David Lifton's latter-day claims

[Matthew Koch]

I used to think this was pretty far out but we've basically have confirmation about Hawkeye Works. 

No one is right about everything, David believed that the films were altered and that the witnesses were describing events that are not on the film and photo record. So people citing the film and photo record maybe should re watch this video and be less critical until the citation comes out. 

 

[Steven Kossor]

Someone tampered with the Wikipedia entry about David that I edited with the consent of his next-of-kin a few days after his death, so I restored the edited content just now.  David and I conferred very often, nightly for many years, between 2012 and 2022 about his research, evolving perceptions and analyses of data that newly came to his attention, and he modified several of the statements made in the 2013 interview that was published here recently.  David agreed when I suggested that he was functioning "like a colloquium of one" throughout much of his research career.  As many others have documented, he was quite reluctant to share the full details about his ideas with others, released dribs and drabs of his observations and insights at irregular intervals, and didn't share "everything with everybody," but this is not unusual in the life of a writer and researcher, especially one with the depth and breadth of experience that David Lifton had.  I will assist his estate to the extent I can to collect David's thoughts and writings that reflect the state of his understanding of the JFKA as of November of 2022 but I can't offer any more than that.  I will not release dribs and drabs of his material and invite scavenging, and hope that the Education Forum takes a breath and waits for his estate to release a definitive collection of his work.  Although there is some historical value in documenting the evolution of David's thinking over time, it's not worthwhile to critique stale pieces of analysis that he left scattered about in the time after Best Evidence was published more than forty years ago.  David deserves to be credited for all of the facts he documented so scrupulously in Best Evidence; as many reviewers have said, he unequivocally documented the facts about "what happened."  He admittedly made some mis-steps over the years in his analysis of those facts because so many pieces were concealed.  To his credit, he continued to the end of his life to seek after missing pieces, conscientiously avoiding the "confirmation bias" that has stymied so many researchers.  David tried to the best of his ability to integrate new pieces of information into a coherent account of "what was supposed to have happened" and I believe that history will conclude that he helped significantly to create a sensible explanation for the diabolical mechanics of the JFKA.  I won't edit David's Wikipedia entry again unless his estate asks me to do so.  I will remember David fondly and wish Happy Holidays and a healthy, safe New Year and beyond to everyone who encountered him or his ideas over the years.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Steven Kossor
spelling corrections

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Steven Kossor said:

Someone tampered with the Wikipedia entry about David that I edited with the consent of his next-of-kin a few days after his death, so I restored the edited content just now.  David and I conferred very often, nightly for many years, between 2012 and 2022 about his research, evolving perceptions and analyses of data that newly came to his attention, and he modified several of the statements made in the 2013 interview that was published here recently.  David agreed when I suggested that he was functioning "like a colloquium of one" throughout much of his research career.  As many others have documented, he was quite reluctant to share the full details about his ideas with others, released dribs and drabs of his observations and insights at irregular intervals, and didn't share "everything with everybody," but this is not unusual in the life of a writer and researcher, especially one with the depth and breadth of experience that David Lifton had.  I will assist his estate to the extent I can to collect David's thoughts and writings that reflect the state of his understanding of the JFKA as of November of 2022 but I can't offer any more than that.  I will not release dribs and drabs of his material and invite scavenging, and hope that the Education Forum takes a breath and waits for his estate to release a definitive collection of his work.  Although there is some historical value in documenting the evolution of David's thinking over time, it's not worthwhile to critique stale pieces of analysis that he left scattered about in the time after Best Evidence was published more than forty years ago.  David deserves to be credited for all of the facts he documented so scrupulously in Best Evidence; as many reviewers have said, he unequivocally documented the facts about "what happened."  He admittedly made some mis-steps over the years in his analysis of those facts because so many pieces were concealed.  To his credit, he continued to the end of his life to seek after missing pieces, conscientiously avoiding the "confirmation bias" that has stymied so many researchers.  David tried to the best of his ability to integrate new pieces of information into a coherent account of "what was supposed to have happened" and I believe that history will conclude that he helped significantly to create a sensible explanation for the diabolical mechanics of the JFKA.  I won't edit David's Wikipedia entry again unless his estate asks me to do so.  I will remember David fondly and wish Happy Holidays and a healthy, safe New Year and beyond to everyone who encountered him or his ideas over the years.

Thank you for all you have done !

