Bang......Bang, Bang.

[Gerry Down]

I'm currently doing a study on the spacing of the shots as heard by the eyewitness. I want to plot a chart of witnesses who said the shots were evenly spaced versus those you said there was a longer pause between shots one and two than between shots two and three which were described as being right on top of each other, so fast it would have been impossible to operate a bolt action to fire shots two and three so close together. 

Does anyone know where such a study has already been done so I can examine their data rather than doing it all from scratch myself?

[Guest]

There a good number of those witnesses in Pat's chapter 9 :

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter9piecingittogether

Edited December 11, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Matthew Koch]

10 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

I'm currently doing a study on the spacing of the shots as heard by the eyewitness. I want to plot a chart of witnesses who said the shots were evenly spaced versus those you said there was a longer pause between shots one and two than between shots two and three which were described as being right on top of each other, so fast it would have been impossible to operate a bolt action to fire shots two and three so close together. 

Does anyone know where such a study has already been done so I can examine their data rather than doing it all from scratch myself?

In the back of 'Six Seconds' in Dallas Joseiah Thompson has a chart where witnesses were in Dealey and what they heard. 

Here is some Bang, Bang Bang citation I have saved: 

 

 

 

Bowers' evident reluctance to "be difficult in any manner"—which apparently included volunteering previously undisclosed information when the interrogator tacitly hinted that he "seemed to be satisfied with the answer" and "did not care for me to elaborate" —is understandable in view of his previous experiences with investigators of the assassination.'" On the afternoon of November 22, Bowers was "taken in a squad car to police headquarters," where he was placed alone in a small interrogation room."° "Someone must have gotten slightly excited over it [his account]," Bowers told me in a filmed and tape-recorded interview in 1966, "at least for a moment, because, after talking to others, I find that I was the only one accorded this treatment. Why at that time they thought it was important and decided later it wasn't ... [or] decided it was better,:

not to talk about it, I just really wouldn't know."' Bowers told questioners that the second and third shots he had heard when the assassination occurred were "almost on top of each other."'  -P.203 (Mark Lane a Citizen’s Decent) Bowers recollection

 

Phil and Marilyn Willis had two daughters. Both were at the scene of the crime with both parents, and both saw the impact of bullets, as did their mother. As Phil, with whom I had a friendly relationship and exchanged phone calls and letters told me, Wesley Liebeler, the Commission's counsel who deposed Linda Kay Willis, "called the wrong one."

It simply is not possible that this man who says he read and indexed those volumes did not know of Linda Kay's sworn testimony. His suppression of it—of its existence—magnifies his other dishonesties and underscores his intent to be corrupt and try to corrupt our officially corrupted history even more.

In response to Liebeler's asking Linda Kay Willis if she heard what she took to be shots, she testified, under oath: "Yes. I heard one. Then there was a little bit of time, and then there were two real fast bullets together. When the first one hit, well, the President turned from waving to the people, and he grabbed his throat, and he kind of slumped forward, and then ..." —and this requires close attention—"... I couldn't tell where the second shot went."

She said it was the second shot that missed, and she was looking and listening!

If Posner had not suppressed this he would have had no book at all! Where was she, Linda Kay, when she saw the impact on the President? "I was right in line with the sign (Stemmons Freeway) and the car and I wasn't very far away, but I couldn't tell where the shot came from." –P.35 Case Open. Weisberg points out Posner Willis sister problem. Linda Kay Willis (Bang, Bangbang)

 

 

Williams told the Warren Commission:

After the President's car had passed my window. . . [there) was a loud 
shot—first I thought they were saluting the President, somebody—even 
maybe a motorcycle backfire. The first shot—[then] there was two shots

rather close together. The second and the third shot was closer together then the first shot . . . well, the first shot—I really did not pay _anyattention to it, because I did not know what was happening. The second shot, it sounded like it was right in the building ... it even shook the building, the side we were on. Cement fell on my head. . . . Harold was sitting next to me and he said it came from right over our head. . . My exact words were, "No bullshit?" And we jumped up. . . . I think Jarman, he—I think he moved before any of us. He moved towards us, and he said, "Man, someone is shooting at the President." And I think I said again, "No bullshit?" . . . Then we all kind of got excited... , But, we all decided we would run down to the west side of the

. We saw policemen and people running, scared, running—there are some tracks on the west side of the building, railroad tracks. They were running towards that way. And we thought . . . we know the shots came from practically over our head. But . . . we assumed maybe somebody was down there.

