Robert Morrow Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) Ben, I am just curious. How did Eladio Del Valle feel about the Kennedys? Because I know how LBJ did. Robert Caro describes the LBJ-RFK relationship post 1960 Democratic convention, where RFK had moved heaven and earth attempting to keep LBJ off the 1960 Democratic ticket. Caro: QUOTE John Connally, who during long days of conversation with this author was willing to answer almost any question put to him, no matter how delicate the topic, wouldn't answer when asked what Johnson said about Robert Kennedy. When the author pressed him, he finally said flatly: "I am not going to tell you what he said about him." During the months after the convention, when Johnson was closeted alone back in Texas with an old ally he would sometimes be asked about Robert Kennedy. He would reply with a gesture. Raising his big right hand, he would draw the side of it across the neck in a slowing, slitting movement. Sometimes that gesture would be his only reply; sometimes, as during a meeting with Ed Clark in Austin, he would say, as his hand moved across his neck, "I'll cut his throat if it's the last thing I do." UNQUOTE [Robert Caro, The Passage of Power, p. 140] Edited March 4 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Robert Morrow said: Ben, I am just curious. How did Eladio Del Valle feel about the Kennedys? Because I know how LBJ did. Robert Caro describes the LBJ-RFK relationship post 1960 Democratic convention, where RFK had moved heaven and earth attempting to keep LBJ off the 1960 Democratic ticket. Caro: QUOTE John Connally, who during long days of conversation with this author was willing to answer almost any question put to him, no matter how delicate the topic, wouldn't answer when asked what Johnson said about Robert Kennedy. When the author pressed him, he finally said flatly: "I am not going to tell you what he said about him." During the months after the convention, when Johnson was closeted alone back in Texas with an old ally he would sometimes be asked about Robert Kennedy. He would reply with a gesture. Raising his big right hand, he would draw the side of it across the neck in a slowing, slitting movement. Sometimes that gesture would be his only reply; sometimes, as during a meeting with Ed Clark in Austin, he would say, as his hand moved across his neck, "I'll cut his throat if it's the last thing I do." UNQUOTE [Robert Caro, The Passage of Power, p. 140] The above is a great and important part of the big "Black Hole" missing biographical information history of the full reality LBJ story. Missing from the mainstream societal and media historical record except for rare mention in extremely obscure and hard to find literary venues and immediately downplayed and disparaged when it is brought out in any media way. Did LBJ hate the Kennedys to a degree of wanting them removed? In the least, to save his own hugely corrupt neck? Does a Zebra have stripes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said: The above is a great and important part of the big "Black Hole" missing biographical information history of the full reality LBJ story. Missing from the mainstream societal and media historical record except for rare mention in extremely obscure and hard to find literary venues and immediately downplayed and disparaged when it is brought out in any media way. Did LBJ hate the Kennedys to a degree of wanting them removed? In the least, to save his own hugely corrupt neck? Does a Zebra have stripes? “LBJ vs. The Kennedys: Chasing Demons” – a suppressed documentary narrated by Frank Sesno & aired by the History Channel on June 1, 2003 https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/lbj-vs-kennedys-chasing-demons.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 7 hours ago, Robert Morrow said: Ben, I am just curious. How did Eladio Del Valle feel about the Kennedys? Because I know how LBJ did. Robert Caro describes the LBJ-RFK relationship post 1960 Democratic convention, where RFK had moved heaven and earth attempting to keep LBJ off the 1960 Democratic ticket. Caro: QUOTE John Connally, who during long days of conversation with this author was willing to answer almost any question put to him, no matter how delicate the topic, wouldn't answer when asked what Johnson said about Robert Kennedy. When the author pressed him, he finally said flatly: "I am not going to tell you what he said about him." During the months after the convention, when Johnson was