Matt Allison Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 The noose is slowly tightening, and I'm going to enjoy every single minute of it. Thrilled to be living in interesting times, with lots of stories to relay to my grandchildren someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) On 7/30/2021 at 6:19 PM, Benjamin Cole said: Fill me in. Tell me (and I am open-minded) how people planted explosives (floor-by-floor?) in the 94 floors of both WTC towers and then also in the 54 floors of tower 7. You say they were noticed, but no one did anything? What was the cover story? Were the explosives designed to look like something else? How many people total participated in the 9/11 plot? Sounds like at least dozens, maybe more. You think the 9/11 plot is more likely than an infiltrator, or plant, or informant or government agent gave $500 to Mr Buffalo Horns to go to DC? I don't know that I am "obsessed" with My Buffalo Horns, other than I find the topic interesting. One must concede Mr. Buffalo Horns is the colorful and signature character of the Jan. 6 follies. As "obsessed" as I am, officialdom seems much more obsessed---they are keeping him behind bars, and say Mr. Buffalo Horns is a danger to the public. You agree that he is a danger? That is the same officialdom telling you to be very, very afraid of the regime-change operation on Jan. 6. I suspect this is political theater, but let us see how events unfold. I am keeping an open mind. Theater of the absurd? The guys who attacked the Capitol on January 6th must have been very good actors, indeed. They were even willing to violently assault and injure 150 Capitol police officers, gouge out their eyes with flagpoles, and spray them with toxic chemicals! As for 9/11, I'm somewhat reluctant to delve into the topic on this forum, but, if you want to go down the rabbit hole, it might be helpful to work backward from the scientific fact that the buildings were explosively demolished. The question is no longer if, but how that was accomplished. Unfortunately, I have more questions than answers. Who was in charge of WTC security prior to 9/11? Who had access to the buildings? Apparently, repair work was being done on the central elevator shafts of the WTC buildings by a company called ACE, and a company called LVI had contracted to remove the WTC asbestos. (Oddly, one of the WTC tenants prior to 9/11 was Komatsu, a company that produces high-tech thermitic explosives used in building demolitions.) Demolitions expert Tom Sullivan has pointed out that the WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 demolitions exhibited all of the characteristics of expertly controlled building demolitions, and that the demolitions could have been readily accomplished by people who had access to the elevator shafts. See, for example: http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/529-tom-sullivan-eso Edited August 1, 2021 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: duplicate thread Edited July 31, 2021 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 1 minute ago, W. Niederhut said: Theater of the absurd? The guys who attacked the Capitol on January 6th must have been very good actors, indeed. They were even willing to violently assault and injure 150 Capitol police officers, gouge out their eyes with flagpoles, and spray them with toxic chemicals! As for 9/11, I'm somewhat reluctant to delve into the topic on this forum, but, if you want to go down the rabbit hole, it might be helpful to work backward from the scientific fact that the buildings were explosively demolished. The question is no longer if, but how was that accomplished. Unfortunately, I have more questions than answers. Who was in charge of WTC security prior to 9/11? Who had access to the buildings? Apparently, repair work was being done on the central elevator shafts of the WTC buildings by a company called ACE. And a company called LVI had contracted to remove the WTC asbestos. (Oddly, one of the WTC tenants prior to 9/11 was Komatsu, a company that produces high-tech thermitic explosives used in building demolitions.) Demolitions expert Tom Sullivan has pointed out that the WTC1 and WTC2 demolitions exhibited all of the characteristics of expertly controlled demolitions, and that the demolitions could have been readily accomplished by people who had access to the elevator shafts. See, for example: http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/529-tom-sullivan-eso So...to answer my own question, by deduction, then at least dozens and maybe 100 or more people were operationally involved in the 9/11 event before it happened, placing explosives floor by floor on 188 floors of the WTC Twins and then also the 54 floors of Tower 7. It is unknown how many additional people were involved in planning, and immediate cover-up. .... On the posited Jan. 6 regime-change operation, I