JFK Revisited: Through The Looking Glass

[W. Tracy Parnell]

1 hour ago, Steve Roe said:

Tracy, Stone and DiEugenio's "false mysteries" are now being exposed. The Horne piece on Oswald's missing USMC pay was a total sham. Huge embarrassment now to those who think this film is telling the truth. There will be more. 

Keep up the good work. 👍

[W. Tracy Parnell]

"JFK: Destiny Betrayed" Misleads by Claiming Jack Ruby was Signaled (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

[Pat Speer]

26 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

"JFK: Destiny Betrayed" Misleads by Claiming Jack Ruby was Signaled (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

I started to read it but within the first few sentences I had to stop. It was not a busy parking garage filled with cars honking their horns. That's total crap. If there's a legitimate reason for the car honks, it's that the car in which Oswald was to be taken out was backing up into a crowd of people, and the driver wanted them to step aside. As you probably know, the armored car was supposed to be a diversion, and Oswald was supposed to be taken in the car that can be seen in the films. My big question about the whole event is why Fritz jumped so far ahead of Oswald, and then took so long to respond to Ruby's shooting Oswald. As the number one bodyguard, tasked with walking in front of Oswald, and viewing the crowd for suspicious behavior, he could very well have been distracted by the car's backing up. Trying to get the car in the right position could also explain why he stepped ahead of Oswald. But if you watch the news footage, he continues staring away from Oswald for a few seconds after the shot. This suggests to me that he knew what was happening and didn't really want to be a part of it. 

Now, the one area of research which hopefully someone better equipped than I can get at, is if Fritz was told the car was already in place before he came down with Oswald. If so, whoever told him that is the guy to look at. If the car was in its proper position when they came down, after all, Ruby would not have had such easy access to Oswald.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Sandy Larsen]

On 3/15/2022 at 10:45 AM, James DiEugenio said:

I am glad Aaron will be moderating the debate.

 

Well I certainly hope that Aaron Good will make sure Buzzanco responds to your arguments Jim, which would likely mean Buzzanco having to admit he wasn't aware of the existence of key HSCA or ARRB documents.

I recall watching a debate between a conspiracy guy (don't recall who) and John McAdams and McAdams had a way of skirting issues he had no answer for. He'd just say that is was "one of those conspiracy factoids" (something like that) and then proceed to reply with something else that he did have an answer to. No matter how unrelated it might have been. And then his followers would exclaim, oh what a great answer that was!

Buzzanco is certainly going to argue that Kennedy did NOT have a plan for removing advisors/troops from Vietnam, and didn't have behind-the-scenes negotiations going on between himself and Khrushchev. So I hope these claims can be easily dismissed with documents and arguments that the audience can absorb.

 

[James DiEugenio]

Yes, this should be interesting Sandy.

 

And I think Aaron will do a nice job moderating.  It will be taped I think on the 28th.  And Aaron will put it up publicly after that.

[James DiEugenio]

This is why I have Parnell on ignore.  

Because he is simply a pom pom cheerleader for Fred.

We did not mislead anyone in that sequence.

We presented it in its original form for the audience to see.

What do I mean by that?  The original NBC feed has been edited so that many people see a sequence with just one horn. In fact that is what I thought it was, one horn.  Why do that editing?  Why not let the public see the unedited version.  Which is what we did.

As Greg Parker has proven, Fritz was not supposed to break the formation like that.  But he did.  The other part that makes this weird is that Fritz does not look back after the gunshot goes off.

What Pat is writing is how the Warren Report excused it all.

Edited March 16, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Let me add to this since I should give credit to whom it is due.

Ray Marcus called me up many years ago and this is how the call went:

RM: Jim, what version of Ruby shooting Oswald do you have?

JD: What are you talking about Ray, which version?

As the reader can see I was unaware of what he was about to inform me of.

RM: Do you ave the one with no horns, one horn, or two horns?

JD: Well, one horn of course.

RM: You have the edited one then. 

JD: Ray, what are you talking about the edited one?

RM: Jim, I will send you the live feed and then you will understand.  I am also going to send you a note with a clipping about Ruby referring to those horns.

 

Well, he sent me the original  NBC live feed.  To say I was surprised is an understatement.  Because as you can see from the unedited version, its quite obvious why they edit it.  I felt the viewer should have the unedited version at their disposal.  Our side is supposed to be for that kind of thing.  Parnell or course is not.

The clipping that Ray sent me was IIRC from a St. Louis newspaper, perhaps Dudman wrote it .  It had Ruby referring to a biblical reference about Gabriel blowing horns and him being ready when he heard them.  Ray enclosed a note saying something like, Jim, did Ruby strike you as being all that religious?  I replied no, plus he was supposed to be Jewish.

Edited March 17, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Let me add to this since I should give credit to whom it is due.

Ray Marcus called me up many years ago and this is how the call went:

RM: Jim, what version of Ruby shooting Oswald do you have?

JD: What are you talking about Ray, which version?

As the reader can see I was unaware of what he was about to inform me of.

RM: Do you ave the one with no horns, one horn, or two horns?

JD: Well, one horn of course.

RM: You have the edited one then. 

JD: Ray, what are you talking about the edited one?

RM: Jim, I will send you the live feed and then you will understand.  I am also going to send you a note with a clipping about Ruby referring to those horns.

