Did the limo slow, or didn't it?

[Rich Taylor]

The general consensus is that the Limo stayed at the same speed through the gunfire until just after the headshot..even with eyewitnesses stating they saw it slow down or come to a complete stop.  Viewing both the Zapruder film and the nix film over the years gives two vantage points to observe it.  It would appear to me that that the limo slowed for a few moments right as JFK takes the fatal blow.  The queen mary comes into tyhe frame to within a few feet of the bumper quite quickly and the motorcycle riders on the left quickly pass the rear of the car when they were farther back before  and then greer hits the gas.  This can be noticed from both films. I have not seen this covered before and if it has been, I have not seen anyone discussing this point. 

[Rich Taylor]

Thanks!

 

[Gerry Down]

Nice little animation here which shows what the limo stop, really a rolling stop, would have looked like from the Willis family position. As you can see, if you are behind the limo, like the Willis family, a slowing limo will look as though it is stopped. This is due to the perspective from an angle looking at the limo from behind:

 

[Allen Lowe]

Well nobody seems to agree with me, but I’ve watched the film 30 times, and if you look at the grass to the left of the car, you can see the slow down to the near stop. It’s pretty obvious

[Henry Frost]

The limo did slow down, but didn't completely stop in the existing Zapruder and Nix films:

Urban legend has it that the driver, Greer, slowed to allow Clint Hill a chance to catch up to the presidential limo. Is there any truth in this?

[Allen Lowe]

I think the idiot Greer slowed down to see what was happening, assuming he wasn’t a conspirator, which is questionable. And it just doesn’t matter if the limousine didn’t come to a complete stop, as many witnesses have said it just slowed down, and honestly to people in the shock of the moment slowing down to a near  stop is going to feel like a stop.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Allen Lowe

[Henry Frost]

Yeah Greer should have sped up, taken evasive action, swerving the limo etc.  He did apologize to Jackie later though...

[Chris Bristow]

Measuring how far the limo advances per frame against the background shows it slowed from 12 to 9 mph then almost to 8 mph. The bikes surge up on the limo at 3mph at the same time it slowed by 3 mph.  It all matches very well, altered or not. The Nix film also matches it.
  I know people talk about how difficult it would be to match the two films but the position of the limo can be accurately measured frame by frame. A few inches of movement per frame(8.5 inches per frame at 9mph) is not easy to pin down from Nix's distance, but if you measure 5 or ten frame sections it is more accurate. You can also compare the limo movement in Nix frames to Z's pedestal which is very accurate for a few critical frames as the pedestal is only 18 or 24 inches wide(Can't remember). The hard part in altering the limo position in Nix would be witness Foster who blocks part of the limo. If alteration involved a cut and past the missing part of the limo behind Foster would complicate the cut and paste.
 I think the four bike cops right next to the limo are the best witnesses for a limo slowing/stopping. Their job was to constantly pace the limo through the entire motorcade and would be very aware of any changes of speed. That is why I think their non reaction to the limo slowing by 3mph is suspicious and may be an artifact of alteration.
Two of them said the limo fully stopped and two said it almost stopped. Many of the car stop witnesses were not sure if it stopped or almost stopped. I think that is an indication that it may have slowed so much people could not be sure if it fully stopped.

[Pamela Brown]

There is no question that the limo slowed. Greer is facing JFK for a number of Z frames prior to 312.  

Just how fast would you go while you were facing backward?

[Joe Bauer]

44 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

There is no question that the limo slowed. Greer is facing JFK for a number of Z frames prior to 312.  

Just how fast would you go while you were facing backward?

Pamela I agree 100%.

I've watched the Z film 500 times. Different speeds. You name it.

I have not been able to consider but one conclusion.

Greer turns his head 180 degrees backwards and looks right at JFK in Jackie's arms just as JFK is hit in the head. A split-split second later he turns back and floors the limo.

Pamela you are right. No car driver turns their upper body 180 degrees around, facing fully backwards and keeps their foot on the gas without letting it up.

When Greer turned to look at JFK he let up on the gas so much the limo almost stopped completely.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

Then there is the possibility the right-wing Irishman might have let off the gas, as instructed, at a pre-determined point to facilitate the elimination of a leftist Irish president some of his superiors deplored.

