JFK Revisited: Through The Looking Glass

[W. Tracy Parnell]

5 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

This is fine, as I'm fairly certain Francois posted it here to begin with.

The Kennedy assassination : common sense, facts and the truth !: Doctor Perry's answers to my questions, in 1997 (facts-carlier-jfk-assassination.blogspot.com)

[Micah Mileto]

4 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I don't think that answered the question. Someone called me out of the blue yesterday and asked my help in finding Carlier's communication with Perry. I had it, so I sent it to him. I would have sent it to you should you have asked. It's not all that important, but I would like to know if he called me on your behalf. 

Yesterday? The article I linked came out 3 days ago. I never knew any of these guys.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Micah Mileto

[Micah Mileto]

10 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

"JFK: Destiny Betrayed" Misleads on JFK's Head Wound, Part Two (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

It seems clear that, at some point during the attempted resuscitation, somebody said out loud "theres a large wound on the back of his head", "a piece of cerebellum fell out".

Edited March 23, 2022 by Micah Mileto

[Pat Speer]

13 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

Yesterday? The article I linked came out 3 days ago. Never knew any of these guys.

Cool. Apparently he saw the same article and wanted to see the actual letter with Perry's handwriting. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Pat Speer

[W. Tracy Parnell]

"JFK: Destiny Betrayed" Misleads on the Harper Fragment (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

[James DiEugenio]

Why does anyone even print this rubbish by Roe? (oh its Parnell, figures.)

We have the Steadman interview in which Perry says he was being intimidated that NIGHT.

But he tries to insist that he knew what an entrance wound looked like, since he had done many operations and also was a hunter.

But it actually started earlier, that day, right after the press conference.  Someone grabbed him by the arm, and said "Don't you ever say that again."  That is in the film The Parkland Doctors. 

BTW, does anyone know what steveroeconsulting is?  Because all I see is his rather dumb and dishonest remarks about the JFK case when it appears.  Just what area does he consult in?

Edited March 23, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

I have now been through four search engines--Google, Yahoo, Bing and Duck Duck go go--and I have yet to find steveroeconsulting on anything but the JFK case.  

Does this mean Roe bought a domain name and the cyber space just for the purpose of filing these cockeyed and dishonest reports on Oliver Stone's film?  Sure looks that way.

Since he did a similar thing on Quora.  He disguised himself under the name Andrew Jackson there in order to rail against the film. I replied to him fairly brusquely and easily.  But you can tell that Andrew Jackson and steveroeconsulitng are the same person since Roe used the same background book arrangement for both.

Would this qualify for sock puppetry?

[Micah Mileto]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

But it actually started earlier, that day, right after the press conference.  Someone grabbed him by the arm, and said "Don't you ever say that again."  That is in the film The Parkland Doctors. 

 

I don't think Dr. McClelland claimed that Perry every told him this, and I don't think Dr. Donald Miller ever claimed to have exclusive information on this story, this story seems to trace back to James Gochenaur in 2007. And we have Gochenaur saying in the 70's that Elmer Moore denied "twisting Perry's arm".

From JFK and the Unspeakable by James W. Douglass, 2008:

 

[...6. Washington and Dallas]

 

Dr. Perry's retraction was not only manipulated but given under stress. He had been threatened beforehand by "the men in suits," specifically the Secret Service. As Dallas Secret Service agent Elmer Moore would admit to a friend years later, he "had been ordered to tell Dr. Perry to change his testimony. " Moore said that in threatening Perry, he acted " on orders from Washington and Mr. Kelly of the Secret Service Headquarters. "555

 

Moore confessed his intimidation of Dr. Perry to a University of Washington graduate student, Jim Gochenaur, with whom he became friendly in Seattle in 1970. Moore told Gochenaur he "had badgered Dr. Perry" into "making a flat statement that there was no entry wound in the neck."556 Moore admitted, " I regret what I had to do with Dr. Perry. "557 However, with his fellow agents, he had been given "marching orders from Washington. " He felt he had no choice: "I did everything I was told, we all did everything we were told, or we'd get our heads cut off. "558 In the cover-up, the men in suits were both the intimidators and the intimidated.