have never doubted there was a mob of kooks, whackos, mentally challenged and marginalized at the Capitol, some of whom were violent (though not lethally so). Was there a guiding power behind the rabble? No evidence so far...although we know many other "terrorist" events turn out to have been enabled (perhaps even inadvertently) by federal money, plants, infiltrators, informants and agents. It is an open question who gave Mr. Buffalo Horns $500 to travel to Washington. He had no resources of his own. He is being kept in solitary confinement, and shipped to a federal prison facility in Colorado. I would say he is awaiting trial, but after six months, perhaps he will never get a trial. Officialdom says Mr Buffalo Horns is a threat to the public and the Republic, that he might travel "undetected" again to Washington, as he did the first time. Keep an open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 Flooding DC with crazy Trumpers when you're planning on trying to prevent the VP from certifying the election, is just being smart if you're a conspirator. With regard to Angeli's supposed inhumane treatment, I'll assume you're not referring to when it was arranged for him to get an all-organic meal plan while incarcerated... His lawyer has said Angeli has already given to the FBI the name of the person who gave him $500, although I'm not sure if that was before or after he referred to the rioters as "retarded" and "short bus people" in his attempt to gain leniency for his client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said: So...to answer my own question, by deduction, then at least dozens and maybe 100 or more people were operationally involved in the 9/11 event before it happened, placing explosives floor by floor on 188 floors of the WTC Twins and then also the 54 floors of Tower 7. It is unknown how many additional people were involved in planning, and immediate cover-up. Keep an open mind. Benjamin, You often mention the importance of keeping an open mind, but I can't help noticing that you rarely seem to consider the commentaries and references posted in these discussions-- almost as if your mind is already made up. In the cases of the January 6th insurrectionists, have you studied their own statements in court about their motives for attacking Congress? They all point to keeping Trump in power and blocking the certification of the election as the motive for their attacks. The fact that the Buffalo Horn guy is, apparently, psychotic doesn't imply that all of Trump's January 6th attackers were similarly impaired, though, admittedly, they hardly seem like paragons of mental health. From what I have read about Ashli Babbitt, for instance, I wonder about manic tendencies and/or ADHD. She was, apparently, prone to rage attacks-- like once ramming her car into the car of her boyfriend's ex-wife, or angrily trying to break through the door of the House chamber. As for the obvious explosive demolitions of the World Trade Center buildings, as mentioned, it's not a question of if, but how the explosives were expertly placed in those buildings. It happened. I don't know who did the job or how many man-hours the job entailed, but I do know that the job was done. Do you follow? There's an analogy with the case of JFK's assassination. It's obvious that the fatal head shot that killed JFK was fired from the front and to the right of the limo. We can conclude that much without knowing precisely who did the job, or how it was accomplished. Edited July 31, 2021 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: Benjamin, You often mention the importance of keeping an open mind, but I can't help noticing that you rarely seem to consider the commentaries and references posted in these discussions-- almost as if your mind is already made up. In the cases of the January 6th insurrectionists, have you studied their own statements in court about their motives for attacking Congress? They all point to keeping Trump in power and blocking the certification of the election as the motive for their attacks. The fact that the Buffalo Horn guy is, apparently, psychotic doesn't imply that all of Trump's January 6th attackers were similarly impaired, though, admittedly, they hardly seem like paragons of mental health. From what I have read about Ashli Babbitt, for instance, I wonder about manic tendencies and/or ADHD. She was, apparently, prone to rage attacks-- like once ramming her car into the car of her boyfriend's ex-wife, or angrily trying to break through the door of the House chamber. As for the obvious explosive demolitions of the World Trade Center buildings, as mentioned, it's not a question of if, but how the explosives were expertly placed in those buildings. It happened. I don't know who did the job or how many man-hours the job entailed, but I do know that the job was done. Do you follow? There's an analogy with the case of JFK's assassination. It's obvious that the fatal head shot that killed JFK was fired from the front and to the right of the limo. We can conclude that much without knowing precisely who did the job, or how it was accomplished. W.