Case Closed: 30 Years on-Even Worse

[James DiEugenio]

This links to the first part of Martin Hay's five part destruction of Posner's Case Closed.

This is probably the longest and most complete examination of that book in the literature.

It was never what it was titled to be, not for a minute.  But in some ways its even worse today.

The first two parts deal with Oswald and the last three on forensic and technical matters.

Thanks Martin.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/case-closed-30-years-on-even-worse

[Paul Cummings]

When this book first came out I bought it. I read the first three chapters and never picked it up again. For some reason still have it which means I really do need to do a spring cleaning.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Paul Cummings

[James DiEugenio]

Funny. 

😀 Read three chapters and never picked it up again.

As Martin proves now, its even worse so you were correct back then.

[Ron Bulman]

Test, after another forum post didn't.

[Ron Bulman]

Weird.  Posts on the did DJ leave the forum thread not showing up.

[James DiEugenio]

What do you mean Ron?

[David Von Pein]

9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

It [Gerald Posner's outstanding 1993 book "Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald And The Assassination Of JFK" ] was never what it was titled to be, not for a minute.  But in some ways its [sic; as always] even worse today.

As per usual, James DiEugenio has everything backwards. Because Gerald Posner's "Case Closed" is actually a very very good book. It's easily one of the Top 5 books ever written concerning the events of 11/22/63.

Kudos go out to Mr. Posner for his book's 30th birthday here in 2023. It's a publication that has held up extremely well during these last thirty years. (The constant gripes of conspiracy theorists notwithstanding, of course.)

DVP Book Review -- "Case Closed"

 

 

More Interviews.....

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Benjamin Cole]

16 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

As per usual, James DiEugenio of Los Angeles has everything backwards. Because Gerald Posner's "Case Closed" is actually a very very good book.  It's easily one of the Top 5 books ever written concerning the events of 11/22/63.

Kudos go out to Mr. Posner for his book's 30th birthday here in 2023. It's a publication that has held up extremely well during these last thirty years. (The constant gripes of CTers notwithstanding, of course.)

DVP Book Review -- "Case Closed"

 

 

As I recall, Posner posited modern ammo and guns do not smoke. Ergo, there could have been no gunsmoke in Dealey Plaza that day, near the GK. 

But why did people smell gunsmoke? Well, said Posner, they may have smelled smoke from LHO's gun (which was 50 yards downwind). 

It take skill to be so wrong.

1. Modern guns do smoke, depending on ammo and other factors, such as if the barrel has recently been lubed. A snub-nose will smoke more than a long barrel and so on.  Cheap ammo, to this day, is noted for smoking. There are even ammos intended to smoke, such as for stage plays.  Hand packed ammo for .38s was common in the 1960s, and could smoke depending on powder used. 

2. OK, guns don't smoke but people smelled smoke from LHO's rifle, 50 yards downwind.  

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[David Von Pein]

48 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

But why did people smell gunsmoke? Well, said Posner, they may have smelled smoke from LHO's gun (which was 50 [yards] downwind). 

Here are some comments I made while talking to some conspiracy theorists at Amazon.com in 2016 (when the Amazon forums were still alive and well). I think these remarks still apply today:

-----------------------

"Tell me why the smell of Oswald's gunpowder couldn't have drifted down to street level after just a few seconds? Any reason why conspiracy theorists totally disregard that possibility altogether?

Dealey Plaza is a very small place. I can easily envision Oswald's gun producing odors that would be noticeable within the entire Plaza a few seconds after the shots were fired from the sixth floor. Has such a thing ever been disproved? I think not.

I think some witnesses did smell gunpowder. But a gun was being fired in the small Plaza that day. So, in my opinion, the gunpowder they smelled was from the ONE GUN that was KNOWN to have been fired that day---i.e., Oswald's Carcano from the sixth floor. I see nothing so impossible about people smelling OSWALD'S gunpowder. And [Ralph] Yarborough was certainly not ON THE GRASSY KNOLL when he smelled the gunpowder. He was in a car in the middle of Elm Street.

Also -- Tom Dillard said he smelled the odor of gunpowder while he was right "at the corner" of Elm and Houston Streets during the time the assassination was occurring or very shortly after the shots were fired." -- DVP; March 2016

Edited May 12, 2023 by David Von Pein

[George Govus]

7 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

for some reason still have it which means I really do need to do a spring cleaning.

Paul, you are on the horns of a dilemma. Yes, you can pitch Case Closed in the trash, which adds to the trashing of the planet. I guess you could detach the pages from the binding and treat it as paper recycling. Or you can give it away, to a library or something, where it can mislead some unsuspecting future reader. I face this dilemma with Philip Shenon's A Cruel And Shocking Act. My only consolation is I bought it as a remaindered book. So far, it remains on my bookshelf, albeit I turned the dust jacket inside out, so it's simply a big white hardback which doesn't catch my eye when I go past.

[Joe Bauer]

With massive resources and efforts we could never get Castro?

Yet, lowest minimum wage book sorter Lee Harvey Oswald ( all by his angry little self ) defeats an army of JFK security and takes out JFK and almost JC using the cheapest rifle from a perch which happens to be a perfect one due to the planning of JFK motorcade route with two 90 degree turns right below him, no one watching open higher floor windows and an entire building floor available and vacated to set up his perch without notice?

In a building full of workers?

