left the scene" with.  And Scoggins directed him to the location where he and Callaway had been intercepted.  He had been continuing the chase.  

The wallet.  DPD Sgt. Kenneth Croy:  "There was a report that a cab driver had picked up Tippit's gun and had left, presumably.  They don't know whether he was the one that had shot Tippit..." (v12p202)  Certainly, if Scoggins was, at first, wrongly suspected of being the shooter, the police would have wanted to see his wallet.  

Very interesting Donald.

My main problem is the detail of police asking to see the wallet, as opposed to asking to see identification (e.g. driver's license).

Bill Simpich I think made the point that officers don't ask for wallets, and might even be reluctant to accept one if a witness offered to hand them one (which is not normally what a person would do when asked by police to produce identification).

Yet, there is that WFAA film of holding officer Tippit's revolver and a wallet at the same time.

The only reconstruction I can see that makes sense is to connect the wallet with Tippit's revolver, and we know Tippit's revolver was handed to Croy by Kenneth Holmes, Jr., upon Holmes' return to the scene of the crime after divesting Callaway of Tippit's revolver at gunpoint (according to Holmes, and with a bit of obfuscation, somewhat confirmed by Callaway). 

Holmes at the point he was stopping Scoggins and Callaway, was suspecting them of being the killers of Tippit. Scoggins and Callaway were quickly cleared, but in the real-time of the moment, that is what Holmes suspected, and with reasonable grounds.

That is the mechanism that explains that it was a wallet, and not simply routine identification, which was turned in by Holmes along with the Tippit revolver to officer Croy, and then filmed together in officers' hands by the WFAA footage.

Holmes not only took Tippit's revolver from Callaway, but demanded his wallet, or else demanded identification (this happened at gunpoint according to Holmes; Callaway confirms the confrontation though not the gunpoint detail), and Callaway under stress and pressure of the moment, simply handed over his entire wallet. (Callaway knows he is innocent and has nothing to hide.)

This explains everything: upon clearing Callaway, the wallet would be returned to him with no further interest in the wallet. That is why nothing about that wallet turns up in any report.

As for Scoggins telling of going away with "the policeman", I believe that is a reference to Callaway, not Hill. Callaway was not a police officer, but from Scoggins WC testimony, he thought Callaway was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Risky business putting faith in anything attributed to either Callaway or Scoggins. Let's start with the route taken by Scoggins' cab. In two reports 11 days apart Callaway specified two distinctly different routes.

1. DPD (11/22/63) -- We got into his cab, number 213 and drove up Patton to Jefferson and looked all around, but did not see him.
2. SS (12/3/63) -- We turned west on 10th and south on Crawford to Jefferson and then west on Jefferson to Beckley where we turned north.

Scoggins said they went in another direction entirely.

SS (12/2/63) -- We proceeded north on Patton and possibly turned west on 10th. We cruised an area north of 10th street looking for the man I had seen, but we did not see him. When we left the intersection of 10th and Patton we did not go to Patton and Jefferson, but went in a northerly direction which would be opposite from the intersection of Patton and Jefferson streets.

The only cardinal point of agreement between them was that they did not go east.

Scoggins said the man who entered his cab was young and looked like a cop. This does not describe Callaway, who was also unknown to Harold Russell. He worked across Jefferson from Dootch Motors, followed Callaway to the crime scene, and did not recognize him as the man who grabbed Tippit's gun.

Just as surprising is that Scoggins, who frequented the dominoes club across the street from Dootch Motors (the corner of the porch is visible in CR 630), and Callaway did not know each other at the scene. Scoggins never identified Callaway, who eventually named Scoggins on 3/26/64 in his WC testimony [3H354], one month after telling the FBI "that he never learned the identity of this cab driver..."

Myers' cinematic car chase & confrontation involving Holmes Sr & Wheless is dubious. It appeared in print after both leading character (Holmes Sr) & source (Holmes Jr) were dead. Callaway told none of DPD, SS, FBI or WC about this encounter. Scoggins hinted at something like it to the FBI & WC, but the two versions are inconsistent with both Myers' tale and each other.

