John Newman's 2020 Presentation on ACSI and Veciana

[David Boylan]

Dr John Newman - The CIA, the Army, and the Pentagon: The Veciana Misdirection 3.0 - YouTube

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, David Boylan said:

Dr John Newman - The CIA, the Army, and the Pentagon: The Veciana Misdirection 3.0 - YouTube

I look forward to watching this. Thanks for posting. 

[Paul Brancato]

21 hours ago, David Boylan said:

Dr John Newman - The CIA, the Army, and the Pentagon: The Veciana Misdirection 3.0 - YouTube

Thank you. It’s about time someone mentioned Lemnitzer’s access to the Gladio network. I’m very glad that he is firmly on Newman’s radar. 

[Benjamin Cole]

From John Newman's 2008 book Oswald and the CIA :

"It is now apparent that the World War III pretext for a national security cover-up was built into the fabric of the plot to assassinate President Kennedy. The plot required that Oswald be maneuvered into place in Mexico City and his activities there carefully monitored, controlled, and, if necessary, embellished and choreographed. the plot required that, prior to 22 November, Oswald's profile at CIA HQS and the Mexico station be lowered; his 201 file had to be manipulated and restricted from incoming traffic on his Cuban activities. The plot required that, when the story from Mexico City arrived at HQS, its significance would not be understood by those responsible for reacting to it. Finally, the plot required that, on 22 November, Oswald's CIA files would establish his connection to Castro and the Kremlin.

The person who designed this plot had to have access to all of the information on Oswald at CIA HQS. The person who designed this plot had to have the authority to alter how information on Oswald was kept at CIA HQS. The person who designed this plot had the authority to alter how information on Oswald was kept at CIA HQS. The person who designed this plot had to have access to project TUMBLEWEED, the sensitive joint agency operation against the KGB assassin, Valery Kostikov. The person who designed this plot had the authority to instigate a counterintelligence operation in the Cuban affairs staff (SAS) at CIA HQS. In my view, there is only one person whose hands fit into these gloves: James Jesus Angleton, Chief of CIA's Counterintelligence Staff."

---30---

There is plenty more in that excellent book.  I am not sure what direction Newman is going now, but he seems to be suggesting military intelligence, but perhaps not the CIA, assassinated JFK. 

So...if we follow Newman...the CIA built up the LOH legend, used him as a dangle, an asset...but then military intelligence set LOH up as a patsy, and implemented a military-style ambush on JFK? 

Is this jelling? 

Well, we will see what Newman comes up with. 

 

[Paul Brancato]

Did this presentation make you reconsider Phillips connection to Oswald? There is Mexico City evidence that Phillips was part of incriminating LHO as a Cuban or Soviet agent, possibly setting him up as a patsy. But there is no reason to think he met Oswald or ran him. That was a somewhat logical conclusion until Newman got down in the weeds and dug up a wealth of documents (he and a few other intrepid researchers like Malcom Blunt have been figuring out how to actually read Intelligence documents, which are notoriously difficult to parse because of multiple pseudonyms and aliases and obscured tracking pathways through the system). I saw him in action at a conference two years ago in SF, which Jim D graciously invited me to attend. Once we let go of Gaeton Fonzi’s well meant research into Phillips/Bishop and realize that Alpha 66 was working for Army Intelligence not CIA, something kept hidden from Fonzi and others deliberately by Veciana, and climb out of that long rabbit hole we can see clearly the role of Lansdale, on ‘loan’ from CIA to Army intelligence ACSI.
Benjamin - you are right - Newman has come a long way since he wrote that first book. 
There are some interesting threads here on Army Intelligence. I know you’ve worked hard on your theory but it was clearly based on DAP running Oswald, and Oswald somehow being more than ‘just a patsy’. Newman makes a point of saying that killing was the province of the military. JFK himself was worried about a military junta, his JCS, enough so that he asked Frankenheimer to make 7 Days in May into a movie and let him film some of it in the WH. 
One more thing I like to point out - and Lansdale is a perfect example of this - there is no hard line in the sand between CIA and MI. 

[David Boylan]

For those you that like to see the raw data, here's some.