-- I can't say I read all the court documents in the Jan. 6 event. The few I have read seem to indicate marginalized people, with a few actually daft enough to think that physically occupying the Capitol building would be an effective regime-change operation. Mr Buffalo Horns seems typical, if outwardly colorful. Ashli Babbitt also, such a sad story. These are the kind of people you lend $20 to, knowing you will never get it back, not incarcerate. But you seem to be agreeing with me---these are not people who posed any ability to effect a regime-change operation, anymore than an ant can defeat an elephant. But what followed Jan. 6 was and is political theater. Both parties engage in these show trials and investigations. The GOP impeachment of President Clinton, over (tawdry) sex with a consenting adult, was a show trial. (I agree workplace superiors should not have sex with subordinates, for obvious reasons, but it was a show trial nonetheless). The Trump impeachments strike me as show trials. The Trump impeachments also strike Matt Taibbi and Glenn Greenwald the same way. But, let us watch the latest show trial. From Brian Sicknick to Mr Buffalo Horns, there be events to comment on. I am (trying to) keep an open mind. BTW, You see Liz Cheney, lifelong national security-state apparatchik, and daughter of possible 9/11 plotter Dick Cheney, is on the Jan. 6 panel. She was Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs in the George W. Bush administration She promoted regime change in Iran while chairing the Iran Syria Policy and Operations Group with Elliott Abrams. Regarded as a leading ideological conservative[4] in the Bush–Cheney-era tradition and a representative of the Republican establishment,[5] Cheney is a neoconservative, known for her focus on national security, her support for the U.S. military, a pro-business stance,[6] foreign policy views, and for being fiscally and socially conservative.[7] What do you make of that? Why Liz Cheney on the Jan. 6 panel? Does that give you any caution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Add on https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases This is the first one I opened that had any info: https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1357076/download This may not be the right forum for an examination of who actually occupied the Capitol. In this one case, there are two confidential informants involved. This lady, from Lebanon originally, made no secret of her plans to go to DC, posting online before and after. Her writing appears a bit disjointed: Her writing online, from the FBI "Statement of Facts": "In part, she posted online, 'Just left Dc… I got tear gas, paper spray!!! But I was part of the history. We the people won’t take it anymore. Antifa were between us, i and other MAGA people told Dc police, get that Antifa they didn’t do anything. He had black metal chair... The police would order to use full force on us from the beginning when we start marching to the capital, the use teargas 2 and pepper spray and rubber bullet, they shot the woman that was standing peacefully without a a weapon, they hit women’s kids. They hit people with the pat metal one.'” ---30--- Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 13 hours ago, W. Niederhut said: Ben, IMO, your obsessional focus on the Buffalo Guy is a variation on the old-fashioned straw man argument-- a deflection from the essence of the January 6th insurrection by violent Trump supporters to block certification of the U.S. election. Regarding the singular case itself, It's often difficult to identify the delusions (and/or hallucinations) that motivate psychotic people to do weird things. I once treated a patient at the Colorado State Hospital who walked into a library and shot a man she didn't know because voices of "the village people" told her to shoot him. As for your question about the WTC towers during the weeks prior to 9/11, you need to do some research. Who told you that "no one noticed" any unusual activity in the towers prior to 9/11? Well of course it is a strawman, W.. Benjamin, talking of "Buffalo Horns':The colorful, signature character of the Jan. 6 follies. The emblematic figure is still in prison, Yes, colorful and emblematic indeed!. Buffalo horns has so captured Ben's fancy, he again becomes obsessed, this time with Buffalo Horns, who becomes the only figure he has any knowledge about in the entire riots. Benjamin is so smitten that the whole 1/6 world revolves around him. And is leading man in his political theater. Much like Ben's first obsession with the antagonist, Brian Sicknick as "emblematically" typifying the