PrayerPerson ???

[Chris Davidson]

5 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

It's sleep time.

James' post:

[Gerry Down]

Didn't Bart Kamp do an indepth study of all the female workers of the tsbd and accounted for them? Would this suggest prayer person is not a woman who worked at the tsbd, at least not the tsbd building on Elm street?

[Henry Frost]

[Andrej Stancak]

5 minutes ago, Henry Frost said:

The woman behind the glass door would fit the height if 5' 2 1/2' if she stood on the top landing, however, the shape of her hair and clothing does not fit Prayer Man, at least in my opinion. The problem is that no person 5' 2 1/2'' could fit Prayer Man because of the geometric issues pertaining to the location and appearance of that person on the top landing (explained in one of previous posts). A photograph of this woman with more details would be of great help.

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Didn't Bart Kamp do an indepth study of all the female workers of the tsbd and accounted for them? Would this suggest prayer person is not a woman who worked at the tsbd, at least not the tsbd building on Elm street?

No. I was involved in the original Prayer Man thread. At that time I raised the possibility it was Sarah Stanton, who Buell Frazier said was standing beside him at this time. This was rejected for silly reasons, as Stanton could not be identified in any other image. But the Stanton possibility--some would say probability--has never been refuted. 

[Andrej Stancak]

22 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

No. I was involved in the original Prayer Man thread. At that time I raised the possibility it was Sarah Stanton, who Buell Frazier said was standing beside him at this time. This was rejected for silly reasons, as Stanton could not be identified in any other image. But the Stanton possibility--some would say probability--has never been refuted. 

Pat:

Sarah Stanton can be identified in Darnell and partly in Altgens6 at a spot to the left of Frazier. But if you would like to make your case  regarding the possibility of Sarah Stanton being Prayer Man, please help yourself with her photograph. Sarah was 5' 6'', more than 300 pounds, a huge lady. But the detail that may be of interest to you when fitting her figure as Prayer Man is her thick, blonde hair. 

 

[Andrej Stancak]

The woman behind the glass door appears to have quite a rich hair shaped as a roof. In the picture below, the contour of her hair is plotted with yellow line, along with the contour of Prayer Man's hair. Prayer Man has a male hairline with receding hair around the temple. This is known as type II male baldness. The woman's hair may even continue further down to the neck, however, I was not sure. How similar are the two hair contours?

 

And here is the typology of male baldness according to Hamilton et al., 1951.  Lee Oswald's hairline would also be of type II.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Andrej Stancak

[Chris Davidson]

Long sleeves vs short sleeves.

The white object is a sun reflection off the glass door handle.

Added on edit. It appears to be the same object in both photos, yet the woman at left still appears to have her right arm in some type of object holding position. imo

Edited September 11, 2022 by Chris Davidson

[Sandy Larsen]

Andrej has my support. I agree with every word he said.

Like Pat, I was also involved in the long Prayer Man thread. But I was never convinced by any of the Prayer Woman arguments. This was when I was on the fence and before my research led me to believe that Oswald was out on the steps during the motorcade. (And that the second floor encounter was fabricated to discredit Oswald's alibi -- both his real one, being outside, and the WC's official one, being on the first floor.) It wasn't till after Andrej's model (showed with that PP could be Oswald standing one step down from the top landing), and Malcolm Blunt's discovery (of Hosty's note verifying that Oswald's alibi was indeed being on the TSBD steps during the P. Parade) that I finally got off the fence and decided Prayer Man probably was Oswald. Oh yeah, and also after Bart's research eliminated other contenders.

It amazes me that there are still so many people who think that PM is a woman. I wonder if some of these are simply married to the second-floor encounter story and want to discredit it's alternative.

 

[Denis Morissette]

This is the source.

https://www.prayer-man.com/june-2022-update/

[Pat Speer]

3 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Pat:

Sarah Stanton can be identified in Darnell and partly in Altgens6 at a spot to the left of Frazier. But if you would like to make your case  regarding the possibility of Sarah Stanton being Prayer Man, please help yourself with her photograph. Sarah was 5' 6'', more than 300 pounds, a huge lady. But the detail that may be of interest to you when fitting her figure as Prayer Man is her thick, blonde hair. 

 

I think I saw this on the JFK Assassination Forum some years ago. Wasn't this photo taken years later? 

[Henry Frost]

2 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

This is the source.

https://www.prayer-man.com/june-2022-update/

The image from the prayer-man site is heavily filtered, probably to bring out details.

Compare the pm site image (left) with a Darnell screen cap (right).                                                                                               
If you look at the columns on the right in both images, you can see grey squares and rectangles on the PM site filtered image. The filtering added noise. Also, the people look funny in the filtered image.

