Jim DiEugenio vs Fred Litwin

[Steve Roe]

1 minute ago, Denny Zartman said:

According to Fruge and Dishler, it was verified.

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ruby4.htm

Wrong again, The Vegas Club was a dance club with live music. Ruby's sister Eva used to run that club. The Vegas Club was NOT a strip club. 

[Denny Zartman]

1 minute ago, Steve Roe said:

Wrong again, The Vegas Club was a dance club with live music. Ruby's sister Eva used to run that club. The Vegas Club was NOT a strip club. 

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Quote

The Vegas, which occasionally featured striptease acts, employed a dance band and served beer, wine, soft drinks, and some prepared foods.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ruby4.htm

 

[Steve Roe]

Just now, Denny Zartman said:

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http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ruby4.htm

 

Occasionally, yes. It was primary a dance-live entertainment club. 

Show me the verification that Marcades was a stripper for Jack Ruby, can you?

[Denny Zartman]

1 minute ago, Steve Roe said:

Occasionally, yes. It was primary a dance-live entertainment club. 

Show me the verification that Marcades was a stripper for Jack Ruby, can you?

I'm tired of your games, Steve.

You said the Vegas was not a strip club.

You were wrong.

You said Ruby only owned one strip club.

You were wrong.

You said Marcades' employment at one of Ruby's clubs was not verified.

You were wrong.

Game over.

I can't show you the verification, because, according to Dishler, Fruge's sources wished to remain unidentified. Dishler and Fruge are on record as saying that Marcades' employment at one of Ruby's clubs was verified. According to the documents in the appendix of "Rose Cherami: Gathering Fallen Petals" Second Edition, it appears that at least a dozen people in the hospital (including Fruge) heard Marcades' prediction before the assassination happened.

If you choose to disbelieve Fruge and Dishler, that is your right, but it shows to me that your critical thinking skills are severely lacking, especially in this particular case. The JFK case is absolutely filled with missing evidence and some witness claims that can't be directly substantiated. That's when we look at the other evidence surrounding it, give it the smell test, and use some common sense and some deductive reasoning. Because evidence is missing doesn't mean it never existed, and because some witness testimony can't be directly substantiated doesn't mean it is automatically false.

And if you've never heard of a stripper in her late thirties, you need to get out more. We have a famous stripper here in Atlanta who is in her mid-fifties.

If you really want to nitpick and dismiss Marcades's story because I personally couldn't provide you with the information that Fruge and Dishler were privy to, or that you think Marcades was too old to be a stripper, that's your decision. But in my opinion you are not using proper critical thinking and you certainly aren't contributing anything to our overall understanding of the JFK assassination.

[Denny Zartman]

Steve Roe thinks that because Marcades' employment wasn't verified to his satisfaction, that means it was never verified at all.

That's simply illogical.

[James DiEugenio]

I could not have stated it any better Denny.

You can now see why the legislature in that Jim Crow state moved to get Fruge and Dischler off of Garrison's staff.

They were doing excellent work, in solving the murder of the guy who was trying to eliminate Jim Crow.

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by James DiEugenio

[W. Tracy Parnell]

7 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:

Steve Roe thinks that because Marcades' employment wasn't verified to his satisfaction, that means it was never verified at all.

That's simply illogical.

I'll tell you what is "illogical." Believing that a woman with an extensive criminal record who was a prostitute and drug abuser and who had played loose with "facts" that she  related to law enforcement officials would have any type of knowledge of an assassination plot as she claimed (or as some people said she claimed). What sort of conspiracy would trust her?

She also said that Ruby and Oswald were "bed partners." Is that believable? The whole point here is that any comments she made were almost certainly after the assassination when she and many other people were speculating about the facts surrounding JFK's death. Absent some verification (and I don't mean anonymous sources) The Rose Cherami story is not believable to most people at this point in time. Yet it seems that it must be defended here with the utmost vigor.

[Steve Roe]

Well golly gee.....Let's put it another way. If Jim Garrison had evidence that Rose Cheramie worked for Jack Ruby, where is it? Don't you think something as important as that would be in Garrison's papers? 

Bottom line, you have no proof. Only he said-she said. That don't cut it. 

If Fruge/Dischler "verified" she worked for Ruby and told Jim Garrison....where is it?

And of course Jack Ruby slept with Oswald......

Yeah, you got yourself another winner DiEugenio. Are you going to put me on ignore again, like last time?

 

[Calvin Ye]

1 hour ago, Steve Roe said:

Well golly gee.....Let's put it another way. If Jim Garrison had evidence that Rose Cheramie worked for Jack Ruby, where is it? Don't you think something as important as that would be in Garrison's papers? 

Bottom line, you have no proof. Only he said-she said. That don't cut it. 

If Fruge/Dischler "verified" she worked for Ruby and told Jim Garrison....where is it?

And of course Jack Ruby slept with Oswald......

Yeah, you got yourself another winner DiEugenio. Are you going to put me on ignore again, like last time?