 

[...Notes]

 

555 . House Select Committee witness Jim Gochenaur to interviewer Bob Kelley on Gochenaur's conversations with Secret Service agent Elmer Moore. Notes by Bob Kelley on June 6, 1975; pp. 3-4. JFK Record Number 157-10005-10280.

 

556. From transcribed copy by House Select Committee on Assassinations of taperecorded conversation with James Gochenaur, May 10, 1977, p. 22. JFK Record Number 180-10086-10438.

 

557. Author's interview with Jim Gochenaur, April 28, 2007.

 

558. Moore cited by Gochenaur. HSCA conversation with Gochenaur, May 10, 1977, p. 23. Also Jim Gochenaur's letter to the author, October 23, 2007.

 

Dr. Robert McClelland lecture at Bayor University 10/24/2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSFF8CzJC3g 52:54

 

No, no, no. The only one that I know was warned like that was Dr. Perry, I don't know of anybody, none of the rest of us were ever told, you know, 'keep your mouth shut' or any of that, that was never done, so...

 

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/11/19/as-50th-anniversary-of-assassination-approaches-surgeon-who-treated-jfk-remembers/

 

And like many, Dr. McClelland has struggled to fill in the blanks about the details of the assassination himself. He frequently references one book “of the 32,000 out there” on the event – JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, by James W. Douglass, which argues that military and intelligence agencies in the U.S. are responsible for President Kennedy’s assassination and the subsequent cover-up. According to Douglass, those organizations were upset by JFK’s evolving stance on the Cold War and, desperate to win, they plotted Kennedy’s death because he was “getting in the way” of their plans for a nuclear strike.

 

For McClelland, that book seems to offer answers to the questions he’s been grappling with over the last fifty years – in particular, why his colleague, Dr. Perry, who also treated the President that day, would never speak of the assassination (“If you ever even mentioned the assassination [to Dr. Perry], he would cloud up and say, ‘I don’t talk about that,’ period.”) If you take Douglass at his word, a Secret Service agent approached Perry shortly after he’d given a description of JFK’s wounds to the media – when he’d pointed to his neck and seemed to imply that the entrance wound was there. That agent supposedly threatened Perry, ordering him never to talk about the assassination again…”or else,” Dr. McClelland emphasizes.

 

2014 McClelland interview where he says the following, 24:06: https://www.parklandsurgical.com/home/2014/7/25/a-conversation-with-dr-robert-mcclelland

 

Audience member: I read that Mac Perry originally had said that he characterized the neck wound as a quote 'wound of entrance'. And I also know that subsequent to that, to his dying day, he never spoke about it again.

 

McClelland: He would not say anything to anybody, me or any other- anybody at all, he was just completely- said nothing. Recently I read a book out of all of the some three thousand books that are written about this, and apparently, according to the author of this book, someone had come up to Dr. Perry after he gave his initial testimony- or, not testimony, but initial interview to the many newsmen that were gathered in the grand rounds room at Parkland right after this event happened. And Dr. Perry had made a comment about this being possibly an entrance wound in his neck. And according to this book, and this again is, you know, maybe [inaudible], maybe not. Someone with an American flag in his lapel, you know, you know, you know, Secret Service man, maybe not, came up to him and he said 'Dr. Perry', he said, 'whatever you do, do not ever say that that was an entrance wound again if you know what's good for you'. Other than that, Not only did Dr. Perry never say that was an entrance wound, he never said anything, period, at all about it to me or to anybody else. And he left town right after this event and went down to South Texas where his mother-in-law lived.

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Micah Mileto

[James DiEugenio]

Micah:

Miller's meeting with Perry was alone.  And that is what Perry told him. 

What is in The Parkland Doctors, that happened years before Moore encountered Jim.

So now you have four independent witnesses : The Parkland Doctors witness, McClelland; the nurse who talked to Perry the next day;  Steadman's notes which came from Perry himself; and then Miller much later.

As far as I can see, none of those four had anything to do with Moore.

I mean really, how many independent witnesses do you need? 

Perry changed his story.  And he did so under pressure. Period.

And it looks like Steve Roe has donned disguises in  order to create a disinfo machine.  Has anyone been able to find any kind of legitimate enterprise for steveroeconsulting?  Is it architecture? Is it accounting?  Is it commercial real estate?  It is financing stock purchases?  