Norman said he and Jarman had eaten lunch in the domino room on the first floor, then walked out the front door where they saw other Depository employees, including Lovelady, sitting on the steps.

As the motorcade approached, they took an elevator to the fifth floor and got seated in a southeast corner window, where they were joined by Williams moments later. Norman said he heard three loud shots and "1 could also hear something sounded like shell hulls hitting the floor . . ." Later, he said he also had heard the sound of the bolt working on a rifle above them. –P.47-48 Crossfire. Bonnie Ray Williams Lunch on 5^th floor details. And Testimony before Warren Commission. Bang, Bangbang

 

 

This Coke issue is a small one, but one that is indicative of the loopholes riddling the official story of the assassination.

The issue of Oswald's documented presence in the Depository's lunch­room, with or without Coke, is further complicated by the statements of a Dallas deputy district court clerk. Lillian Mooneyham, clerk of the 95th District Court, told the FBI that she watched the motorcade move west on Main from windows in the Dallas Criminal Courts Building, then ran with two others to the west side of the building. She heard an initial shot, which she took to be a firecracker, followed by a "slight pause and then two more shots were discharged, the second and third shots sounding closer together.” –P.52 Crossfire. Lillian Mooney clerk of district court.

 

The two outriders to the President's left rear were shocked by being spattered with the President's blood and brain matter. The two Secret Servicemen in the car, one of them the driver, had to make vital decisions. Both, however, did have interesting comments on the shots. Agent Kellerman said later that the last sound he recalled was "like a double bang — bang! bang! ... like a plane going through the sound barrier." Agent Greer, the driver, also said the last shot cracked out "just right behind" its predecessor. This could conceivably mean the two agents heard a single bullet breaking the sound barrier, but It also suggests they heard two shots very close together indeed — far closer together than one man could achieve with a bolt-operated rifle. Agent Kellerman later expressed the opinion, based on what he heard and the wounds he saw later at the autopsy, that "there have got to be more than three shots."

In spite of being himself shot in the hail of gunfire, Governor Connally — himself an experienced hunter — remembered that because of the "rapidity" of the shots, "the thought immediate!) passed through my mind that there were two or three people involved, or more, in this; or that someone was shooting with an automatic rifle."

As for the bystanders nearest to the offside of the President'. car, one, Mary Moorman, made estimates ranging from two to four shots. Like those in the car, she was first preoccupied and then so panicky that she was distracted. (She was taking a photo. graph as the limousine approached and then threw herself to the ground, shrieking, "Get down! shooting!") –P.52 Conspiracy. Kellarman Bangbang. William Greer “Just right beind”

 

Let us presently read G.A. Bennett's testimony with reference to the number of shots fired. "Secret Service Agent Glen A. Bennett, sta­tioned in the right rear seat of the President's followup car, who heard a sound like a firecracker as the motorcade proceeded down Elm Street. At that moment, Agent Bennett stated: "I looked at the back of the Pres­ident. I heard another firecracker noise and saw that shot hit the Presi­dent about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear of the President's head" (W-111). –P.4 False Mystery. Bang, Bang Bang. Secret Service agents describes seeing President shot in the back just before shot to the head.

 

If Governor Connally was not hit by the same first bullet to hit the President, then the Government's case is destroyed. The Government admits one shot missed (W-111). A separate shot removed the back of the President's head (W-199). This would constitute a minimum of four shots and would put the Government's theory that only three bullets were fired out of business. The explanation that the President and the Governor were fast hit by different shots conforms to the "substantial majority of the witnesses who stated that the shots were not evenly spaced. Most witnesses recalled that the second and third shots were bunched together..." (W-115). Governor Connally said he was hit at a point corresponding to frames 231 to 234 of the Abraham Zapruder films (W-105). If, as the Commission states, the President was hit no later than at frame 225, then this would indicate two separate shots hitting close upon one another. Since they were fired within 6 to 9 frames of one another, or according to photographer Willis 21 to 24 frames of one another, this represents a time interval of from 0.34 to 1.31 seconds. This time gap is insufficient to allow firing from the same bolt-action rifle and therefore points to the existence of another marksman. Need­less to say, the majority view of the spectators that the last two shots were bunched, militates against a single carbine, bolt-action weapon doing all the firing. The time period between the first hit on the Presi­dent and the final hit on him is not greater than 5.6 seconds according to the Commission's own findings. "As previously indicated, the time span between the shot entering the back of the President's neck and the bullet which shattered his skull was 4.8 to 5.6 seconds" (W-I17). Therefore, 5.6 seconds being the longest time span, if there were two hits on the President and one separate hit on Connally, there could not have been any bunching of two shots since the once^-accomplished 2.3 seconds minimum firing time could not permit bunching. –P.6 False Witness. Salandria on the problems with the shooting sequence with regard to the Single Bullet Theory. And Bunching of shots.  