Then after pulling off the crime of the century he just hustles down some stairs ( stops to buy and drink a Dr. Pepper in the building lunch room ) then saunters out to get a bus and taxi... and...well Gerald Posner has it all figured out.

Just dumb, innocent luck.

Jack Ruby's preposterous access into the DPD basement during the highest security alert time in their history ( by a factor of 10X? ) to take out the most important criminal suspect in American history while he is handcuffed to two side guarding officers ... same thing.

Case Closed.

And just dismiss LBJ's interview comments to Walter Cronkite where LBJ himself says he " can't be totally sure of Oswald's motives...or others who could have been involved."

1:29NOW PLAYING

 

 

LBJ Speaks on a conspiracy in JFK Murder

 

 

 

 

91K views13 years ago

 

montycombs

In September 1969, Walter Cronkite conducted an interview with former President, Lyndon B. Johnson. Cronkite asked

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Here are some comments I made while talking to some conspiracy theorists at Amazon.com in 2016 (when the Amazon forums were still alive and well). I think these remarks still apply today:

-----------------------

"Tell me why the smell of Oswald's gunpowder couldn't have drifted down to street level after just a few seconds? Any reason why conspiracy theorists totally disregard that possibility altogether?

Dealey Plaza is a very small place. I can easily envision Oswald's gun producing odors that would be noticeable within the entire Plaza a few seconds after the shots were fired from the sixth floor. Has such a thing ever been disproved? I think not.

I think some witnesses did smell gunpowder. But a gun was being fired in the small Plaza that day. So, in my opinion, the gunpowder they smelled was from the ONE GUN that was KNOWN to have been fired that day---i.e., Oswald's Carcano from the sixth floor. I see nothing so impossible about people smelling OSWALD'S gunpowder. And [Ralph] Yarborough was certainly not ON THE GRASSY KNOLL when he smelled the gunpowder. He was in a car in the middle of Elm Street.

Also -- Tom Dillard said he smelled the odor of gunpowder while he was right "at the corner" of Elm and Houston Streets during the time the assassination was occurring or very shortly after the shots were fired." -- DVP; March 2016

DVP-

You realize the wind was blowing from the Triple Overpass-GK area towards the TSBD? 

We know that from woman's skirts etc, which show a breeze. 

But dozens and dozens of people smelled the distinctive odor of gunsmoke in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA in the GK area, including vets and police officers. 

LHO was six floors up (or somebody firing a rifle). 

I rather suspect somebody in the GK area, rather than a guy downwind and six floors up. Just play the odds. 

 

[Joe Bauer]

No one can logically dismiss the reality that half a dozen, salt-of-the-Earth railroad workers on the railroad overpass looking right at the GK up to it's higher ground all said the exact same thing.

They saw a "puff of smoke" drift out from the trees above the grassy area just as the shots rang out.

A puff of smoke no cigarette smoker could have exhaled. Way too large and thick in it's make up.

This multi-witness observation reality will always be there in the official record.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

No one can logically dismiss the reality that half a dozen, salt-of-the-Earth railroad workers on the railroad overpass looking right at the GK up to it's higher ground all said the exact same thing.

They saw a "puff of smoke" drift out from the trees above the grassy area just as the shots rang out.

A puff of smoke no cigarette smoker could have exhaled. Way too large and thick in it's make up.

This multi-witness observation reality will always be there in the official record.

 

JB-

My guess is the GK smoke-and-bang show was an intentional diversion. 

While LN'ers are wrong that guns never emit smoke, modern guns (generally) emit less smoke. 

But a snub-nose .38, with shells hand-packed with "black powder" a type of propellent that give off a lot of smoke, would deliver a lot of smoke, smell and noise. 

Hand-packing .38's shells was common in the 1960s. 

Snub-nose .38s were the default 1960s weapon of choice for concealed and carry. 

The odds are pretty small that dozens and dozens of people immediately smelled gunsmoke after the JFKA from a rifle fired six floors up and downwind. Even a hound dog would be challenged at that one. 

[Andrew Prutsok]

8 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

With massive resources and efforts we could never get Castro?

Yet, lowest minimum wage book sorter Lee Harvey Oswald ( all by angry little self ) defeats an army of JFK security and takes out JFK and almost JC using the cheapest rifle from a perch which happens to be a perfect one due to the planning of JFK motorcade route with two 90 degree turns right below him, no one watching open high floor windows and an entire building floor available and vacated to set up his perch without notice?

In a building full of workers?

Then after pulling off the crime of the century he just hustles down some stairs ( stops to buy and drink a Dr. Pepper in the building lunch room ) then saunters out to get a bus and taxi... and...well Gerald Posner has it all figured out.

Just dumb, innocent luck.

Jack Ruby's preposterous access into the DPD basement during the highest security alert time in their history ( by a factor of 10X? ) to take out the most important criminal suspect in American history while he is handcuffed to two side guarding officers ... same thing.

Case Closed.

And just dismiss LBJ's interview comments to Walter Cronkite where LBJ himself says he " can't be totally sure of Oswald's motives...or others who could have been involved."

1:29NOW PLAYING

 

 

LBJ Speaks on a conspiracy in JFK Murder

 

 

 

 

91K views13 years ago

 

montycombs

In September 1969, Walter Cronkite conducted an interview with former President, Lyndon B. Johnson. Cronkite asked

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oswald's feat was unmatched for 38 years, until 19 hijackers who had had a few flying lessons, out-smarted and out-maneuvered the entire US Air Defense System for several hours.