closeted alone back in Texas with an old ally he would sometimes be asked about Robert Kennedy. He would reply with a gesture. Raising his big right hand, he would draw the side of it across the neck in a slowing, slitting movement. Sometimes that gesture would be his only reply; sometimes, as during a meeting with Ed Clark in Austin, he would say, as his hand moved across his neck, "I'll cut his throat if it's the last thing I do." UNQUOTE [Robert Caro, The Passage of Power, p. 140] Well, there is not a lot of biographical sketches of Eladio Del Valle and Herminio Diaz, and both were dead by 1967. They were Cuban exiles active in the anti-Castro movement, soldiers, so likely they loathed JFK for his perceived betrayal regarding the BoP. You are obviously correct that LBJ also loathed the Kennedys. As stated, you may be correct in your surmising regarding LBJ. My inclination is a JFKA plot must have a very small number of witting, pre-JFKA participants, and likely did not cross organizational lines. The JFKA plotters were people who knew each other for a long time, trusted each other as totally committed, could handle hardware, and perhaps even had been in battle together. They may have been so committed that escaping was not a No. 1 concern. Recall when Puerto Rican nationalists shot up the US Congress. IMHO, the idea JFKA plotters pooling witting resources among several agencies (FBI, Secret Service, Dallas Police, CIA, others, innumerable people in elites as well) pre-JFKA requires too much suspension of disbelief. Post-JFKA complicity became the rule, especially as LHO was tagged as a leftie-loser-loner commie who anti-patriots and Moscow agents wanted to clear. But hey, just IMHO. Others have other viewpoints. The EF-JFKA should be a place where all views are treated civilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 (edited) 6 hours ago, Robert Morrow said: “LBJ vs. The Kennedys: Chasing Demons” – a suppressed documentary narrated by Frank Sesno & aired by the History Channel on June 1, 2003 https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/lbj-vs-kennedys-chasing-demons.html Add on: See Robert Montenegro's extraordinary bit of research, also available on the EF-JFKA. He just posted. He also has a well-documented view of the JFKA, with very little LBJ role. I also have reservations about his explanation of the JFKA, as involving too many witting, pre-JFKA participants. Would any sane person plan a presidential assassination with dozens or hundreds of witting pre-event participants? Is that how the CIA x'ed out foreign leaders? They involved hundreds of participants first in the actual plotting, from multiple agencies and backgrounds in the targeted nation, planned for weeks or months on end (possible leaks the whole time), and then x'ed out a foreign leader? In addition, all that pre-JFKA coordination is not necessary. It is ghoulish to note, but a couple of guys with rifles in Dealey Plaza, and likely a diversion at the GK, was sufficient. As usual, just IMHO. Edited March 5 by Benjamin Cole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 18 hours ago, Robert Morrow said: “LBJ vs. The Kennedys: Chasing Demons” – a suppressed documentary narrated by Frank Sesno & aired by the History Channel on June 1, 2003 https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2021/05/lbj-vs-kennedys-chasing-demons.html RM-- 1. You contend there were "multiple shooters" on the TSBD 6. Do you mean two or three? When they left the TSBD, did they bring their firearms along? Do you posit perhaps three men, carrying firearms, got into the TSBD elevators after the JFKA, descended to the first floor, and then left by the back door of the TSBD? No one reported seeing such a group of men. But then, one could posit the potential witnesses were TSBD'ers who were told to keep mum. Or, they could have worn long coats, covered the weapons. BTW, in my view, LHO was on TSBD 6, and fired once to intentionally miss (possibly the Tague shot). Another individual fired in earnest, although possibly from the second floor of the TSBD, or the Dal-Tex building. 2. Most JFKA earwitnesses heard three shots. This does not preclude simultaneous shots, or shots heard simultaneously though fired split seconds apart, or the use of silencers or pneumatic guns. If there were multiple shooters on the TSBD 6, what is your explanation of why only three shots were heard? Again, I enjoy your posts. I am just fleshing out ideas here, and just IMHO as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 So, it looks like Ben has seized the JFKA elephant by the trunk, (the Dealey gunmen) concluding that the beast is a python. And Robert Morrow has seized it by the leg, (LBJ) concluding that it is like a tree. Meanwhile, Robert Montenegro has claimed that it is a big ass beast. Happy hunting, fellas. 