Colonel Hubbard aka Patrick Harris, Veciana's ACSI handler- showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

Harris/Hubbard - showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

DOD files - 180-10104-10394.tif (theblackvault.com)

showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

Autoboat - showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

Veciana's boat - showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

ACSI asset Modesto Orozco. Doc is from Ted Shackley (Andrew Reuteman pseudo) Notice that "Torres" was working for the Pentagon. Was this Bernado de Torres?

showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

 

[Cliff Varnell]

If Phillips never met Veciana how was it that Veciana's composite sketch of Maurice Bishop was ID'd by Phillips' niece as Phillips?

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Cliff Varnell

[David Boylan]

9 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

If Phillips never met Veciana how was it that Veciana's composite sketch of Maurice Bishop was ID'd by Phillips' niece as Phillips?

 

 

Cliff, this whole doc is worth a close read. Hubbard said that Owen Darnell (ACSI source) also resembled the Bishop sketch. Veciana would stay at Darnell's apt in San Juan.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=148863#relPageId=16&tab=page

I don't believe that Darnell was Bishop though. Phillips also thought the sketch looked like him (Phillips).

[Adam Johnson]

Amazing effort by Dr. NEWMAN...

So we have Lemnitzer and Lemay and possibly one other JCS member agreeing JFK has to go in early or mid '62 they order Ed Lansdale to plan the hit with the goal of pinning it on Russia.

Angelton is playing his mole hunt with Oswald and somehow either Angelton, Harvey or Helms spills info on Oswald to Landsdale.

Landsdale then decides to use military intelligence officers disguised as CIA to manoeuvre Oswald to appear connected to Castro and the Soviets. Once ship dipped the MI officers get Oswald into place near the chosen ambush site, this is how they can pin the assassination on Cuba/Russia.

This will remove Kennedy and get public opinion on side to attack Cuba knowing full well that Russia will make some kind of measured strike against US forces to defend Cuba. Once Russia makes that move the JCS Hawks can then launch a nuclear attack and annihilate Russia.

Would Landsdale then possibly attempt to create another backup plan to achive his goal of pinning the assassination on Cuba/Russia and use some anti-castro Cubans to send in as a compartmentalised hit team?

He would know the TSBD was his Oswald frame location could he be so calculating as to set up the DalTex as a second firing site and place Anti Castro Cubans in there with a military sniper team on a different floor to guarantee a successful shot from that building. 

This would explain why David Morales who worked the anti Castro Cubans believed his guys were responsible for hitting JFK.

[Benjamin Cole]

8 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Did this presentation make you reconsider Phillips connection to Oswald? There is Mexico City evidence that Phillips was part of incriminating LHO as a Cuban or Soviet agent, possibly setting him up as a patsy. But there is no reason to think he met Oswald or ran him. That was a somewhat logical conclusion until Newman got down in the weeds and dug up a wealth of documents (he and a few other intrepid researchers like Malcom Blunt have been figuring out how to actually read Intelligence documents, which are notoriously difficult to parse because of multiple pseudonyms and aliases and obscured tracking pathways through the system). I saw him in action at a conference two years ago in SF, which Jim D graciously invited me to attend. Once we let go of Gaeton Fonzi’s well meant research into Phillips/Bishop and realize that Alpha 66 was working for Army Intelligence not CIA, something kept hidden from Fonzi and others deliberately by Veciana, and climb out of that long rabbit hole we can see clearly the role of Lansdale, on ‘loan’ from CIA to Army intelligence ACSI.
Benjamin - you are right - Newman has come a long way since he wrote that first book. 
There are some interesting threads here on Army Intelligence. I know you’ve worked hard on your theory but it was clearly based on DAP running Oswald, and Oswald somehow being more than ‘just a patsy’. Newman makes a point of saying that killing was the province of the military. JFK himself was worried about a military junta, his JCS, enough so that he asked Frankenheimer to make 7 Days in May into a movie and let him film some of it in the WH. 
One more thing I like to point out - and Lansdale is a perfect example of this - there is no hard line in the sand between CIA and MI. 

Paul B--

Excellent line of inquiry you present.

And my sagacious answer: "Well....not sure." 

Can we simply discount all the excellent work John Newman (and others) have done in establishing that LOH was an asset being run by the CIA? Those observations still hold water, no? 

Certainly James Angleton knew Phillips and of LOH. Certainly Phillips was active in the exile, anti-Castro movement, as was LOH.  