[Don Roberdeau]

13 hours ago, Rich Taylor said:

The general consensus is that the Limo stayed at the same speed through the gunfire until just after the headshot..even with eyewitnesses stating they saw it slow down or come to a complete stop.  Viewing both the Zapruder film and the nix film over the years gives two vantage points to observe it.  It would appear to me that that the limo slowed for a few moments right as JFK takes the fatal blow.  The queen mary comes into tyhe frame to within a few feet of the bumper quite quickly and the motorcycle riders on the left quickly pass the rear of the car when they were farther back before  and then greer hits the gas.  This can be noticed from both films. I have not seen this covered before and if it has been, I have not seen anyone discussing this point. 

    Good  Day  Rich....   The limousine definitely slowed-down after the turn onto Elm, when it had moved to within the  kill zone  during the attack shots.

By Z-320 the slowed-down speed (8.3 MPH) was,  at least,  32% slower  than its speed (12.2 MPH) had been 3.3 seconds earlier at Z-260.

Provided below within this response is a screen capture for my calculations table, for the limo speeds from Z-260 to 362, when it was already inside the  kill zone.

This same limo speeds table is a segment that is also included within my  Dealey Plaza Detailed Map,  available here. 

    Best  Regards  in  Research,

++   +Don
 

Donald Roberdeau

United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges clearly
 

For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepages Website:  "Men of Courage:  President Kennedy-elimination":  Evidence, Witnesses,

Photographers, Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, Suspects, + Important, Key Considerations, in

One Convenient Resource....

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html

the Dealey Plaza Detailed Map:  Documented 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations +

Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses + Photographers locations, Suspected Bullet Trajectories,

Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, + Important Information + Key Considerations, in One

Convenient Resource....

https://i.imgur.com/8vSS1dp.gif

( updated map, + new information )

Discovery:  Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS
Zapruder Film Documented  2nd  Head Snap: West, Ultrafast,  and  Directly

Towards  the  Grassy  Knoll ....

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html

Visual Report:  The  First  Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK

was  Still  Hidden  Under  the warrenatti-apologist "Magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"....

http://i.imgur.com/rfRH5jX.gif

Visual Report:  Reality  Versus C.A.D. : the  Real  World, versus, Garbage-in-garbage-out....

http://i.imgur.com/r8Ga26x.gif

T  ogether
E  veryone
A  chieves
M  ore

Current  Terrorism  Alerts  for  the  United  States:  
http://www.dhs.gov

Edited September 2, 2022 by Don Roberdeau

[Paul Cummings]

Greer slows down and for a second time looks back if memory serves me right.

[Henry Frost]

At Z272 Roy Kellerman looks back.

 

At Z280 both Kellerman and Greer are looking back.

 

At Z297 both are looking forward.

 

At Z306 Greer looks back again and keeps looking back until after Z313 (fatal head shot).

 

At Z316 Greer starts to turn facing forward again.

[Joe Bauer]

58 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Greer slows down and for a second time looks back if memory serves me right.

Greer's first head turn around is kind of a half or slightly more one. Glancing over his right shoulder at the back seat.

Greer's second head turn around however is a full 180 degree one. And he stays looking at JFK right as his head explodes. It was during this second turn around that he lets up on the accelerator which slows the limo to almost a stop.

Greer then jerks his head back frontward and hits the gas hard and ...vrooommm!

I'll have to go back to Greer's WC testimony but I believe he states a different story regards his doing a full 180 degree turn around just before the head shot and his actually seeing it happen.

Reading Greer's WC testimony I got the sense he was blatantly covering his a$$ by stating a version of his actions which would negate his negligently slowing the limo almost to a stop just before JFK was hit in the head.

Kellerman also looks straight back at JFK just before Greer.

I always felt sick at Kellerman's non-action during the shooting which he described as a "flurry" of shots raining in. He knew JFK had been hit. Shouldn't he have leaped over the bar behind him to use his body to shield JFK from any more carnage?

Life and limb risking on his part for sure.

Yet Clint Hill did something even more life and limb risky in his mad dash and leap onto the back of the limo while it was taking off at high speed.

Hill could have easily fallen and been run over by the 5 ton Queen Mary to a certain gruesome and crushing death.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Joe Bauer