🤓 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 4 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: RM-- 1. You contend there were "multiple shooters" on the TSBD 6. Do you mean two or three? When they left the TSBD, did they bring their firearms along? Do you posit perhaps three men, carrying firearms, got into the TSBD elevators after the JFKA, descended to the first floor, and then left by the back door of the TSBD? No one reported seeing such a group of men. But then, one could posit the potential witnesses were TSBD'ers who were told to keep mum. Or, they could have worn long coats, covered the weapons. BTW, in my view, LHO was on TSBD 6, and fired once to intentionally miss (possibly the Tague shot). Another individual fired in earnest, although possibly from the second floor of the TSBD, or the Dal-Tex building. 2. Most JFKA earwitnesses heard three shots. This does not preclude simultaneous shots, or shots heard simultaneously though fired split seconds apart, or the use of silencers or pneumatic guns. If there were multiple shooters on the TSBD 6, what is your explanation of why only three shots were heard? Again, I enjoy your posts. I am just fleshing out ideas here, and just IMHO as always. 4 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: RM-- 1. You contend there were "multiple shooters" on the TSBD 6. Do you mean two or three? When they left the TSBD, did they bring their firearms along? Do you posit perhaps three men, carrying firearms, got into the TSBD elevators after the JFKA, descended to the first floor, and then left by the back door of the TSBD? No one reported seeing such a group of men. But then, one could posit the potential witnesses were TSBD'ers who were told to keep mum. Or, they could have worn long coats, covered the weapons. BTW, in my view, LHO was on TSBD 6, and fired once to intentionally miss (possibly the Tague shot). Another individual fired in earnest, although possibly from the second floor of the TSBD, or the Dal-Tex building. 2. Most JFKA earwitnesses heard three shots. This does not preclude simultaneous shots, or shots heard simultaneously though fired split seconds apart, or the use of silencers or pneumatic guns. If there were multiple shooters on the TSBD 6, what is your explanation of why only three shots were heard? Again, I enjoy your posts. I am just fleshing out ideas here, and just IMHO as always. SPECULATION HERE: Remember, I have D.H. Byrd, because of his closeness to LBJ and his large insider stock buys into LTV in the weeks before the JFK assassination, as one of the plotters to kill JFK. Everything just got easier for any assassin in TSBD. I think there were 2 shooters in TSBD - one on the far western window (it was wide open) and one in the sniper's nest to the east (where Oswald was not). I think these men got into the elevators and ran outside the back of the TSBD. Took their guns with them or hid them somewhere temporarily in TSBD where there may have been other confederates to dispose of the weapons. I think Oswald's weapon was not used and merely planted because he was a pre-selected patsy for the JFK assassination. Therefore I don't have Oswald on 6th floor TSBD because no one saw him on the stairs - the 4th floor girls did not. As far as the amount of shots - 6 minimum, maybe 7.... 3 or 4 bullets into JFK, one into Connally, a shot into the infield that was dug up and the FBI deep sixed it and the shot that nearly hit Tague. I don't trust the witness interviews because the DPD, FBI were doing the interviewing. Anyone who heard more than 3 shots was immediately discounted. I have the Dallas Police Dept immediately in on the frame up of Oswald and the FBI following suit very soon afterwoods. One DPD and FBI have been determined to be corrupted so quickly, everything else they cough up CAN'T BE TRUSTED ON THE SURFACE - especially witness interviews or write up of interviews that occurred days after the JFK assassination. Dallas police started framing Oswald at 12:44PM. Anything the produce after that is immediately suspected as possibly fraudulent, including interviews and write up interviews. Absolute Proof Lee Harvey Oswald was a *pre-selected patsy* for the JFK assassination: “5 feet 10 inches, 165 pounds” https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2023/01/5-feet-10-inches-165-pounds-is-absolute.html Dallas Police Dispatcher was immediately using Marguerite Oswald’s description of Lee given to Dallas FBI in May, 1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 6 hours ago, Robert Morrow said: SPECULATION HERE: Remember, I have D.H. Byrd, because of his closeness to LBJ and his large insider stock buys into LTV in the weeks before the JFK assassination, as one of the plotters to kill JFK. Everything just got easier for any assassin in TSBD. I think there were 2 shooters in TSBD - one on the far western window (it was wide open) and one in the sniper's nest to the east (where Oswald was not). I think these men got into the elevators and ran outside the back of the TSBD. Took their guns with them or hid them somewhere temporarily in TSBD where there may have been other confederates to dispose of the weapons. I think Oswald's weapon was not used and merely planted because he was a pre-selected patsy for the JFK assassination. Therefore I don't have Oswald on 6th floor TSBD because no one saw him on the stairs - the 4th floor girls did not. As far as the amount of shots - 6 minimum, maybe 7.... 3 or 4 bullets into JFK, one into Connally, a shot into the infield that was dug up and the FBI deep sixed it and the shot that nearly hit Tague. I don't trust the witness interviews because the DPD, FBI were doing the interviewing. Anyone who heard more than 3 shots was immediately discounted. I have the Dallas Police Dept immediately in on the frame up of Oswald and the FBI following suit very soon afterwoods. One DPD and FBI have been determined to be corrupted so quickly, everything else they cough up CAN'T BE TRUSTED ON THE SURFACE - especially witness interviews or write up of interviews that occurred days after the JFK assassination. Dallas police started framing Oswald at 12:44PM. Anything the produce after that is immediately suspected as possibly fraudulent, including interviews and write up interviews. Absolute Proof Lee Harvey Oswald was a *pre-selected patsy* for the JFK assassination: “5 feet 10 inches, 165 pounds” https://robertmorrowpoliticalresearchblog.blogspot.com/2023/01/5-feet-10-inches-165-pounds-is-absolute.html Dallas Police Dispatcher was immediately using Marguerite Oswald’s description of Lee given to Dallas FBI in May, 1960 RM- Good enough. I have different speculation on this precise matter, but hey that is what the EF-JFKA is for---airing out viewpoints. I think the majority of earwitnesses heard three audible shots. Pat Speer and Tink Thompson seem to accept this. I agree with you that affidavits were monkeyed with, and witnesses pressured or misinterpreted. BTW, Pat Speer, a serious JFKA researcher, also believes the JFKA shooter(s) may have simply ridden the elevator down. My take is some shots on 11/22 were simultaneous, or heard simultaneously, or silenced guns were used, but most earwitnesses did in fact hear three shots. Side comment: IMHO--See if you can pare down the number of witting pre-JFKA participants to a minimum, even within your construct. I assume LHO working in the TSBD was happenstance. It looks planned, but remember there were literally thousands of CIA assets in the US at the time, largely due to the Cuba situation. Not all of them were on steady payroll, and they had to take jobs (or run drugs or weaponry). Speculation: The LBJ plot could have been as small as LBJ musing to Clifton Carter about the passing of JFK would be too bad and looking at the ceiling, and Carter musing to Lansdale the passing of JFK would be too bad and looking at the ceiling, and Lansdale collecting three guys to work with LHO in Dallas, as Lansdale knew the password to activate LHO's participation. Lansdale's placed one guy in the TSBD, one in Dal-Tex, and diversionary guy, the smoke-and-bang show at the GK. LHO thought he was participating in a failed false flag attempt on JFK's life to be blamed on Castro. One consideration; To make LHO the patsy, I contend the plotters had to make sure LHO was not on the sidewalk taking photos of JFK as he went by. This required some level of cooperation of duping of LHO. LHO was dead within hours, and two of the other three participants dead by 1967. LBJ and Carter really did not know details. Just IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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