New Photographic Proof: Todd's Initials on 399!

[Greg Doudna]

On 6/17/2022 at 8:54 AM, Gary Murr said:

 

Hello Pat:

Understandably I have been following this thread with some interest and appreciate not only your even-handed responses but also all comments generated by those who have an opinion on this subject matter. Yes, we all make mistakes/errors and it is only through an understanding and where applicable revelation and correction of errors that the case will ever move forward. Given that you believe the Todd "ET is not a recent addition" I would like your opinion on the comparative black and white photographs I present on the document attached herein. This image is from a previously unprinted FBI lab generated 4 X 5 view camera negative discovered by John Hunt at NARA.

NIST initials comparison.docx 2.02 MB · 24 downloads

Gary what I see in that black-and-white photo of CE 399 before the sample was cut out from the tip (therefore a very early photo) is this: I see the "T", left crossbar plus full downstroke (right part of the crossbar presumably also there but fades into shadow so unverified). I cannot verify any part of the "E" however.

However the "T" is quite clear, and I do not believe John Hunt identified that "T" mark as anything, since it is not part of the three sets of initials which he did identify.

Therefore the "T" at least is verified not a later forgery. The inability to verify the "E" I assume is an accident of deficiency in the photography but that is simply my inference based on the "T" clearly being there. 

On the left part of the "T" crossbar, in the photo there appears to be a "longer" top horizontal line and below it a "shorter" horizontal line; I am seeing only the "shorter" lower horizontal line as corresponding to the "T" in the NIST photo. The longer top horizontal line is puzzling, but again the static vs. signal issue arises in straining to interpret these photographs. However the downstroke of the "T" is unambiguously a human mark; it is not accounted for otherwise; and it agrees exactly with the "T" in the NIST photo.

No claim to infallibility here and others may see more clearly and accurately, but this is my report. 

[Micah Mileto]

Is there any chance there could be a similar problem with other instances in the case where it has been claimed that initials are missing from slugs or shell casings?

[Sandy Larsen]

 

I believe that the supposed vertical line of the "T" seen in the Hunt photo is too far below the tip of the bullet to really be what we see in the NIST bullet.

And yet that vertical line in the Hunt photo can't be seen in the NIST photo.

These two incongruities need to be reconciled.

It is my belief that 1) the ET seen in the NIST photo is a late addition, and 2) the vertical line seen in the Hunt photo has been photoshopped out of the NIST image so that it doesn't interfere with identifying the ET.

In short, I believe that the Hunt photo disproves what the NIST photo shows and not the other way around.

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Sandy Larsen

[Jonathan Cohen]

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

In short, I believe that the Hunt photo disproves what the NIST photo shows and not the other way around.

And naturally, you are the only one now clinging to the belief that Todd's initials aren't there, even when Dr. Mantik himself has acknowledged his earlier mistake. Not surprising, considering you believe that nearly every piece of evidence in this case is fake, and that there were two Lee Harvey Oswald and Marguerite Oswalds running amok across the Southeastern United States.

[Sandy Larsen]

44 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

And naturally, you are the only one now clinging to the belief that Todd's initials aren't there, even when Dr. Mantik himself has acknowledged his earlier mistake. Not surprising, considering you believe that nearly every piece of evidence in this case is fake, and that there were two Lee Harvey Oswald and Marguerite Oswalds running amok across the Southeastern United States.

 

Stalking me again, are ya?

When are you gonna explain to everybody how it would be possible for Ruth Paine to know that Oswald was a CIA agent, just because he stayed in her house? As you mockingly claimed a few days ago.

 

[Jonathan Cohen]

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

When are you gonna explain to everybody how it would be possible for Ruth Paine to know that Oswald was a CIA agent, just because he stayed in her house? As you mockingly claimed a few days ago.

Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. What I disputed was your evidence-free theory that both Ruth and Lee were independently working for the CIA and had no idea that the other was as well.

[Steve Roe]

11 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I believe that the supposed vertical line of the "T" seen in the Hunt photo is too far below the tip of the bullet to really be what we see in the NIST bullet.

And yet that vertical line in the Hunt photo can't be seen in the NIST photo.

These two incongruities need to be reconciled.

It is my belief that 1) the ET seen in the NIST photo is a late addition, and 2) the vertical line seen in the Hunt photo has been photoshopped out of the NIST image so that it doesn't interfere with identifying the ET.

In short, I believe that the Hunt photo disproves what the NIST photo shows and not the other way around.

 

Tammi Long of the ARRB verified the chain of custody in the 1990's. Everything is not conspiratorial Sandy. How did someone sneak into the National Archives and scribble the initials? Ruth Paine and LHO CIA Agents? That is beyond reality Sandy. 

[Sandy Larsen]

[deleted]

Edited June 27, 2022 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

41 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. What I disputed was your evidence-free theory that both Ruth and Lee were independently working for the CIA and had no idea that the other was as well.

 

Oh I see. According to you then, Ruth would know only that Oswald worked for the CIA, but wouldn't know that he was an agent of the CIA.

So what then? She would think he was a CIA office worker?  A CIA clerk working out of the TSBD? A CIA psychiatrist?

LOL

[Jonathan Cohen]

15 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Oh I see. According to you then, Ruth would know only that Oswald worked for the CIA, but wouldn't know that he was an agent of the CIA.

Uhhh, no. Completely wrong for many reasons, chief among them being that Ruth Paine was not employed by the CIA in any way, shape or form. What I am objecting to is the preposterous notion on your part that these two alleged CIA agents were going about their government business at the exact same time in the same town, often in the same home, but that their handlers saw it fit to never mention this to either of them.

[Sandy Larsen]

23 minutes ago, Steve Roe said:

Tammi Long of the ARRB verified the chain of custody in the 1990's. Everything is not conspiratorial Sandy. How did someone sneak into the National Archives and scribble the initials? Ruth Paine and LHO CIA Agents? That is beyond reality Sandy. 

 

The initials aren't on the Hunt photo. Either he removed them from his photo or someone added them to the bullet before NIST photographed it.

The vertical line on the bullet in the Hunt photo is in the wrong place to be part of the T that is seen in the NIST photo. It is too low.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

34 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Uhhh, no. Completely wrong for many reasons, chief among them being that Ruth Paine was not employed by the CIA in any way, shape or form. What I am objecting to is the preposterous notion on your part that these two alleged CIA agents were going about their government business at the exact same time in the same town, often in the same home, but that their handlers saw it fit to never mention this to either of them.

 

You have changed what you are objecting to. Okay.

In intelligence agencies there is a concept called compartmentalization. Here is how Wikipedia summarizes the concept:

Compartmentalization, in information security, whether public or private, is the limiting of access to information to persons or other entities on a need-to-know basis to perform certain tasks. It originated in the handling of classified information in military and intelligence applications. .... The basis for compartmentalization is the idea that, if fewer people know the details of a mission or task, the risk or likelihood that such information will be compromised or fall into the hands of the opposition is decreased.

There would be no reason for Ruth or Oswald to know that each other was working for the CIA unless they had to in order to accomplish a shared mission. 

 

[Denis Morissette]

It will be great when they stop suppressing the photos Hunt took.

[Paul Cummings]

Just what we all wanted another Hijack thread between Larsen and Cohen. You guys need to settle some issues privately. 

[Jonathan Cohen]

36 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Just what we all wanted another Hijack thread between Larsen and Cohen. You guys need to settle some issues privately. 

I didn't hijack this thread! Sandy resurfaced something from an entirely different thread and is now falsely claiming I have "changed" my objection to his theory - I won't respond further in this one.