If that's not messy enough, there is another more prosaic account of the same event. It appears in McBride's Into the Nightmare, based on an interview with Greg Lowrey.

Quote

Lowrey told me that when Callaway returned to the killing site, he was stopped by Ken Holmes, Sr., the father of the future assassination researcher who often worked with Lowrey in investigating this very case. The senior Holmes was in a station wagon returning from a hunting with some friends (they had a bunch of rifles in the vehicle) when they came upon the commotion. The revolver-toting tough guy Callaway looked like a potential suspect to Holmes and his friends. "Callaway came back to the scene and had a heated conversation with Mr. Holmes and the guys riding with him," said Lowrey. "One was with the Dallas Police Department. They disarmed him. Callaway got pissed." [470]

However researchers may wish to thresh this out, I'm sensing a whopper of a red herring.

Edited by Michael Kalin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Michael -- There are, yes, reasons to question the testimony of both Scoggins and Callaway.  The latter seemed only too eager to get along with the police, and to badmouth both Scoggins & Benavides.  While Scoggins was compromised by the apparent fact that he had seen the killer and knew that it wasn't Oswald.  Hence the story--which I believe he was spoon-fed--that he didn't stay at the scene and talk to police.  That was supposed to be the explanation as to why he didn't attend any of the Friday lineups--the cops couldn't get in touch with him.  But, as I noted, there was a follow-up by Scoggins in his testimony, in which he went with one or two cops in a 2nd (or 3rd) search for the killer.  And that is supported by the FBI guy Barrett's seeing that Scoggins' cab was still there some 15 minutes after it would have been had he left for the taxi office immediately after returning to the scene with Callaway.  

Note that, in Scoggins testimony, there is an off-record conference by his interlocutors just after Version Two of his return to the scene.  But there was no on-record mention of what was said, or comment on Scoggins' contradictory testimony here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Very interesting Donald.

My main problem is the detail of police asking to see the wallet, as opposed to asking to see identification (e.g. driver's license).

Bill Simpich I think made the point that officers don't ask for wallets, and might even be reluctant to accept one if a witness offered to hand them one (which is not normally what a person would do when asked by police to produce identification).

Yet, there is that WFAA film of holding officer Tippit's revolver and a wallet at the same time.

The only reconstruction I can see that makes sense is to connect the wallet with Tippit's revolver, and we know Tippit's revolver was handed to Croy by Kenneth Holmes, Jr., upon Holmes' return to the scene of the crime after divesting Callaway of Tippit's revolver at gunpoint (according to Holmes, and with a bit of obfuscation, somewhat confirmed by Callaway). 

Holmes at the point he was stopping Scoggins and Callaway, was suspecting them of being the killers of Tippit. Scoggins and Callaway were quickly cleared, but in the real-time of the moment, that is what Holmes suspected, and with reasonable grounds.

That is the mechanism that explains that it was a wallet, and not simply routine identification, which was turned in by Holmes along with the Tippit revolver to officer Croy, and then filmed together in officers' hands by the WFAA footage.

Holmes not only took Tippit's revolver from Callaway, but demanded his wallet, or else demanded identification (this happened at gunpoint according to Holmes; Callaway confirms the confrontation though not the gunpoint detail), and Callaway under stress and pressure of the moment, simply handed over his entire wallet. (Callaway knows he is innocent and has nothing to hide.)

This explains everything: upon clearing Callaway, the wallet would be returned to him with no further interest in the wallet. That is why nothing about that wallet turns up in any report.

As for Scoggins telling of going away with "the policeman", I believe that is a reference to Callaway, not Hill. Callaway was not a police officer, but from Scoggins WC testimony, he thought Callaway was.

Scoggins' reference to Callaway comes just before this:  "I had got in the car and toured the neighborhood [that would be with CALLAWAY], and THEN the policemen came along, and I left my cab setting down there & got in a car with them & left the scene."  That would be with HILL.  Two different rides.

