Ted Callaway & The 1:15 Shooting

[Ron Ege]

In his April 24, 1964 sworn testimony, Benevides said pretty much the same thing; " . . . After that, I set (sic) there for just a few minutes . . . "

According to the dictionary, "few" cannot be one but can be as low as two.

In his later testimony that day, whether that earlier, particular recollection regarding the time frame was accurate or not, it does not seem that his description of the shooter did not fit LHO.

[Ron Ege]

24 minutes ago, Ron Ege said:

In his April 24, 1964 sworn testimony, Benevides said pretty much the same thing; " . . . After that, I set (sic) there for just a few minutes . . . "

According to the dictionary, "few" cannot be one but can be as low as two.

In his later testimony that day, whether that earlier, particular recollection regarding the time frame was accurate or not, it does not seem that his description of the shooter did not fit LHO.

Should've read, " . . . it does seem . . . "

[Steve Roe]

5 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Big deal. That's only 2 hours after Oswald was brought to the City Hall.

And what's the beef again with the gun being marked in Westbrook's office? ~shrug~

Sounds like a bunch of nit-picking to me.

 

David, I sorry but I have to take issue with you here on this Tippit Shooting and the so-called other overwhelming evidence against the Patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald. Everyone knows your history of being bias, and out to get an innocent man convicted of a crime he never committed. So respectfully I’m going to lay out some of the evidence here for your consideration in hopes it might change your mind. If it’s any consolation, I was accused of being bias myself, and this new evidence may change my mind.

1.       Marina Oswald identified her husband jackets to the Warren Commission. The blue jacket left at the TSBD and the Gray Jacket (CE162 – the jacket found under a car behind the Ballew Texaco Station). FALSE: Marina was threatened with deportation and was forced to lie under oath. Everyone knows that! The Warren Commission staff knew it too, that’s why they twisted her testimony around to convict Oswald in the public’s eyes. You really need to study the Deep State better.

2.       Earlene Roberts testified that Oswald left the Beckley Rooming house zipping up a jacket. FALSE: Greg Parker and the ROKC research staff proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Oswald never lived at the Beckley Rooming house. If James DiEugenio thinks Greg Parker is a top notched researcher exposing the WC myths, that’s good enough for me!

3.       Oswald owned the Smith-Wesson.38 revolver that killed Officer Tippit; he bought it mail order from Seaport Traders in Los Angeles. FALSE: Oswald while working at Jagger-Chiles-Stovall was contacted by the secret Dodd Committee to order the pistol to expose mail order gun companies. He did it out of his patriotic duty. A secret Todd Committee handler gave Oswald the “True Adventures” magazine and clipped out the order coupon. All Deep State stuff, David.

4.       The serial number on the revolver matched Seaport Trader’s paperwork. FALSE: Captain Pinky Westbrook of the DPD made sure the serial numbers matched because he was working with the CIA. We know this because he was sent to Vietnam to work with the CIA. Again, you need to bone up on the Deep State.

5.       Oswald shot Officer Tippit. FALSE: It was Larry Crafard and Harry Olsen that did it. After Crafard shot Tippit, he was driven back to Ruby’s Carousel Club by Harry Olsen. I know Olsen was on crutches, but Crafard helped Olsen drive using his own foot on the accelerator and brakes. Crafard faked going back to sleep when Ruby’s bartender, Andy Armstrong woke him up in the backroom. Crafard I’m sure was exhausted after committing this murder. Go ahead and laugh, get it out of your system.

6.       Tippit was Badgeman. TRUE: Author Joseph McBride almost proved this. Marie Tippit could not pin down the exact time JD Tippit came home to eat lunch. She failed to record the lunch time on her notepad at home. That is highly suspicious!

7.       The Postal Code on the Klein’s envelope was “12”; someone other than Oswald mailed that money order to Chicago away from the General Post Office on Ervay Street. TRUE: James DiEugenio and John Armstrong proved that! Come on David, you need to study postal zones in Dallas. You may take issue with that statement by DiEugenio, but it was proven that Marina Oswald herself mailed a letter to Ruth Paine (the CIA handler) from the 214 West Neely Street apartment with a map of where she lived. On that letter was the Postal Code “15”. That postal code was in South Dallas, south of Fair Park, way across the Trinity River. We know that Marina took her baby in a stroller and walked a distance of some 15 miles, just to mail that letter!