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Steven Kossor said:

Someone tampered with the Wikipedia entry about David that I edited with the consent of his next-of-kin a few days after his death, so I restored the edited content just now.  David and I conferred very often, nightly for many years, between 2012 and 2022 about his research, evolving perceptions and analyses of data that newly came to his attention, and he modified several of the statements made in the 2013 interview that was published here recently.  David agreed when I suggested that he was functioning "like a colloquium of one" throughout much of his research career.  As many others have documented, he was quite reluctant to share the full details about his ideas with others, released dribs and drabs of his observations and insights at irregular intervals, and didn't share "everything with everybody," but this is not unusual in the life of a writer and researcher, especially one with the depth and breadth of experience that David Lifton had.  I will assist his estate to the extent I can to collect David's thoughts and writings that reflect the state of his understanding of the JFKA as of November of 2022 but I can't offer any more than that.  I will not release dribs and drabs of his material and invite scavenging, and hope that the Education Forum takes a breath and waits for his estate to release a definitive collection of his work.  Although there is some historical value in documenting the evolution of David's thinking over time, it's not worthwhile to critique stale pieces of analysis that he left scattered about in the time after Best Evidence was published more than forty years ago.  David deserves to be credited for all of the facts he documented so scrupulously in Best Evidence; as many reviewers have said, he unequivocally documented the facts about "what happened."  He admittedly made some mis-steps over the years in his analysis of those facts because so many pieces were concealed.  To his credit, he continued to the end of his life to seek after missing pieces, conscientiously avoiding the "confirmation bias" that has stymied so many researchers.  David tried to the best of his ability to integrate new pieces of information into a coherent account of "what was supposed to have happened" and I believe that history will conclude that he helped significantly to create a sensible explanation for the diabolical mechanics of the JFKA.  I won't edit David's Wikipedia entry again unless his estate asks me to do so.  I will remember David fondly and wish Happy Holidays and a healthy, safe New Year and beyond to everyone who encountered him or his ideas over the years.

Thanks, Steven. 

[David Von Pein]

6 hours ago, Adam Johnson said:

Did I say earlier that DVP your [sic] a terrible human being in my opinion.

What have I said in this thread that makes me a "terrible human being", Adam?

I'm allowed to have an opinion about the JFK case (and Mr. Lifton's theories) too, you know.

And, like Pat Speer, I have intentionally avoided saying anything of a derogatory nature about Mr. Lifton in the "David Lifton Has Died" thread. I feel that that thread should not be used to bash David in any way. In fact, I said some nice things about DSL in that thread, HERE.

[David Von Pein]

3 hours ago, Steven Kossor said:

Someone tampered with the Wikipedia entry about David that I edited with the consent of his next-of-kin a few days after his death, so I restored the edited content just now.

But apparently your edits, Steven, were removed a second time today (Dec. 11 @ 16:41 UTC), because the Wiki page is still showing David L. to be alive as of this post at 3:20 PM EST on Dec. 11.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lifton

So it would seem, Steven, as if your edits aren't going to stay on DSL's page until Wikipedia can confirm (in their minds) David's death via some type of "official" source. Or maybe they even require two or three "official" sources. I have no idea.

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Jamey Flanagan]

Yeah, I have to take up for @David Von Pein in that I haven't seen anything myself that has been disrespectful to the late Mr. Lifton. Disagreeing with someone isn't necessarily disrespectful, even if they have recently passed. Just like Mr. Lifton has done his research, as much as I might not agree with the interpretation, DVP has done valuable research as well! I might not always agree with his interpretation either but I do respect his work just as I respect the work DSL has done!

[David Von Pein]

Thank you, Jamey.

[Pat Speer]

2 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

But apparently your edits, Steven, were removed a second time today (Dec. 11 @ 16:41 UTC), because the Wiki page is still showing David L. to be alive as of this post at 3:20 PM EST on Dec. 11. ~shrug~

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lifton

 

Ironically, considering it's a webpage which has helped accelerate the death of the printed page, Wiki doesn't recognize edits without links to printed material, or the websites of prominent news organizations. 

I don't remember who, but at one point someone went through and added some links to my website in the articles on the single-bullet theory. They were all removed, while at the same time links to Bugliosi's book, which said things that were provably untrue, remained. 

[David Von Pein]

12 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Ironically, considering it's a webpage which has helped accelerate the death of the printed page, Wiki doesn't recognize edits without links to printed material, or the websites of prominent news organizations. 

