A Response To DiEugenio's "Dale Myers and his World of Illusion"

[Bill Brown]

30 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

Such a tiresome, specious lot of schoolyard-level attacks.

 

Agreed.  And have you noticed who started it?

 

Just scroll back until you see the "Moby Dick" comments by two ill-advised conspiracy advocates.  That's where it began.

 

Now, I'm a big boy.  I can take it and I'm not complaining.  But, I didn't start it.

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Bill Brown

[Bob Ness]

Ok then... But you posted that right? Ridiculous. Why wouldn't Dale? Because you're posting for him or what?

This one is really good! Missed it before! Stellar!

Quote

Anyway, back to the thread at hand... why hasn't DiEugenio responded to the points raised by Myers in the blog post?

On 11/28/2022 at 1:41 PM, Bill Brown said:

It should be noted that twelve days have passed and Mr. DiEugenio has not responded to even one point raised by Myers in the blog post.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Bob Ness

[James DiEugenio]

Maybe because:

1. His reply was so juvenile I did not see anything worthy to reply to?

2. Everyone else has done a fine job in doing so why should I pile on a guy being buried in a scrum?

 

BTW, I did reply to that whole long report Dale wrote on acoustics, but I posted Don Thomas' reply on a different thread.

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Bob Ness]

14 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Maybe because:

1. His reply was so juvenile I did not see anything worthy to reply to?

2. Everyone else has done a fine job in doing so l why should I pile on a guy being buried in a scrum?

 

BTW, I did reply to that whole long report Dale wrote, but I posted Don Thomas' reply on a different thread.

 

My reference wasn't aimed at you. I thought I was pretty polite. The Moby Dick thing was an illustration. What's hysterical is he can't bring himself to say, "I don't know you may be able to find it at etc..." or just say what the references are if he does. Just can't do it. Comical. Either way it's presented as an article of faith in Dale's animation. I don't know anything about forensic pathology either but I'm not posting rebuttals by proxy assertions and saying "go look it up" when challenged. Seems to be the case here.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Bob Ness

[James DiEugenio]

yeah, Bob, I saw that also.

Its pretty funny to see Bill Brown bumble over this.

[Gene Kelly]

On 11/16/2022 at 5:50 PM, Bill Brown said:

A common sense, fact-filled response to DiEugenio's nonsense:

 

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2022/11/the-single-bullet-fact.html

Bill

It seems the Dale Meyers response is denigrating the work of several authors who are quite well respected and have done very good work in exploring the mysterious details of the JFK assassination (beyond just the Tippit murder). Meyer's response has an unprofessional tone and contains needless vitriol. This paragraph in particular didn't do much for me:

His own 2018 article, “The Tippit Case in the New Millennium,” which in fact borrows heavily from the embarrassing writings and musings of John Armstrong, Bill Simpich, Joseph McBride and Farris Rookstool. I say embarrassing because you couldn't find four of the worst sources for truth and fact in the Tippit case anywhere on the planet. I know. I’ve written about what they’ve done with the case on this very blog and in my 1998 book With Malice – ad nauseum. Pick any aspect of the case – I dare you – and I’ll show you how they’ve avoided the truth and injected their own brand of crazy.

Specifically, given the manner in which he 'criticizes' (which is a nice way to describe his tone and characterization) Joseph Mcbride's excellent book, it's difficult to put any stock in what Meyers writes.  I'm OK if someone simply disagrees, but when they resort to ad hominem attacks and pile on adjectives in this manner, it convinces me that they're not credible:  

And if DiEugenio’s own article isn’t enough to convince you that Oswald is innocent of the Tippit murder, he suggests you read “a much longer treatment” by Joseph McBride. I can only presume that he refers to McBride’s book Into the Nightmare – a dizzying collection of irrational and illogical thought that defies description. I pointed out just a small fraction of McBride’s idiocy on this subject in a blog review you’ll find ...

To submit that "JFK Revisited" is somehow flawed because it didn't address the Tippit story is disingenuous.  Frankly, had Stone and DiEugenio included the Tippit aspect, I'm certain they would've exposed all the fallacies and inconsistences, and gotten much closer to the elusive "truth" than Dale Meyers has. 

Oliver Stone and James DiEugenio won’t deal with the Tippit murder because it is the snare that entrapped Lee Harvey Oswald. It was Tippit’s murder that made Oswald a prime suspect in the JFK assassination. How can anyone taking a serious ten-hour look at JFK’s murder ignore it?

It's absurd that, in today's day and age, anyone can still defend the single bullet theory. But Dale Meyers seems to still cling to it as "fact" ... a position that itself, is difficult to respect:

"As far as I’m concerned, my own work convinced me of the validity of that single shot. In fact, in my opinion, it’s the only viable solution given everything I know about the wounds, the trajectories and the physical evidence"

I've spent a lot more than ten hours digging into all of the facts, disinformation, curious detail and back-stories of JFK's death, especially Tippit's murder ... there are far too many inconsistencies associated with Tippit's behavior and his controversial death, to accept that Oswald killed him. I would certainly agree that it was intended to 'entrap' Oswald and make him a suspect ... but there's far more to the story than Dale Meyers would have us believe. 