8.       Johnny Brewer was a conspirator in setting up Oswald to be captured. TRUE: We know the CIA often uses front companies to carry on their covert activities. Hardy Shoes on Jefferson Blvd was one of them. You may laugh at this, but where do you think the TV producers of the 1965 series, “Get Smart” got the idea of a shoe phone for Secret Agent Maxell Smart? Huh? Yep, Hardy Shoes. All Deep State.

9.       Oswald didn’t shoot Officer Tippit, again. TRUE: Oswald was instructed by his handler to go get his Dodd Committee pistol and load the cylinder. It was a mere coincidence that the same .38 bullet shells of Remington-Peters and Western Cartridge were found on 10^th and Patton that were found in Oswald’s Dodd pistol. His handler instructed him to meet him at the Texas Theater to receive further instructions. Because the Texas Theater was a dangerous place to be on a Friday matinee, his handler advised him to carry extra ammo in his pocket in case one of the patrons who did murder Officer Tippit was there. All foreknowledge of the Big Event, Deep State all the way!  

 

[Charles Blackmon]

2 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

David, I sorry but I have to take issue with you here

 

Is this kind of nonsense post going to be the new norm? 

[Gil Jesus]

1 hour ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Is this kind of nonsense post going to be the new norm? 

Notice that he doesn't post any evidence or citations. It's just a long narrative.

This is the same guy who has serious problems with accuracy in Jim DiEugenio's new book ?

His #8 in particular made me laugh.

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks Gil, and I will be replying to Roe on that point.

[Tom Gram]

10 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

And what's the beef again with the gun being marked in Westbrook's office? ~shrug~

Maybe nothing David, but a defense attorney sure as hell wouldn’t see it that way, nor would a jury. There’s no chain of evidence from the crime scene.

All the defense would need to do is call McDonald and ask him how he knows that the gun he initialed was the same gun he recovered from Oswald. 

Then they could call Carroll and ask him if he ever lost sight of Hill from the time he gave Hill the gun to the time he initialed it. 

Then they could call Bentley. There goes the official chain of custody, and God knows what else.

Then they could call Walker. There goes Hill’s credibility. 

They could cap it off by calling in the FBI agent who recovered the paper-bag .38 on the 23rd. 

That’s what you call a reasonable doubt in any courtroom in America. It doesn’t matter if the gun was actually planted, switched, etc. The arresting officers exposed themselves to an acquittal by mishandling it, period. This is hardly cherry-picking, it’s how a real trial of Oswald for the Tippit murder could have played out. The officers were either incredibly careless, or up to no good. There is no way around it. 

[James DiEugenio]

Recall, as I said in the other thread, Westbrook was a personnel director.

What was the gun doing in his office?

[Bill Brown]

10 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

I posted his testimony. That's what he said. If you don't want to believe it, that's your problem.

Show me the evidence that the Davises ( they were sisters-in-law, not sisters ) or Markham were at the patrol car "tending to Tippit."

While you're at it, don't forget to name the witness who said the shooting was at 1:15.

 

"I posted his testimony. That's what he said. If you don't want to believe it, that's your problem."

 

And I posted Benavides' 1967 interview with Eddie Barker (The Warren Report, part 3, CBS) where he said he waited for the killer to get around the corner and then sat in his truck for "a second or two" before getting out and going over to the patrol car.

 

Which makes more sense?  That he waited maybe thirty seconds after the killer disappeared around the corner before getting out... or that he was still cowering down inside his truck a few minutes later while others began milling around the body?  Set your bias aside and just answer the question honestly.

 

But hey, if you want to be foolish about even the simplest things, then go right ahead.

 

 

"Show me the evidence that the Davises ( they were sisters-in-law, not sisters ) or Markham were at the patrol car "tending to Tippit.""

 

Witnesses went over to the area of the body and the patrol car after the killer was gone.  Learn the evidence.

 

And yes, Barbara and Virginia were sisters-in-law.  So what?  It's much easier to simply call them the Davis sisters when discussing them.  Does this really matter?

 

 

"While you're at it, don't forget to name the witness who said the shooting was at 1:15."

 

Straw-man.  I haven't said that a witness said the shooting occurred at 1:15.