OK, let us grant that at some point in the early 1960s, Veciana had a falling out with the CIA, and switched over to working with Army intelligence (though some researchers contend he still worked for both, unique among assets). 

But does that mean LOH stopped working with the CIA? No. LOH remained a CIA asset. 

Does the Veciana-CIA falling out prevent Phillips from working with LOH? No.

Even more....would a Veciana-CIA falling out mean Veciana would never meet again with Phillips (Bishop)? There are formal organization line-charts and rules, and then there are guys who still meet informally and talk. 

Is there no connection between LOH and Phillips? Seems likely there was a connection, as both LOH and Phillips were so active in the same circles. 

Actually, whether Veciana did, or did not meet, Phillips in Dallas in late August-early September is not so vital to my version of events. 

For that matter, someone besides Phillips at the CIA could have put LOH up to a false-flag fake assassination attempt on JFK, which was then leaked and piggy-backed on by Cuban exiles, who fired in earnest (Del Valle). I suspect it was PR guru Phillips, from his final statement to Kevin Walsh (elements of the CIA did it), and his confessional, unpublished last manuscript.  

John Newman is a titan among researchers. But he seemed almost peevish in his presentation in his vilification of Veciana. He accused Veciana of stealing from the CIA. Then, this turns out to be $600 of explosives, that Veciana may have used in other, non-CIA, anti-Castro missions. 

As I say, we will have to wait for Newman's work to come out. I will repeat myself, and say I am leery of any assassination plot that has dozens of actors, and was carried out under the formal aegis of the CIA or the Pentagon. 

After the fact, yes, many (all government employees, and most prominent members of the media) followed orders, and joined the "LOH is a leftie-loner-loser" story line, and "but we have to avoid WWIII." 

Newman contends those story lines were planted by Angleton before the assassination. 

My version holds water, yet has but two, and possibly three witting actors. It is more plausible.

That does not make my story line the truth---it just makes it more plausible. 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Benjamin Cole
typos

[Benjamin Cole]

20 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Paul B--

Excellent line of inquiry you present.

And my sagacious answer: "Well....not sure." 

Can we simply discount all the excellent work John Newman (and others) have done in establishing that LOH was an asset being run by the CIA? Those observations still hold water, no? 

Certainly James Angleton knew Phillips and of LOH. Certainly Phillips was active in the exile, anti-Castro movement, as was LOH.  

OK, let us grant that at some point in the early 1960s, Veciana had a falling out with the CIA, and switched over to working with Army intelligence (though some researchers contend he still worked for both, unique among assets). 

But does that mean LOH stopped working with the CIA? No. LOH remained a CIA asset. 

Does the Veciana-CIA falling out prevent Phillips from working with LOH? No.

Even more....would a Veciana-CIA falling out mean Veciana would never meet again with Phillips (Bishop)? There are formal organization line-charts and rules, and then there are guys who still meet informally and talk. 

Is there no connection between LOH and Phillips? Seems likely there was a connection, as both LOH and Phillips were so active in the same circles. 

Actually, whether Veciana did, or did not meet, Phillips in Dallas in late August-early September is not so vital to my version of events. 

For that matter, someone besides Phillips at the CIA could have put LOH up to a false-flag fake assassination attempt on JFK, which was then leaked and piggy-backed on by Cuban exiles, who fired in earnest (Del Valle). I suspect it was PR guru Phillips, from his final statement to Kevin Walsh (elements of the CIA did it), and his confessional, unpublished last manuscript.  

John Newman is a titan among researchers. But he seemed almost peevish in his presentation in his vilification of Veciana. He accused Veciana of stealing from the CIA. Then, this turns out to be $600 of explosives, that Veciana may have used in other, non-CIA, anti-Castro missions. 

As I say, we will have to wait for Newman's work to come out. I will repeat myself, and say I am leery of any assassination plot that has dozens of actors, and was carried out under the formal aegis of the CIA or the Pentagon. 

After the fact, yes, many (all government employees, and most prominent members of the media) followed orders, and joined the "LOH is a leftie-loner-loser" story line, and "but we have to avoid WWIII." 

Newman contends those story lines were planted by Angleton before the assassination. 

My version holds water, yet has but two, and possibly three witting actors. It is more plausible.