Hickey looked toward the president's car and saw that Kennedy was slumped

forward and to his left but trying to straighten himself up. Then, the agent wrote,

I heard two reports which I thought were shots and that appeared to

me completely different in sound than the first report and were in such

rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element

between them. It looked to me as if the President was struck in the right

upper rear of his head. The first shot of the second two seemed as if it

missed because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and

there didn't seem to be any impact against his head. The last shot seemed

to hit his head and cause a noise at the point of impact which made him

fall forward and to his left again. Possibly four or five seconds elapsed

from the time of the first report and the last.

At the end of the last report I reached to the bottom of the car and

picked up the AR 15 rifle, cocked and loaded it, and turned to the rear.

At this point the cars were passing under the over-pass and as a result

we had left the scene of the shooting. I kept the AR 15 rifle ready as we

proceeded at a high rate of speed to the hospital. –P.549 Into the Nightmare. Bang, Bang Bang. Hickey version of the shooting he was located in the follow up car.

 

It's noteworthy that Hickey reports two of the shots were bunched tightly

together. This observation, similar to other eyewitness or earwitness accounts,

is a further indication that all the shots could not have been fired from a single

weapon, as the Warren Report has it. And Hickey's comments that the second and

third shots "appeared to me completely different in sound than the first report and

were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element

between them" is a strong suggestion of coordinated crossfire. Other eyewitness

and photographic evidence indicates that there may have been two head shots fired

virtually simultaneously, but where the second would have been fired from remains

a mystery. With the first coming from Badge Man behind the retaining wall, the

second head shot may have come from behind the picket fence, or perhaps from

the Dal Tex Building behind the president's position and catercorner to the School

Book Depository at the end of Elm Street. An image of a man photographed in a

second-floor window of the Dal-Tex Building seems to show him holding some kind

of straight-lined object out the window. –P.549 Into the Nightmare. Good summation of crossfire.

 

As the motorcade approached in the middle lane of Elm, "I heard four shots; the first two sounded like they were behind the president with that shot from the knoll being different from the rest." When I asked what he meant by "different," he said it sounded, "I don't know, just different than the others, like it was a pistol or a different type of rifle or something."

"The third and fourth shots were very close together, almost at exactly the same second."

Holland said his eyes were focused directly on Kennedy when the "second, or possibly the third shot," caused the president's head to "suddenly lurch backward." At that moment, he said, his attention was immediately drawn to the left, straight to the far corner of the wooden fence on top of the knoll, from where he felt that shot, the "different" shot, had originated. "And I saw a puff of smoke come out from that corner and it didn't just hang there but it slowly drifted out under the trees and over the grassy area toward the street below."

The smoke, he added, traveled out about twenty feet from the fence and was located slightly behind a large tree on the knoll. Holland said he had been shown private and unpublished pictures that "confirm the presence of smoke coming from the knoll." He refused to discuss that tidbit further.

"How do you know it was smoke?" I questioned. I sensed the hawks drawing closer.

"I don't know what else it could have been. I've heard some people say that it was steam from a pipe that runs behind the fence. But there is no steam pipe back there. The only steam pipe is at the end of the underpass

there, which is far from the corner of the wooden fence where I saw the smoke.

"Me and some others ran around behind the fence and I made my way up to that corner, and when I got there, I saw footprints and cigarette

butts on the ground in the exact^e       [his emphasis] spot where I had seen the

smoke come from."

"Were the footprint_s and cigarettes fresh, do you think?"

"It had rained that morning," Holland said, "and those cigarette butts were all dry. I looked close at them. And there were quite a few of them there."

Holland said the footprints he saw were the only ones along the entire length of the fence. "It appeared as if whoever was behind there had been there for a while and was pacing back and forth like a caged animal. There was the same kind of mud on the bumper of the car parked there and it looked like someone had been standing on it to look over the fence."