[Bill Brown]

On 7/14/2022 at 8:19 PM, James DiEugenio said:

The above just hints at all the new info that has turned up on the Tippit case in the intervening years.

What the WR did in the Tippit case was just about a joke.  Maybe worse  than the JFK case.  

I mean, see how many of these major characters are even mentioned in the Warren Report in the Tippit section.  To me, today, you cannot tell that story without them.

I mean why was Mentzel not called to be "at large  for any emergency that might come in".  (12:54 message) Yet Tippit  supposedly did get that message on the radio. And allegedly acknowledged it.

That message was so odd and so ominous that McBride titled Chapter 12 of his book with it. I mean, first, move into Oak Cliff, then be at large for any emergency that might come in?  Sylvia Meagher said, considering what happened at 12:30, this was rather bizarre. (McBride, p. 425)

Dispatcher Murray Jackson told a whopper when he said he gave the order about Oak Cliff since the officers were drained from there.  This was not true since Mentzel was there.(McBride, p. 423) Aware this was problematic, Jackson changed his story for the HSCA.  So again, both the evidence and the excuse changed.

"I mean why was Mentzel not called to be "at large  for any emergency that might come in".  (12:54 message) Yet Tippit  supposedly did get that message on the radio. And allegedly acknowledged it."

 

Murray Jackson (the dispatcher) explained that the "at large" comment was an inside joke between the two from the days when they patrolled together.

[Bill Brown]

On 7/15/2022 at 1:31 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Now we come to Mr. Westbrook:

 

The first tremor occurred in 1995 when Dallas FBI agent James Hosty published his book on the Kennedy case entitled Assignment Oswald. In that book he revealed a stunning piece of information, one that had been concealed for 32 years. Hosty wrote that his FBI colleague Bob Barrett had told him something unusual occurred at the scene of the Tippit murder. Barrett told him that one of the policemen, Captain Westbrook, asked him if he had ever heard of a Lee Harvey Oswald. When Barrett said he had not, he then asked him: How about an Alek Hidell? Again, Barrett replied he had not. As Barrett was answering the questions, Westbrook was leafing through a wallet found at the scene.

This extraordinary development was raised from the realm of memory into that of fact when a film from TV station WFAA was later uncovered. That film shows three policemen handling the wallet at the scene of the Tippit murder.

Since we have no report from Barrett filed at any time over assassination weekend (or even decades later, for that matter), it becomes obvious that this did not take place at the scene.

 

However, Barrett was indeed in Westbrook's office (where the theater wallet was, too) almost immediately after Oswald and the arresting party arrived at headquarters.  Westbrook probably asked Barret about the Oswald and Hidell names while going through the wallet once back in his office after Oswald (and the wallet) arrived at headquarters.

[Bill Brown]

On 7/14/2022 at 9:09 PM, Bill Brown said:

"So anyone who begins a thread on the Tippit case with Callaway, who thought he heard shots at one o'clock, is taking us back to 1964 and wants to stay there."

 

Okay then.  Will you provide your "sourcing" for Ted Callaway saying that he thought he heard the shots at one o'clock?

 

"Around 1 pm or so" is not the same as "I heard the shots at one o'clock".

<Crickets>

[Bill Brown]

On 7/15/2022 at 5:15 AM, David Von Pein said:

You're dead wrong. Lee Oswald's Smith & Wesson .38 revolver (Serial No. V510210) has a perfectly fine chain of custody ---- from Bob Carroll to Gerald Hill and then straight to the Dallas Police Headquarters at City Hall. No problem with that at all. CTers, as usual, are creating problems with the chain of possession for a piece of evidence where no problems exist whatsoever.

Do you think Bob Carroll and Sergeant Gerald L. Hill are both lying through their individual and collective teeth in their Warren Commission testimony below?