That does not make my story line the truth---it just makes it more plausible. 

 

 

Add on (sorry).

OK, let us reason this out:

Let us posit LOH is a mere, unknowing inert patsy on Nov. 22, set up by Army intel. His career as CIA asset and government informant has petered out, and he is but a warehouseman, working on sorting and packing books in the TSBD. 

So, LOH is the lunchroom buying a Coke, when JFK is shot (this is odd, as LOH was interested in politics, and could be expected to watch the motorcade, but let that go). LOH hears gunshots, but has no idea what has happened. Might be a common street shooting, might be firecrackers, or car backfire. 

Next thing LOH knows, Dallas motor cop Marion Baker is pointing a gun at him. Ray Truly says LOH is one of our ours, and Baker proceeds up the stairs past the clueless LOH.

LOH wanders outside, then reasonably deduces something serious has happened, and then, from all the commotion, that JFK was shot. But by who? A thug seeking glory? By an angry right-wing nut? A disgruntled Secret Service man who lost his mind? The innocent, inert LOH would not know. 

So...LOH leaves the TSBD (a little unusual) hails a taxi (unusual) goes home and gets his Smith & Wesson .38, stuffs it in his waistband (very unusual), and heads on foot to the Texas Theater---even though LOH has no idea what has happened, other than JFK has been shot by parties unknown, possibly mere lowlife. 

Really...this scenario just does not hold water. 

If LOH was a completely clueless patsy, why would he hail a taxi (relatively costly), and go home and arm himself, and seek refuge in the Texas Theater?  

If Army intel was making LOH a completely clueless patsy, were they not worried he might go down to the motorcade route and watch (and be photographed)? Or actually have lunch with fellow employees in the domino room? 

And how did Army intel even know about LOH, who was a CIA asset? 

Sure, Army intel could still then pin the "murder weapon" on LOH through the (possibly phoney) paper trail, but then by deduction LOH would have accomplices. Which would raises more questions. 

Well, let us see what Newman comes up with. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

The above discussion contains excellent observations from Pat Speer, who I usually agree with. 

Also, really, ACSI and CIA never coordinated? 

[Paul Brancato]

Yes - Lansdale was ‘ on loan’ from ACSI to CIA. The distinction I would like to make is the difference between good old boy Eastern prep school establishment like Dulles and the various Yalies for instance, and hardened military men like Lemnitzer and LeMay. The former were all together more genteel, and it’s hard for me to imagine they would kill a president. Not so the latter.  Keep in mind that whatever noise was echoing about getting rid of Castro, we never did. But we did continue the Cold War, and we did initiate a hot offshoot of that in Vietnam, a much more profitable venture than little old Cuba. So with the benefit of hindsight I would say Vietnam and SE Asia was the aim of the plotters. That war could never have happened with JFK in the White House. If a change in Cuba policy had been the goal, a failed assassination blamed on Castro would easily have sufficed. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Paul Brancato

[W. Tracy Parnell]

A report on Newman's presentation:

Newman Says Phillips Was Not Bishop ~ W. Tracy Parnell

[Matt Allison]

I remain unconvinced about Newman's idea that Veciana was sprung from prison in order to frame the CIA for JFK's murder, mainly because Newman still has not provided any evidence of it.

I also believe there is no other evidence that Veciana's relationship with the Army extended beyond his activity with Hubbard during the first week of November in 1962. If there is any evidence that Veciana was still connected to the Army once Mongoose was disbanded, I haven't seen it. Newman seems to infer that William Harvey considered Veciana and Alpha 66 too unruly to manage, and therefore moved them to the domain of the Army, a scenario that strains credulity, especially considering it was Harvey himself who sent exiles on a mission into Cuba during the CMC, which resulted in Harvey being demoted and sent abroad to the CIA station in Rome.

People can, and should, debate whether or not Veciana was telling the truth about meeting Bishop/Phillips in the presence of Oswald. But Newman has come up woefully short in trying to prove Veciana was not involved with the CIA and Bishop, and that Bishop was Phillips. In trying to use Veciana's friend Zabala's FBI interview against him, we actually find another source for the Bishop story (and that Bishop was CIA), as Zabala himself was also recruited into the infamous 1971 plot to kill Castro in Chile:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=173668#relPageId=22&tab=page