"Let's say there was someone there," I said. "How could that person get away so quickly?"

"It would have been very easy to jump into the trunk of one of those parked cars and be driven away later," Holland speculated.'

At this point, I grabbed a piece of paper and drew an L shape to depict the fence. I asked Holland to put an Xwhere he had seen the smoke. The mark he drew was, he said, about ten feet back from the corner on the long part of the L. He had me draw a line representing the bumper where he saw the muddy footprints. He said that vehicle was the third car in from the corner and was a "Pontiac station wagon, sandy or light brown in color, with a luggage rack." A white Chevrolet sat on one side of the station wagon, he said, and the muddy footprints on the ground seemed to come from the corner of the fence and pass between those two cars on their way into the parking lot beyond.

Holland admitted he rarely granted interviews, because he had been misquoted so often. "It started with the Warren Commission, which misused what I had told them in their Report. Then I wasn't too pleased with the way Mark Lane handled my interview. And that program for CBS ["CBS News Inquiry: 'The Warren Report,"' broadcast in June 1967] was very biased, especially concerning the statements I made. They only used certain parts of what I said and that didn't provide the whole story."

I assured him of my care. I showed him my notes, which he carefully read. "Are you writing a book?" he asked.

"No. I took notes only for my own memory."

He laughed. "You're too young to worry about that."

As we wallced out of the hotel, I asked Holland if he would mind retracing his steps for me from the underpass to the knoll. He paused, then said he was very busy, but if I ever got to Dallas another time, I should give him a call. –P. 79 The Girl on the Stairs. S.M Holland recollection of the shooting.

 

Mrs. Walther explained to me she initially thought and thus told authorities that the man with the rifle was on the "fourth or fifth floor because I just wasn't sure which it was at the time." But she said she dearly remembers that this man was on the floor directly above where "two colored men were hanging out a window looking at the motorcade." Her reference most likely was to Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams, who were in fact watching from the fifth-floor window of the Depository. This would have put the man with the rifle on the sixth floor, in the window from where the Warren Report said the shots originated."

She described that man as having light hair and wearing a white shirt.

"Next to the man with a rifle and in the same window was another man. I could only see him from about his waist up to his shoulders and never got a good look at his face. But there was definitely another man there."

That second man was wearing "a brown suit coat." Could she have been looking at the brown cardboard boxes that were stacked in that window?

"That's what the FBI accused me of doing," she answered. "But boxes don't move on their own, do they?"

Her point was taken. "Did you report this to anyone, a nearby policeman, your friend?"

"No, I didn't say anything. I thought this man was a guard or something and that they had guards everywhere. And just after I saw these two, someone yelled, 'Here they come,' and the president turned the corner and I stopped looking at the two men."

Mrs. Walther said she "heard four shots, and right after the last shot I saw this police officer drop his motorcycle and immediately run into the Depository." This would have been Marrion Baker.

She described the sounds as having a definite pause between the first and second shots. Then the second and third shot sounded as if they were fired "at the same time." After that there was another slight pause, and then she heard a fourth shot.

She moved across Houston and looked down Elm in the direction of the motorcade. She saw two children lying on the grass on the knoll and, thinking they may be injured, walked that way .¹² –P. 82 The Girl on the Stairs. Mrs. Walther recollection of the shooting mentions last two shots were almost at the same time.

 

When I inquired about the shots, he repeated what he had said to the Commission: they sounded as if they came from above, behind, and to the left.

"Above, behind, and to the left of what?" I asked.

"Above and behind the motorcade, and to the left of me," Hudson replied.

"But on the day of the assassination, you signed an affidavit that said the shots seemed to come from above and behind you. You said, 'Behind and above me.' And in your FBI interview, you said you felt the shots came from over your head."

Hudson remained silent.

"You said you heard three shots," I continued. 'Would you tell me about them?"

"Well, there were definitely three that I heard," he explained. "But one of them was a bit unusual."

"What do you mean, `unusual'?"

"Well, it sounded different from the others. It was louder, sharper, cleaner than the others. And fwo of them was close together, like, bang ... bang, bang."

"Is that what you told the Commission lawyer?"

Hudson gave me a knowing smile. I'm sure he sensed by now that I already knew what he had told the Commission: that the three shots had been evenly spaced.²'

"I stand by what I just said," he replied.