Emphasis added by DVP:

------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. BELIN. I now want to hand you one of the exhibits which has been marked as Commission Exhibit 143 and ask you to state what that is?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir. It is a .38 caliber revolver with a blue steel 2" barrel with wooden handle.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen this before?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes; I have.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you first see it?
Mr. CARROLL. I first saw it in the Texas Theatre on November 22, 1963.
Mr. BELIN. Would you just tell us about this weapon, when you first saw it?
Mr. CARROLL. The first time I saw the weapon, it was pointed in my direction and I reached and grabbed it and stuck it into my belt.
Mr. BELIN. What did you happen to be doing at the time?
Mr. CARROLL. At the time I was assisting in the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know whose hand was on the gun when you saw it pointed in your direction?
Mr. CARROLL. No; I do not.
Mr. BELIN. You just jumped and grabbed it?
Mr. CARROLL. I jumped and grabbed the gun; yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do with it?
Mr. CARROLL. Stuck it in my belt.
Mr. BELIN. And then?
Mr. CARROLL. After leaving the theatre and getting into the car, I released the pistol to Sgt. Jerry Hill.
Mr. BELIN. Sgt. G. L. Hill?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Who drove the car down to the station?
Mr. CARROLL. I drove the car.
Mr. BELIN. Did you give it to him before you started up the car, or after you started up the car, if you remember?
Mr. CARROLL. After.
Mr. BELIN. How far had you driven when you gave it to him?
Mr. CARROLL. I don't recall exactly how far I had driven.
Mr. BELIN. Did you put any identification mark at all on this weapon?
Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; I did. The initials B. C., right above the screw on the inside of the butt of the pistol.

[...]

Mr. BELIN. What day did you put your initials on it?
Mr. CARROLL. November 22, 1963.

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/carroll.htm

------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. BELIN. Now I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit 143. Would you state if you know what this is?
Mr. HILL. This is a .38 caliber revolver, Smith & Wesson, with a 2" barrel that would contain six shells. It is an older gun that has been blue steeled, and has a worn wooden handle.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen this gun before?
Mr. HILL. I am trying to see my mark on it to make sure, sir. I don't recall specifically where I marked it, but I did mark it, if this is the one. I don't remember where I did mark it, now. Here it is, Hill right here, right in this crack.
Mr. BELIN. Officer, you have just pointed out a place which I will identify as a metal portion running along the butt of the gun. Can you describe it any more fully?
Mr. HILL. It would be to the inside of the pistol grip holding the gun in the air. It would begin under the trigger guard to where the last name H-i-l-l is scratched in the metal.
Mr. BELIN. Who put that name in there?
Mr. HILL. I did.
Mr. BELIN. When did you do that?
Mr. HILL. This was done at approximately 4 p.m., the afternoon of Friday, November 22, 1963, in the personnel office of the police department.
Mr. BELIN. Did you keep that gun in your possession until you scratched your name on it?

Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BELIN. Was this gun the gun that Officer Carroll handed to you?
Mr. HILL. And identified to me as the suspect's weapon.

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm

 

[Bill Brown]

On 7/15/2022 at 5:20 AM, Ian Lloyd said:

Makes sense to me that she left her home at "...around 1:00..." to catch the 1:12 bus - I can't imagine she would leave at 1:00 to catch a 1:22 bus when it was only a block or so i.e. a few minutes' walk for her. Also, I can't imagine that the bus would arrive at the stop at precisely 1:12 every time, if anything probably late rather than early (if early, it should wait until the alloted time to leave), so she thinks of it as a 1:15 bus...Even if she gets there a little later, it's only around 10 minutes extra wait for the 1:22, so she gives herself a safety net. Again, if so, this would convince me that she normally caught the 1:12 bus. It seems that she caught this bus regularly and has her timings quite precise in her WC testimony.

Ball asked her what time she "got her bus" (strange way to ask a question).  We cannot know how Markham interpreted it and therefore we can not really know what her answer really tells us.

 

It's just as possible that she is saying that she regularly got to her bus stop at 1:15 (which puts her there to regularly catch the 1:22 bus).

Edited July 16, 2022 by Bill Brown

[Bill Brown]

On 7/15/2022 at 5:22 AM, Ian Lloyd said:

Bowley's watch could have been off by 5 or 6 minutes, then again, it may not have been...He seemed quite relaint on it so I would expect him to ensure it was reading the correct time.

 

Trying to make things fit a narrative?

Since the police tapes tell us that Bowley reported the shooting at 1:17... and we know that Bowley got on the patrol car radio to report the shooting right away upon arriving... then it becomes obvious that Bowley arrived around 1:16.  So yes, this would make Bowley's watch 5 or 6 minutes slow.