For Pat Speer: JFK Secret Service Agent Sam Kinney's neighbor's (Gary Loucks) revelations

[Vince Palamara]

 

[Joe Bauer]

I've listened to this audio several times in the few years since you first posted it VP.

It leaves you pondering many questions.

Did this neighbor feel that Kinney was inferring a belief that LBJ was in some way involved with the JFK killing when Kinney told him to look at who had the most to gain by it ?

The neighbor doesn't quite commit to Kinney saying this with conviction.

Did the neighbor actually state that Kinney found the magic bullet while cleaning the limo and planted it on a stretcher in Parkland?

All kinds of questions pop into mind here.

At what point in time did Kinney actually plant the bullet on the stretcher?

How could that relatively undamaged bullet have found it's way into the limo in that condition?

What purpose motivated Kinney to plant the bullet on the stretcher?

 

[Vince Palamara]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

I've listened to this audio several times in the few years since you first posted it VP.

It leaves you pondering many questions.

Did this neighbor feel that Kinney was inferring a belief that LBJ was in some way involved with the JFK killing when Kinney told him to look at who had the most to gain by it ?

The neighbor doesn't quite commit to Kinney saying this with conviction.

Did the neighbor actually state that Kinney found the magic bullet while cleaning the limo and planted it on a stretcher in Parkland?

All kinds of questions pop into mind here.

At what point in time did Kinney actually plant the bullet on the stretcher?

How could that relatively undamaged bullet have found it's way into the limo in that condition?

What purpose motivated Kinney to plant the bullet on the stretcher?

 

I am on the fence about this whole thing. On the one hand, Kinney (in conversations I had between 1992-1994) told me he believed there was a conspiracy, that all three shots made their mark with no missed shot, and that he had THE piece of the back of JFK's head when he was on the C-130 transport plane with the limousines heading back to D.C., all of which is corroborated with his 1978 HSCA interview released in 1996 via the ARRB. Kinney never espoused some of these other things Loucks is alleging to either myself or to the HSCA (and he passed away in 1997). So, we have Loucks word for all of this, while my interviews were recorded (one of the main ones is online [audio] on my you Tube channel), while the HSCA transcript is public domain.

Loucks is like that Parkland nurse who came forward in 2013 for the 50th anniversary: came and went.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Vince Palamara

[Chris Bristow]

The reasoning given for why Kinney moved ce399 from the limo to the stretcher makes no sense to me. He took ce399 out of the limo because "He wanted to get the car cleaned up"? The limo had JFK's brains all over the back seat, how does removing a bullet help clean it up at all? It is completely nonsensical.
   "He didn't want the president to be remembered like that". Like what? finding the bullet on the stretcher as opposed to the limo somehow preserves what JFK was "remembered" as?
 This story defies logic. I know people can act strange in such circumstances but even that explanation falls way short. imo.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Chris Bristow

[Vince Palamara]

3 minutes ago, Chris Bristow said:

The reasoning given for why Kinney moved ce399 from the limo to the stretcher makes no sense to me. He took ce399 out of the limo because "He wanted to get the car cleaned up"? The limo had JFK's brains all over the back seat, how does removing a bullet help clean it up at all? It is completely nonsensical.
   "He didn't want the president to be remembered like that". Like what? finding the bullet on the stretcher as opposed to the limo somehow preserves what JFK was "remembered" as?
 This story defies logic. I know people can act strange in such circumstances but even that explanation falls way short. imo.

I tend to agree. It is hard to dismiss Loucks "revelations" as a whole, but, at the same time, I am skeptical, especially based on my own interviews with Kinney (2 in all) which pre-date the release of the 1978 HSCA interview with Kinney in 1996 by the ARRB, Kinney's death in 1997 and Loucks revelations in 2013.