 

Ruby didn't slept with Oswald. Rose was saying that Ruby and Oswald knew each other and was working together as part if not a team

[Calvin Ye]

2 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I'll tell you what is "illogical." Believing that a woman with an extensive criminal record who was a prostitute and drug abuser and who had played loose with "facts" that she  related to law enforcement officials would have any type of knowledge of an assassination plot as she claimed (or as some people said she claimed). What sort of conspiracy would trust her?

She also said that Ruby and Oswald were "bed partners." Is that believable? The whole point here is that any comments she made were almost certainly after the assassination when she and many other people were speculating about the facts surrounding JFK's death. Absent some verification (and I don't mean anonymous sources) The Rose Cherami story is not believable to most people at this point in time. Yet it seems that it must be defended here with the utmost vigor.

Tracy, the Cheramie story is not believable to most WC supporters and conspiracy skeptics like you. The problem is that you don't understand that prostitution, drugs and law enforcement officials have ties to common elements

[W. Tracy Parnell]

47 minutes ago, Calvin Ye said:

Ruby didn't slept with Oswald. Rose was saying that Ruby and Oswald knew each other and was working together as part if not a team

According to Fruge, Cherami said Ruby and Oswald were "bed partners" (in the literal sense). Cherami also said Oswald's nickname was "pinkey." Fruge also was the person who said that it was "verified" that Cherami stripped for Ruby. So, either Fruge is a good source on all of this or he isn't.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

44 minutes ago, Calvin Ye said:

Tracy, the Cheramie story is not believable to most WC supporters and conspiracy skeptics like you. The problem is that you don't understand that prostitution, drugs and law enforcement officials have ties to common elements

I don't know what you mean by "common elements." If you mean that those who would plan to kill JFK (assuming there was a conspiracy) might have ties to unsavory elements that is a reasonable assumption. What is not reasonable to me is that these elements would have anything to do with either Cherami or Ruby. That is if they planned to keep their plot a secret.

BTW, what happened to your photo Calvin? I think that is required here.

[Calvin Ye]

2 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I don't know what you mean by "common elements." If you mean that those who would plan to kill JFK (assuming there was a conspiracy) might have ties to unsavory elements that is a reasonable assumption. What is not reasonable to me is that these elements would have anything to do with either Cherami or Ruby. That is if they planned to keep their plot a secret.

BTW, what happened to your photo Calvin? I think that is required here.

Tracy, you didn't research enough to understand what I am talking about

Edited May 27, 2021 by Calvin Ye

[Calvin Ye]

2 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

According to Fruge, Cherami said Ruby and Oswald were "bed partners" (in the literal sense). Cherami also said Oswald's nickname was "pinkey." Fruge also was the person who said that it was "verified" that Cherami stripped for Ruby. So, either Fruge is a good source on all of this or he isn't.

Please check out Denny's above post concerning Fruge's source

[Benjamin Cole]

9 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I'll tell you what is "illogical." Believing that a woman with an extensive criminal record who was a prostitute and drug abuser and who had played loose with "facts" that she  related to law enforcement officials would have any type of knowledge of an assassination plot as she claimed (or as some people said she claimed). What sort of conspiracy would trust her?

She also said that Ruby and Oswald were "bed partners." Is that believable? The whole point here is that any comments she made were almost certainly after the assassination when she and many other people were speculating about the facts surrounding JFK's death. Absent some verification (and I don't mean anonymous sources) The Rose Cherami story is not believable to most people at this point in time. Yet it seems that it must be defended here with the utmost vigor.

W. Tracy P--There is an old saying, "Never judge a book by its cover." 

There seems little doubt Rose Cheramie was down on her luck, in with drugs, other vice. With a few strokes of bad luck, who could say what would happen to most of us? 

But more importantly, her background is not important as much as the timing of what was said. Multiple witness indicate she talked about the JFKA before it happened, and that the drug deal in which she was participating was for real. 

There does seem be be more than a few connections between the drug world and Cuban exiles. Antonio Veciana went to prison on a drug deal, Eladio Del Valle apparently slaughtered in a drug deal, and Sergio Arcacha-Smith was evidently in a drug deal. That's off the top of my head. 

I agree with you, that a high-level CIA assassination plot would have little to do with the Rose Cheramie or Smith. 

On the other hand, the CIA was running LHO (read John Newman), and doing a biography build on him (Newman, Dan Hardway). LHO was in the TSBD when the JFKA happened. LHO quickly left the premises and armed himself. 

Shots separately struck Connally and JFK in too-rapid succession to have been fired by one single-shot bolt-action rifle. Gunsmoke was heavy in Dealey Plaza.

I would say LHO and the CIA, possibly another group were "involved" in the JFKA. 

My take is rogue CIA assets, such as Smith, learned of a fake, false-flag assassination JFKA planned by the CIA (likely David Atlee Phillips). Those assets successfully piggybacked on the CIA-public relations stunt. 

This is how Rose Cheramie came to hear talk about the JFKA before it happened. She was in the milieu of the CIA assets (who were also running drugs) but not in with the CIA itself.