police reaction during the riots as he actually tries to say even if the riots never happened Sicknick was going to die the next day anyway! Sort of like to the covid deniers a year ago who were saying BUT DID HE REALLY DIED OF COVID! So then he pits them together, it's innocent ,though amusingly ludicrous Mr. Bull Horns who is after all just part of a new version of the "Merry Pranksters" against the evil Capitol police who of course the ominous MSM (the hidden "deep"underlying antagonists subtext) tries to portray as victims by misappropriating one of the police deaths to the rioters! Whew, Great drama, Ben. I can't wait to see Act 3. ******* Well, speaking of theater, I don't want sound caddy, but the bloom is certainly off the rose with Glen Greenwad , is it not? Even Matt looks like a bit of a skull these days. I guess that's what happens if you dare oppose the dreaded "Deep State'! Or maybe just the politics of discreditation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 Once upon a time I followed Glenn Greenwald, but his gradual swing towards anti-democracy beliefs now makes him just sound like an angry zealot. Sometimes people change. As difficult as it is to comprehend, 20-25 years ago Donald Trump was relatively tolerable. People change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 I agree with you Matt. I use to like Greenwald and particularly Taibbi. But I don't feel obligated to spew the same old stuff when the reality has changed. These groupies just glom on to these few figures for years and just parrot all their concerns even if the reality changed and these guys themselves have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) I think if I had to take my cues from Liz Cheney...or Matt Taibbi and Glenn Greenwald...I would go with the latter. Liz Cheney? This is the BFF of the Donks? Edited July 31, 2021 by Benjamin Cole typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lifton Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 On 7/29/2021 at 8:39 AM, W. Niederhut said: Steve Bannon’s podcast constitutes written evidence of intent to foment a riot; further, to illegally grab politial power through the use of force. His words go beyond the right to assemble, air grievences, etc., all of which are constitituionally protected activities. But consider carefully what Bannon wrote next: “Its gonna be moving; its gonna be quick.” This does not sound like a peaceful assembly; but rather, an attempt to grab political power. As my high school teacher used to say, "Words are the tools of thought.” So what was Steve Bannon thinking? And what was it that was “gonna be quick”? Bannon’s words sound like he was not describing a peaceful assembly, but rather employing words one would use to describe someone planning a putch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schwartz Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 David , I agree with you. One very minor point- I think you meant "putsch". not "putch". Per the Merriam dictionary, "Putsch definition is - a secretly plotted and suddenly executed attempt to overthrow a government. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 4 hours ago, David Lifton said: Steve Bannon’s podcast constitutes written evidence of intent to foment a riot; further, to illegally grab politial power through the use of force. His words go beyond the right to assemble, air grievences, etc., all of which are constitituionally protected activities. But consider carefully what Bannon wrote next: “Its gonna be moving; its gonna be quick.” This does not sound like a peaceful assembly; but rather, an attempt to grab political power. As my high school teacher used to say, "Words are the tools of thought.” So what was Steve Bannon thinking? And what was it that was “gonna be quick”? Bannon’s words sound like he was not describing a peaceful assembly, but rather employing words one would use to describe someone planning a putch. Steve Bannon planned a putsch, or regime-change operation? And I plan to be the pan-Galactic Jefe! From Wiki, "In January 2018, Bannon was disavowed by Trump for critical comments reported in the book Fire and Fury,[33] and left Breitbart." Bannon worked in the Trump White House for the first seven months of the administration, and appears to have been grifting ever since. I think there is a serious case to be made the JFKA was a regime-change operation, but what is key is that 99.9% of the government was left in place. After the JFKA, everyone (Joint Chiefs-Pentagon-intel, Congress, judiciary, allied media and academia) went along with LBJ as president, and decisions he made. OK, Bannon is howling whatever he howled in the podcast. Maybe Bannon planned a putsch, with none of the elements in place to succeed. That is called delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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