[Vince Palamara]

One of three lengthy interviews I did with the follow-up car driver on 11/22/63 (and countless other trips) 1994. Sam confirms that he was solely responsible for the bubble top's removal on 11/22/63; the right rear of JFK's head was gone AND he had the skull piece while on the C-130 transport plane; his windshield was splattered with blood; he believes in conspiracy; no missed shots- all 3 shots made their mark; JFK did NOT order the agents off his limo; confirms that Emory Roberts did indeed order the other agents not to move during the assassination (yet gives it a "benign" spin); etc. 

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:54 PM, Vince Palamara said:

I am on the fence about this whole thing. On the one hand, Kinney (in conversations I had between 1992-1994) told me he believed there was a conspiracy, that all three shots made their mark with no missed shot, and that he had THE piece of the back of JFK's head when he was on the C-130 transport plane with the limousines heading back to D.C., all of which is corroborated with his 1978 HSCA interview released in 1996 via the ARRB. Kinney never espoused some of these other things Loucks is alleging to either myself or to the HSCA (and he passed away in 1997). So, we have Loucks word for all of this, while my interviews were recorded (one of the main ones is online [audio] on my you Tube channel), while the HSCA transcript is public domain.

Loucks is like that Parkland nurse who came forward in 2013 for the 50th anniversary: came and went.

Is THE piece of JFK's skull Kinney says he had on the flight back to DC the same one that Constable Seymore Weitzman said was found in the street behind and to the left of the JFK limo head shot spot location near the curb?

Edited July 5, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Vince Palamara]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Is THE piece of JFK's skull Kinney says he had on the flight back to DC the same one that Constable Seymore Weitzman said was found in the street behind and to the left of the JFK limo head shot spot location near the curb near the grass standing eye witness Charles Brehm who also claimed he saw the skull piece?

Hi, Joe! No--totally different. Sam said "mine was a big piece."

[Joe Bauer]

"Two bone pieces blown away from JFK's skull?

Kinney says the one he had was the "big one?"

I don't think the skull piece blown onto the street behind and to the left of JFK's limo was real small.

Blood and brain matter spray onto the two rear following Dallas motorcycle patrolmen? Kinney's windshield covered in blood. Brain and blood sprayed all over the back seat of the limo. Two sections of JFK's blown apart skull go flying. Jackie grabs and holds onto a piece of her husband's brain which she eventually hands off to one of the Parkland hospital ER doctors?

How much brain matter and blood and skull can one man's head contain and be so widely dispersed like that?

Edited July 5, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Joseph McBride]

Bill Moyers testified to the HSCA that he gave the

order to remove the bubbletop from the limousine

before the motorcade began at Love Field.

[Vince Palamara]

1 hour ago, Joseph McBride said:

Bill Moyers testified to the HSCA that he gave the

order to remove the bubbletop from the limousine

before the motorcade began at Love Field.

Kinney disputed that. I always found that bizarre because Moyers had no authority to do so. This would be tantamount to a Kamala Harris aide telling a Joe Biden Secret Service agent to do something...not going to happen.

[Joseph McBride]

It did seem irregular, but Moyers was a key

advance man for Kennedy's Texas trip, and

LBJ was his boss. Moyers also helped

publicize the motorcade route. The Secret Service and the

politicians often get into turf battles, even though

the Secret Service is supposed to have the last

word on security matters. It's odd that Moyers

has never written the autobiography that would

have been expected from him, but he has too many

controversial actions to hide.

[Vince Palamara]

9 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

It did seem irregular, but Moyers was a key

advance man for Kennedy's Texas trip, and

LBJ was his boss. Moyers also helped

publicize the motorcade route. The Secret Service and the

politicians often get into turf battles, even though

the Secret Service is supposed to have the last

word on security matters. It's odd that Moyers

has never written the autobiography that would

have been expected from him, but he has too many

controversial actions to hide.

I do agree and believe in his role in publicizing the route.

NOT Betty Forsling Harris [1988 video]*;

NOT Forrest Sorrels (as claimed by Jim Lehrer) [2013 video]**;

NOT JFK [famous mythology]. It was Sam Kinney's sole decision, as he was adamant to me on 3 occasions [audio excerpt included + A COUP IN CAMELOT excerpt] and to the Today show 11/22/93***.