"So, during your testimony you clarified your earlier statements to say you felt the shots were actually coming from above and behind the president's car. Does that mean from the Depository?"

"No, but that is what the Commission wanted me to say," Hudson answered quickly. –P.121 The Girl on the Stairs. Mentions Bang, Bang Bang bunching and different sound from other shots.

 

"I do think the government wanted people to get on with their lives and out of the drama of the assassination and they did what they wanted.

"And I don't believe my testimony was ignored. It was discounted, which is entirely different. And even in Sandra's deposition [to the FBI in March 1964, a copy of which I had sent her], I see there was nothing that suggests they really wanted to know the timing. I actually think the Warren Commission needed to bring an end to the investigation.

"It is hard to understand that Sandra and I were both young ladies and we weren't into political things. Instead we were into having fun, meeting young men and making a living. This was really scary for us. If you can put yourself into our shoes, we had high-powered people playing `who dun it' and we were wanting to make sure they knew we didn't or didn't have a connection of any kind to anyone who did. That was pretty heady stuff for young women in those days."

I specifically asked if she remembered seeing Kennedy when she heard the first shot. "No," she answered, "because I did not see the limousine at that time. It was under the tree." As she gazed out the window, she said, the tree was "slightly to my right."

I then inquired about the sequence of shots. "As I remember," she wrote, "there was the first shot and then a pause and then the last two seemed very close together."

Ms. Adams told me she occasionally visited the second-floor lunchroom when she worked at the Depository, the scene of the Oswald/ Baker/Truly encounter. She always got there, she said, by going down the back stairs.

Did she happen to notice any activity in or around that lunchroom when she passed by on November 22? –P.252 The Girl on the Stairs. Victoria Adams mentions that the Limo was under the Tree and that she heard the first shot a pause and then two shots.

 

 

 

[David Von Pein]

Gerry Down,

I've got a page on "The Spacing Of The Gunshots" on my website/blog in which I talk about the "Evenly Spaced" witnesses. It's not exactly definitive on the subject, but it might help you a little bit:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com / The Spacing Of The Gunshots Fired In Dealey Plaza

 

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

I'm currently doing a study on the spacing of the shots as heard by the eyewitness. I want to plot a chart of witnesses who said the shots were evenly spaced versus those you said there was a longer pause between shots one and two than between shots two and three which were described as being right on top of each other, so fast it would have been impossible to operate a bolt action to fire shots two and three so close together. 

Does anyone know where such a study has already been done so I can examine their data rather than doing it all from scratch myself?

I think Mark Tyler has already made a list -- dunn a study.

I have an excel of i think 441 witnesses -- i probly got it from Tyler's study -- talks about bang bang bangs.

Tyler needs to add Howard Whatley to his list -- a very good ear-witness.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

I'm currently doing a study on the spacing of the shots as heard by the eyewitness. I want to plot a chart of witnesses who said the shots were evenly spaced versus those you said there was a longer pause between shots one and two than between shots two and three which were described as being right on top of each other, so fast it would have been impossible to operate a bolt action to fire shots two and three so close together. 

Does anyone know where such a study has already been done so I can examine their data rather than doing it all from scratch myself?

Dont looz sight of the fact that there were 6 or 7 or 8 shots...... (nearly forgot -- plus 1 witness to a shot 4 minutes later)(makes it 7 or 8 or 9 shots).

Bang.....(6 sec).......Bang....(5 sec)......Bang.Bang.Bang.Bang.(possiblyBang).(possiblyBang)(4 or 5 or 6 @ 6.7 rps).................................. (240sec)....Bang.

 

However i suspect that that bang 4 minutes later was actually the rooftop trapdoor slamming shut due to a gust of wind while Baker & Truly were on the roof.

 

Plus supersonic bangs of the slug passing.

Plus the bangs of slug impacts.

Plus the echoes of bangs.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

2 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

I'm currently doing a study on the spacing of the shots as heard by the eyewitness. I want to plot a chart of witnesses who said the shots were evenly spaced versus those you said there was a longer pause between shots one and two than between shots two and three which were described as being right on top of each other, so fast it would have been impossible to operate a bolt action to fire shots two and three so close together. 

Does anyone know where such a study has already been done so I can examine their data rather than doing it all from scratch myself?