 

Well, he sent me the original  NBC live feed.  To say I was surprised is an understatement.  Because as you can see from the unedited version, its quite obvious why they edit it.  I felt the viewer should have the unedited version at their disposal.  Our side is supposed to be for that kind of thing.  Parnell or course is not.

The clipping that Ray sent me was IIRC from a St. Louis newspaper, perhaps Dudman wrote it .  It had Ruby referring to a biblical reference about Gabriel blowing horns and him being ready when he heard them.  Ray enclosed a note saying something like, Jim, did Ruby strike you as being all that religious?  I replied no, plus he was supposed to be Jewish.

Gabriel is in the Old Testament. 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

"JFK: Destiny Betrayed" Misleads on Otto Otepka (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

[James DiEugenio]

He is also in the New Testament, Luke.

[Joe Bauer]

The morning of 11,24,1963 I was watching on live national TV as Oswald was being led down the DPD building parking garage corridor while handcuffed to his two police escorts and then being shot by Ruby.

The television news correspondent was commenting "and here he comes" or something like that when suddenly ... "BAM!"

The gun shot sound was very loud over the TV. There must have been microphones positioned fairly close to the front line of the press crowd and I am sure they were turned on to maximum sensitivity in order to catch anything Oswald may have said to any reporter's questions shouted at him.

Hence it was like you were "right there" as far as loudness. The loud "BAM" jolted me and I am sure millions of others who had just heard it on live TV.

I mention the loudness of Ruby's 38 gun shot into Oswald's gut because if it was that loud to TV viewers, imagine how loud it must have been to everyone actually in that corridor just feet from the shooting and to the press crowd also just feet away on the parking side of the ramp?

Now regards to Captain Will Fritz;

I saw Fritz during the Oswald corridor walk and Ruby shooting coverage.

I watched him separate from and walk many feet ahead of Oswald as they approached the press crowd.

In re-watching the entire clip over and over like millions of other TV viewers, I was struck by Fritz's actions. It seemed curious to me that he would spontaneously drift off and away from Oswald right as Oswald was getting closer to the press line. 

In that heightened Oswald security minded situation it all seemed so odd as were Fritz's body movements next to the car ( waving his arms in slow motion to keep non-existent crowds away? ) and even his facial expression seemed confused, or lost looking? Like someone afflicted with dementia?

And since when does the "head man" of a big city homicide department do the duty of a flunky underling in opening doors of police cars for suspects and the chief himself? 

But most striking was Fritz's seeming obliviousness to the actual BOOMING gun shot sound.

Everyone else physically jumped or flinched or showed at least some reaction to that big bang. They probably even "felt" it's concussive energy.

But, zombie slow motion acting Fritz didn't seem to even notice! Was he deaf -drugged - or just out of it?

He didn't even turn around to look at the frantic and loud shouting scene behind him for a couple of seconds!

It reminded me of people in rest homes or someone so drunk their reaction time to shouts at them is delayed by seconds.

Also, as Oswald first appeared from the back entrance part of the corridor and was being walked closer toward the press crowd...I was sickened at how "open" he was.

Even at 12 years of age, and knowing that Oswald was one of the top two or three the most threatened criminal suspects in American history, I fully expected him to be completely surrounded by a full circle "wall" of police escort security.

Instead Oswald was literally paraded wide open and even a little ahead at times by just two side escorts?

My goodness, it was like "here he is" to anyone who may have infiltrated the press crowd and wanted to get a crack at Oswald.

And of course, tragically, this is exactly what happened.

However, it was all just naively inexperienced bad luck on the part of Chief Curry, Captain Fritz and the Dallas PD. Right?

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Greg Doudna]

On 3/15/2022 at 9:45 AM, James DiEugenio said:

When Aaron Good interviewed Peter Scott for his fine series about Stone's  documentary, he said that Chomsky and Zinn did not want to print his early essay on Kennedy's withdrawal attempt as part of the Gravel edition of the Pentagon Papers.

They said, it will make it look like president's matter.

That is not writing history, its writing ideology.

When Ray Marcus struck up a dialogue with Zinn back in 1993 over Stone's feature film, he said that if the Pentagon had a role in killing Kennedy, they judged him wrong.

This is why I find it so difficult to argue with these kinds of what i call doctrinaire/Pacifica styled leftists.  How does one deal with that kind of logic and reasoning?

I am glad Aaron will be moderating the debate. I would not meet Buzzanco on his own show.

Are you sure about the Chomsky part of that? There is a rumor that Peter Dale Scott has said differently (source is hearsay so unfortunately unable to confirm--I tried to find the Aaron Good podcast to which you refer to check but could not find it). Represented as from Peter Dale Scott:

"James DiEugenio misquoted me. I said that Zinn tried to dissuade me from submitting the essay. Chomsky, who had been out of the country, was happy to print it. (Perhaps, I speculated, so he could later write a whole book attacking it.)" 

[Karl Kinaski]

BTW Across the basement parking lot behind the TV cameras was a first aid room. They did not put Oswald there but in the line up room. (After he was shot.)

Edited March 19, 2022 by Karl Kinaski

[W. Tracy Parnell]

The Enabling of Oliver Stone (onthetrailofdelusion.com)

[James DiEugenio]

If you watch the exceptional clips in the film Evidence of Revision you will see that Ruby is hiding behind Blackie Harrison prior to jumping out and killing Oswald.

Whenever someone would bring this up, Jack would explode in rage.

Geez, I wonder why the networks do not show that clip?  Maybe the same reason they edit out the horns?