Also included are all the films and photos depicting the bubble top being used in good weather motorcades- approximately one third of all of JFK’s motorcades.

* Despite Bill Moyers HSCA testimony, Kinney disputed his claim of responsibility. I always found that bizarre because Moyers had no authority to do so. This would be tantamount to a Kamala Harris aide telling a Joe Biden Secret Service agent to do something...not going to happen.

**Kinney disputed this, as well. As a local DALLAS agent, Sorrels did not have the authority that the White House Detail agents had.

***Kinney is also pictured putting the top ON the limo at Parkland after the assassination.

[Pat Speer]

9 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

"Two bone pieces blown away from JFK's skull?

Kinney says the one he had was the "big one?"

I don't think the skull piece blown onto the street behind and to the left of JFK's limo was real small.

It was big enough for bystander eyewitness Charles Brehm to see it fly off JFK's head and land in the street 15 feet from him.

Blood and brain matter spray onto the two rear following Dallas motorcycle patrolmen? Kinney's windshield covered in blood. Brain and blood sprayed all over the back seat of the limo. Two sections JFK's blown apart skull go flying. Jackie grabs and holds onto a piece of her husband's brain which she eventually hands off to one of the Parkland hospital ER doctors?

How much brain matter and blood and skull can one man's head contain and be so widely dispersed like that?

The bone found by Kinney was the large triangular fragment subsequently x-rayed at Bethesda. I can't recall, Vince, Did Kinney say it had hair on it? 

[Vince Palamara]

13 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

The bone found by Kinney was the large triangular fragment subsequently x-rayed at Bethesda. I can't recall, Vince, Did Kinney say it had hair on it? 

Hi, Pat! From my first book:

Sam stated, “I saw all three shots hit,” without acknowledging the known missed shot(s); even Governor Connally and Dave Powers did not acknowledge a missed shot.151 In regard to JFK’s head wound, the author inquired, “Was the back of Kennedy’s head really gone?” To which Kinney responded, “Yeah … He had no brain left – it was blown out. Clint Hill and I unloaded him out of the car. There was nothing left … [it was] the whole back of the head as far as I am concerned. I saw it hit and I saw his hair come out … I had brain matter all over my windshield and left arm, that’s how close we were to it … it was the right rear part of his head152 … because that’s the part I saw blow out. I saw hair come out, the piece blow out, then the skin went back in – an explosion in and out.”153 Elaborating further, Sam said, after being told that’s where the Parkland doctors saw the wound, “I would say that, too … it involved half his head.” Asked to explain the 1500 gram brain at the autopsy (the upper limit of a normal, undamaged brain), Sam seemed perplexed, saying, “there was brain matter all over the place. Mr. Connally even said he was covered with it.” Sam also said, in regard to the “Today” show interview of 11/22/93,154 “I told them ‘I’m going to tell you some things that haven’t been in books yet’: I brought a piece of the President’s skull back in my suit pocket. Now, all these books are wondering about this hole, this unbelievable missing part. I got the answer to that but nobody’s called me … I went over that automobile coming home … I found it on the plane [C-130] in the car and I put a phone patch in to Admiral Burkley155 who was a very good friend of mine – he was one hell of a man; I’ve got his picture hanging on my wall along with the president’s and I thought just as much of him as I did them.” Returning to the skull fragment, Kinney added that it looked “like a piece of a flowerpot, clean as a pin … like piece of a clay pot – there wasn’t blood or hair or anything on it … I don’t know what else it could have been but the back of his head … mine was a big piece … I told him [Burkley], ‘I may have something that is crucial to the autopsy’ … I gave it [the fragment] to one of his aides [Tommy Mills].” Interestingly, Sam was aware of the separate “Harper” fragment found 11/23/63,156 as was fellow agent Clint Hill.15