Nice try, but I don't buy it.

Gene

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks Gene.

I thought that McBride's book was so much better than the one by Meyers. For the simple reason that Joe did not fear to go beyond certain parameters necessitated by the official story.

Therefore, his work on people like Mentzel, and Nelson was to me quite interesting.  They created paradoxes that were never explained by the WC.  Or even the HSCA.  In my view, the HSCA kind of blew off the Tippit murder.  

And I explain in my broadside  against Meyers how wrong he is on the sources for my essay.  The overwhelming  majority of notes were to the WC or McBride.  I think that is quite natural. What Joe does with those mysterious orders like the one to Tippit and Nelson to move into Central Oak Cliff area--which it does not seem Nelson did--and "You will be at large for any Emergency that comes in" I believe is quite interesting and important. And as Joe notes, the dispatcher, Murray Jackson seems to have altered  his story from when he was interviewed by CBS to when he talked to the HSCA. (McBride, pp. 423-24). And he also notes that the first order was not on the transcript  initially given to the WC. (ibid, p. 424)

But look at the set up for the second order:

Jackson: 78

TIppit: 78

Jackson: You are in the Oak Cliff area, are you not?

Tippit: Lancaster and 8th.

Jackson: You will be at large for any Emergency that comes in.

Tippit: 10-4 (ibid, p. 425)

So the dispatcher directs him to a foreign area, and then tells him to stay there for any Emergency that arises.  This is while the biggest shooting case in the history of Dallas has just taken place in Dealey Plaza. Where Nelson ended up!  According to Edgar Tippit, the father of the slain policeman, JD's widow, Marie, told him that  JD and another officer had. been directed to that spot in order to hunt down Oswald.: "They called JD and another policeman and said he [Oswald] was headed in that direction.  The other policeman told Marie." (ibid, p. 426)

Joe figures it out, after narrowing it down to Nelson and Mentzel, that it was Mentzel who was the other cop who was supposed to corner Oswald. One way he does this is by another thing Marie told Edgar: "The other boy stopped--he would have gotten there but he had a little accident, a wreck.  They both started, but JD made it. He'd been expecting something. The police notified them Oswald was headed that way." (ibid, p. 427)

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Now, as Joe next describes, the record bears out Edgar.

In a 1977 HSCA interview, Mentzel said he did respond to an accident.  And the police radio transcript does include an accident report in Oak Cliff on West Davis Street.  Mentzel responds to this alert on the radio.(McBride, p. 427)

As for the allegations by Edgar of a hunt for Oswald and TIppit expecting something, does not the evidence indicate that this has some grounding in the adduced record that was absent from the WC?  Tippit at the GLOCO station, running down the driver and looking in the back of his car, and going to the record shop to make a call.

As McBride sums this up: "The Top Ten Records story suggests Tippit was desperately seeking further direction while trying to report his frustration with not being able to locate Oswald." (McBride, p. 455)

Joe's book is not afraid to go there. But he also does not rely on the MSM for any notoriety either

 

[Gene Kelly]

Joe McBride is obviously credible ... these other guys are playing games 

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

Joe McBride is obviously credible ... these other guys are playing games 

Bam!  Outta the park.  Maybe he will forgive me for the purposeful misspelling.

 

[Gene Kelly]

Jim

As I've read more about Garrison's investigation, based on Destiny Betrayed and the later files released, I've come to respect his findings and intuition more than ever. Not only his perseverance and courage, but investigative skills and instincts.  Garrison describes all of the people surrounding Oswald as he ostensibly escapes as a "caravan" escorting him to the Texas Theater.  I first began to have interest in the Tippit murder, when I read about Garrison's comment along the lines that the shooting of a police officer becomes a major event for law enforcement.  I think Garrison characterized it as a "Code Blue" and he suggested that it was the perfect diversion (in the immediate aftermath of the assassination) for the actual assassins to get away from the Plaza ... and for blame to be focused on a cop-killer trying to escape (almost too pat to be true).  This resonated with me and convinced me that there was more to the Tippit murder than met the eye. 

Fast forward to the recent EF thread about the 6th floor and Oswald's lunchroom encounter, it seems plausible that Bill Shelley's behavior in the TSBD that afternoon could be connected with Tippit's strange actions.  Considering that Shelley was Oswald's supervisor and had been captured in a picture with him in New Orleans that summer, perhaps he was on the phone with Tippit (i.e., the Top ten call), directing him how/where to hunt Oswald.  Shelley was apparently seen by newsman Frank McGee on a phone in the back lobby, and later stated he had called his wife right after the President was shot. In other words, Shelley releases Oswald and sends him off to the Texas Theater, tells Truly and DPD he is missing, and then sends Tippit off on a wild goose chase (and to his own death).  

Its admittedly speculative, but ...

Gene

[James DiEugenio]

First, yes Garrison did say that about the Tippit murder.  And I have come to agree with him on that judgment.

About Shelly, because of the work by William Weston, yes I have become more open to the idea that something could have been going on in the TSBD on the order of what are saying.  As you say, its speculative, but sometimes such speculation is warranted.

Thanks so much Ron.