Mark Tyler has a handbook re this stuff.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=933;area=showposts;start=16

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

I have seen a plan showing who heard what where -- it might be in Tyler's handbook -- karnt remember.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[Vince Palamara]

3 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

I'm currently doing a study on the spacing of the shots as heard by the eyewitness. I want to plot a chart of witnesses who said the shots were evenly spaced versus those you said there was a longer pause between shots one and two than between shots two and three which were described as being right on top of each other, so fast it would have been impossible to operate a bolt action to fire shots two and three so close together. 

Does anyone know where such a study has already been done so I can examine their data rather than doing it all from scratch myself?

 

[Joe Bauer]

JFK Assassination Zapruder 18fps no interpolatation HD stabilized motion panorama - 50th anniversary

 

 

 

 

52K views9 years ago

 

antdavisonNZ

(best viewed in 1080pHD) ... in this clip, playback is 18 frames per second, substantially the same speed as the film was originally ...

 

Silencers were certainly in use for many years before 1963.

Yes, accuracy could be effected.

Kellerman was sure more than 3 bullets were fired.

He described the shots coming in as a "flurry."

The time it took JFK to be shot with the first shot and then with a second was certainly more that 2 seconds. More like 4?

Just watch the Zapruder film again. 

When hit with the first shot, JFK's body straightens up and his clenched into fists hands go up to his throat.

He looked like he was gasping for breath ( perhaps with blood filling his throat ) and he then glances over toward Jackie and he then turns his head back again.

Jackie sees JFK in distress. She reaches out to him. While doing so she even glances toward John Connolly seeing he is in distress too.

She then grabs JFK and starts pulling him toward her.

JFK is leaning close in toward Jackie at that point and then we see JFK's head explode.

The amount of time between the first shot and second is clearly about 4 seconds ( if not 5 ) at least in my view.

This would clearly match the shot time sequences so many ear witnesses described. 

"BANG" ... ( pause 3 to 5 seconds ) then "BANG" "BANG" again.

For those who say the third bang was an echo...how do they explain the first shot not creating an echo when it was supposedly fired from the same location as the 2nd and third shot?

Notice too how Nellie Connally throws herself onto her seat so animatedly when JFK's head is exploded, the huge bouquet of roses she had on her seat flew over her?

Edited December 12, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Pat Speer]

4 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

There a good number of those witnesses in Pat's chapter 9 :

https://www.patspeer.com/chapter9piecingittogether

Thanks, Jean Paul. There are actually such witnesses from chapters 5 though 8, comprising what was far and away the largest selection of witness statements. I believe Mark Tyler has built upon it, and maybe even added a few. But I spent hundreds of hours re-typing witness statements and transcribing interviews to make this material available... because it is incredibly obvious, when one looks at all the statements...that the last two shots (of the three recounted by most witnesses) were bunched together. 

Now, I must admit that in doing so I received a surprise. After writing up the first 150 or so witnesses I realized that the majority of the closest witnesses to the shooting--the bystanders just watching--said they heard a shot after the fatal head shot. The Warren Commission, to its credit, saw this as a possibility. But those pushing the Warren Commission's findings, starting with CBS in 1967, presented as a fact that the final shot was the head shot.

They were wrong. 

[Joe Bauer]

Just watched the Zapruder film video I posted above 20 times over.

It was supposedly shown in real time. Not slowed down nor speeded up.

Count the seconds between the micro-second JFK is hit behind the Stemmons Freeway sign and when he is hit in the head.

I count at least 4 seconds.

And I am always amazed with the actual JFK head shot.

The shooter had to have been an extremely expert marksman in the least.

JFK's head is an 8 inch to 10 inch wide and 6 to 7 inch high target.

It is 265 feet away from the shooter and constantly moving not just down and away at 11 MPH from the shooter but also sideways left, two to three feet from JFK's original sitting position.

The shooter obviously has to constantly adjust and move his gun and scope in those 4 seconds to match this target movement.

Then the JFK limo slows almost to a stop. The shooter must then adjust his gun site aim to do the same...then fire.

Anything but a bullseye hit could have easily hit Jackie as her own head and face was maybe just 5 to 6 inches away from her husbands? The shooter was willing to risk blowing Jackie away as well?

And this remarkable moving target bullseye shot is made with probably the cheapest and most inaccurate type rifle left over from WWII 20 years previous? 

Again, at nearly a football field length distance away?

Sorry, that bullseye scenario just doesn't work.