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Henry Frost
edited for clarity

[Pat Speer]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Andrej has my support. I agree with every word he said.

Like Pat, I was also involved in the long Prayer Man thread. But I was never convinced by any of the Prayer Woman arguments. This was when I was on the fence and before my research led me to believe that Oswald was out on the steps during the motorcade. (And that the second floor encounter was fabricated to discredit Oswald's alibi -- both his real one, being outside, and the WC's official one, being on the first floor.) It wasn't till after Andrej's model (showed with that PP could be Oswald standing one step down from the top landing), and Malcolm Blunt's discovery (of Hosty's note verifying that Oswald's alibi was indeed being on the TSBD steps during the P. Parade) that I finally got off the fence and decided Prayer Man probably was Oswald. Oh yeah, and also after Bart's research eliminated other contenders.

It amazes me that there are still so many people who think that PM is a woman. I wonder if some of these are simply married to the second-floor encounter story and want to discredit it's alternative.

 

I was talking about the original thread started by Sean Murphy, Sandy, in which the Prayer Man theory was first developed.  I supported it at first but when the other participants became more and more enthusiastic, it kind of a alarmed me. Here, they thought the key to the case revolved around a blurry image--which they desperately wanted to believe was Oswald. To me it never looked like Oswald--it could have been him--but it was far too blurry to say it looked like him. To me, moreover, it looked more like a woman. 

And from there things got even stranger. Within a few months, any part of the story that conflicted with PM's being Oswald had been questioned, and had been claimed to be a hoax. Unreliable snippets from newspaper accounts became the gospel truth. And suddenly, a new scenario had been presented as the truth...a scenario without any real support outside its proponents desperate desire for it to be true. Suddenly, Oswald was standing outside minding his own business when the shooting occurred. Suddenly, Buell Frazier and anyone claiming they saw Oswald inside the building after the shooting were part of the conspiracy--deliberate XXXXX--even though the bulk of their testimony suggested Oswald's innocence. 

It's just silly, IMO. I think you came here after it peaked, but there was a long stretch when this forum was dominated by the OIC--the Oswald Innocent Campaign. The members of this campaign, chiefly Ciinque and Fetzer, thought it was Oswald in the Altgens photo, and that Oswald was on the steps. They then built from this that the CIA had doctored the Altgens photo to make Oswald look more like Lovelady, and that all the witnesses (apparently including Oswald?) who'd failed to say he was outside at the time of the shooting were part of the plot. and that, furthermore, all the films and photos showing Lovelady wearing the shirt he wore in Altgens had been doctored, as he'd really been wearing a different shirt entirely. 

I think we can all agree that the Oswald is in Altgens theory was nonsense. And yet, to me, the Oswald is in Darnell theory is a nearly identical twin. People look at a blurry image. They see what they want to see. They then question everything that suggests they could be wrong, and assume it must be wrong, and part of the plot. They then find snippets of evidence (a photo of Lovelady wearing a different shirt than he wore on 11-22...or a vague handwritten draft of an FBI report...) that "confirms" their theory. They then attack anyone and everyone who fails to subscribe to their theory. 

I've seen it before. And I'll probably see it again. 

In fact, I can pretty much guarantee that most "Prayer Man" believers will move on to something else in the near future, as its momentum seems to have stalled. As stated previously, a number of the richest and most media-friendly CTs viewed a much cleaner version of Darnell than is available online, and failed to buy it or pursue another version of the film. Well, this suggests to me that they knew, deep inside, it was a dead-end street. 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Pat Speer

[Chris Davidson]

8 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

James' post:

James H. used VLC (movie player) to view the Darnell film at the 6FM. I am making the assumption that it was actually a film (not photos) that he studied.

The neckline description is very puzzling because it agrees with the filter enhanced Alan F. provided/ROKC website (thanks for locating that Denis M)version.

I'll ask James if the filter enhanced version is more indicative of what he remembers seeing a few years back.

I'm wondering if James is the only researcher who has viewed the Darnell film located at the 6FM???

 

 

 

 

 

[Denis Morissette]

10 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

I'll ask James if the filter enhanced version is more indicative of what he remembers seeing a few years back.

I'm wondering if James is the only researcher who has viewed the Darnell film located at the 6FM???

He's the only that I know of. I hope I'll be able to visit Dallas next year. You can bet I'll be viewing it. I hope to be there for 2 week to give me the opportunity to visit several Universities in Texas. I'll be on the hunt of never-before-published photos and material. I think it would be possible to ask the 6FM archivist to obtain a few screenshots so the researcher can look at it on the screen. I think they should get them ready so researchers can view them right away.