 Everyone search for what it is.  Because I have found nothing but JFK stuff.  And look at Quora, that Andrew Jackson alias sure looks like roe.

Sockpuppetry.

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

This is a good interview by Trish Wood out of Toronto with Oliver.  Oliver has gotten much better on the evidence since the first time around.  He is quite good I think on Kennedy, who he was and what he was trying to do.  She tied it in with Ukraine at the end.

As JFK said about the Missile Crisis: it is important to give the other side room to maneuver.  And this is what led to the detente attempt by JFK with Moscow, which Bobby Kennedy knew about.  With Ukraine NATO and American presidents left no room for Moscow to maneuver.  I mean there is a NATO military base one hundred miles from Russia in Poland. 

 

https://twcritical.libsyn.com/director-oliver-stone-how-dark-state-actors-killed-a-president

[Pat Speer]

FWIW, I once spent some time tracking down all the Perry statements regarding the throat wound. And the fact is he never changed his story. He always said that it appeared to be an entrance wound. Under pressure from Moore and perhaps others, he testified that it could have been an exit wound. And he was correct to do so. Emergency room doctors are not trained to analyze wounds as to entrance and exit and studies have shown that they are wrong a large percentage of the time when they guess. 

What is important, however, is that he said it appeared to be an entrance because it was so small. This is inconsistent with its being an exit for a tumbling bullet, as proposed by Lattimer and Baden, etc. Now some have claimed it was so small because the tie limited the stretching of the skin at exit. Under such circumstances an exit wound can appear to be an entrance wound. But Dr. Charles Petty, the HSCA Pathology Panel's top expert on wound ballistics, wrote a textbook during his stint on the HSCA, and claimed that a shored wound of exit is nevertheless larger than the entrance. The HSCA, of course, claimed the back wound was much larger than the throat wound. IOW, Petty knew damn well the small size of the throat wound was a huge problem for the single-assassin solution, and apparently convinced himself and others they should just ignore Perry's assessment of the size of the throat wound, and instead assume it was three or four times larger than he claimed. They made similar assumptions regarding the head wounds and the bullet fragments. IOW, they dismissed problematic evidence whenever it led from the single-assassin solution.

When I first read the report of the HSCA's pathology panel, I was astounded that the supposed experts on the Kennedy assassination medical evidence had missed the many smoking guns within the report. Over and over again, the panel had added footnotes saying basically "We've decided to ignore what the autopsy doctors said regarding the location of the entrance wound on the back of Kennedy's head, and what the Parkland doctors said regarding the size of the throat wound, and, oh yeah, for good measure we've decided to pretend the bullet exited intact, and that the Harper fragment was from the side of the head, not top." These were like arrows pointing the way. They said "We are not following the evidence because the evidence points in a direction deemed unacceptable by our friends in the Justice Department, and because we dare not contradict the findings of Russell Fisher and the Clark Panel." 

This, IMO, should be the focus of discussion on the medical evidence. Why did Baden and the boys dismiss the evidence and deliberately embrace the wrong conclusions?

Now, some have told me they were engaged in confirmation bias. If so, well, then, perhaps the behavior of the WC can be explained away in the same manner. Perhaps, then, the truth of the assassination was not buried by some evil cabal, but buried by an army of dullards more interested in getting ahead and telling their boss what they know he wanted to hear than they were in solving a mystery.

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

"JFK: Destiny Betrayed" Misleads on Dr. Charles Crenshaw (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

[James DiEugenio]

In the statements to Steadman and to Miller, Perry is unequivocal.

It was an entrance wound. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Micah Mileto]

8 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

"JFK: Destiny Betrayed" Misleads on Dr. Charles Crenshaw (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

Weak sauce! Soon I'll post a much better, more concise summary of Crenshaw. 99% of it is already done in a text document. Most of the information linked above is useless in assessing the credibility of Crenshaw.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Micah Mileto

[Micah Mileto]

13 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

 

Does it ever seem like Perry is holding back some information, when he goes back and forth between insisting it was an entry wound and just saying it could've been an exit wound?