And why would a shooter take a third shot after his second shot successfully hits JFK in the head which he would have clearly seen?

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

Just watched the Zapruder film video I posted above 20 times over.

It was supposedly shown in real time. Not slowed down nor speeded up.

Count the seconds between the micro-second JFK is hit behind the Stemmons Freeway sign and when he is hit in the head.

I count at least 4 seconds.

And I am always amazed with the actual JFK head shot.

The shooter had to have been an extremely expert marksman in the least.

JFK's head is an 8 inch to 10 inch wide and 6 to 7 inch high target.

It is 265 feet away from the shooter and constantly moving not just down and away at 11 MPH from the shooter but also sideways left, two to three feet from JFK's original sitting position.

The shooter obviously has to constantly adjust and move his gun and scope in those 4 seconds to match this target movement.

Then the JFK limo slows almost to a stop. The shooter must then adjust his gun site aim to do the same...then fire.

Anything but a bullseye hit could have easily hit Jackie as her own head and face was maybe just 5 to 6 inches away from her husbands? The shooter was willing to risk blowing Jackie away as well?

And this remarkable moving target bullseye shot is made with probably the cheapest and most inaccurate type rifle left over from WWII 20 years previous? 

Again, at nearly a football field length distance away?

Sorry, that bullseye scenario just doesn't work.

And why would a shooter take a third shot after his second shot successfully hits JFK in the head which he would have clearly seen?

 

 

 

And why would a shooter take a third shot after his second shot successfully hits JFK in the head which he would have clearly seen?---JB

Well, easy, more than one gunman. The additional shot came in rapid succession from a gunman already in the act of shooting. Adrenaline pumping etc. 

I differ a bit from Pat Speer's excellent analysis.

I deduce JBC is shot ~Z295, when he is again in position to receive a shot in the back from the TSBD or Dal-Tex building (after having made a 180-degree turn in his seat to try and catch a glimpse of JFK). Another missile may have (in fact likely) struck the dorsal side of JBC's wrist. 

The shots "on top of each other" would describe a shot at Z295, or a little after, and then another shot at Z313. 

There could have been another subsequent shot, in very rapid succession. 

Sound travels at 1,125 feet per second. If there are truly three rapid gunshots from different locations in Dealey Plaza (after the first JFK back-neck shot), some witnesses might accurately hear three and others might hear two shots. That is, shots that would not actually fired simultaneously would be heard simultaneously, due to the speed of sound. 

Additionally, there could be the use of silencers, or even pneumatic guns.

On top of all that, witness statements are inherently iffy. 

That's my story and I am sticking with it. 

 

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

21 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

And why would a shooter take a third shot after his second shot successfully hits JFK in the head which he would have clearly seen?---JB

Well, easy, more than one gunman. The additional shot came in rapid succession from a gunman already in the act of shooting. Adrenaline pumping etc. 

I differ a bit from Pat Speer's excellent analysis.

I deduce JBC is shot ~Z295, when he is again in position to receive a shot in the back from the TSBD or Dal-Tex building (after having made a 180-degree turn in his seat to try and catch a glimpse of JFK). Another missile may have (in fact likely) struck the dorsal side of JBC's wrist. 

The shots "on top of each other" would describe a shot at Z295, or a little after, and then another shot at Z313. 

There could have been another subsequent shot, in very rapid succession. 

Sound travels at 1,125 feet per second. If there are truly three rapid gunshots from different locations in Dealey Plaza (after the first JFK back-neck shot), some witnesses might accurately hear three and others might hear two shots. That is, shots that would not actually fired simultaneously would be heard simultaneously, due to the speed of sound. 

Additionally, there could be the use of silencers, or even pneumatic guns.

On top of all that, witness statements are inherently iffy. 

That's my story and I am sticking with it. 

 

 

 

Sounds reasonable.

[Norman T. Field]

There are those who will tell you it was not three shots, but three volleys of shots triggered by commands transmitted by handheld radio. Each 'shooter' is actually a team composed of a spotter, a shooter and a radio operator - all in different locations. 

[Paul Cummings]

12 minutes ago, Norman T. Field said:

There are those who will tell you it was not three shots, but three volleys of shots triggered by commands transmitted by handheld radio. Each 'shooter' is actually a team composed of a spotter, a shooter and a radio operator - all in different locations. 

Agree. It was a professional hit.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Paul Cummings