And Scoggins was suspected, before any rides with anyone, of being the killer:  Sgt. Croy testified that maybe a "cab driver had picked up Tippit's gun... They don't know whether he was the one that had shot Tippit."  That would be why the police wanted *Scoggins'* wallet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Donald Willis said:

Scoggins' reference to Callaway comes just before this:  "I had got in the car and toured the neighborhood [that would be with CALLAWAY], and THEN the policemen came along, and I left my cab setting down there & got in a car with them & left the scene."  That would be with HILL.  Two different rides.

And Scoggins was suspected, before any rides with anyone, of being the killer:  Sgt. Croy testified that maybe a "cab driver had picked up Tippit's gun... They don't know whether he was the one that had shot Tippit."  That would be why the police wanted *Scoggins'* wallet.

Good points on your second paragraph Donald. Maybe you're right.

On the criterion that the wallet is associated with the Tippit revolver (because it is so in the WFAA footage), Scoggins fits that as well as Callaway and Holmes, there at the handover of the Tippit revolver to Croy. So Scoggins is at the right time and place such that it could be his.

And if there was initial police suspicion of Scoggins as a possible suspect--as the quote from Croy says, if Croy has that right--could that cause police to, what, maybe even frisk him and/or take his wallet from his person to look through? To see what was there, on a possible suspect?

I have no idea whether that would even be technically legal or was usual police procedure, but this was 1963 and Dallas and police arriving to a fallen officer with no idea what happened ... could be. Officers took Oswald's wallet out of his pocket in the patrol car driving from the Texas Theatre, so there's a parallel to officers holding someone's wallet in their hands, going through it looking for ID or whatever else was there.

Maybe I've been looking at the wrong guy, Callaway, when it was the other one, the driver, Scoggins, whose wallet that was when they returned with Tippit's revolver?

It hangs together, makes sense. I'm not sure Callaway is excluded but I can see it now with Scoggins as easily as Callaway at this point, thanks to you. Excellent bringing that out! Thanks!!!

~ ~ ~

Separately, I think the part about Scoggins taking off in a police car after returning from the excursion with Callaway and the Tippit revolver--I think that is a mistaken interpretation of the sense of Scoggins' meaning in his WC testimony in the quotation you give. 

I rechecked Gerald Hill's WC testimony and he doesn't say anything about giving Scoggins a ride (Hill did not have a patrol car of his own there as I read it). And there is Scoggins' denial. Below is the quotation you cite, with attention to the second of three bolded lines below. As I read it, I don't think Scoggins is saying he went off with a police officer after he returned with Callaway. He is trying to explain when he saw Mrs. Markham talking to a police officer. That was after he returned with Callaway to the scene. 

I agree its a little confusing in the second bolded line but I am reading that as a restatement of the first and the third bolded lines, three ways of saying the same thing, all followed by (his point he is trying to say) he saw Helen Markham talking to an officer after that one thing told three ways. 

So I don't think its correct that Scoggins got in a police car for a second trip looking for the fleeing gunman, and that police, such as Hill, covered up that they drove Scoggins around. Its just a misunderstanding.

Mr. BELIN. Before you saw Mrs. Markham the other day, did you ever recognize her as having seen her from the time of the Tippit shooting at all or not? 
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes, I saw her down there talking to the policemen after I came back. You see, I saw her talking to them. 
Mr. BELIN. You never actually saw her standing on the street, did you? 
Mr. SCOGGINS. I never actually observed her there. 
Mr. BELIN. All right. 
Mr. DULLES. When you say, "I came back" is that when you got into your car? 
Mr. SCOGGINS. After I had got in the car and toured the neighborhood and then the policemen came along and I left my cab setting down there and got in a car with them and left the scene. 
Mr. DULLES. At what stage did you see Mrs. Markham? 
Mr. SCOGGINS. After I had gotten back up there. After I had drove around in the neighborhood looking for Oswald or looking for this guy. 
Mr. DULLES. It was after that? 
Mr. SCOGGINS. It was after that. 
(Discussion off the record.)  
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...