I don't remember who, but at one point someone went through and added some links to my website in the articles on the single-bullet theory. They were all removed, while at the same time links to Bugliosi's book, which said things that were provably untrue, remained. 

Several years ago, I added some links to my blogs to some of the JFK-related Wikipedia pages, but after a day or two Wiki removed every one of them. I was told by somebody there at Wiki that they don't accept any links from anyone's "blogs". You can link to a non-blog website, but a "blog" cannot be linked to at Wiki (at least as of circa 2010). Which, IMO, is a bit unfair and shortsighted on Wikipedia's behalf.

Edited December 11, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Steven Kossor]

I just learned that, as David von Pein said, until a reference to a formal authority (police record, formal death notice, etc) can be attached to anything regarding a person's death, the authorities at Wikipedia will remove any posting referring to the person's death.  So there you have it, nothing nefarious going on.  I'll wait till that announcement is available and then update the Wikipedia page.  You live long enough, you learn everything, right?

[David Von Pein]

Thanks for the update, Steven. And also: thanks for providing us with the information about the passing of Mr. Lifton. If it weren't for your post on December 6th at 9:22 PM EST, evidently nobody on Earth (other than David's immediate family members) would have any idea that David had passed away. Because there apparently hasn't been any news about it on any wire or major news network at all---even after six days. That seems very strange to me.

I remember when my favorite attorney (and JFK "expert"), Vincent Bugliosi, died in June of 2015, I was quite surprised when news of his passing didn't come through for about two full days. I thought that was a lengthy delay at that time. But now we've got an "official news" delay that's three times that long. Quite odd.

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Vince Palamara]

4 hours ago, Steven Kossor said:

Someone tampered with the Wikipedia entry about David that I edited with the consent of his next-of-kin a few days after his death, so I restored the edited content just now.  David and I conferred very often, nightly for many years, between 2012 and 2022 about his research, evolving perceptions and analyses of data that newly came to his attention, and he modified several of the statements made in the 2013 interview that was published here recently.  David agreed when I suggested that he was functioning "like a colloquium of one" throughout much of his research career.  As many others have documented, he was quite reluctant to share the full details about his ideas with others, released dribs and drabs of his observations and insights at irregular intervals, and didn't share "everything with everybody," but this is not unusual in the life of a writer and researcher, especially one with the depth and breadth of experience that David Lifton had.  I will assist his estate to the extent I can to collect David's thoughts and writings that reflect the state of his understanding of the JFKA as of November of 2022 but I can't offer any more than that.  I will not release dribs and drabs of his material and invite scavenging, and hope that the Education Forum takes a breath and waits for his estate to release a definitive collection of his work.  Although there is some historical value in documenting the evolution of David's thinking over time, it's not worthwhile to critique stale pieces of analysis that he left scattered about in the time after Best Evidence was published more than forty years ago.  David deserves to be credited for all of the facts he documented so scrupulously in Best Evidence; as many reviewers have said, he unequivocally documented the facts about "what happened."  He admittedly made some mis-steps over the years in his analysis of those facts because so many pieces were concealed.  To his credit, he continued to the end of his life to seek after missing pieces, conscientiously avoiding the "confirmation bias" that has stymied so many researchers.  David tried to the best of his ability to integrate new pieces of information into a coherent account of "what was supposed to have happened" and I believe that history will conclude that he helped significantly to create a sensible explanation for the diabolical mechanics of the JFKA.  I won't edit David's Wikipedia entry again unless his estate asks me to do so.  I will remember David fondly and wish Happy Holidays and a healthy, safe New Year and beyond to everyone who encountered him or his ideas over the years.

Thank you!

[David Von Pein]

8 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Ah, no.  The remarks seem to take place in the context of dismissing the Greer-shot-JFK trope. 

You're wrong. The remarks mean exactly the opposite---i.e., Lifton (at least as of 2013) thought the driver shot Kennedy. Just read Pat Speer's post from early this morning---here.

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Vince Palamara]

26 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

You're wrong. The remarks mean exactly the opposite---i.e., Lifton (at least as of 2013) thought the driver shot Kennedy. Just read Pat Speer's post from 2:00 this morning---here.

 

I am shocked that Lifton believed some of this crap- Ready (first arrow) was back on the follow-up car after only taking a few forward steps on Elm Street (Landis: arrow behind him):